Cranial Sacral Therapy

[Guest guest]

,

Its a type of body work (non-invasive) in which the therapist focuses on the

fluid which can best be felt on the cranium (skull) and the sacrum (the roughly

triangular boney area at the base of the spine. Often the fluid doesn't flow

freely for whatever reason and the therapist can help unblock it. Others on the

list can probably provide a more detailed, scientific explanation.

S

--------------------------------------------------------------

We are about to start chelation. Could someone explain how cranial-sacral

therapy works and ho it helps with chelation. Also, how do you get a 4 year old

to do it?

karen

***

[This message has been truncated.]

[Guest guest]

Funny, when we went through Sacreal Craneal, the DO said at some points he didn't even have to touch the head, the body could "feel"his hands presence...I didn't know they were actually moving fluid! This guy seemed sweet, but my husband didn't buy in to him...if nothing else, it helped my son to get an "easier" hair cut!-Shari

Re: [ ] Cranial sacral therapy

,Its a type of body work (non-invasive) in which the therapist focuses on the fluid which can best be felt on the cranium (skull) and the sacrum (the roughly triangular boney area at the base of the spine. Often the fluid doesn't flow freely for whatever reason and the therapist can help unblock it. Others on the list can probably provide a more detailed, scientific explanation. S--------------------------------------------------------------We are about to start chelation. Could someone explain how cranial-sacral therapy works and ho it helps with chelation. Also, how do you get a 4 year old to do it?karen***[This message has been truncated.]

[Guest guest]

A good therapist can do cranial-sacral on a child. Unlike most types

of medical procedures, this one actually feels goood.

Andy

> Also, how do you get a 4 year old to do it?

> karen

>

[Guest guest]

Some kids have to build up their tolerance for it or at least to stay on the

table long enough to benefit from it. Once they start to receive the

treatments though, they tend to want them more. There are various kinds of

CST and some require longer still periods to accomplish than others. The one

we started with, Orthobionomy, could be done in very short segments and was

very calming so it helped him get used to the treatments better.

You do need to be careful about who you choose to do CST on your child.

Check their training and references carefully. While most kids really

benefit from it, I have heard of a few cases where the wrong therapist caused

problems for the child.

Gaylen

[Guest guest]

Hi 's mom,

We just started this. My son has had two sessions. Too early to tell what, if

anything, is happening, but I can tell you he has immediately crashed out in the

car on the drive home.........he seemed so relaxed.....hmmm, wonder if that's a

coincidence or a result/benefit from CST? Like with any other

therapies/interventions we have tried, I'm keeping an open mind, but this (CST)

like Kinesiology still has an element of hocus pocus to me.....but that's OK, if

hocus pocus works and does no harm, I'm going to continue.

Would you mind sharing what positive results you are seeing? And, are you

chelating at the same time?

Thanks,

Elsie in TX

[ ] cranial sacral therapy

Hi,

I was wondering if anyone out there is using cranial sacral therapy?

We have been taking for the last few months and have been seeing some

really positive result?

's mom

[Guest guest]

Hi Elsie,

We are seeing positive results from the cranial sacral therapy. It is hard

to always put your finger on the improvement except to say that she is really

" on " and her vocabulary is soaring!!! She tells us all about how she feels,

I am frustrated, I am confused, I am sad, I am really happy, etc. Her social

skills are climbing too. One thing that was noticable is her motor skills

really shot forward. She has a three wheeler that she loves to ride, but we

have always had to walk beside her and help steer. She just couldn't get how

to steer no matter how we tried!!! She went out one day, the day ofter a

session and just drove and steered her little heart out!

We are chealating. She started with DMSA alone in July and in Sept. we went

to phase two and added ala. She broke out in an awful skin rash that lasted

months with terrible open lesions. She didn't get more of those sores after

the first awful outbreak, they just took months to heal. Then a few months

ago she started breaking out in a rash all over her face and body that looks

she was splattered with hot grease. Bright red spots. Her eyes get a red

puffy scaly thing going on around the rims. We are chealating this weekend

with ALA alone. She seems to do o.k. with that. Andy says that chealating

with ala alone will get the mercury and other metals out. My doc says no,

but it's been months now and I can't get any answers on what to do instead.

