Re: GNRH and Lutalyse

[Guest guest]

Maybe I'll learn to keep my mouth shut at some point, but there is a bit of

free time at the moment and I believe in educating or at least prompting

discussions where I can. A quick note from a mod, or anyone else, that they

really would wish I wouldn't and I will go back to lurking and keeping my mouth

shut. ;o)

Out of curiosity, are you against the use of Lutalyse in the case of a cow with

metritis after calving? We had a wonderful 8 year old Jersey cow who ended up

barren because we did not catch her metritis in time. It went untreated. The

simplest and least invasive course is one to two shots (two if the infection

still is there a few weeks later) of Lutalyse to empty the uterus of the

infection. It opens the cervix and expels the contents of the uterus (which is

why it will abort a cow that is pregnant). Hoolie did not get treated and had to

be sold a year and a half later as an open barren cow. One or two shots of a

hormone (which is the same as the hormones found in the cow's body) could have

given Hoolie a longer life. I should mention that our herd's reproductive

health, overall, is generally pretty stellar. At herd health checks the vet was

generally commenting on just how healthy and clean the cows' reproductive health

was. One reason we don't catch thing like Hoolie's issue early enough. We also

always relied on the vet to administer lutalyse if it was warranted as needed.

We now have a bottle on hand, just in case. It sat for over two years before it

was used. I used it on a goat who had been in labor and then stalled with the

cervix closing with the dead kid stuck behind it. I used the lutalyse to open

the cervix back up so we could get the dead kid out. It was a decision that was

not made lightly. Vercua's health and safety were our main concern though. That

was our 173rd kidding on the farm and the first time we even considered the use

of Lutalyse.

Or how about a cystic cow? Just cull her? Carina was cystic as a heifer, a

rapid cycler. She finally settled to a bull who could breed her multiple times

and break the cysts each time. Settled back the first year first service (AI).

Settled back the second time first service (AI). Then she went on to be cystic

in her third lactation again. We opted to use GNRH and lutalyse to break it up

so she could settle. An unfortunate side effect was the twins she settled with,

but she settled. Our first time using GNRH and I'm not sure we would go that

route again. A (stray) bull had been running with the herd for over a month when

we had the vet check her and she still did not settle until after the series of

shots. Maybe if we had waited long enough the bull might have settled her, but

she was very worn down after rapid cycling for two months straight and it does

do damage to the uterine health to be cystic that long as well as her overall

condition. A cow in heat, especially a cow like Carina was, spends most of their

time out on pasture chasing other cows, being ridden and not grazing or resting.

Cull the cow? Or give her another chance by utilizing artificial hormones once

or twice in her lifetime?

Where is the line drawn? Do you not offer/sell milk when a cow is in heat

because her level of hormones is risen above it normal resting level? Or is it

only when the rise is caused by artificial hormones?

Everyone who drinks raw milk should know how their farmer operates and why. The

why is the important part. Ask why. Ask them to explain their choices. If you

don't like them, start up a discussion with the farmer about your concerns, but

keep in mind that the person who actually does the day to day labor, might just

have an understanding about a situation that you are not aware of. There may be

a valid reason for doing what they do. If, after your discussion, the farmer is

set in their ways and isn't interested in considering things from another point

of view, and you are simply not comfortable with their way of farming, then seek

a farmer who operates the way you would prefer.

Roseanna

Journey's End Jerseys

Morning Mist Herd

ville, OH

Dost Thou Have Milk?

Jerseys, Jersey/Norwegian Reds, Boers, Nubians and crossbreeds

http://www.freewebs.com/journeysendjerseys

http://www.freewebs.com/morningmistherd

[Guest guest]

Maybe I'll learn to keep my mouth shut at some point, but there is a bit of

free time at the moment and I believe in educating or at least prompting

discussions where I can. A quick note from a mod, or anyone else, that they

really would wish I wouldn't and I will go back to lurking and keeping my mouth

shut. ;o)

Out of curiosity, are you against the use of Lutalyse in the case of a cow with

metritis after calving? We had a wonderful 8 year old Jersey cow who ended up

barren because we did not catch her metritis in time. It went untreated. The

simplest and least invasive course is one to two shots (two if the infection

still is there a few weeks later) of Lutalyse to empty the uterus of the

infection. It opens the cervix and expels the contents of the uterus (which is

why it will abort a cow that is pregnant). Hoolie did not get treated and had to

be sold a year and a half later as an open barren cow. One or two shots of a

hormone (which is the same as the hormones found in the cow's body) could have

given Hoolie a longer life. I should mention that our herd's reproductive

health, overall, is generally pretty stellar. At herd health checks the vet was

generally commenting on just how healthy and clean the cows' reproductive health

was. One reason we don't catch thing like Hoolie's issue early enough. We also

always relied on the vet to administer lutalyse if it was warranted as needed.

We now have a bottle on hand, just in case. It sat for over two years before it

was used. I used it on a goat who had been in labor and then stalled with the

cervix closing with the dead kid stuck behind it. I used the lutalyse to open

the cervix back up so we could get the dead kid out. It was a decision that was

not made lightly. Vercua's health and safety were our main concern though. That

was our 173rd kidding on the farm and the first time we even considered the use

of Lutalyse.

Or how about a cystic cow? Just cull her? Carina was cystic as a heifer, a

rapid cycler. She finally settled to a bull who could breed her multiple times

and break the cysts each time. Settled back the first year first service (AI).

Settled back the second time first service (AI). Then she went on to be cystic

in her third lactation again. We opted to use GNRH and lutalyse to break it up

so she could settle. An unfortunate side effect was the twins she settled with,

but she settled. Our first time using GNRH and I'm not sure we would go that

route again. A (stray) bull had been running with the herd for over a month when

we had the vet check her and she still did not settle until after the series of

shots. Maybe if we had waited long enough the bull might have settled her, but

she was very worn down after rapid cycling for two months straight and it does

do damage to the uterine health to be cystic that long as well as her overall

condition. A cow in heat, especially a cow like Carina was, spends most of their

time out on pasture chasing other cows, being ridden and not grazing or resting.

Cull the cow? Or give her another chance by utilizing artificial hormones once

or twice in her lifetime?

Where is the line drawn? Do you not offer/sell milk when a cow is in heat

because her level of hormones is risen above it normal resting level? Or is it

only when the rise is caused by artificial hormones?

Everyone who drinks raw milk should know how their farmer operates and why. The

why is the important part. Ask why. Ask them to explain their choices. If you

don't like them, start up a discussion with the farmer about your concerns, but

keep in mind that the person who actually does the day to day labor, might just

have an understanding about a situation that you are not aware of. There may be

a valid reason for doing what they do. If, after your discussion, the farmer is

set in their ways and isn't interested in considering things from another point

of view, and you are simply not comfortable with their way of farming, then seek

a farmer who operates the way you would prefer.

Roseanna

Journey's End Jerseys

Morning Mist Herd

ville, OH

Dost Thou Have Milk?

Jerseys, Jersey/Norwegian Reds, Boers, Nubians and crossbreeds

http://www.freewebs.com/journeysendjerseys

http://www.freewebs.com/morningmistherd

[Guest guest]

Roseanna

I'm not against the use of Lutalyse in emergency health care situations....just against those who make false claims about not using artificial hormones when in fact they do. It's not ethical to mislead.

I have no problem if you use Lut. GNRH, antibiotics, pour on dewormers, or GMO corn and beans etc. Sounds like you are very careful and loving with your herd. Maybe none of these things harm people at all....but maybe they do. Just be sure to level with your customers. If they know, and are happy....no problem.

Peace and Blessings from another Jersey Farmer .I love your "Doest thou have milk?" line

Edwin Shank

Shankstead EcoFarm

The Family Cow LLC

From: Roseanna

Sent: Thursday, March 12, 2009 10:08 AM

To: RawDairy

Subject: Re: GNRH and Lutalyse

Maybe I'll learn to keep my mouth shut at some point, but there is a bit of free time at the moment and I believe in educating or at least prompting discussions where I can. A quick note from a mod, or anyone else, that they really would wish I wouldn't and I will go back to lurking and keeping my mouth shut. ;o)Out of curiosity, are you against the use of Lutalyse in the case of a cow with metritis after calving? We had a wonderful 8 year old Jersey cow who ended up barren because we did not catch her metritis in time. It went untreated. The simplest and least invasive course is one to two shots (two if the infection still is there a few weeks later) of Lutalyse to empty the uterus of the infection. It opens the cervix and expels the contents of the uterus (which is why it will abort a cow that is pregnant). Hoolie did not get treated and had to be sold a year and a half later as an open barren cow. One or two shots of a hormone (which is the same as the hormones found in the cow's body) could have given Hoolie a longer life. I should mention that our herd's reproductive health, overall, is generally pretty stellar. At herd health checks the vet was generally commenting on just how healthy and clean the cows' reproductive health was. One reason we don't catch thing like Hoolie's iss ue early enough. We also always relied on the vet to administer lutalyse if it was warranted as needed. We now have a bottle on hand, just in case. It sat for over two years before it was used. I used it on a goat who had been in labor and then stalled with the cervix closing with the dead kid stuck behind it. I used the lutalyse to open the cervix back up so we could get the dead kid out. It was a decision that was not made lightly. Vercua's health and safety were our main concern though. That was our 173rd kidding on the farm and the first time we even considered the use of Lutalyse.Or how about a cystic cow? Just cull her? Carina was cystic as a heifer, a rapid cycler. She finally settled to a bull who could breed her multiple times and break the cysts each time. Settled back the first year first service (AI). Settled back the second time first service (AI). Then she went on to be cystic in her third lactation again. We opted to use GNRH and lutalyse to break it up so she could settle. An unfortunate side effect was the twins she settled with, but she settled. Our first time using GNRH and I'm not sure we would go that route again. A (stray) bull had been running with the herd for over a month when we had the vet check her and she still did not settle until after the series of shots. Maybe if we had waited long enough the bull might have settled her, but she was very worn down after rapid cycling for two months straight and it does do damage to the uterine health to be cystic that long as well as her overall condition. A cow in heat, especially a cow l ike Carina was, spends most of their time out on pasture chasing other cows, being ridden and not grazing or resting. Cull the cow? Or give her another chance by utilizing artificial hormones once or twice in her lifetime?Where is the line drawn? Do you not offer/sell milk when a cow is in heat because her level of hormones is risen above it normal resting level? Or is it only when the rise is caused by artificial hormones?Everyone who drinks raw milk should know how their farmer operates and why. The why is the important part. Ask why. Ask them to explain their choices. If you don't like them, start up a discussion with the farmer about your concerns, but keep in mind that the person who actually does the day to day labor, might just have an understanding about a situation that you are not aware of. There may be a valid reason for doing what they do. If, after your discussion, the farmer is set in their ways and isn't interested in considering things from another point of view, and you are simply not comfortable with their way of farming, then seek a farmer who operates the way you would prefer. RoseannaJourney's End JerseysMorning Mist Herdville, OHDost Thou Have Milk?Jerseys, Jersey/Norwegian Reds, Boers, Nubians and crossbreedshttp://www.freewebs.com/journeysendjerseyshttp://www.freewebs.com/morningmistherd

