Guest guest Posted October 25, 2006 Report Share Posted October 25, 2006 Steve, I can't imagine that allergy symptoms would be as serious as symptoms you are having. As for season, have you had a hard freeze yet this year? Dr Rae, Dr from Dallas, says that mold gets worse, not better in the fall. He says things don't improve until your area gets a few days of a hard freeze. Maybe all the falling leaves decaying? He also said mold seems to like weather in the 50's. Not sure why that either. Could it be that air is more humid in the fall due to still alot of humidity and mold in soil from summer and air cooling off causes a higher humidity, or these to 'condense' in some way higher before it gets lower? I don't know. We have had a hard freeze here and humidity has dipped and things are feeling better in my home. It makes me want to move home but I'm sure I should not. I put 8 hours in at my office, and some work I turned in, my boss said was 'awsome'. She hardly ever says that. I don't know if I just had 'one' good day or whether living away from the house is paying off. It certainly is costing enough. I don't 'feel' any different but my energy did last all day. I didn't notice it myself until other people made comments, like 'wow, you are putting in a long day' and my bosses compliments. I hope it continues. It would be nice to have money coming in, rather than out. Anyway, I doubt allergies could cause all the things you are reporting. --- In , " shybasset " <shybasset@...> wrote: > > Now that I had developed significant Multiple Chemical sensitivities > taht kicked in hard about 2 weeks ago and are persistent Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 25, 2006 Report Share Posted October 25, 2006 Sharon's message gives me idea that perhaps trying to construct what people here call a 'clean room' is something you can do. If you only sleep in it, that is 8+ hours away from what is ailing you, assuming it is in the environment, rather than an illness, etc. The way you do that is to remove everything from one room including carpet, anything poroused and just something to sleep on that is not previously exposed to house, like an air mattress, outfitted with a few mattres cover, sheets, new pillows and pillow cases and nothing else in the room. Room needs more preparation than this but since I don't know if you are interested, I won't go on, but perhaps you can do this and get some relief and also test whether it is in your environment or in you. --- In , " tigerpaw2c " <tigerpaw2c@...> wrote: > > Since you are not sure what is making you ill I would do a little > experiment, with the assistance of a friend or family member, remove > the carpeting in one room, windows open to help air it out, > naturally run the air purifier afterwards. After a couple of days of > airing out, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 25, 2006 Report Share Posted October 25, 2006 Barb, I think we are both wrong. Instead of saying an allergen I should have used the term irritant. Big difference. And yes some of the symptoms can become somewhat severe. This is one stage many of us go through in the beginning. You don't go from being normal to toxic,you go through stages and irritant is very important. Sharon > > > > Now that I had developed significant Multiple Chemical > sensitivities > > taht kicked in hard about 2 weeks ago and are persistent > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 25, 2006 Report Share Posted October 25, 2006 -steve, i can only compare with my own experience for what its worth. i linked the severe burning of my nose with stachy in my first home but it wasn't until toward the last year or so of staying there when it got really bad. early on in my exposure there, I reported to my doctor of haveing a strange taste in my mouth and was constantly blowing my nose witch seemed extremly dry and brushing my teeth several times a day trying to get rid of this taste in my mouth that tasted like dirt. yes there were some other molds there but when tested by swab,tape and air, they were low in amounts compared to stachy and for stachy to even pick up on air tests, a lot higher than others speaks for itself and I suffered many symptoms of T-mycotoxin exposure during this time. this home was a 3 story and in the beganning of mold growth from roof leaks there were rooms that I know now that were less toxic than others but after several years it filtrated throughout and toward the end there would not of been a room that I could clean well enough to stay in , nor is there now. I dont think it would be possable to clean one room and keep it sealed off from the rest. even opening the door to get in would cause a air draft.and this home had no carpet or paddings, just some throw rugs that I cleaned every year outside. it was in the walls and my house dust was black not brown. doing a white glove test may tell you something if its filtrated through out your house and if its stachy or other black molds. my second home was really bad and while some of the same symptoms got worse, a few got better and some new ones also happened. mostly the same molds as first home but in very different amounts and a few extra ones. my nose didn't burn in this home but dripped like crazy and caused a lot of sores in and around my nose. the smell in this house was very bad after the other smells used to cover it up where dealt with. in this home the glands behind my ears swelled my ears shut and clear fluid was comeing out of them and my nose and I was caughing it up. during this