I have great respect for our doctor, but sometimes you get lost in the

shuffle, there are just soo many kids she is treating. I can't waste any

more time though. Sometimes you have to go with what you think is right.

is pretty much a typical little girl now. She has age appropriate

language, her social skills are mildly delayed and her fine motor also mildly

delayed. We are at the place now where we can breath again because we know

that she will be o.k.

Good luck with the cranial sacral! It does seem a little hocus pocus but

whatever works. Nothing but " alternative therapies " has worked so far!!!

has actually fallen asleep during two of the sessions and slept on

the table for 45 minutes afterward. This from a very active little girl who

doesn't take naps!!!

Jane ('s mom)

[Guest guest]

Curty has seen three different types of cranial sacral therapists all with

varying yet positive responses.

Gaylen

[Guest guest]

We have just started cranial-sacral therapy as well. Haven't yet seen a real

difference but it is too early to tell. Because CST requires that the patient

lie very still, we've had the therapist come to our house after our son (who is

3 YO) has gone to sleep for the evening. The therapist can do her best work

while he is sleeping - FYI...

God Bless!

S. Hooker, Ph.D., P.E.

Director of Research

PhytaGenics

902 Battelle Blvd., MSIN K2-10

Richland, WA 99352

Phone: 509-375-4420

FAX: 509-372-4660

email: brian.hooker@...

[ ] Cranial Sacral Therapy

Hi,

I know that many have mentioned having done this therapy, and many

have had good results. I have an appointment on Monday with an

experienced therapist, to begin CST on my son. I would appreciate

others sharing thier experiences with me and the positive results

that have been seen. And feel free to give me any negitive

experiences also, just so I will understand alittle more. If you

would like to e-mail privately that would be wonderful.I would love

to hear what I might expect to see with my son. Thanks so much, Leah

=======================================================

[Guest guest]

---MOria or anyone another question,

when my son was an infant my husband and I noticed to our horror that

his scull was flattened on one side, he was not born this way and we

were panicked aabout it. Our pediatrition chuckled at us for being so

worried and told us it was due to sleeping on one side too long. My

son did like to sleep on that side more than the other. Now due to

SIDS they make the babies sleep on their sides. He told us to place

him on the other side to sleep and that this would rectify itself over

time. It did even out the

shape of his head and he seemed fine and I have not thought about it

since then. Is it possible that this has possibly effected the way my

son detoxed? Do you think this had anything to do with my son

absorbing metals and not detoxing them? Is it possible that cranial

sacral therapy would help him in some way?

Thanks for any input, Patti

In @y..., " moriamerri " <moriam@e...> wrote:

>

> > WOuld someone explaine what this is and what it is used for? I did a

> > search on the web to try and learn more but only got hits for places

> > advertising that they provide this service. Thanks a lot!

> > Patti

[Guest guest]

> ---MOria or anyone another question,

> when my son was an infant my husband and I noticed to our horror

that

> his scull was flattened on one side, he was not born this way and we

> were panicked aabout it. Our pediatrition chuckled at us for being

so

> worried and told us it was due to sleeping on one side too long. My

> son did like to sleep on that side more than the other. Now due to

> SIDS they make the babies sleep on their sides. He told us to place

> him on the other side to sleep and that this would rectify itself

over

> time. It did even out the

> shape of his head and he seemed fine and I have not thought about it

> since then. Is it possible that this has possibly effected the way

my

> son detoxed? Do you think this had anything to do with my son

> absorbing metals and not detoxing them? Is it possible that cranial

> sacral therapy would help him in some way?

> Thanks for any input, Patti

Hi Patti, I've heard of this " flat on one side " thing before

Actually, I have no idea if this could still be an issue or could

cause problems. In fact, the kinds of problems that cranial

manipulation can help with MIGHT NOT be at all apparent in terms

of what the head looks like. You need someone experienced to

feel his head and tell you if it is has problems. How to know

who is competent and experienced with this-- that I do NOT know.