No virus found in this incoming message.Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.11/1997 - Release Date: 03/12/09 10:38:00

[Guest guest]

Roseanna

I'm not against the use of Lutalyse in emergency health care situations....just against those who make false claims about not using artificial hormones when in fact they do. It's not ethical to mislead.

I have no problem if you use Lut. GNRH, antibiotics, pour on dewormers, or GMO corn and beans etc. Sounds like you are very careful and loving with your herd. Maybe none of these things harm people at all....but maybe they do. Just be sure to level with your customers. If they know, and are happy....no problem.

Peace and Blessings from another Jersey Farmer .I love your "Doest thou have milk?" line

Edwin Shank

Shankstead EcoFarm

The Family Cow LLC

From: Roseanna

Sent: Thursday, March 12, 2009 10:08 AM

To: RawDairy

Subject: Re: GNRH and Lutalyse

Maybe I'll learn to keep my mouth shut at some point, but there is a bit of free time at the moment and I believe in educating or at least prompting discussions where I can. A quick note from a mod, or anyone else, that they really would wish I wouldn't and I will go back to lurking and keeping my mouth shut. ;o)Out of curiosity, are you against the use of Lutalyse in the case of a cow with metritis after calving? We had a wonderful 8 year old Jersey cow who ended up barren because we did not catch her metritis in time. It went untreated. The simplest and least invasive course is one to two shots (two if the infection still is there a few weeks later) of Lutalyse to empty the uterus of the infection. It opens the cervix and expels the contents of the uterus (which is why it will abort a cow that is pregnant). Hoolie did not get treated and had to be sold a year and a half later as an open barren cow. One or two shots of a hormone (which is the same as the hormones found in the cow's body) could have given Hoolie a longer life. I should mention that our herd's reproductive health, overall, is generally pretty stellar. At herd health checks the vet was generally commenting on just how healthy and clean the cows' reproductive health was. One reason we don't catch thing like Hoolie's iss ue early enough. We also always relied on the vet to administer lutalyse if it was warranted as needed. We now have a bottle on hand, just in case. It sat for over two years before it was used. I used it on a goat who had been in labor and then stalled with the cervix closing with the dead kid stuck behind it. I used the lutalyse to open the cervix back up so we could get the dead kid out. It was a decision that was not made lightly. Vercua's health and safety were our main concern though. That was our 173rd kidding on the farm and the first time we even considered the use of Lutalyse.Or how about a cystic cow? Just cull her? Carina was cystic as a heifer, a rapid cycler. She finally settled to a bull who could breed her multiple times and break the cysts each time. Settled back the first year first service (AI). Settled back the second time first service (AI). Then she went on to be cystic in her third lactation again. We opted to use GNRH and lutalyse to break it up so she could settle. An unfortunate side effect was the twins she settled with, but she settled. Our first time using GNRH and I'm not sure we would go that route again. A (stray) bull had been running with the herd for over a month when we had the vet check her and she still did not settle until after the series of shots. Maybe if we had waited long enough the bull might have settled her, but she was very worn down after rapid cycling for two months straight and it does do damage to the uterine health to be cystic that long as well as her overall condition. A cow in heat, especially a cow l ike Carina was, spends most of their time out on pasture chasing other cows, being ridden and not grazing or resting. Cull the cow? Or give her another chance by utilizing artificial hormones once or twice in her lifetime?Where is the line drawn? Do you not offer/sell milk when a cow is in heat because her level of hormones is risen above it normal resting level? Or is it only when the rise is caused by artificial hormones?Everyone who drinks raw milk should know how their farmer operates and why. The why is the important part. Ask why. Ask them to explain their choices. If you don't like them, start up a discussion with the farmer about your concerns, but keep in mind that the person who actually does the day to day labor, might just have an understanding about a situation that you are not aware of. There may be a valid reason for doing what they do. If, after your discussion, the farmer is set in their ways and isn't interested in considering things from another point of view, and you are simply not comfortable with their way of farming, then seek a farmer who operates the way you would prefer. RoseannaJourney's End JerseysMorning Mist Herdville, OHDost Thou Have Milk?Jerseys, Jersey/Norwegian Reds, Boers, Nubians and crossbreedshttp://www.freewebs.com/journeysendjerseyshttp://www.freewebs.com/morningmistherd

No virus found in this incoming message.Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.11/1997 - Release Date: 03/12/09 10:38:00

[Guest guest]

Absolutely! I've been pondering that issue all morning milking my herd of holsteins. Is lutalyse that terrible when used to benefit the life of my cows? When one is too young to carry a calf to full term and needs to abort? Or one that needs help cleaning? L

To: RawDairy Sent: Thursday, March 12, 2009 9:08:45 AMSubject: Re: GNRH and Lutalyse

Maybe I'll learn to keep my mouth shut at some point, but there is a bit of free time at the moment and I believe in educating or at least prompting discussions where I can. A quick note from a mod, or anyone else, that they really would wish I wouldn't and I will go back to lurking and keeping my mouth shut. ;o)Out of curiosity, are you against the use of Lutalyse in the case of a cow with metritis after calving? We had a wonderful 8 year old Jersey cow who ended up barren because we did not catch her metritis in time. It went untreated. The simplest and least invasive course is one to two shots (two if the infection still is there a few weeks later) of Lutalyse to empty the uterus of the infection. It opens the cervix and expels the contents of the uterus (which is why it will abort a cow that is pregnant). Hoolie did not get treated and had to be sold a year and a half later as an open barren cow. One or two shots of a hormone (which is the

same as the hormones found in the cow's body) could have given Hoolie a longer life. I should mention that our herd's reproductive health, overall, is generally pretty stellar. At herd health checks the vet was generally commenting on just how healthy and clean the cows' reproductive health was. One reason we don't catch thing like Hoolie's issue early enough. We also always relied on the vet to administer lutalyse if it was warranted as needed. We now have a bottle on hand, just in case. It sat for over two years before it was used. I used it on a goat who had been in labor and then stalled with the cervix closing with the dead kid stuck behind it. I used the lutalyse to open the cervix back up so we could get the dead kid out. It was a decision that was not made lightly. Vercua's health and safety were our main concern though. That was our 173rd kidding on the farm and the first time we even considered the use of Lutalyse.Or how about a cystic

cow? Just cull her? Carina was cystic as a heifer, a rapid cycler. She finally settled to a bull who could breed her multiple times and break the cysts each time. Settled back the first year first service (AI). Settled back the second time first service (AI). Then she went on to be cystic in her third lactation again. We opted to use GNRH and lutalyse to break it up so she could settle. An unfortunate side effect was the twins she settled with, but she settled. Our first time using GNRH and I'm not sure we would go that route again. A (stray) bull had been running with the herd for over a month when we had the vet check her and she still did not settle until after the series of shots. Maybe if we had waited long enough the bull might have settled her, but she was very worn down after rapid cycling for two months straight and it does do damage to the uterine health to be cystic that long as well as her overall condition. A cow in heat, especially a cow

like Carina was, spends most of their time out on pasture chasing other cows, being ridden and not grazing or resting. Cull the cow? Or give her another chance by utilizing artificial hormones once or twice in her lifetime?Where is the line drawn? Do you not offer/sell milk when a cow is in heat because her level of hormones is risen above it normal resting level? Or is it only when the rise is caused by artificial hormones?Everyone who drinks raw milk should know how their farmer operates and why. The why is the important part. Ask why. Ask them to explain their choices. If you don't like them, start up a discussion with the farmer about your concerns, but keep in mind that the person who actually does the day to day labor, might just have an understanding about a situation that you are not aware of. There may be a valid reason for doing what they do. If, after your discussion, the farmer is set in their ways and isn't interested in

considering things from another point of view, and you are simply not comfortable with their way of farming, then seek a farmer who operates the way you would prefer. RoseannaJourney's End JerseysMorning Mist Herdville, OHDost Thou Have Milk?Jerseys, Jersey/Norwegian Reds, Boers, Nubians and crossbreedshttp://www.freewebs.com/journeysendjerseyshttp://www.freewebs.com/morningmistherd

[Guest guest]

Absolutely! I've been pondering that issue all morning milking my herd of holsteins. Is lutalyse that terrible when used to benefit the life of my cows? When one is too young to carry a calf to full term and needs to abort? Or one that needs help cleaning? L

To: RawDairy Sent: Thursday, March 12, 2009 9:08:45 AMSubject: Re: GNRH and Lutalyse

