talk show?

[Guest guest]

DITTO TO THIS!!! The world needs to know about the illness & the symptoms

not specifically where we got sick but just why. Education is the key then

people

will understand. I believe more and more that many illnesses are

environmentally

related.

Sue

why does it have to be approached as a " sick bldg " problem. I think it

should be approached as a health problem. Not putting blame on any industries.

Just informing the public, putting it WAY out there. Maybe starting to raise

funds for more studies. I, for one, believe as some of you do, many other

illnesses such as cancer, may be caused by the toxic overload.

Let people know about MCS, or EI or whatever else it's called. felice

[Guest guest]

why does it have to be approached as a " sick bldg " problem. I think it should be

approached as a health problem. Not putting blame on any industries. Just

informing the public, putting it WAY out there. Maybe starting to raise funds

for more studies. I, for one, believe as some of you do, many other illnesses

such as cancer, may be caused by the toxic overload.

Let people know about MCS, or EI or whatever else it's called. felice

[Guest guest]

It would be nice if medical Dr's could just call it genes instead of

psychological. Than at least maybe they would focus on a treatment.

Very difficult issue though, unfortunately you can't really diagnose

an illness like this unless you implicate the cause. That's probably

why they prefer to shove it under the rug.

If it was discovered that some chemical in the environment caused your

illness would you be charitable enough to wave any liability towards

the manufacture? Unfortunately most wouldn't. I know I would prefer

to put the screws to a certain pest control operator. Problem is I

couldn't prove my injury was specifically due to his negligence.

It would be nice if Bush could just give industry a waiver like he did

the airlines in 9/11. But than again the American taxpayer had to pay

for this. So really the easiest solution unfortunately is just let

the carnage continue.

On Fri, 27 Oct 2006 09:27:10 -0500 (CDT), you wrote:

>why does it have to be approached as a " sick bldg " problem. I think it should

be approached as a health problem. Not putting blame on any industries. Just

informing the public, putting it WAY out there. Maybe starting to raise funds

for more studies. I, for one, believe as some of you do, many other illnesses

such as cancer, may be caused by the toxic overload.

>

>Let people know about MCS, or EI or whatever else it's called. felice

[Guest guest]

On 10/29/06, Christ <antares41_41@...> wrote:

>

> It would be nice if medical Dr's could just call it genes instead of

> psychological. Than at least maybe they would focus on a treatment.

Do you live in Europe? I live in the USA, and what would happen here is that

blame the victim mentality. Probably what would happen is that 24% of us who

are slower to eliminate mold toxins would find it very hard to get health

insurance, or more ominously, eventually, jobs.

Very difficult issue though, unfortunately you can't really diagnose

> an illness like this unless you implicate the cause. That's probably

> why they prefer to shove it under the rug.

You got it. They figure its less expensive to simply eliminate the

complainers, because then they can poison the remaining 76% and so the

levels of mold toxins in workplaces would continue to go up and up over

time. Those toxins are just as TOXIC to everybody, but in some of us, they

leave the body slower, so everybody would still be being poisoned..

though..

If it was discovered that some chemical in the environment caused your

> illness would you be charitable enough to wave any liability towards

> the manufacture? Unfortunately most wouldn't.

What I am expecting is some kind of blanket waiver that people will have to

sign before they get a job. Then, it will be their free choice whether they

want that job or not. If they want the job they will have to agree that they

might be poisoned, and accept the consequences of their own free will.

Of course, sleeping in parks is illegal, and everything costs money,

though.. so I think the free will premise is a pack of lies.. but what else

is new, its one of the lies that we live by..

>

> >why does it have to be approached as a " sick bldg " problem. I think it

> should be approached as a health problem. Not putting blame on any

> industries. Just informing the public, putting it WAY out there.

What do you think people have been doing for years now? Is it working? NO!

Maybe starting to raise funds for more studies.

