Re: Odds of mold toxicity symptoms being reversible

October 29, 2006

,

You could be right, but than again when people move and still are sick

how do you know it's not something preexisting in the house and

mistook for contaminated items?

I won't know until I am able to build a structure that has no

cellulose to mold and try moving into it. My theory is I will improve

dramatically without the presence of active mold colonies.

Despite the presence of contaminated items.

I will share my findings with this group regardless if and when I can

achieve this goal.

Their is a good chance once I reach a new baseline in this type of

experiment and I will react to contaminated items.

But if I don't try my theory I will never know.

On Sat, 28 Oct 2006 16:59:46 -0000, you wrote:

>Everyones tolerence, sensitivity-, amount of toxin, spores present,

>varies to a great degree-It is worth it for those newly sick and

>doing their first move to take the most extreme measures to protect

>themselves- many people have made their first move only to find they

>must move again- this time without their " stuff " .-I did this myself

>because I did not have this support group to guide me- hopefully

>people will learn from our experience

>

October 29, 2006

I think people should realize that with poisons like mycotoxins, the damage

they do is I think, cumulative, and also that they store up inside of your

body, so they may continue to do damage for a long time after you leave a

moldy apt. Cumulative damage, not damage that will just magically go away,

poof. The reason you move is because you want to stop the further damage,

and in retrospect, for me it was that like any sane individual, you HOPE

against hope that it isn't permanent, but often it is..

Some cells regrow and repair themselves, some don't. Some kinds of damage

seem to propagate.. like cancer, when mycotoxins cause it, for example..

(Asp/pen cause a huge amount of cancer in this world.. thats not a subject

of debate anymore..)

Also, unless you can afford to throw ALL of your belongings out, the chances

are fairly high that there is a residual amount of mold in your stuff,

nomatter how much effort you expend in trying to get rid of it. I know this

because today I put on a fleece jacket for the first time in months that was

washed three times in detergent, bleach and later borax, and it still made

my wrists get red and smelled like mold..

Sure, they will always say, " If this is so important, why didn't you throw

it out? " but when you are UNEMPLOYED FROM THE MOLD you can't just replace

EVERYTHING YOU OWN.. either.. that would cost MUCH more money than you have

and its not very smart or prudent.. either..

In other words, you are dammed if you do and dammed if you don't...

October 30, 2006

OK, when you move, you will continue to be sick untill you recover-

most people do not recover immediatly- my own recovery times have

varried from 15 months to 2 weeks--If you move without your stuff-

take your cholestrymine, and do not start to feel better after a

month-you have narrowed it down to maybe the house- or maybe you

just need more time-only after you definitly feel better should you

bring only one item- totally cleaned ,at a time into the house-I can

help people with the cleaning of their stuff-if things are

contaminated with toxin, and you feel the burn coming from them- do

not bring anything into your new house- Yes-after you are totally

healed you may be able to tollerate some small contaminated items-

but why delay your recovery by exposure to replacable items?

>

> ,

> You could be right, but than again when people move and still are

sick

> how do you know it's not something preexisting in the house and

> mistook for contaminated items?

> I won't know until I am able to build a structure that has no

> cellulose to mold and try moving into it. My theory is I will

improve

> dramatically without the presence of active mold colonies.

> Despite the presence of contaminated items.

> I will share my findings with this group regardless if and when I

can

> achieve this goal.

> Their is a good chance once I reach a new baseline in this type of

> experiment and I will react to contaminated items.

> But if I don't try my theory I will never know.

>

> >

October 30, 2006

For me, as far as clothes go- polartec, " fleece " was the most

impossible clothing to clean- only Vulpex 12 hr soak worked for me-

considering the time and cost-new clothes may be in order- this

spring- my girlfriends donated clothing-I was dressed very well for

someone living in a tent

--- In , LiveSimply <quackadillian@...>

wrote:

>

> I think people should realize that with poisons like mycotoxins,

the damage

> they do is I think, cumulative, and also that they store up inside

of your

> body, so they may continue to do damage for a long time after you

leave a

> moldy apt. Cumulative damage, not damage that will just magically

go away,

> poof. The reason you move is because you want to stop the further

damage,

> and in retrospect, for me it was that like any sane individual,

you HOPE

> against hope that it isn't permanent, but often it is..

>

> Some cells regrow and repair themselves, some don't. Some kinds of

damage

> seem to propagate.. like cancer, when mycotoxins cause it, for

example..

> (Asp/pen cause a huge amount of cancer in this world.. thats not a

subject

> of debate anymore..)

>

> Also, unless you can afford to throw ALL of your belongings out,

the chances

> are fairly high that there is a residual amount of mold in your

stuff,

> nomatter how much effort you expend in trying to get rid of it. I

know this

> because today I put on a fleece jacket for the first time in

months that was

> washed three times in detergent, bleach and later borax, and it

still made

> my wrists get red and smelled like mold..

>

> Sure, they will always say, " If this is so important, why didn't

you throw

> it out? " but when you are UNEMPLOYED FROM THE MOLD you can't just

replace

> EVERYTHING YOU OWN.. either.. that would cost MUCH more money than

you have

> and its not very smart or prudent.. either..

>

> In other words, you are dammed if you do and dammed if you don't...

>

October 30, 2006

You can get pretty good new clothes at Walmart or

Kmart and new all leather shoes if you aren't

adverse to shopping at Walmart due to political

reasons. Right now I can't afford to not shop at

cheapest of places. I get complements on my

clothes many times and they are all from these

discount clothes. It makes throwing them away

easy or at least easier. By all means all

leather shoes at these stores.