time I could not have added 2+2. this place had wall to wall carpet and my grandbaby was crawling around on them and got very ill and his hair fell out.I hate to say try this but one night of sleeping on the carpeted floors and if your much sicker it might be a clue that its the carpet, what ever is in it, which might be some kind of chemical and not mold at all.if you just put your nose to it and have more of a reaction than I wouldn't try to sleep there at all, it could also be something under the house coming up through the floors which would make the smell in your carpet. rayon,methane poisoning, etc. heres one thing to consider, if you have MCS now it could be a lot of things and not mold at all. I would be interested to know if you are not so sick that you can tell when a added irritant is bothering you, because I remember haveing so many symptoms going on that even if I would have known what MCS was than, I cant say that I would have known if I had it or not. it does sound like if you dont have it yet your on the way to getting it. do you have pain in your liver? do you have what seams to be bladder and kidney infections? a toxin is a toxin,you can get much worse no matter what kind it is. if you do have mcs it could be something in your home thats getting to you but might not bother someone without mcs. I would at least have a mold inspector come in, if he finds mold first just have tape test done, or even just do some tape tests your self in send them in to a lab. even if you dont see what looks like mold, just stick the tape in several places. maybe have dust sample from your vacum cleaner tested. start with clean bag and send it straight in to be tested. no one here can tell you what your breathing. does anyone else get sick when they come in your home? do you have a basement or crawlspace? can you describe the smell or is there a smell? carbonmyoxide and rayon have no smell, rayon might, not sure.if your pretty sure it was mold from infested throw rugs you had in there, did they smell really bad? if it was mold fro them it stands to reason that it may of gotten blown around the house and filtered into your carpet but it would still need moisture to grow, but if those carpets were full of mycotoxins I can see where just that alone could be getting to you and if you pull up be careful not to raise a dust. if your carpet is full of mold from those throw rugs you had layed on them,you might even be able to stick a piece of 2 inch tape several times to the carpet and pick up enough to have tested. vacumming is not a good thing to do with mold infested carpet. if you have vacummed did it make you sicker? I know it made me much sicker when I vacummed the moldy carpet in my second home. -- In , " tigerpaw2c " <tigerpaw2c@...> wrote: > > Barb, > > I think we are both wrong. Instead of saying an allergen I should > have used the term irritant. Big difference. And yes some of the > symptoms can become somewhat severe. This is one stage many of us go > through in the beginning. You don't go from being normal to > toxic,you go through stages and irritant is very important. > > Sharon > > > > > > > > Now that I had developed significant Multiple Chemical > > sensitivities > > > taht kicked in hard about 2 weeks ago and are persistent > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 25, 2006 Report Share Posted October 25, 2006 > > Steve, I can't imagine that allergy symptoms would be as serious as > symptoms you are having. As for season, have you had a hard freeze > yet this year? Dr Rae, Dr from Dallas, says that mold gets worse, > not better in the fall. He says things don't improve until your > area gets a few days of a hard freeze. Maybe all the falling leaves > decaying? He also said mold seems to like weather in the 50's. Not > sure why that either. Could it be that air is more humid in the > fall due to still alot of humidity and mold in soil from summer and > air cooling off causes a higher humidity, or these to 'condense' in > some way higher before it gets lower? I don't know. We have had a > hard freeze here and humidity has dipped and things are feeling > better in my home. Barb, I also noticed that the existing mold contaminations got a lot worse when the temperature dropped. Or perhaps it has also something to do with higher humidity at the beginning of Fall? don't know. But according to these articles, the toxins we fear the most, trichothecenes - are produced best when the temperature is below 10 degrees celsius (that's about 50 F). http://www.cbwinfo.com/Biological/Toxins/mycotoxins.html " There were still some problems, notably that some of the pollen was from plants not found in Indo-China, and the presence of synthetic chemicals like polyethylene glycol. Another was that trichothecenes are only manufactured at low temperatures (lower than 10°C (50°F)) that are not normally found in Indo-China. Subsequently, defectors from Laos and Vietnam admitted to the use of some forms of chemical weapons as did some Soviet prisoners of war taken in Afghanistan. " and this: http://www.cbwinfo.com/Biological/Toxins/T2.html " Outbreaks of alimentary toxic aleukia (ATA) that killed thousands in an already devastated post-World War II Soviet Union had their origins in grains left over winter in the fields under conditions ideal for trichothecene synthesis. These grains were scant gleanings that would have been left for the birds in better days. " So.. maybe most of the mold colony does go dormant and doesn't multiply further, but on the other hand increases the production of toxins because it feels 'threatened'? Does Dr. Rea think things will get better when the full-blown Winter weather comes complete with much colder weather and snow? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 26, 2006 Report Share Posted October 26, 2006 Branislav, I believe the mold activity dies down after a hard freeze and lays dormant over freezing temperatures. Why the increase in toxins I don't know but that theory is as good as any. Of course, they are just playing dead and all come back with more offspring next spring!! --- Branislav <arealis@...> wrote: > > > > > Steve, I can't imagine that allergy symptoms > would be as serious as > > symptoms you are having. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 26, 2006 Report Share Posted October 26, 2006 -seems that different types of mold thrive in different weather condictions from early spring to deep freeze and they keep right on thriving through the winter indoors.if you live in the corn belt harvest time can put a lot of molds in the air and i've read about how some molds grow more in dry stressful condictions in crops.early summer here, the hay bailing season had the air full of mold, it was bas here and even non-moldys said the air smelt mildewy.someone in the area was bailing some very moldy hay. its rainy here, thats not going to help the moister content in the corn but may cut down the amounts of mold in the air.-- In , bbw <barb1283@...> wrote: > > Branislav, > I believe the mold activity dies down after a > hard freeze and lays dormant over freezing > temperatures. Why the increase in toxins I don't > know but that theory is as good as any. Of > course, they are just playing dead and all come > back with more offspring next spring!! > > --- Branislav <arealis@...> wrote: > > > > > > > > > Steve, I can't imagine that allergy symptoms > > would be as serious as > > > symptoms you are having. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 26, 2006 Report Share Posted October 26, 2006 When i lived for 10 years in a moldy house, where the mold was between the walls, I never had a migraine in Jan, Feb, or March- presummibly because it was so cold that the mold went dorment, the worse time was when continual rains made the colony grow- I suppose it would depend on where the colony is and if it is plumming or rainfall supporting it. -- In , " Branislav " <arealis@...> wrote: > > > > > > Steve, I can't imagine that allergy symptoms would be as serious as > > symptoms you are having. As for season, have you had a hard freeze > > yet this year? Dr Rae, Dr from Dallas, says that mold gets worse, > > not better in the fall. He says things don't improve until your > > area gets a few days of a hard freeze. Maybe all the falling leaves > > decaying? He also said mold seems to like weather in the 50's. Not > > sure why that either. Could it be that air is more humid in the > > fall due to still alot of humidity and mold in soil from summer and > > air cooling off causes a higher humidity, or these to 'condense' in > > some way higher before it gets lower? I don't know. We have had a > > hard freeze here and humidity has dipped and things are feeling > > better in my home. > > > Barb, > > I also noticed that the existing mold contaminations got a lot worse > when the temperature dropped. Or perhaps it has also something to do > with higher humidity at the beginning of Fall? don't know. > > But according to these articles, the toxins we fear the most, > trichothecenes - are produced best when the temperature is below 10 > degrees celsius (that's about 50 F). > > http://www.cbwinfo.com/Biological/Toxins/mycotoxins.html > > " There were still some problems, notably that some of the pollen was > from plants not found in Indo-China, and the presence of synthetic > chemicals like polyethylene glycol. Another was that trichothecenes > are only manufactured at low temperatures (lower than 10°C (50°F)) > that are not normally found in Indo-China. Subsequently, defectors > from Laos and Vietnam admitted to the use of some forms of chemical > weapons as did some Soviet prisoners of war taken in Afghanistan. " > > > and this: > > http://www.cbwinfo.com/Biological/Toxins/T2.html > > " Outbreaks of alimentary toxic aleukia (ATA) that killed thousands in > an already devastated post-World War II Soviet Union had their origins > in grains left over winter in the fields under conditions ideal for > trichothecene synthesis. These grains were scant gleanings that would > have been left for the birds in better days. " > > > So.. maybe most of the mold colony does go dormant and doesn't > multiply further, but on the other hand increases the production of > toxins because it feels 'threatened'? > > Does Dr. Rea think things will get better when the full-blown Winter > weather comes complete with much colder weather and snow? > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 26, 2006 Report Share Posted October 26, 2006 Yes, of course, even if it is freezing outside, mold can be growing inside. However if it is freezing outside humidity inside should be very low, unless you are humidifying air, and that should lower mold activity inside also. So when temperatures are at freezing levels, moldies should feel better than they did in summer...I would think. At least I do. --- who <jeaninem660@...