Maybe I'll learn to keep my mouth shut at some point, but there is a bit of free time at the moment and I believe in educating or at least prompting discussions where I can. A quick note from a mod, or anyone else, that they really would wish I wouldn't and I will go back to lurking and keeping my mouth shut. ;o)Out of curiosity, are you against the use of Lutalyse in the case of a cow with metritis after calving? We had a wonderful 8 year old Jersey cow who ended up barren because we did not catch her metritis in time. It went untreated. The simplest and least invasive course is one to two shots (two if the infection still is there a few weeks later) of Lutalyse to empty the uterus of the infection. It opens the cervix and expels the contents of the uterus (which is why it will abort a cow that is pregnant). Hoolie did not get treated and had to be sold a year and a half later as an open barren cow. One or two shots of a hormone (which is the

same as the hormones found in the cow's body) could have given Hoolie a longer life. I should mention that our herd's reproductive health, overall, is generally pretty stellar. At herd health checks the vet was generally commenting on just how healthy and clean the cows' reproductive health was. One reason we don't catch thing like Hoolie's issue early enough. We also always relied on the vet to administer lutalyse if it was warranted as needed. We now have a bottle on hand, just in case. It sat for over two years before it was used. I used it on a goat who had been in labor and then stalled with the cervix closing with the dead kid stuck behind it. I used the lutalyse to open the cervix back up so we could get the dead kid out. It was a decision that was not made lightly. Vercua's health and safety were our main concern though. That was our 173rd kidding on the farm and the first time we even considered the use of Lutalyse.Or how about a cystic

cow? Just cull her? Carina was cystic as a heifer, a rapid cycler. She finally settled to a bull who could breed her multiple times and break the cysts each time. Settled back the first year first service (AI). Settled back the second time first service (AI). Then she went on to be cystic in her third lactation again. We opted to use GNRH and lutalyse to break it up so she could settle. An unfortunate side effect was the twins she settled with, but she settled. Our first time using GNRH and I'm not sure we would go that route again. A (stray) bull had been running with the herd for over a month when we had the vet check her and she still did not settle until after the series of shots. Maybe if we had waited long enough the bull might have settled her, but she was very worn down after rapid cycling for two months straight and it does do damage to the uterine health to be cystic that long as well as her overall condition. A cow in heat, especially a cow

like Carina was, spends most of their time out on pasture chasing other cows, being ridden and not grazing or resting. Cull the cow? Or give her another chance by utilizing artificial hormones once or twice in her lifetime?Where is the line drawn? Do you not offer/sell milk when a cow is in heat because her level of hormones is risen above it normal resting level? Or is it only when the rise is caused by artificial hormones?Everyone who drinks raw milk should know how their farmer operates and why. The why is the important part. Ask why. Ask them to explain their choices. If you don't like them, start up a discussion with the farmer about your concerns, but keep in mind that the person who actually does the day to day labor, might just have an understanding about a situation that you are not aware of. There may be a valid reason for doing what they do. If, after your discussion, the farmer is set in their ways and isn't interested in

considering things from another point of view, and you are simply not comfortable with their way of farming, then seek a farmer who operates the way you would prefer. RoseannaJourney's End JerseysMorning Mist Herdville, OHDost Thou Have Milk?Jerseys, Jersey/Norwegian Reds, Boers, Nubians and crossbreedshttp://www.freewebs.com/journeysendjerseyshttp://www.freewebs.com/morningmistherd

[Guest guest]

Roseanna

thank you and well put. we have one milk customer that decided not to buy or milk in this winter because they are not on pasture. Well, HELLO, look around! kinda hard to graze when the grass in under 6+ inches of snow! so yes, we do supplement with corn. We would rather the cow have some grain with her hay and be conditioned to calve, then be skin and bones, calve, and try to recondition herself AND produce milk! This gal, as to my understanding, is almost a right wing extremist! a customer that i may not particularly want. If you are NOT a producer and you don't have an understanding of the farmer's practices then ye, by all means, then go with out or find another farmer. But IF you want to learn about the 'why's' of a farmer then, by all means, educate and ask the farmer.

She doesn't buy direct from us but thru someone else. My question for her would be, how much are you willing to pay for the milk? I bet if she found out how much we would have to charge for milk if we bought organic hay she wouldn't buy that either.

If consumers don't know and just ASSUME, well, we all know what happens when you ASSUME something, and this is usually true. Each farmer/farm is different for different reasons. We are more than willing to educate people. BUT they also have to be willing to understand and learn. (i step down off my soap box)

Ro

Re: GNRH and Lutalyse

Maybe I'll learn to keep my mouth shut at some point, but there is a bit of free time at the moment and I believe in educating or at least prompting discussions where I can. A quick note from a mod, or anyone else, that they really would wish I wouldn't and I will go back to lurking and keeping my mouth shut. ;o)Out of curiosity, are you against the use of Lutalyse in the case of a cow with metritis after calving? We had a wonderful 8 year old Jersey cow who ended up barren because we did not catch her metritis in time. It went untreated. The simplest and least invasive course is one to two shots (two if the infection still is there a few weeks later) of Lutalyse to empty the uterus of the infection. It opens the cervix and expels the contents of the uterus (which is why it will abort a cow that is pregnant). Hoolie did not get treated and had to be sold a year and a half later as an open barren cow. One or two shots of a hormone (which is the same as the hormones found in the cow's body) could have given Hoolie a longer life. I should mention that our herd's reproductive health, overall, is generally pretty stellar. At herd health checks the vet was generally commenting on just how healthy and clean the cows' reproductive health was. One reason we don't catch thing like Hoolie's issue early enough. We also always relied on the vet to administer lutalyse if it was warranted as needed. We now have a bottle on hand, just in case. It sat for over two years before it was used. I used it on a goat who had been in labor and then stalled with the cervix closing with the dead kid stuck behind it. I used the lutalyse to open the cervix back up so we could get the dead kid out. It was a decision that was not made lightly. Vercua's health and safety were our main concern though. That was our 173rd kidding on the farm and the first time we even considered the use of Lutalyse.Or how about a cystic cow? Just cull her? Carina was cystic as a heifer, a rapid cycler. She finally settled to a bull who could breed her multiple times and break the cysts each time. Settled back the first year first service (AI). Settled back the second time first service (AI). Then she went on to be cystic in her third lactation again. We opted to use GNRH and lutalyse to break it up so she could settle. An unfortunate side effect was the twins she settled with, but she settled. Our first time using GNRH and I'm not sure we would go that route again. A (stray) bull had been running with the herd for over a month when we had the vet check her and she still did not settle until after the series of shots. Maybe if we had waited long enough the bull might have settled her, but she was very worn down after rapid cycling for two months straight and it does do damage to the uterine health to be cystic that long as well as her overall condition. A cow in heat, especially a cow like Carina was, spends most of their time out on pasture chasing other cows, being ridden and not grazing or resting. Cull the cow? Or give her another chance by utilizing artificial hormones once or twice in her lifetime?Where is the line drawn? Do you not offer/sell milk when a cow is in heat because her level of hormones is risen above it normal resting level? Or is it only when the rise is caused by artificial hormones?Everyone who drinks raw milk should know how their farmer operates and why. The why is the important part. Ask why. Ask them to explain their choices. If you don't like them, start up a discussion with the farmer about your concerns, but keep in mind that the person who actually does the day to day labor, might just have an understanding about a situation that you are not aware of. There may be a valid reason for doing what they do. If, after your discussion, the farmer is set in their ways and isn't interested in considering things from another point of view, and you are simply not comfortable with their way of farming, then seek a farmer who operates the way you would prefer. RoseannaJourney's End JerseysMorning Mist Herdville, OHDost Thou Have Milk?Jerseys, Jersey/Norwegian Reds, Boers, Nubians and crossbreedshttp://www.freewebs.com/journeysendjerseyshttp://www.freewebs.com/morningmistherd

No virus found in this incoming message.Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.10/1996 - Release Date: 03/11/09 20:42:00

[Guest guest]

Roseanna

thank you and well put. we have one milk customer that decided not to buy or milk in this winter because they are not on pasture. Well, HELLO, look around! kinda hard to graze when the grass in under 6+ inches of snow! so yes, we do supplement with corn. We would rather the cow have some grain with her hay and be conditioned to calve, then be skin and bones, calve, and try to recondition herself AND produce milk! This gal, as to my understanding, is almost a right wing extremist! a customer that i may not particularly want. If you are NOT a producer and you don't have an understanding of the farmer's practices then ye, by all means, then go with out or find another farmer. But IF you want to learn about the 'why's' of a farmer then, by all means, educate and ask the farmer.

She doesn't buy direct from us but thru someone else. My question for her would be, how much are you willing to pay for the milk? I bet if she found out how much we would have to charge for milk if we bought organic hay she wouldn't buy that either.

