Guest guest Posted June 8, 2009 Report Share Posted June 8, 2009 > > > Hi Will: > > > > Correct on the new international regs that it's not a " product " . > > > > One thing about storage, and if Salaam is reading this, I'd like to > > hear > > from him: some say store the chunks in cloth like burlap and in a > > wooden > > box so it can breathe. Others say in an airtight jar. I've done both, > > and I like the jar better. Right now I have some in a box for over a > > year and it just gives off too much scent. I haven't had airtight ones > > rot or anything in the past, but it sure keeps the scent molecules in, > > and I don't like having them diffusing out so much in my office. I > > forget the book I read about the airtight jar, but I'll find it for > > the > > podcast. > > -- > > Sincerely, Anya > > Hi Anya, > > My take on the storage issue follows. And it would be good to hear > more from Salaam if he is available... > > If the ambergris has not completed its air curing/aging process after > being found on the beach or in the ocean then it has to be stored in a > breathable container or even out in the open air. For storing we would > wrap it in muslin cloth and put that in a cardboard box. Burlap and > wood box could work too - as long as it can breathe. But burlap has > its own peculiar aroma, so I personally would use cotton or hemp > rather than burlap. > > The ambergris has accumulated sea water over the years of being in the > ocean, and it needs to lose that moisture. And if it has a fishy or > seaweed-like aroma it needs to downgrade that to a more subtle marine > note. In a closed container it will sweat and the moisture will not be > able to escape. The moisture needs to escape and this process of air > curing will help the aroma. Keeping the ambergris that still has too > much of its own accumulated moisture in a glass container will would > be the wrong thing to do. > > However, after it has lost most of its accumulated moisture content - > then it will likely be fine to store it in closed glass containers. It > may even be beneficial... Salaam may be able to say. We kept our beach- > found raw ambergris wrapped in cotton and in a cardboard box for 2 1/2 > years and I feel that it has significantly improved in aroma. It lost > some of its marine and tobacco notes and gained more sweetness. I am > sure that there are more specific ways to cure the raw ambergris so > that it improves in aroma over time that an ambergris specialist could > tell about, - if they were willing to. But, this kind of knowledge is > often kept close and not shared with the public or with competitors. > These are family and trade secrets. > > It should be noted to not store the raw ambergris (that is in a > breathable container or out in the open) in a room with other > aromatics. The ambergris can " pick up " those aromas and damage its own > aroma. > > Good luck with your podcast. Where will be able to hear it? > > Will > Eden Botanicals > Pure Essential Oils, Absolutes and CO2 Extracts Everything that Will has stated is correct and I have nothing to add to it. It looks like he has become a specialist. To answer Anya, I keep the fully dry Ambergris in closed recipients, but I do not bother to have them airtight. Salaam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 31, 2009 Report Share Posted October 31, 2009 Jeanne Rose wrote: > I purchased a bit of Ambergris from someone recently and then had a prestigious laboratory test it. The lab took 3 months to test it because there are so few real ambergris samples that actually have a GC/MS attached. There was no Ambrein in my sample and was probably just camel scat. Has anyone ever actually had their 'ambergris' tested? I think we all just might be buying exotic excrement. > > Jeanne Rose > Essential Oil Kits & Books âEUR¢ Natural Perfumery Education - > âEUR¢ http://www.JeanneRose.net > âEUR¢ http://www.CopperStills.com > > Hi Jeanne: I wonder if the qualified noses of the French perfume houses, and several experts I know from around the world GCMS ambergris. They rely on their experience, their eyes and nose as far as I know. As I posted before, many Ebay sellers, particularly those from Singapore are selling bunk goods, so I always advise others (not sure where you got yours, I doubt it was from them) to avoid purchasing from them. Ambergris can vary from chunk to chunk depending upon what the whale ate. No expert would with or without a GCMS call a chunk ambergris if the texture and most importantly, the scent differed from the typical ambergris scent. I have about five types of ambergris tinctures made by an expert in my possesion, gold, white, red, etc., and they all have a commonality. What does your nose tell you about the sample? From an abstract, showing that ambrine was not detected but - and very important, I