So you are saying that even though you are sick, and you know how this

effects yourself firsthand, that this country should - instead of making it

a national priority to end the poisoning of you and me and millions of other

people like us, should instead formally state that everything NOW is 'okay'

and then, leave it up to 'whoever', the private sector, maybe, the insurance

or building or real estate industrys, maybe.. to fund, out f the goodness of

their hearts, more studies, which might take ten or fifteen years to

complete? I don't know about you, but in my life, I have paid hundreds of

thousands of doallrs in taxes.. WHO DOES THAT MONEY GO TO AND WHAT FOR IF IT

ISN'T FOR IMPORTANT THINGS LIKE THIS?

We all know what it goes for.. Smart bombs for dumb people.. etc. ad

infinitum, the biggest organized gravy train in the world..

And unfortunately, it also goes into stifling the truth, these

days..officially..

So I think that as long as there are people trying to destroy the

professional careers of any medical professional who tells the truth about

this problem, we will have problems. I think that this whole issue will just

continue to be part of the war in Washington that is being waged on

everyday, working people in America. We are the collateral damage.

Until that changes, there won't be change.. Until we live in a real, and not

a staged, democracy.

[Guest guest]

>

>Do you live in Europe? I live in the USA, and what would happen here is that

>blame the victim mentality. Probably what would happen is that 24% of us who

>are slower to eliminate mold toxins would find it very hard to get health

>insurance, or more ominously, eventually, jobs.

My thinking is that they could treat the disease, or give us the tools

we need to treat ourselves and it would be a non issue.

>You got it. They figure its less expensive to simply eliminate the

>complainers, because then they can poison the remaining 76% and so the

>levels of mold toxins in workplaces would continue to go up and up over

>time. Those toxins are just as TOXIC to everybody, but in some of us, they

>leave the body slower, so everybody would still be being poisoned..

>though..

I think us moldies might hit the 1% of the population if were lucky.

To the other 99% it's a non issue because they have no idea what it's

like to be sick like us and will probably never have to worry about

it.

>What I am expecting is some kind of blanket waiver that people will have to

>sign before they get a job. Then, it will be their free choice whether they

>want that job or not. If they want the job they will have to agree that they

>might be poisoned, and accept the consequences of their own free will.

If the disease was recognized and we had the tools necessary to

safeguard our health this would be a non issue.

>

>So you are saying that even though you are sick, and you know how this

>effects yourself firsthand, that this country should - instead of making it

>a national priority to end the poisoning of you and me and millions of other

>people like us, should instead formally state that everything NOW is 'okay'>and

then, leave it up to 'whoever', the private sector, maybe, the insurance

>or building or real estate industrys, maybe.. to fund, out f the goodness of

>their hearts, more studies, which might take ten or fifteen years to

>complete?

I never said this! I am constantly harping on the people who's job it

is to get up off of their lame rears and recognize this epidemic for

what it is and treat US the VICTIMS.

> I don't know about you, but in my life, I have paid hundreds of

>thousands of doallrs in taxes..

I wish I made enough to have paid that much in taxes!!

> WHO DOES THAT MONEY GO TO AND WHAT FOR IF IT

>ISN'T FOR IMPORTANT THINGS LIKE THIS?

I have no argument here this is one of the few things I think our tax

dollars should be spent on. PUBLIC HEALTH

>

>We all know what it goes for.. Smart bombs for dumb people.. etc. ad

>infinitum, the biggest organized gravy train in the world..

>

I think I am probably one of those dumb people, I do love all of the

cool military hardware! I feel safe knowing nobody is going to

overthrow our government and put us into concentration camps. It's

good to know we have lots of paranoid republicans running things.

Peace is won though strength not weakness.

>And unfortunately, it also goes into stifling the truth, these

>days..officially..

>

>So I think that as long as there are people trying to destroy the

>professional careers of any medical professional who tells the truth about

>this problem.

I think the problem is that medical Dr's are truly ignorant for the

most part. They don't understand the basic principles of scientific

method so they blindly follow the extremely flawed concept when in

doubt it's psychological. If they understood scientific method they

would know it's a very tricky business basing theory's on the absence

of evidence when their is a much more likely cause they have turned a

blind eye to.

I do understand the balancing act though and how much some people

tend to exaggerate their symptoms for various reasons. So maybe it is

a dammed if you do and dammed if you don't situation. But being

sympathetic to their blindness doesn't help us one bit does it?