If consumers don't know and just ASSUME, well, we all know what happens when you ASSUME something, and this is usually true. Each farmer/farm is different for different reasons. We are more than willing to educate people. BUT they also have to be willing to understand and learn. (i step down off my soap box)

Ro

Re: GNRH and Lutalyse

Maybe I'll learn to keep my mouth shut at some point, but there is a bit of free time at the moment and I believe in educating or at least prompting discussions where I can. A quick note from a mod, or anyone else, that they really would wish I wouldn't and I will go back to lurking and keeping my mouth shut. ;o)Out of curiosity, are you against the use of Lutalyse in the case of a cow with metritis after calving? We had a wonderful 8 year old Jersey cow who ended up barren because we did not catch her metritis in time. It went untreated. The simplest and least invasive course is one to two shots (two if the infection still is there a few weeks later) of Lutalyse to empty the uterus of the infection. It opens the cervix and expels the contents of the uterus (which is why it will abort a cow that is pregnant). Hoolie did not get treated and had to be sold a year and a half later as an open barren cow. One or two shots of a hormone (which is the same as the hormones found in the cow's body) could have given Hoolie a longer life. I should mention that our herd's reproductive health, overall, is generally pretty stellar. At herd health checks the vet was generally commenting on just how healthy and clean the cows' reproductive health was. One reason we don't catch thing like Hoolie's issue early enough. We also always relied on the vet to administer lutalyse if it was warranted as needed. We now have a bottle on hand, just in case. It sat for over two years before it was used. I used it on a goat who had been in labor and then stalled with the cervix closing with the dead kid stuck behind it. I used the lutalyse to open the cervix back up so we could get the dead kid out. It was a decision that was not made lightly. Vercua's health and safety were our main concern though. That was our 173rd kidding on the farm and the first time we even considered the use of Lutalyse.Or how about a cystic cow? Just cull her? Carina was cystic as a heifer, a rapid cycler. She finally settled to a bull who could breed her multiple times and break the cysts each time. Settled back the first year first service (AI). Settled back the second time first service (AI). Then she went on to be cystic in her third lactation again. We opted to use GNRH and lutalyse to break it up so she could settle. An unfortunate side effect was the twins she settled with, but she settled. Our first time using GNRH and I'm not sure we would go that route again. A (stray) bull had been running with the herd for over a month when we had the vet check her and she still did not settle until after the series of shots. Maybe if we had waited long enough the bull might have settled her, but she was very worn down after rapid cycling for two months straight and it does do damage to the uterine health to be cystic that long as well as her overall condition. A cow in heat, especially a cow like Carina was, spends most of their time out on pasture chasing other cows, being ridden and not grazing or resting. Cull the cow? Or give her another chance by utilizing artificial hormones once or twice in her lifetime?Where is the line drawn? Do you not offer/sell milk when a cow is in heat because her level of hormones is risen above it normal resting level? Or is it only when the rise is caused by artificial hormones?Everyone who drinks raw milk should know how their farmer operates and why. The why is the important part. Ask why. Ask them to explain their choices. If you don't like them, start up a discussion with the farmer about your concerns, but keep in mind that the person who actually does the day to day labor, might just have an understanding about a situation that you are not aware of. There may be a valid reason for doing what they do. If, after your discussion, the farmer is set in their ways and isn't interested in considering things from another point of view, and you are simply not comfortable with their way of farming, then seek a farmer who operates the way you would prefer. RoseannaJourney's End JerseysMorning Mist Herdville, OHDost Thou Have Milk?Jerseys, Jersey/Norwegian Reds, Boers, Nubians and crossbreedshttp://www.freewebs.com/journeysendjerseyshttp://www.freewebs.com/morningmistherd

No virus found in this incoming message.Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.10/1996 - Release Date: 03/11/09 20:42:00

[Guest guest]

I pray that you don't decide to shut your mouth, for it is often only from posts

such as yours that give us non farming consumers a much better look at the

issues faced by the active farmers that produce the milk we have chosen to

consume!

The health of: the farm,the pasture, the cows and our milk all depend on it! The

decisions, made by our farmers such as you and many others alike, are the soul

of what properly informed consumers should know.

Also that by sharing the nuts and bolts of dairying with others we all gain

insights that would be missed otherwise.

Sincerely,

Rick A.

KEEP IT UP, AND THANKS

>

> Maybe I'll learn to keep my mouth shut at some point, but there is a bit of

free time at the moment and I believe in educating or at least prompting

discussions where I can. A quick note from a mod, or anyone else, that they

really would wish I wouldn't and I will go back to lurking and keeping my mouth

shut. ;o)

>

> Out of curiosity, are you against the use of Lutalyse in the case of a cow

with metritis after calving? We had a wonderful 8 year old Jersey cow who ended

up barren because we did not catch her metritis in time. It went untreated. The

simplest and least invasive course is one to two shots (two if the infection

still is there a few weeks later) of Lutalyse to empty the uterus of the

infection. It opens the cervix and expels the contents of the uterus (which is

why it will abort a cow that is pregnant). Hoolie did not get treated and had to

be sold a year and a half later as an open barren cow. One or two shots of a

hormone (which is the same as the hormones found in the cow's body) could have

given Hoolie a longer life. I should mention that our herd's reproductive

health, overall, is generally pretty stellar. At herd health checks the vet was

generally commenting on just how healthy and clean the cows' reproductive health

was. One reason we don't catch thing like Hoolie's issue early enough. We also

always relied on the vet to administer lutalyse if it was warranted as needed.

We now have a bottle on hand, just in case. It sat for over two years before it

was used. I used it on a goat who had been in labor and then stalled with the

cervix closing with the dead kid stuck behind it. I used the lutalyse to open

the cervix back up so we could get the dead kid out. It was a decision that was

not made lightly. Vercua's health and safety were our main concern though. That

was our 173rd kidding on the farm and the first time we even considered the use

of Lutalyse.

> Or how about a cystic cow? Just cull her? Carina was cystic as a heifer, a

rapid cycler. She finally settled to a bull who could breed her multiple times

and break the cysts each time. Settled back the first year first service (AI).

Settled back the second time first service (AI). Then she went on to be cystic

in her third lactation again. We opted to use GNRH and lutalyse to break it up

so she could settle. An unfortunate side effect was the twins she settled with,

but she settled. Our first time using GNRH and I'm not sure we would go that

route again. A (stray) bull had been running with the herd for over a month when

we had the vet check her and she still did not settle until after the series of

shots. Maybe if we had waited long enough the bull might have settled her, but

she was very worn down after rapid cycling for two months straight and it does

do damage to the uterine health to be cystic that long as well as her overall

condition. A cow in heat, especially a cow like Carina was, spends most of their

time out on pasture chasing other cows, being ridden and not grazing or resting.

Cull the cow? Or give her another chance by utilizing artificial hormones once

or twice in her lifetime?

>

> Where is the line drawn? Do you not offer/sell milk when a cow is in heat

because her level of hormones is risen above it normal resting level? Or is it

only when the rise is caused by artificial hormones?

>

> Everyone who drinks raw milk should know how their farmer operates and why.

The why is the important part. Ask why. Ask them to explain their choices. If

you don't like them, start up a discussion with the farmer about your concerns,

but keep in mind that the person who actually does the day to day labor, might

just have an understanding about a situation that you are not aware of. There

may be a valid reason for doing what they do. If, after your discussion, the

farmer is set in their ways and isn't interested in considering things from

another point of view, and you are simply not comfortable with their way of

farming, then seek a farmer who operates the way you would prefer.

>

> Roseanna

> Journey's End Jerseys

> Morning Mist Herd

> ville, OH

> Dost Thou Have Milk?

> Jerseys, Jersey/Norwegian Reds, Boers, Nubians and crossbreeds

> http://www.freewebs.com/journeysendjerseys

> http://www.freewebs.com/morningmistherd

>

[Guest guest]

I pray that you don't decide to shut your mouth, for it is often only from posts

such as yours that give us non farming consumers a much better look at the

issues faced by the active farmers that produce the milk we have chosen to

consume!

The health of: the farm,the pasture, the cows and our milk all depend on it! The

decisions, made by our farmers such as you and many others alike, are the soul

of what properly informed consumers should know.

Also that by sharing the nuts and bolts of dairying with others we all gain

insights that would be missed otherwise.

Sincerely,

Rick A.

KEEP IT UP, AND THANKS

>

> Maybe I'll learn to keep my mouth shut at some point, but there is a bit of

free time at the moment and I believe in educating or at least prompting

discussions where I can. A quick note from a mod, or anyone else, that they

really would wish I wouldn't and I will go back to lurking and keeping my mouth

shut. ;o)

>

> Out of curiosity, are you against the use of Lutalyse in the case of a cow

with metritis after calving? We had a wonderful 8 year old Jersey cow who ended

up barren because we did not catch her metritis in time. It went untreated. The

simplest and least invasive course is one to two shots (two if the infection

still is there a few weeks later) of Lutalyse to empty the uterus of the

infection. It opens the cervix and expels the contents of the uterus (which is

why it will abort a cow that is pregnant). Hoolie did not get treated and had to

be sold a year and a half later as an open barren cow. One or two shots of a

hormone (which is the same as the hormones found in the cow's body) could have

given Hoolie a longer life. I should mention that our herd's reproductive

health, overall, is generally pretty stellar. At herd health checks the vet was

generally commenting on just how healthy and clean the cows' reproductive health

was. One reason we don't catch thing like Hoolie's issue early enough. We also

always relied on the vet to administer lutalyse if it was warranted as needed.

We now have a bottle on hand, just in case. It sat for over two years before it

was used. I used it on a goat who had been in labor and then stalled with the

cervix closing with the dead kid stuck behind it. I used the lutalyse to open

the cervix back up so we could get the dead kid out. It was a decision that was

not made lightly. Vercua's health and safety were our main concern though. That

was our 173rd kidding on the farm and the first time we even considered the use

of Lutalyse.

> Or how about a cystic cow? Just cull her? Carina was cystic as a heifer, a

rapid cycler. She finally settled to a bull who could breed her multiple times

and break the cysts each time. Settled back the first year first service (AI).

Settled back the second time first service (AI). Then she went on to be cystic

in her third lactation again. We opted to use GNRH and lutalyse to break it up

so she could settle. An unfortunate side effect was the twins she settled with,

but she settled. Our first time using GNRH and I'm not sure we would go that

route again. A (stray) bull had been running with the herd for over a month when

we had the vet check her and she still did not settle until after the series of

shots. Maybe if we had waited long enough the bull might have settled her, but

she was very worn down after rapid cycling for two months straight and it does

do damage to the uterine health to be cystic that long as well as her overall

condition. A cow in heat, especially a cow like Carina was, spends most of their

time out on pasture chasing other cows, being ridden and not grazing or resting.

Cull the cow? Or give her another chance by utilizing artificial hormones once

or twice in her lifetime?