believe - degredation products were: This is a report of the detection of 13-ethoxy-8//,13-epoxy-14,15,16-trinorlabdane (*1*) and 12-ethoxy-8//,12-epoxy-13,14,15,16-tetranorlabdane (*2*), hitherto unidentified and considered as degradation products of ambrein, among 31 constituents found by analysis of ambergris tincture. Copyright © 2004 Wiley & Sons, Ltd. Were any of the above mentioned elements shown in your GCMS? All my best, Anya http://AnyasGarden.com http://NaturalPerfumers.com Anya's Garden on FB http://bit.ly/iamja Guild on FB http://bit.ly/1jP5lB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 31, 2009 Report Share Posted October 31, 2009 BRAVO Jeanne Rose BRAVO! No one is going to pull the wool over your eyes!!! I suspect that you are absolutely right! Please advise us where you purchased your " Ambergris. " And what lab did you take your sample to. Who would have ever thought of camel scat? Probably some location where camels are native.... I'm guessing. UNBELIEVABLE CON ARTISTS! As usual, Buyer Beware. dD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 31, 2009 Report Share Posted October 31, 2009 Thanks for weighing in Anya. The descriptions are immensely valuable for helping me to learn the perfumer's vernacular as well as assisting me to understand the scent components. I do want to clarify in trying to describe my ambergris that, in no way is it over-powering. It has a very delicate and layered scent. The animal scent is the faintest part of it's make-up and without this element, I feel my ambergris would be lacking. But then, my perfumery olfactory accuity is young and still learning. It will be very interesting for me to follow how this bottle develops and ages. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 1, 2009 Report Share Posted November 1, 2009 From Arctander: Its odor is rather subtle, reminiscent of seaweed, wood, moss, with a peculiar sweet, yet very dry undertone of unequaled tenacity. There is rarely any animal note at all in a good grade of Ambra. Ambra has comparatively little diffusive power, but it has a tremendous tenacity. All my best, Anya Someone posted a comment awhile back, here on NP, about getting some Ambergris on their sleeve or something and being able to still smell it a week later. If this isn't tenacious, I don't know what is! This is what led me to believe that using it as an ingredient in perfume would contribute to the longevity of that particular scent; along with whatever other qualities it would impart, and ultimately be all that was left of the scent at some point - if this is true. Sonsa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 1, 2009 Report Share Posted November 1, 2009 <I have about five types of ambergris tinctures made by an expert in my possesion, gold, white, red, etc., and they all have a commonality. What does your nose tell you about the sample?> I wonder, Anya, how do the different types vary in scent? Recent Activity 5 New Members 2 New PhotosVisit Your Group Need traffic? Drive customers With search ads on Yahoo! Sell Online Start selling with our award-winning e-commerce tools. Celebrity Parents Spotlight on Kids Hollywood families share stories .. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 4, 2009 Report Share Posted November 4, 2009 I've just discovered that another source is Enfleurage in New York. Although they mention that the stuff they have is raw and fecal smelling and dark. I wonder would this cause one to worry if it was a whaling byproduct and not a beach find? Appreciate any input. Thanks, Zee Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 4, 2009 Report Share Posted November 4, 2009 > would this cause one to worry if it was a whaling byproduct and not > a beach find? No ambergris is a whaling by product. They used to hunt sperm whales for the spermaceti, never for ambergris. For ambergris to be of any use to perfumers, it _must_ float at open sea for years. That's why ambergris is perfectly legal internationally: it is not a sperm whale product per se. It's the floating at sea that produces usable ambergris. If not aged and cured through sea time, ambergris is just intestinal sludge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 4, 2009 Report Share Posted November 4, 2009 I would never use dark, fecal smelling ambergris. It's not perfumery grade at all. All my best, Anya http://AnyasGarden.com http://NaturalPerfumers.com Anya's Garden on FB http://bit.ly/iamja Guild on FB http://bit.ly/1jP5lB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 4, 2009 Report Share Posted November 4, 2009 I would never use dark, fecal smelling ambergris. It's not perfumery grade at all. This makes me realize how lucky I am in the original ambergris purchase I made from Eden a couple of years ago when they still had some.