And I suspect it matters, since this is a hands-on thing, and

since it seems pretty subtle to me. If you would like me to

ask the osteopath I see for a referral, write me privately with

your location and I'd be glad to.

The other issue you alluded to: whether having shape and

alignment problems could be related to having metals problems:

I do not know, but I have definatly wondered about this.

As to whether it could help your son, I think it could help

many kids/adults--- but it is an individual thing-- depends

on whether (or to what degree) he has the problems it addresses.

Which is why you would have him checked out. I've read some

pretty good cranial-sacral improvement stories on this list---

don't know if those parents are still here.....

best wishes,

Moria

[Guest guest]

Hi Traci,

I take my son Will who has mycolonic seizures, low muscle tone and global

developmental & gross motor delays.

What I have found with CST, now when he moves his moves are constructive

moves not just moves that will get him no where. I think CST can help many

children for many different reason. It is very expensive and I think it is

worth it. Besides it is a tax deduction at year end.

Take Care

Lori

[Guest guest]

I am considering taking Kennedy to a DO that does cranial sacral

therapy. It will cost quite a bit, so I was wondering if anyone here

does it and why did you do it and what results have you seen?

Traci:

I started my son with cranial sacral therapy about a year ago now. Evan is 21

mths now with global delays and formerly a g-tube. We had very positive results

with him once we got through the first few sessions. Evan had a very difficult

birth and she felt he was working through that experience--is that so, I don't

really know, however, I can say that a certain peace or calm came over him that

I'd never seen before after these crying spirts that took place while we were

there. At apt. number 3 we saw a change in Evan, he was able to sit on his own

for several minutes rather than seconds and his oral feeding ability increased

greatly. We went to the apts. 1x/wk for about the first month and then moved it

to every 2 wks. At the end of January we were able to have Evan's feeding tube

removed. Now, mind you we did do speech therapy and I worked my tail off

getting him to feed. I did not tell his therapist in the beginning that I was

trying this because I thought they would think I was nuts. After about three

weeks, his PT said are you doing anything different because Evan's strength has

improved. I had to tell her then. She said that was great and when she did PT

at a facility in Miami, they had the children there go once a month for CS and

they saw positive results. She said she thought it was hokus-pokus until she

tried it herself. Her words to me were, " it's powerful stuff. "

I'm not sure this experience helps you, but I always figure, if it doesn't hurt

my little guy, what do I have to lose. Oh, one last thing, our cranial sacral

therapist said make sure you get a good one with certifications and experience

because there are those out there that are not good or qualified. My therapist

trained at the Upledger Institute so I felt confident and came highly

recommended by a dr that headed up the childrens ward at the hospital. You

might check out the Upledger web-site for referrals and watch the video of the

treatment on the baby.

Best wishes,

Lynn

[Guest guest]

Lori -since you brought this up...

After speaking to them I've been asked to write a proposal for Dr.

Upledger http://www.upledger.com/home.htm about how working

with our population of communication impaired children may be

mutually beneficial.

In addition to what you just stated -I know a few other people in

our group who also shared good things about the cranial sacral

therapy which is why I took my two boys -and I too believe it's

beneficial based on what I saw. If it's not good for them -my boys

love it and ask for it -so if nothing else they enjoy it -but there

have been positive changes too -which is a plus.

I plan to also discuss in the letter the possibilities of

therapeutic listening aspects of dolphin sounds from when the

dolphin is with a specific child in the water -and to see if there

are any at all positive changes even outside the water using skull

caps to measure brain waves etc. If it does appear promising -that

would bring this type of therapy perhaps to more of our children.

(even though I can't imagine anywhere near as much fun as actually

being in the water with Flipper)

If anyone else has anything to share about cranial sacral therapy.

therapeutic listening therapy, or even dolphin therapy -as usual

either good or bad -then please do. And please let me know if I can

quote you to Dr. Upledger.