>

> Where is the line drawn? Do you not offer/sell milk when a cow is in heat

because her level of hormones is risen above it normal resting level? Or is it

only when the rise is caused by artificial hormones?

>

> Everyone who drinks raw milk should know how their farmer operates and why.

The why is the important part. Ask why. Ask them to explain their choices. If

you don't like them, start up a discussion with the farmer about your concerns,

but keep in mind that the person who actually does the day to day labor, might

just have an understanding about a situation that you are not aware of. There

may be a valid reason for doing what they do. If, after your discussion, the

farmer is set in their ways and isn't interested in considering things from

another point of view, and you are simply not comfortable with their way of

farming, then seek a farmer who operates the way you would prefer.

>

> Roseanna

> Journey's End Jerseys

> Morning Mist Herd

> ville, OH

> Dost Thou Have Milk?

> Jerseys, Jersey/Norwegian Reds, Boers, Nubians and crossbreeds

> http://www.freewebs.com/journeysendjerseys

> http://www.freewebs.com/morningmistherd

>

[Guest guest]

Lutalyse and GNRH are being used as a reproductive band-aide. to use it to treat a cystic cow or a cow with metritis etc, is an occasional use. But most of your milk comes from large herds now 1000 cow all the way up to 10,000 cow dairy's.This is not a natural hormone this is a synthetic hormone just like rBST. A sync program is very common place in these herds. First shot of Lute to every fresh cow at 42 days post calving is very common regardless of infection. This is called a pre sync ovsync program. Where every cow is synced and time A I if not in heat. This reduces breeder error on the farm and makes sure every cow has a recorded heat and breeding before 75 days fresh. The vets make a killing on drug sales. on a 2000 cow herd you can have anywhere around 300 to 400 cows at different stages of lactation on hormone shots. As far as it

being a natural safe naturally existing hormone Roseanne, I don't know anywhere on a cow that says should NOT be handled by women of child bearing age because could cause miscarriage or abortion. these hormones are being used at high doses forcing cows respond.Subject: Re: Re: GNRH and LutalyseTo: RawDairy Date: Thursday, March 12, 2009, 3:45 PM

Roseanna

thank you and well put. we have one milk customer that decided not to buy or milk in this winter because they are not on pasture. Well, HELLO, look around! kinda hard to graze when the grass in under 6+ inches of snow! so yes, we do supplement with corn. We would rather the cow have some grain with her hay and be conditioned to calve, then be skin and bones, calve, and try to recondition herself AND produce milk! This gal, as to my understanding, is almost a right wing extremist! a customer that i may not particularly want. If you are NOT a producer and you don't have an understanding of the farmer's practices then ye, by all means, then go with out or find another farmer. But IF you want to learn about the 'why's' of a farmer then, by all means, educate and ask the farmer.

She doesn't buy direct from us but thru someone else. My question for her would be, how much are you willing to pay for the milk? I bet if she found out how much we would have to charge for milk if we bought organic hay she wouldn't buy that either.

If consumers don't know and just ASSUME, well, we all know what happens when you ASSUME something, and this is usually true. Each farmer/farm is different for different reasons. We are more than willing to educate people. BUT they also have to be willing to understand and learn. (i step down off my soap box)

Ro

Re: GNRH and Lutalyse

Maybe I'll learn to keep my mouth shut at some point, but there is a bit of free time at the moment and I believe in educating or at least prompting discussions where I can. A quick note from a mod, or anyone else, that they really would wish I wouldn't and I will go back to lurking and keeping my mouth shut. ;o)Out of curiosity, are you against the use of Lutalyse in the case of a cow with metritis after calving? We had a wonderful 8 year old Jersey cow who ended up barren because we did not catch her metritis in time. It went untreated. The simplest and least invasive course is one to two shots (two if the infection still is there a few weeks later) of Lutalyse to empty the uterus of the infection. It opens the cervix and expels the contents of the uterus (which is why it will abort a cow that is pregnant). Hoolie did not get treated and had to be sold a year and a half later as an open barren cow. One or two shots of a hormone (which is the same as the hormones found in the cow's body) could have given Hoolie a longer life. I should mention that our herd's reproductive health, overall, is generally pretty stellar. At herd health checks the vet was generally commenting on just how healthy and clean the cows' reproductive health was. One reason we don't catch thing like Hoolie's issue early enough. We also always relied on the vet to administer lutalyse if it was warranted as needed. We now have a bottle on hand, just in case. It sat for over two years before it was used. I used it on a goat who had been in labor and then stalled with the cervix closing with the dead kid stuck behind it. I used the lutalyse to open the cervix back up so we could get the dead kid out. It was a decision that was not made lightly. Vercua's health and safety were our main concern though. That was our 173rd kidding on the farm and the first time we even considered the use of Lutalyse.Or how about a cystic cow? Just cull her? Carina was cystic as a heifer, a rapid cycler. She finally settled to a bull who could breed her multiple times and break the cysts each time. Settled back the first year first service (AI). Settled back the second time first service (AI). Then she went on to be cystic in her third lactation again. We opted to use GNRH and lutalyse to break it up so she could settle. An unfortunate side effect was the twins she settled with, but she settled. Our first time using GNRH and I'm not sure we would go that route again. A (stray) bull had been running with the herd for over a month when we had the vet check her and she still did not settle until after the series of shots. Maybe if we had waited long enough the bull might have settled her, but she was very worn down after rapid cycling for two months straight and it does do damage to the uterine health to be cystic that long as well as her overall condition. A cow in heat, especially a cow like Carina was, spends most of their time out on pasture chasing other cows, being ridden and not grazing or resting. Cull the cow? Or give her another chance by utilizing artificial hormones once or twice in her lifetime?Where is the line drawn? Do you not offer/sell milk when a cow is in heat because her level of hormones is risen above it normal resting level? Or is it only when the rise is caused by artificial hormones?Everyone who drinks raw milk should know how their farmer operates and why. The why is the important part. Ask why. Ask them to explain their choices. If you don't like them, start up a discussion with the farmer about your concerns, but keep in mind that the person who actually does the day to day labor, might just have an understanding about a situation that you are not aware of. There may be a valid reason for doing what they do. If, after your discussion, the farmer is set in their ways and isn't interested in considering things from another point of view, and you are simply not comfortable with their way of farming, then seek a farmer who operates the way you would prefer. RoseannaJourney's End JerseysMorning Mist Herdville, OHDost Thou Have Milk?Jerseys, Jersey/Norwegian Reds, Boers, Nubians and crossbreedshttp://www.freewebs .com/journeysend jerseyshttp://www.freewebs .com/morningmist herd

No virus found in this incoming message.Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.10/1996 - Release Date: 03/11/09 20:42:00

[Guest guest]

Lutalyse and GNRH are being used as a reproductive band-aide. to use it to treat a cystic cow or a cow with metritis etc, is an occasional use. But most of your milk comes from large herds now 1000 cow all the way up to 10,000 cow dairy's.This is not a natural hormone this is a synthetic hormone just like rBST. A sync program is very common place in these herds. First shot of Lute to every fresh cow at 42 days post calving is very common regardless of infection. This is called a pre sync ovsync program. Where every cow is synced and time A I if not in heat. This reduces breeder error on the farm and makes sure every cow has a recorded heat and breeding before 75 days fresh. The vets make a killing on drug sales. on a 2000 cow herd you can have anywhere around 300 to 400 cows at different stages of lactation on hormone shots. As far as it

being a natural safe naturally existing hormone Roseanne, I don't know anywhere on a cow that says should NOT be handled by women of child bearing age because could cause miscarriage or abortion. these hormones are being used at high doses forcing cows respond.Subject: Re: Re: GNRH and LutalyseTo: RawDairy Date: Thursday, March 12, 2009, 3:45 PM

Roseanna

thank you and well put. we have one milk customer that decided not to buy or milk in this winter because they are not on pasture. Well, HELLO, look around! kinda hard to graze when the grass in under 6+ inches of snow! so yes, we do supplement with corn. We would rather the cow have some grain with her hay and be conditioned to calve, then be skin and bones, calve, and try to recondition herself AND produce milk! This gal, as to my understanding, is almost a right wing extremist! a customer that i may not particularly want. If you are NOT a producer and you don't have an understanding of the farmer's practices then ye, by all means, then go with out or find another farmer. But IF you want to learn about the 'why's' of a farmer then, by all means, educate and ask the farmer.

She doesn't buy direct from us but thru someone else. My question for her would be, how much are you willing to pay for the milk? I bet if she found out how much we would have to charge for milk if we bought organic hay she wouldn't buy that either.