� The quality is fabulous - grayish-yellowish and although there is still the smell of barnyard, it's more hay-ey, or perhaps, prosaically put, like the hay from the stalls of the four horses of Apollo, or something akin to that, because there is definitely a�divine character to the smell of that little gray lump! Alfred musing on ambergris and the beauty of haunting perfumes, at his desk overlooking the Pacific... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 4, 2009 Report Share Posted November 4, 2009 A friend from a French fragrance house told me that historically the French preferred ambergris that had come out of the back of the whale and the English stuff that had been coughed up. It could also be removed from the ambergris from this source was worth much less than that which had bobbed about in the ocean but it was still valuable. Musk grains and civet absolutely stink until they are diluted enough to become pleasant. Remember indolic flowers contain indole - a chemical that is also found in human poo. Fresh ambergris needs diluting, ageing and using in very small amounts. I have a small piece of ambergris which is grey, very old, delicate, soft and beautiful. Bed time for me. Hope I'm forgiven for writing poo just before saying my prayers. Best Wishes, Alec Alec Lawless Essentially Me +44(0)1453 882525 www.essentially-me.co.uk http://aleclawless.blogspot.com/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 7, 2009 Report Share Posted November 7, 2009 >. For ambergris to be of any > use to perfumers, it _must_ float at open sea for years. That's why > ambergris is perfectly legal internationally: it is not a sperm whale > product per se. It's the floating at sea that produces usable > ambergris. If not aged and cured through sea time, ambergris is just > intestinal sludge. > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 7, 2009 Report Share Posted November 7, 2009 For those who claim all ambergris is beach harvested, I fear you are in denial. Check out Poucher's monograph on ambergris. In my edition on pp. 26-29 presents am overview that is less speculative. I am looking at the fifth edition. " Apart from a few exceptions, the big 'finds' are all the product of whaling stations where the sperm whale is caught and cut up. " Poucher states that the best qualities are ocean washed, but that quality varies as a function of how the ambergris forms in the whale as well. Upper GI tract or bowels? Any blood or poo mixed in? This may be as much a factor of white vs. black as anything, and there is a clear photo of pale colored, rounded lumps that were whale harvested. Sorry if this complicates the ethical considerations. Wouldn't it be nice if the fantasy of all beach washed ambergris were true! If anyone can back this claim up with more than hearsay, I seriously want to know - it would be great if things have changed 180 degrees since this book was published. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 7, 2009 Report Share Posted November 7, 2009 Marco wrote: > > How sure are you? 100%? Poucher's 5th edition has images of a collection of ambergris collected from the GI tract of a hunted whale, no mention of its being worthless or garbage. I suspect it is more complex than what either extreme states. I doubt it is mostly the product of brutality, and I doubt it is all miaculously found washed up on. beaches. I'll bet there's gross stuff in the ocean and decent stuff in whales, but I will have to double check. How about that scene from Moby Dick where ambergris is harvest with great joy from the carcass of a recently deceased whale? Did Melville just make this up, or did he know a little bit more about whaling than what can be learned today from the web and ambergris merchants? > Very good point Marco...... That's where I first heard of it...... -- W. Bourbonais L'Hermite Aromatique A.J.P. (GIA) http://www.facebook.com/Le.Hermite Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 25, 2009 Report Share Posted November 25, 2009 De: S. Rae Someone posted a comment awhile back, here on NP, about getting some Ambergris on their sleeve or something and being able to still smell it a week later. If this isn't tenacious, I don't know what is! This is what led me to believe that using it as an ingredient in perfume would contribute to the longevity of that particular scent; along with whatever other qualities it would impart, and ultimately be all that was left of the scent at some point - if this is true. Sonsa Hi all, Arctander recommends the 3% Ambra in the section on tinctures but I understand some people prefer the 1% Ambra. I have both 1% and 3% and wonder what other people use each dilution for, and if you have any preferences... thanks Paloma Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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