BTW in regards to cranial sacral therapy I heard the twins are doing

really great but they still don't know how to separate them and are

still deciding the best way -they are back home again.

=====

[Guest guest]

,

That is great news. I would love be close to a place that does Dolphin

Therapy but living in MA well I guess we don't stand a chance of that.

If you don't minds I would love to read your article.

Thanks again for all you help

Take Care

Lori

[Guest guest]

I have a question--Is this really helpful? I want to have an open mind,

especially since Andy once recommended it in one of his posts, but I had

three different practitioners for my daughter and it all seemed like

astrology or worse. I paid big bucks to try it and I heard all kinds of

stuff, but in the end I saw no results. One practitioner was coming in from

Colorado and was praised by all the others. He, too, seemed to be way weird.

One person told me she could SEE into my daughter's body and then told me

what she saw. I thought that her basic knowledge of anatomy was lacking.

She saw things in the wrong place.

Can anyone tell me if their child was actually helped? Also, all the

so-called science these practioners pointed me to was disappointing. I

really read all I could, but I could never find the science in it. In the

end, I think it was only expensive massage therapy.

I will do ANYTHING for my daughter, so I really want to know if this therapy

will help her.

in Salt Lake City

[Guest guest]

http://www.iahp.com/pages/search/

> I'm looking for a good cranial sacral therapist who has worked with

> children (preferably autistic) in the Cleveland area. Anyone know

a

> resource to fine one? Thanks

[Guest guest]

> I have a question--Is this really helpful?

It depends on whether your child has a cranial problem or not. If

not, it doesn't do much. If so it is very helpful. In uncommon cases

profoundly so, or even curative.

>I want to have an open mind,

> especially since Andy once recommended it in one of his posts, but I

had

> three different practitioners for my daughter and it all seemed like

> astrology or worse.

The issue is to find good competent practitioners who can give you an

honest opinion as to what shape she is in and how much she will

benefit from this. Unfortunately as with all things under the

bureacuratic control of licensing boards, competence is almost

excluded from the pool of available practitioners.

>I paid big bucks to try it and I heard all kinds of

> stuff, but in the end I saw no results. One practitioner was coming

in from

> Colorado and was praised by all the others. He, too, seemed to be

way weird.

If they are way wierd, skip them. Cranial therapy is simply a form of

manual medicine that people learn in medical school (not MD schools -

other kinds) or continuing education courses. Regular doctors

generally are able to put on a proper " public face " for patient

contact, and if they aren't they most likely have psychiatricc

problems severe enough to interfere with their ability to help

patients.

> One person told me she could SEE into my daughter's body and then

told me

> what she saw.

As I said, psychiatric problems. Visual hallucinations are likely to

interfere with a practitioner's ability to perform manipulative

therapy properly.

>I thought that her basic knowledge of anatomy was lacking.

There is some interesting disccusson on the cranial academy's website

about people who want to take their course needing to have adequate

training in anatomy to be able to benefit from it - apparently this is

a well known problem.

> She saw things in the wrong place.

>

> Can anyone tell me if their child was actually helped?

I have seen this in person, including tortuous ear canals where the

eardrum couldn't be seen straightening out so that they looked normal

- with a corresponding end to ear congestion and related hearing

problems (as demonstrated by before and after audiology reports).

As with all therapeutic interventions, this is NOT a one size fits all

thing that is curative for all human ills. It is something that

benefits that small subset of people with problems due to misalignment

of cranial bones. In those cases it is extremely helpful. In other

cases it doesn't do much. The real question isn't whether it helps

some people - it does, as do most " wierd vooodoooo off the wall "

therapies - but whether your daughter is one of the people it will

help. From what you have said it doesn't seem very likely.

>Also, all the

> so-called science these practioners pointed me to was disappointing.

I

> really read all I could, but I could never find the science in it.

I can since I rely on the older, correct definition of science -

reproducible observations are truth and the scientific theory is the

simplest one that explains them - rather than the trendy religious one

requiring publications in fancy journals discussing esoteric research

done with millions of dollars worth of equipment.