If consumers don't know and just ASSUME, well, we all know what happens when you ASSUME something, and this is usually true. Each farmer/farm is different for different reasons. We are more than willing to educate people. BUT they also have to be willing to understand and learn. (i step down off my soap box)

Ro

Re: GNRH and Lutalyse

Maybe I'll learn to keep my mouth shut at some point, but there is a bit of free time at the moment and I believe in educating or at least prompting discussions where I can. A quick note from a mod, or anyone else, that they really would wish I wouldn't and I will go back to lurking and keeping my mouth shut. ;o)Out of curiosity, are you against the use of Lutalyse in the case of a cow with metritis after calving? We had a wonderful 8 year old Jersey cow who ended up barren because we did not catch her metritis in time. It went untreated. The simplest and least invasive course is one to two shots (two if the infection still is there a few weeks later) of Lutalyse to empty the uterus of the infection. It opens the cervix and expels the contents of the uterus (which is why it will abort a cow that is pregnant). Hoolie did not get treated and had to be sold a year and a half later as an open barren cow. One or two shots of a hormone (which is the same as the hormones found in the cow's body) could have given Hoolie a longer life. I should mention that our herd's reproductive health, overall, is generally pretty stellar. At herd health checks the vet was generally commenting on just how healthy and clean the cows' reproductive health was. One reason we don't catch thing like Hoolie's issue early enough. We also always relied on the vet to administer lutalyse if it was warranted as needed. We now have a bottle on hand, just in case. It sat for over two years before it was used. I used it on a goat who had been in labor and then stalled with the cervix closing with the dead kid stuck behind it. I used the lutalyse to open the cervix back up so we could get the dead kid out. It was a decision that was not made lightly. Vercua's health and safety were our main concern though. That was our 173rd kidding on the farm and the first time we even considered the use of Lutalyse.Or how about a cystic cow? Just cull her? Carina was cystic as a heifer, a rapid cycler. She finally settled to a bull who could breed her multiple times and break the cysts each time. Settled back the first year first service (AI). Settled back the second time first service (AI). Then she went on to be cystic in her third lactation again. We opted to use GNRH and lutalyse to break it up so she could settle. An unfortunate side effect was the twins she settled with, but she settled. Our first time using GNRH and I'm not sure we would go that route again. A (stray) bull had been running with the herd for over a month when we had the vet check her and she still did not settle until after the series of shots. Maybe if we had waited long enough the bull might have settled her, but she was very worn down after rapid cycling for two months straight and it does do damage to the uterine health to be cystic that long as well as her overall condition. A cow in heat, especially a cow like Carina was, spends most of their time out on pasture chasing other cows, being ridden and not grazing or resting. Cull the cow? Or give her another chance by utilizing artificial hormones once or twice in her lifetime?Where is the line drawn? Do you not offer/sell milk when a cow is in heat because her level of hormones is risen above it normal resting level? Or is it only when the rise is caused by artificial hormones?Everyone who drinks raw milk should know how their farmer operates and why. The why is the important part. Ask why. Ask them to explain their choices. If you don't like them, start up a discussion with the farmer about your concerns, but keep in mind that the person who actually does the day to day labor, might just have an understanding about a situation that you are not aware of. There may be a valid reason for doing what they do. If, after your discussion, the farmer is set in their ways and isn't interested in considering things from another point of view, and you are simply not comfortable with their way of farming, then seek a farmer who operates the way you would prefer. RoseannaJourney's End JerseysMorning Mist Herdville, OHDost Thou Have Milk?Jerseys, Jersey/Norwegian Reds, Boers, Nubians and crossbreedshttp://www.freewebs .com/journeysend jerseyshttp://www.freewebs .com/morningmist herd

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[Guest guest]

Edwin,

Can I have permission to use this article below in my blog? If you'd like I can make you anonymous, I have a small readership of mostly family, but they think we are nuts for drinking raw milk, yet most of them consider themselves healthy eaters. Thank you!

Barb in Colorado

GNRH and Lutalyse

I'm sure Cheyenne and others don't intend to paint all conventional farmers with one paint brush. If a non-certified-organic farmer is farming responsibly by organic principles but simply has not gone to the effort and cost to get certified, I know that I, for one, would feel he is one of us, striving for the same cause, producing the same product, just without the paper trail and audit to prove it. Salatin of Polyface farm is a prime example of this type of organic-yet-not-certified farmer.

The disgraceful and unethical actions that Cheyenne is referring to is when a conventional fellow tries to green wash his product by playing on the ignorance of the consumer.

GNRH and Lutalyse are two powerful reproductive hormones that are in extremely common use in conventional dairy. Lutalyse is so powerful an estrus stimulant that If a dairyman by mistake injects a pregnant cow with as little as 5ml, she will abort her calf and be in estrus within 72 hrs even if she had been far along in her pregnancy. In a common ovulation synchronization program a cow who is not pregnant will receive up to four hormone shots for every time she is bred.

How do I know ? I farmed for more than 15 years as a conventional dairyman. Believe me its true. Probably 80-85% of conventional cows are managed this way. Yet their milk may be sold as hormone free.

I know a conventional dairyman who is direct marketing his milk as "Hormone Free" because he do not use Monsanto's rBGH (recumbent Bovine Growth Hormone). When I asked this fellow if he uses the reproductive hormones GNRH and Lutalyse , he admitted that "yes, he still does use those."

So to the consumer,

What does hormone free mean? It usually means the milk is free from the one hormone that you are educated enough to ask about, rBGH or rBST. The ones you don't know about,?.... they only hope you don't find out about.

If your farmer is not certified organic, you better ask him point blank if he is using the reproductive hormones GNRH & Lutalyse.

Keep your eyes open!

Edwin Shank

Shankstead EcoFarmHome of The Family Cow LLC 3854 Olde Scotland RoadChambersburg PA 17202

[Guest guest]

Edwin,

Can I have permission to use this article below in my blog? If you'd like I can make you anonymous, I have a small readership of mostly family, but they think we are nuts for drinking raw milk, yet most of them consider themselves healthy eaters. Thank you!

Barb in Colorado

GNRH and Lutalyse

I'm sure Cheyenne and others don't intend to paint all conventional farmers with one paint brush. If a non-certified-organic farmer is farming responsibly by organic principles but simply has not gone to the effort and cost to get certified, I know that I, for one, would feel he is one of us, striving for the same cause, producing the same product, just without the paper trail and audit to prove it. Salatin of Polyface farm is a prime example of this type of organic-yet-not-certified farmer.

The disgraceful and unethical actions that Cheyenne is referring to is when a conventional fellow tries to green wash his product by playing on the ignorance of the consumer.

GNRH and Lutalyse are two powerful reproductive hormones that are in extremely common use in conventional dairy. Lutalyse is so powerful an estrus stimulant that If a dairyman by mistake injects a pregnant cow with as little as 5ml, she will abort her calf and be in estrus within 72 hrs even if she had been far along in her pregnancy. In a common ovulation synchronization program a cow who is not pregnant will receive up to four hormone shots for every time she is bred.

How do I know ? I farmed for more than 15 years as a conventional dairyman. Believe me its true. Probably 80-85% of conventional cows are managed this way. Yet their milk may be sold as hormone free.

I know a conventional dairyman who is direct marketing his milk as "Hormone Free" because he do not use Monsanto's rBGH (recumbent Bovine Growth Hormone). When I asked this fellow if he uses the reproductive hormones GNRH and Lutalyse , he admitted that "yes, he still does use those."

So to the consumer,

What does hormone free mean? It usually means the milk is free from the one hormone that you are educated enough to ask about, rBGH or rBST. The ones you don't know about,?.... they only hope you don't find out about.

If your farmer is not certified organic, you better ask him point blank if he is using the reproductive hormones GNRH & Lutalyse.

Keep your eyes open!

Edwin Shank

Shankstead EcoFarmHome of The Family Cow LLC 3854 Olde Scotland RoadChambersburg PA 17202

[Guest guest]

Lutalyse and GNRH are being used as a reproductive band-aide. to use it to treat a cystic cow or a cow with metritis etc, is an occasional use. But most of your milk comes from large herds now 1000 cow all the way up to 10,000 cow dairy's.This is not a natural hormone this is a synthetic hormone just like rBST. A sync program is very common place in these herds. First shot of Lute to every fresh cow at 42 days post calving is very common regardless of infection. This is called a pre sync ovsync program. Where every cow is synced and time A I if not in heat. This reduces breeder error on the farm and makes sure every cow has a recorded heat and breeding before 75 days fresh. The vets make a killing on drug sales. on a 2000 cow herd you can have anywhere around 300 to 400 cows at different stages of lactation on hormone shots. As far as it

being a natural safe naturally existing hormone Roseanne, I don't know anywhere on a cow that says should NOT be handled by women of child bearing age because could cause miscarriage or abortion. these hormones are being used at high doses forcing cows respond.

Subject: Re: GNRH and LutalyseTo: RawDairy Date: Thursday, March 12, 2009, 4:42 PM

Edwin,

Can I have permission to use this article below in my blog? If you'd like I can make you anonymous, I have a small readership of mostly family, but they think we are nuts for drinking raw milk, yet most of them consider themselves healthy eaters. Thank you!

Barb in Colorado

GNRH and Lutalyse

I'm sure Cheyenne and others don't intend to paint all conventional farmers with one paint brush. If a non-certified- organic farmer is farming responsibly by organic principles but simply has not gone to the effort and cost to get certified, I know that I, for one, would feel he is one of us, striving for the same cause, producing the same product, just without the paper trail and audit to prove it. Salatin of Polyface farm is a prime example of this type of organic-yet- not-certified farmer.

The disgraceful and unethical actions that Cheyenne is referring to is when a conventional fellow tries to green wash his product by playing on the ignorance of the consumer.

GNRH and Lutalyse are two powerful reproductive hormones that are in extremely common use in conventional dairy. Lutalyse is so powerful an estrus stimulant that If a dairyman by mistake injects a pregnant cow with as little as 5ml, she will abort her calf and be in estrus within 72 hrs even if she had been far along in her pregnancy. In a common ovulation synchronization program a cow who is not pregnant will receive up to four hormone shots for every time she is bred.

How do I know ? I farmed for more than 15 years as a conventional dairyman. Believe me its true. Probably 80-85% of conventional cows are managed this way. Yet their milk may be sold as hormone free.

I know a conventional dairyman who is direct marketing his milk as "Hormone Free" because he do not use Monsanto's rBGH (recumbent Bovine Growth Hormone). When I asked this fellow if he uses the reproductive hormones GNRH and Lutalyse , he admitted that "yes, he still does use those."

So to the consumer,

What does hormone free mean? It usually means the milk is free from the one hormone that you are educated enough to ask about, rBGH or rBST. The ones you don't know about,?.... they only hope you don't find out about.

If your farmer is not certified organic, you better ask him point blank if he is using the reproductive hormones GNRH & Lutalyse.

Keep your eyes open!