--- carondeen <kdeanstudios@...> wrote:

> For me, as far as clothes go- polartec, " fleece "

> was the most

November 1, 2006

On Mon, 30 Oct 2006 16:02:08 -0000, you wrote:

> Yes-after you are totally

>healed you may be able to tollerate some small contaminated items-

>but why delay your recovery by exposure to replacable items?

>

I think the problem I have with the concept is it's too much of a

burden for an already hopelessly burdened victim.

There's no proof it's necessary. My biggest concern would be bringing

spores into an already water damaged building and reintroducing the

strains of mold that were so damaging to ones health in the first

place.

No moldie should be moving into a damp or water damaged building so

barring this their is no way spores can grow other than the air

conditioning system becoming contaminated with it. But neither of

these things happened when I contaminated my brothers house, 1.

because he had no active water problems, and 2. because without a

constant supply of spores the ac's apparently can't sustain harmful

mold species indefinably, or maybe they don't have the same propensity

to do harm in a 1500' house as they do in a 200 sq foot trailer.

I realize this may be playing with fire, clearly you don't want to

introduce fire hazards into your house there ticking time bombs.

Clearly the more spores you introduce the more the propensity for a

" fire " But by the same token I am just trying to figure out a way

that is REALISTIC to escape mold illness.

My theory is don't allow it to grow and it can't bother you.

Clearly one want's to limit cross contamination but what limits are

reasonable?

November 2, 2006

-Sorry I am not making myself clear,We are comparing apples and

oranges--I am talking about the residual toxin, that cannot be

washed away by any traditional means- many people on this site find

out too late that their stuff is contaminated with a strange

substance that cannot be cleaned and is making them sick- I am not

talking about spores- this toxin can bedevil you- make your friends

think you are crazy- and cause you to move multiple times- shave

your head- and live in the pool at the YMCA- , better safe than

sorry for the rest of your life

In , Christ <antares41_41@...>

wrote:

>

> On Mon, 30 Oct 2006 16:02:08 -0000, you wrote:

>

> > Yes-after you are totally

> >healed you may be able to tollerate some small contaminated items-

> >but why delay your recovery by exposure to replacable items?

> >

>

> I think the problem I have with the concept is it's too much of a

> burden for an already hopelessly burdened victim.

> There's no proof it's necessary. My biggest concern would be

bringing

> spores into an already water damaged building and reintroducing the

> strains of mold that were so damaging to ones health in the first

> place.

>

> No moldie should be moving into a damp or water damaged building so

> barring this their is no way spores can grow other than the air

> conditioning system becoming contaminated with it. But neither of

> these things happened when I contaminated my brothers house, 1.

> because he had no active water problems, and 2. because without a

> constant supply of spores the ac's apparently can't sustain harmful

> mold species indefinably, or maybe they don't have the same

propensity

> to do harm in a 1500' house as they do in a 200 sq foot trailer.

>

> I realize this may be playing with fire, clearly you don't want to

> introduce fire hazards into your house there ticking time bombs.

> Clearly the more spores you introduce the more the propensity for a

> " fire " But by the same token I am just trying to figure out a way

> that is REALISTIC to escape mold illness.

>

> My theory is don't allow it to grow and it can't bother you.

>

> Clearly one want's to limit cross contamination but what limits are

> reasonable?

>

November 3, 2006

,

I am just calling into question the whole practice, not saying your

wrong. We are comparing apples and apples. I am challenging the theory

of residue mycotoxins. I don't believe you can carry enough on your

belongings to be of major concern. My thinking is the emphasis should

be on ACTIVE mold colonies. I know how sensitive we are, it's

crippled me for 10 years now. But I have always had an ACTIVE mold

colony to implicate for this and never have I observed ONLY items

contaminated with mycotoxins causing me illness. My theory is that

they dissipate and break down like most other toxins rather rapidly

and without a constant source of new ones it's a non issue. I would

think their would be no hope for us otherwise. They certainly would be

everywhere and their would be no avoiding them if they persisted for

years or even months. I know some people think I'm stupid. But if

mycotoxins are as virulent and last as long as people suggest here

that would be quit extraordinary. Anytime I hear a claim that defy's

common sense or is as extraordinary as this I just want a little more

proof. Not telling people to base their actions on my theory and if

they do, they do it at their own risk.

On Thu, 02 Nov 2006 18:00:24 -0000, you wrote:

>-Sorry I am not making myself clear,We are comparing apples and

>oranges--I am talking about the residual toxin, that cannot be

>washed away by any traditional means- many people on this site find

>out too late that their stuff is contaminated with a strange

>substance that cannot be cleaned and is making them sick- I am not

>talking about spores- this toxin can bedevil you- make your friends

>think you are crazy- and cause you to move multiple times- shave

>your head- and live in the pool at the YMCA- , better safe than

>sorry for the rest of your life

>

November 3, 2006

As far as I know mycotoxins can last forever and they alone are what make

animals and humans sick. Thousands will fit on just the tip of a pin head!!!

When mold is disturbed or removed incorrectly those mycotoxins just float all

through a building and cling to everything. That's why they tell you to leave

everything behind. Only non porous things can be cleaned. I think some

people are more sensitive than others and can get a hit very easily. May take

more for others.

Sue