Also your labeled a quack if you think for yourself and question all

of the lies and propaganda that is fed down to you from the evil

empire I fondly refer to as the American Medical Ripoff's & Retard's.

So there is all of that pressure to not disturb the apple cart.

If they can't rely on these criminals for reliable information who can

they rely on??

The industry is highly compartmentalized so one hand never knows what

the other is doing. That way no one can be held accountable for all

of the fraud and deceit that comes out of this institution.

> we will have problems. I think that this whole issue will just

>continue to be part of the war in Washington that is being waged on

>everyday, working people in America. We are the collateral damage.

>

>Until that changes, there won't be change.. Until we live in a real, and not

>a staged, democracy.

I think it's more like democracy for those who can afford it. At least

for now the future is very scary with 6.5 billion people on this

planet. Things can't get much better with more people fighting over

less resources.

[Guest guest]

On 10/31/06, Christ <antares41_41@...> wrote:

>

>

>

> >

> >Do you live in Europe? I live in the USA, and what would happen here is

> that

> >blame the victim mentality. Probably what would happen is that 24% of us

> who

> >are slower to eliminate mold toxins would find it very hard to get health

> >insurance, or more ominously, eventually, jobs.

> My thinking is that they could treat the disease, or give us the tools

> we need to treat ourselves and it would be a non issue.

That IS the way it is in European countries with UNIVERSAL HEALTHCARE...

However, in the USA, its completely different.. In fact, insurance companies

in the US are aggressively defending their 'right' to genetically

discriminate, insisting that they could not insure the public profitably if

they are not allowed to utilize any and all information that is available.

Such as genetic information, such as who your parents, grandparents

were/are, and what illnesses they have/had. And the results of any genetic

testing.

In fact, many experts believe that genetic testing and private insurance are

mutually incompatible.

Because the insurance companies will refuse to cover people who admitted

that they had genetic conditions and would use language in their

applications to deny payment to anyone who had knowledge of such a genetic

predisposition, or something like a relative's dying of a possibly genetic

condition, and who didn't divulge it.

>You got it. They figure its less expensive to simply eliminate the

> >complainers, because then they can poison the remaining 76% and so the

> >levels of mold toxins in workplaces would continue to go up and up over

> >time. Those toxins are just as TOXIC to everybody, but in some of us,

> they

> >leave the body slower, so everybody would still be being poisoned..

> >though..

I think us moldies might hit the 1% of the population if were lucky.

> To the other 99% it's a non issue because they have no idea what it's

> like to be sick like us and will probably never have to worry about

> it.

I think the percentage of people with mold illness is much higher but those

people don't realize that mold is what has made them ill. They have

'allergies', CFS, ADHD, arthritis, dementia, or any of a host of other

illnesses.. But those diagnoses describe the symptoms and not the underlying

cause...

>What I am expecting is some kind of blanket waiver that people will have to

> >sign before they get a job. Then, it will be their free choice whether

> they

> >want that job or not. If they want the job they will have to agree that

> they

> >might be poisoned, and accept the consequences of their own free will.

> If the disease was recognized and we had the tools necessary to

> safeguard our health this would be a non issue.

> >

> >So you are saying that even though you are sick, and you know how this

> >effects yourself firsthand, that this country should - instead of making

> it

> >a national priority to end the poisoning of you and me and millions of

> other

> >people like us, should instead formally state that everything NOW is

> 'okay'>and then, leave it up to 'whoever', the private sector, maybe, the

> insurance

> >or building or real estate industrys, maybe.. to fund, out f the goodness

> of

> >their hearts, more studies, which might take ten or fifteen years to

> >complete?

> I never said this! I am constantly harping on the people who's job it

> is to get up off of their lame rears and recognize this epidemic for

> what it is and treat US the VICTIMS.

Sure.. Yes, but unfortunately they will have to stick their necks out to do

that if they make the mold connection right now.

> I don't know about you, but in my life, I have paid hundreds of

> >thousands of doallrs in taxes..

> I wish I made enough to have paid that much in taxes!!