Cranial therapy is based on reproducible observation, and techniques

reasonably easy to teach to anyone who wants to learn them, and is

parsimoniously described. Thus it is scientific despite the fact that

it isn't one of the sciences that is currently " on the inside "

politically.

This is not to say that most practitioners are scientific, or have a

clue what science is. But then medicine is an art, not a science.

Check any dictionary. The major failing of modern medicine is turning

people like your daughter into a statistic instead of trying to be

creative and cure them.

> In the end, I think it was only expensive massage therapy.

That's all it is for a lot of people. It's only helpful if you have

the problem it is directed at. Just as I often tell people on list

that a hair test looks really very normal and they need to look at

other possible causes, not everyone has a cranial problem. And as

with my frequent mention of a trial of chelation anyway if someone

wants to do it, once you have TRIED cranial therapy and seen no

response you can be pretty sure the problem isn't a cranial problem.

> I will do ANYTHING for my daughter, so I really want to know if this

therapy

> will help her.

It may or may not, depending on her personal situation. Since you

have tried several practitioners with no result, I think it is

unlikely to help unless she has some of the classic indications such

as liking to mash on her head, liking to mash her head into corners,

or the heaboard of the bed, or the wall, or banging it against things,

or an obvious odd shape or assymetry to her head or face.

Also note that if you find an osteopath who does this, it is often

covered by insurance at least for a few visits. If you pay cash,

chiropractors, physical therapists, etc. are usually much cheaper than

osteopaths.

>

> in Salt Lake City

Andy . .. . . . . . .. . . . . . . . . . . .

>

[Guest guest]

> I'm looking for a good cranial sacral therapist who has worked with

> children (preferably autistic) in the Cleveland area. Anyone know a

> resource to fine one? Thanks

yes, there are a few websites with cranial referrals here:

/files/HOW_TO_find_doctor

look for the section about " cranial sacral " and " cranial

osteopathy " .

best wishes,

Moria

[Guest guest]

Natasha-

Here is a link:

http://www.upledger.com/therapies/cst.htm

The therapist mediatates while laying hands on the head.

It looked pretty hokky to me at first, but Dane always got the best

results right after he got CST. Dane got this treatment for his

tort and plagio.

Dane's mom DOC Grad

[Guest guest]

Thank you for the link. Do you travel to Florida for this? Natasha

"rmanias <rmanias@...>" <rmanias@...> wrote:

Natasha-Here is a link:http://www.upledger.com/therapies/cst.htmThe therapist mediatates while laying hands on the head. It looked pretty hokky to me at first, but Dane always got the best results right after he got CST. Dane got this treatment for his tort and plagio. Dane's mom DOC GradFor more plagio info

[Guest guest]

Hi,

I mentioned cranio sacral therapy in my intro, so thought I would explain. It really isn't about meditation. I took a course on myofascial release and cranio sacral treatment (I'm a pediatric OT). What may look like meditation is that you really have to have great body awareness (so you might have to close your eyes to concentrate) to feel the cranial pulses as you work on the skull. It does seem kind of "new-agey", but it is actually scientific. Because I work on functional tasks and don't actually do massage or spend lots of time with the modalities I mentioned, I have never been great at "feeling" a muscle release, the fascia move, the cranial sutures readjust. I think you have to do it all the time to be good at it.

I guess I would compare it to being a chiropractor for the skull, but with very gentle manipulations. Some people don't believe in chiropractors, so you have to decide what's good for you. When I have done cranial sacral work, it's usually at the base of the skull, lower occiput region. You gently cradle that area, with one hand tractioning at the base of the sacrum (this is for small children). You can feel a relaxing of the muscles at the base of the head, and then you take up the "slack" and complete the stretch again. This helps kids with mobility problems and is generally relaxing. This is just one technique.

There are practitioners all over the world, and the Upledger institute will give you a link that will tell you how to find practitioners on a website (I thought I saved this but can't find the link!)