Edwin Shank

Shankstead EcoFarmHome of The Family Cow LLC 3854 Olde Scotland RoadChambersburg PA 17202

[Guest guest]

Lutalyse and GNRH are being used as a reproductive band-aide. to use it to treat a cystic cow or a cow with metritis etc, is an occasional use. But most of your milk comes from large herds now 1000 cow all the way up to 10,000 cow dairy's.This is not a natural hormone this is a synthetic hormone just like rBST. A sync program is very common place in these herds. First shot of Lute to every fresh cow at 42 days post calving is very common regardless of infection. This is called a pre sync ovsync program. Where every cow is synced and time A I if not in heat. This reduces breeder error on the farm and makes sure every cow has a recorded heat and breeding before 75 days fresh. The vets make a killing on drug sales. on a 2000 cow herd you can have anywhere around 300 to 400 cows at different stages of lactation on hormone shots. As far as it

being a natural safe naturally existing hormone Roseanne, I don't know anywhere on a cow that says should NOT be handled by women of child bearing age because could cause miscarriage or abortion. these hormones are being used at high doses forcing cows respond.

Subject: Re: GNRH and LutalyseTo: RawDairy Date: Thursday, March 12, 2009, 4:42 PM

Edwin,

Can I have permission to use this article below in my blog? If you'd like I can make you anonymous, I have a small readership of mostly family, but they think we are nuts for drinking raw milk, yet most of them consider themselves healthy eaters. Thank you!

Barb in Colorado

GNRH and Lutalyse

I'm sure Cheyenne and others don't intend to paint all conventional farmers with one paint brush. If a non-certified- organic farmer is farming responsibly by organic principles but simply has not gone to the effort and cost to get certified, I know that I, for one, would feel he is one of us, striving for the same cause, producing the same product, just without the paper trail and audit to prove it. Salatin of Polyface farm is a prime example of this type of organic-yet- not-certified farmer.

The disgraceful and unethical actions that Cheyenne is referring to is when a conventional fellow tries to green wash his product by playing on the ignorance of the consumer.

GNRH and Lutalyse are two powerful reproductive hormones that are in extremely common use in conventional dairy. Lutalyse is so powerful an estrus stimulant that If a dairyman by mistake injects a pregnant cow with as little as 5ml, she will abort her calf and be in estrus within 72 hrs even if she had been far along in her pregnancy. In a common ovulation synchronization program a cow who is not pregnant will receive up to four hormone shots for every time she is bred.

How do I know ? I farmed for more than 15 years as a conventional dairyman. Believe me its true. Probably 80-85% of conventional cows are managed this way. Yet their milk may be sold as hormone free.

I know a conventional dairyman who is direct marketing his milk as "Hormone Free" because he do not use Monsanto's rBGH (recumbent Bovine Growth Hormone). When I asked this fellow if he uses the reproductive hormones GNRH and Lutalyse , he admitted that "yes, he still does use those."

So to the consumer,

What does hormone free mean? It usually means the milk is free from the one hormone that you are educated enough to ask about, rBGH or rBST. The ones you don't know about,?.... they only hope you don't find out about.

If your farmer is not certified organic, you better ask him point blank if he is using the reproductive hormones GNRH & Lutalyse.

Keep your eyes open!

Edwin Shank

Shankstead EcoFarmHome of The Family Cow LLC 3854 Olde Scotland RoadChambersburg PA 17202

[Guest guest]

Edwin,

It certainly is not. I would hope the consumer would ask why the person does

what they do. If a person is led to believe that the use of artificial hormones

is always evil and has no place, their first reaction may be to run and not ask

questions. If someone asked us if we used artificial hormones we would of course

say we do. Always have.

Just to clarify. Nothing has been planted in the fields for about 6-7 years

now. We don't use commercial fertilizers nor chemicals. Though we put down lime

when it can be afforded. We use the manure from the herds. We don't need to worm

the cows because of the amount of land and pasture rotation (which my

grandfather did long before it was " the " thing to do). We do worm the goats,

though. Without the funds to goat fence the perimeter of 80 acres, we have to

keep them confined for part of everyday. I " herd " them them when theya re out.

Sit in my truck and watch the herd. Not quite as primitive as a shephard's crook

and some dogs. We have over 40 fenceline neighbors and goats out are not

welcomed. lol

We don't provide milk to customers except in the form of Goat's Milk Soap.

I figured since we consume raw milk ourselves being in the group was more than

acceptable. It was alos 3-5 years ago when I joined and I was trying to gain an

understanding of the way those who drink raw milk think. I have learned, but

that does not stop me from challenging their why fors.

Thanks! The line is my father's take on Got Milk? with our Quaker beliefs

thrown in.

Roseanna

Journey's End Jerseys

Morning Mist Herd

ville, OH

Dost Thou Have Milk?

Jerseys, Jersey/Norwegian Reds, Boers, Nubians and crossbreeds

http://www.freewebs.com/jourenysendjerseys {Has not been updated since we sold a

number of the girls}

http://www.freewebs.com/morningmistherd

>

> Roseanna

>

> I'm not against the use of Lutalyse in emergency health care

situations....just against those who make false claims about not using

artificial hormones when in fact they do. It's not ethical to mislead.

>

> I have no problem if you use Lut. GNRH, antibiotics, pour on dewormers, or GMO

corn and beans etc. Sounds like you are very careful and loving with your herd.

Maybe none of these things harm people at all....but maybe they do. Just be

sure to level with your customers. If they know, and are happy....no problem.

>

> Peace and Blessings from another Jersey Farmer .I love your " Doest thou have

milk? " line

>

> Edwin Shank

> Shankstead EcoFarm

> The Family Cow LLC

>

[Guest guest]

Edwin,

It certainly is not. I would hope the consumer would ask why the person does

what they do. If a person is led to believe that the use of artificial hormones

is always evil and has no place, their first reaction may be to run and not ask

questions. If someone asked us if we used artificial hormones we would of course

say we do. Always have.

Just to clarify. Nothing has been planted in the fields for about 6-7 years

now. We don't use commercial fertilizers nor chemicals. Though we put down lime

when it can be afforded. We use the manure from the herds. We don't need to worm

the cows because of the amount of land and pasture rotation (which my

grandfather did long before it was " the " thing to do). We do worm the goats,

though. Without the funds to goat fence the perimeter of 80 acres, we have to

keep them confined for part of everyday. I " herd " them them when theya re out.

Sit in my truck and watch the herd. Not quite as primitive as a shephard's crook

and some dogs. We have over 40 fenceline neighbors and goats out are not

welcomed. lol

We don't provide milk to customers except in the form of Goat's Milk Soap.

I figured since we consume raw milk ourselves being in the group was more than

acceptable. It was alos 3-5 years ago when I joined and I was trying to gain an

understanding of the way those who drink raw milk think. I have learned, but

that does not stop me from challenging their why fors.

Thanks! The line is my father's take on Got Milk? with our Quaker beliefs

thrown in.

Roseanna

Journey's End Jerseys

Morning Mist Herd

ville, OH

Dost Thou Have Milk?

Jerseys, Jersey/Norwegian Reds, Boers, Nubians and crossbreeds

http://www.freewebs.com/jourenysendjerseys {Has not been updated since we sold a

number of the girls}

http://www.freewebs.com/morningmistherd

>

> Roseanna

>

> I'm not against the use of Lutalyse in emergency health care

situations....just against those who make false claims about not using

artificial hormones when in fact they do. It's not ethical to mislead.

>

> I have no problem if you use Lut. GNRH, antibiotics, pour on dewormers, or GMO

corn and beans etc. Sounds like you are very careful and loving with your herd.

Maybe none of these things harm people at all....but maybe they do. Just be

sure to level with your customers. If they know, and are happy....no problem.

>

> Peace and Blessings from another Jersey Farmer .I love your " Doest thou have

milk? " line

>

> Edwin Shank

> Shankstead EcoFarm

> The Family Cow LLC

>

[Guest guest]

I very carefully used the terms artificial and synthetic. It mimics the

naturally occuring hormones that regulate the cows production (BST), her

cycling, and how her food is managed by her body.

Nope, since the equivilant of that 5ccs is already safely enclosed in the cow's

system and not concentrated in one small syringe, there is no need for the

warnings.

For those not aware, women who handled Lutalyse in the labs aborted simply from

breathing. It is a very powerful drug and should be used with great caution.

Roseanna

Journey's End Jerseys

Morning Mist Herd

ville, OH

Dost Thou Have Milk?

Jerseys, Jersey/Norwegian Reds, Boers, Nubians and crossbreeds

http://www.freewebs.com/journeysendjerseys

http://www.freewebs.com/morningmistherd

>

.. As far as it being a natural safe naturally existing hormone Roseanne, I don't

know anywhere on a cow that says should NOT be

> handled by women of child bearing age because could cause miscarriage or

abortion. these hormones are being used at high doses forcing cows respond.

>

[Guest guest]

I very carefully used the terms artificial and synthetic. It mimics the

naturally occuring hormones that regulate the cows production (BST), her

cycling, and how her food is managed by her body.

Nope, since the equivilant of that 5ccs is already safely enclosed in the cow's

system and not concentrated in one small syringe, there is no need for the

warnings.

For those not aware, women who handled Lutalyse in the labs aborted simply from

breathing. It is a very powerful drug and should be used with great caution.

Roseanna

Journey's End Jerseys

Morning Mist Herd

ville, OH

Dost Thou Have Milk?

Jerseys, Jersey/Norwegian Reds, Boers, Nubians and crossbreeds

http://www.freewebs.com/journeysendjerseys

http://www.freewebs.com/morningmistherd

>

.. As far as it being a natural safe naturally existing hormone Roseanne, I don't

know anywhere on a cow that says should NOT be

> handled by women of child bearing age because could cause miscarriage or

abortion. these hormones are being used at high doses forcing cows respond.

>

[Guest guest]

I almost mentioned the use of Lute to abort young heifers, but decided I didn't

want to open taht can of worms at this point.

Aborting animals is not something family has ever done lightly.