Unless you are very young, if you look at your lifetime earnings and the

amount of taxes you pay, its typically 1/4 to even 1/2 So, most people have

aid a lot in taxes..

I saw a good graph yesterday on the US government's research expenditures..

See

http://www.nytimes.com/imagepages/2006/10/29/business/20061030_ENERGY_GRAPHIC_2.\

html

From that it looks like healthcare research is doing well compared to energy

research.. but military R & D still dwarves all the others..

> WHO DOES THAT MONEY GO TO AND WHAT FOR IF IT

> >ISN'T FOR IMPORTANT THINGS LIKE THIS?

> I have no argument here this is one of the few things I think our tax

> dollars should be spent on. PUBLIC HEALTH

> >

> >We all know what it goes for.. Smart bombs for dumb people.. etc. ad

> >infinitum, the biggest organized gravy train in the world..

> >

> I think I am probably one of those dumb people, I do love all of the

> cool military hardware! I feel safe knowing nobody is going to

> overthrow our government and put us into concentration camps. It's

> good to know we have lots of paranoid republicans running things.

> Peace is won though strength not weakness.

>

> >And unfortunately, it also goes into stifling the truth, these

> >days..officially..

> >

> >So I think that as long as there are people trying to destroy the

> >professional careers of any medical professional who tells the truth

> about

> >this problem.

I think the problem is that medical Dr's are truly ignorant for the

> most part. They don't understand the basic principles of scientific

> method so they blindly follow the extremely flawed concept when in

> doubt it's psychological. If they understood scientific method they

> would know it's a very tricky business basing theory's on the absence

> of evidence when their is a much more likely cause they have turned a

> blind eye to.

I think that a lot of them see the connection but they also don't want to

get in trouble. These days they have to deal with the politics of everything

they do, and also getting paid by the insurers...

I do understand the balancing act though and how much some people

> tend to exaggerate their symptoms for various reasons. So maybe it is

> a dammed if you do and dammed if you don't situation. But being

> sympathetic to their blindness doesn't help us one bit does it?

Actually, a study that I have read used various statistical methods that

allowed them to estimate if people were exaggerating their symptoms.. and

they didn't/don't.

Also, IMO, people have a strong interest in the accuracy of their

treatment..and that of others..

I'll try to find the (first) references, but you can find the paper

yourself.. it was published at the Saratoga Springs mold conference.. I

think..

Also your labeled a quack if you think for yourself and question all

> of the lies and propaganda that is fed down to you from the evil

> empire I fondly refer to as the American Medical Ripoff's & Retard's.

> So there is all of that pressure to not disturb the apple cart.

I think that is a bit strong, but I agree that the system as it is does not

encourage change or learning..

If they can't rely on these criminals for reliable information who can

> they rely on??

We need electoral reform, basically the big corporations have way too much

power and its destroying this country.. in thousands of different ways..

>

> I think it's more like democracy for those who can afford it. At least

> for now the future is very scary with 6.5 billion people on this

> planet. Things can't get much better with more people fighting over

> less resources.

Actually, a tiny slice of already very rich and powerful people are getting

a bigger and bigger slice of the pie, leaving less and less for EVERYBODY

else..

, actually, in developed nation after developed nation, birh rates

have levelled off and now are going down..

In 20 or 30 years, if this continues, the population of the developed world

will level off.. This could happen in the developing world too, if we put

energy into ending poverty.. Did you know that just one month of the US

expenditure on the Iraq war would end all hunger on Earth for an entire

year?

Isn't that a better way of ending terrorism?

Also.. another sobering thought...

If we took the money we spend on another month of Iraq- a huge sum of money

that right now is mostly going to shadowy defense contractors.. a black hole

of spending - we could probably figure out a way to end our dependence on

fossil fuels like oil.. and everybody elses dependence as well... Energy

could be cheap, or even free.. thats the way science gives us things..

But then WE couldn't control all the energy.. (because people wouldnt need

oil.)

Nobody could.. Clearly, that threatens SOMEBODY more than the prospect of

having to fight a global, potentially nuclear war over oil that could

potentially destroy the human race, including millions of people who have

barely ever even heard about the United States..

You don't have to agree with me, but thats the way I see it..