Best wishes,

[Guest guest]

,

Thanks so much for that great info on CST- we also found it very beneficial with our son in pt for tort. As you mentioned, there are different types of exercises, and we found the biggest muscle release by putting our palm and fingers just under the collar bone, with a finger at the base of the back of the neck (a little more complex than that)- and his shoulders would literally drop so much that soon our hand would be resting very much lower than where we started- we noted this by keeping an eye on the chin and how much space was created from when we started- not to mention you could physically see the muscle release, almost like a big "sigh". I was so glad our pt really emphasized this and taught us exercises to do at home, especially since I felt this was a little weird in the beginning by her closing her eyes and focusing, but after she explained it and taught us, I could totally see the benefit of it. Thanks for sharing your knowledge with us!!!

' Mom

[Guest guest]

At 14 months your son could still benefit from an active band.

Where do you live, maybe there are options that you haven't been

presented? We didn't try CST but we did try cranial osteopathy

treatment when my son was about 17 months old. We didn't notice any

changes. You might want to check out the other Group for

Older Plagio children, many people on that board have tried CST.

Good luck to you!

Natasha

Atlanta

>

> I am looking to hear about your experiences with Cranial Sacral

> therapy. Was it helpful? Did you see an improvement in your child's

> head shape? I am looking into it for my 14 month old son who has

mild

> positional plagiocephaly. It has improved a lot, just with

> repositioning, as he has grown.

>

> Some days I look at him and think that it even I can barely notice

it,

> other days I look at him and I think that it is quite noticeable.

My

> husband can't even see it - he thinks it is completely better. I

don't

> really know what to do. From what it seems like, my insurance will

not

> cover any cst. I would really appreciate hearing your

experiences.

>

> Also, what else is there to do at this age? Where I live they do

not

> offer banding.

>

> Thanks in advance,

>

> gil

>

[Guest guest]

At 14 months your son could still benefit from an active band.

Where do you live, maybe there are options that you haven't been

presented? We didn't try CST but we did try cranial osteopathy

treatment when my son was about 17 months old. We didn't notice any

changes. You might want to check out the other Group for

Older Plagio children, many people on that board have tried CST.

Good luck to you!

Natasha

Atlanta

>

> I am looking to hear about your experiences with Cranial Sacral

> therapy. Was it helpful? Did you see an improvement in your child's

> head shape? I am looking into it for my 14 month old son who has

mild

> positional plagiocephaly. It has improved a lot, just with

> repositioning, as he has grown.

>

> Some days I look at him and think that it even I can barely notice

it,

> other days I look at him and I think that it is quite noticeable.

My

> husband can't even see it - he thinks it is completely better. I

don't

> really know what to do. From what it seems like, my insurance will

not

> cover any cst. I would really appreciate hearing your

experiences.

>

> Also, what else is there to do at this age? Where I live they do

not

> offer banding.

>

> Thanks in advance,

>

> gil

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Gil. We used cranial sacral therapy with our daughter Brielle

starting at 4mos when we noticed plagio and tort, but were

mild/moderate. We repositioned her did Physical therapy and cranial

sacral therapy (one time a week) and were able to stay out of the

band. You can check her out under Brielle B. She now goes to

cranial sacral therapy one time a month. I do feel like the

combination of everything helped alot. Good luck, Debbie and Brielle

(10 mos repostioned)NJ

>

> I am looking to hear about your experiences with Cranial Sacral

> therapy. Was it helpful? Did you see an improvement in your child's

> head shape? I am looking into it for my 14 month old son who has

mild

> positional plagiocephaly. It has improved a lot, just with

> repositioning, as he has grown.

>

> Some days I look at him and think that it even I can barely notice

it,

> other days I look at him and I think that it is quite noticeable. My

> husband can't even see it - he thinks it is completely better. I

don't

> really know what to do. From what it seems like, my insurance will

not

> cover any cst. I would really appreciate hearing your experiences.

>

> Also, what else is there to do at this age? Where I live they do not

> offer banding.

>

> Thanks in advance,

>

> gil

>