However, after this past summer with Nala, it is something we will consider

more strongly in the future.

We had a stray beef bull show up from the local sale barn (a fairly normal

occurance unfortunately). He settled 27 head, from our 9 year old cow down to

some 12-14 month old heifers. We aborted the youngest one but let the other two

keep their pregnancies. We figured he was Angus and we've never had trouble with

our Jersey heifers calving out Angus calves.

Nala freshened at 23 months old with the largest calf of the entire group. The

dead bull calf ahd to be pulled. She ended up with calving paralysis. A pinched

nerve. She was down for three weeks before she could stand again. She just about

died. We had the vet out and the vet said her body was shutting down and wasn't

sure why she was treating her, but we insisted. We've been more than willing to

go the extra mile for any of our animals (who else would treat a meat wether for

Listeriosis that requires shots every 4 hours for days on end?).

Had we gone ahead and aborted her when the vet confirmed her pregnant, we could

have avoided all the difficulties. She has permanent scarring and permanent

damage. Peaked at 40 pounds a day even though she wasn't milked for the first 3

weeks post calving. I just AIed her a week and a half ago with a smaller

statured Jersey bull.

She was lucky.

Roseanna

Journey's End Jerseys

Morning Mist Herd

ville, OH

Dost Thou Have Milk?

Jerseys, Jersey/Norwegian Reds, Boers, Nubians and crossbreeds

http://www.freewebs.com/journeysendjerseys

http://www.freewebs.com/morningmistherd

>

> Absolutely! I've been pondering that issue all morning milking my herd of

holsteins. Is lutalyse that terrible when used to benefit the life of my cows?

When one is too young to carry a calf to full term and needs to abort? Or one

that needs help cleaning? L

>

[Guest guest]

I almost mentioned the use of Lute to abort young heifers, but decided I didn't

want to open taht can of worms at this point.

Aborting animals is not something family has ever done lightly.

However, after this past summer with Nala, it is something we will consider

more strongly in the future.

We had a stray beef bull show up from the local sale barn (a fairly normal

occurance unfortunately). He settled 27 head, from our 9 year old cow down to

some 12-14 month old heifers. We aborted the youngest one but let the other two

keep their pregnancies. We figured he was Angus and we've never had trouble with

our Jersey heifers calving out Angus calves.

Nala freshened at 23 months old with the largest calf of the entire group. The

dead bull calf ahd to be pulled. She ended up with calving paralysis. A pinched

nerve. She was down for three weeks before she could stand again. She just about

died. We had the vet out and the vet said her body was shutting down and wasn't

sure why she was treating her, but we insisted. We've been more than willing to

go the extra mile for any of our animals (who else would treat a meat wether for

Listeriosis that requires shots every 4 hours for days on end?).

Had we gone ahead and aborted her when the vet confirmed her pregnant, we could

have avoided all the difficulties. She has permanent scarring and permanent

damage. Peaked at 40 pounds a day even though she wasn't milked for the first 3

weeks post calving. I just AIed her a week and a half ago with a smaller

statured Jersey bull.

She was lucky.

Roseanna

Journey's End Jerseys

Morning Mist Herd

ville, OH

Dost Thou Have Milk?

Jerseys, Jersey/Norwegian Reds, Boers, Nubians and crossbreeds

http://www.freewebs.com/journeysendjerseys

http://www.freewebs.com/morningmistherd

>

> Absolutely! I've been pondering that issue all morning milking my herd of

holsteins. Is lutalyse that terrible when used to benefit the life of my cows?

When one is too young to carry a calf to full term and needs to abort? Or one

that needs help cleaning? L

>

[Guest guest]

Yes, but if your " education " is with ASSUMPTIONS like below, that without

grain the cow will be skin and bones,etc., you aren't educating, just repeating

the same old tired line. Feeding forage only works great, but it requires skill

and QUALITY forage.Maybe your cow/s would be skin and bones, but don't tell

people it's impossible, because I'm helping farmers all over the US get off the

grain train.

Maybe consumers don't all want to pay for quality milk yet, but the time is

fast approaching, as their health falls apart from eating empty food, that they

are realizing it's far cheaper to eat well than to pay insurance and medical

bills.

How much is not getting sick and diseased worth? How about not getting cancer?

Yes, I know, it's hard to avoid some of this when our neighbors douse everything

with poison and pollute soil, air, and water. War chemicals that were designed

to kill people, that are now used on farms, still do what they were created to

do. Still, many folks have had immense improvement when switching to organic

food. And once you eat organic produce you will never go back to the garbage in

the store.

My grass fed milk is in a study right now comparing different milks.

Unfortunately, they allow some grain (<5lbs/day)in the grass fed group which

will skew the numbers, but still the grass fed category came in far ahead of the

other groups in the preliminary data. Ever hear of the benefits of omega 3? We

don't have to eat fish to get it, it's in my grass fed milk. There is supposed

to be more tests over the course of the year, but it proves what Sally Fallon

and Jo have said all along. Grass fed is FAR superior to grain. I also

hope they will separate my milk out so we can see the true spread between grass

and even minimal grain.

I don't write for the sake of the naysayers, or to argue, but for those that

want to know what's possible. " I can't " isn't in my vocabulary, but

unfortunately, it has become one of conventional ag's favorite words. I'm going

to change that!!!

Cheyenne

>

we do supplement with corn. We would rather the cow have some grain with her hay

and be conditioned to calve, then be skin and bones, calve, and try to

recondition herself AND produce milk! This gal, as to my understanding, is

almost a right wing extremist! a customer that i may not particularly want. If

you are NOT a producer and you don't have an understanding of the farmer's

practices then ye, by all means, then go with out or find another farmer. But IF

you want to learn about the 'why's' of a farmer then, by all means, educate and

ask the farmer.

>

> She doesn't buy direct from us but thru someone else. My question for her

would be, how much are you willing to pay for the milk? I bet if she found out

how much we would have to charge for milk if we bought organic hay she wouldn't

buy that either.

>

> If consumers don't know and just ASSUME, well, we all know what happens when

you ASSUME something, and this is usually true. Each farmer/farm is different

for different reasons. We are more than willing to educate people. BUT they also

have to be willing to understand and learn. (i step down off my soap box)

> Ro

>

>

[Guest guest]

Yes, but if your " education " is with ASSUMPTIONS like below, that without

grain the cow will be skin and bones,etc., you aren't educating, just repeating

the same old tired line. Feeding forage only works great, but it requires skill

and QUALITY forage.Maybe your cow/s would be skin and bones, but don't tell

people it's impossible, because I'm helping farmers all over the US get off the

grain train.

Maybe consumers don't all want to pay for quality milk yet, but the time is

fast approaching, as their health falls apart from eating empty food, that they

are realizing it's far cheaper to eat well than to pay insurance and medical

bills.

How much is not getting sick and diseased worth? How about not getting cancer?

Yes, I know, it's hard to avoid some of this when our neighbors douse everything

with poison and pollute soil, air, and water. War chemicals that were designed

to kill people, that are now used on farms, still do what they were created to

do. Still, many folks have had immense improvement when switching to organic

food. And once you eat organic produce you will never go back to the garbage in

the store.

My grass fed milk is in a study right now comparing different milks.

Unfortunately, they allow some grain (<5lbs/day)in the grass fed group which

will skew the numbers, but still the grass fed category came in far ahead of the

other groups in the preliminary data. Ever hear of the benefits of omega 3? We

don't have to eat fish to get it, it's in my grass fed milk. There is supposed

to be more tests over the course of the year, but it proves what Sally Fallon

and Jo have said all along. Grass fed is FAR superior to grain. I also

hope they will separate my milk out so we can see the true spread between grass

and even minimal grain.

I don't write for the sake of the naysayers, or to argue, but for those that

want to know what's possible. " I can't " isn't in my vocabulary, but

unfortunately, it has become one of conventional ag's favorite words. I'm going

to change that!!!

Cheyenne

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we do supplement with corn. We would rather the cow have some grain with her hay

and be conditioned to calve, then be skin and bones, calve, and try to

recondition herself AND produce milk! This gal, as to my understanding, is

almost a right wing extremist! a customer that i may not particularly want. If

you are NOT a producer and you don't have an understanding of the farmer's

practices then ye, by all means, then go with out or find another farmer. But IF

you want to learn about the 'why's' of a farmer then, by all means, educate and

ask the farmer.

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> She doesn't buy direct from us but thru someone else. My question for her

would be, how much are you willing to pay for the milk? I bet if she found out

how much we would have to charge for milk if we bought organic hay she wouldn't

buy that either.

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> If consumers don't know and just ASSUME, well, we all know what happens when

you ASSUME something, and this is usually true. Each farmer/farm is different

for different reasons. We are more than willing to educate people. BUT they also

have to be willing to understand and learn. (i step down off my soap box)

> Ro

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[Guest guest]

And if it makes pregnant women abort? Oh, I know, it just disappears when it

goes into the cow, right? How much is excreted in the milk? And we wonder why

fertility/pregnancy issues and miscarriages are so common in humans now? At what

point do we question what we are doing? Especially, when every drug eventually

gets banned. Maybe I'm just looking at it all wrong. Think how much $ this makes

for the medical industry and the drug companies that cause all the problems in

the first place.

Ever heard Doc Dettloff talk? He's a vet that practiced for 36 years and still

works for Organic Valley. He said that nearly every(it might have been every

drug)drug he used 40 years ago is now BANNED!!! They were " safe " by the FDA

until they could no longer cover up the damage.

I suppose you could argue they finally got it right, but then we'd have to

look at Vioxx and it's safety, and a whole host of other drugs recently gone

bad.

Cheyenne

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> Absolutely! I've been pondering that issue all morning milking my herd of

holsteins. Is lutalyse that terrible when used to benefit the life of my cows?

When one is too young to carry a calf to full term and needs to abort? Or one

that needs help cleaning? L

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