> wrote: > -seems that different types of mold thrive in > different weather > condictions from early spring to deep freeze > and they keep right on > thriving through the winter indoors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 26, 2006 Report Share Posted October 26, 2006 Sorry, I'm confused. Should we humidify our air inside during the winter? We use to run a humidifier during the winter because of the static electricity but haven't done it in the past 2 yrs. Yes, humidify or No, humidify indoors? Sue Yes, of course, even if it is freezing outside, mold can be growing inside. However if it is freezing outside humidity inside should be very low, unless you are humidifying air, and that should lower mold activity inside also. So when temperatures are at freezing levels, moldies should feel better than they did in summer...I would think. At least I do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 26, 2006 Report Share Posted October 26, 2006 --I dont think mold toxins, at least stachy mold toxins care what the humidity level is. a study by strauss proves that stachy toxins,T-mycos are still around for years when its dry. even inside during winter stachy myco's can make you very ill, exspecially if your heating system keeps them stirred up. humidity doesn't have nothing to do with dry stachy spores floating around in your home all year around, once they are there, they are there, and actually the dryness helps keep spores with myco's attached and myco's airborne. humidity plays a part in mold growing, not in the dry spores allready there.if you have heat in your home and mold, its going to keep growing in the winter if its in your walls, attic, basement,crawl spaces, ductwork, places where moisture from outside air and heat from inside can combine.yes, I fell better outside in the winter but when in my moldy home during the winter I felt worse because heat rises and alone with that dry mold spores and myco's.because of the way my home was built the mold spores were constantly drifting down only to be carried back upwards in the winter by heat.I can't tell you about other kinds of dry mold activity in winter because I didn't manage to stay in my second moldy home in the winter time but I amagion it would have killed me if I had, but it was very high in many molds known to prouduce toxins. I dont think your going to fell much better inside during winter in a moldy home, only outside. - In , bbw <barb1283@...> wrote: > > Yes, of course, even if it is freezing outside, > mold can be growing inside. However if it is > freezing outside humidity inside should be very > low, unless you are humidifying air, and that > should lower mold activity inside also. So when > temperatures are at freezing levels, moldies > should feel better than they did in summer...I > would think. At least I do. > > --- who <jeaninem660@...> wrote: > > > -seems that different types of mold thrive in > > different weather > > condictions from early spring to deep freeze > > and they keep right on > > thriving through the winter indoors. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 26, 2006 Report Share Posted October 26, 2006 It's possible that stem cell research may eventually develop ways to repair brain damage.. So, someday, this kind of injury may be treateable, really. But its (perhaps even more) possible that may never happen too. Or it may happen after our lifetimes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 26, 2006 Report Share Posted October 26, 2006 -no dought that the way your home is built and what types of mold you have, your heating system and even weather your walls are insulated or not, so many things can play a role in how mold affects you and when it affects you, wet or dry, growing or not growing, in the ductwork or not, under the house, crawlspaces, dead air spaces, etc. theres to many possablitys for anyone to suffer the same times to the same molds.to much really to even compare to any point of being able to really base any judgement on. I think you'd have to be a mold spore to know or be in the same space as them with a moisture detector and a few other tools to really know whats going on at any given moment, they are like very busy little bees constantly looking for somewhere to thrive and i think that dry spores are misunderstood and from my own experience both are very bad.haveing been in 2 tottally different types of enviroments, fro one straight to the other than after a mounth of some relief back in the first home again, where in one home with dryer condictions where stachy was the haed honcho to one with a high oisture problem where aspergillus/penicillium,fusarium and other thrived. I have withnessed a big difference in just to homes and understand just how different exposures can be even to the point of high voc's vs. low, carpet vs. no carpet, mold in ductwork vs. no ductwork. maybe even mold growing closer to the ground, under house, crawl spaces, etc. premotes different mold growth than molds grown in a attic from roof leaks, and maybe a lot depends on what certain molds like to eat as to which ones well grow better. so many factors, to many.-- In , " carondeen " <kdeanstudios@...> wrote: > > When i lived for 10 years in a moldy house, where the mold was > between the walls, I never had a migraine in Jan, Feb, or March- > presummibly because it was so cold that the mold went dorment, the > worse time was when continual rains made the colony grow- I suppose > it would depend on where the colony is and if it is plumming or > rainfall supporting it. > > -- In , " Branislav " <arealis@> wrote: > > > > --- In , " barb1283 " <barb1283@> wrote: > > > > > > Steve, I can't imagine that allergy symptoms would be as serious > as > > > symptoms you are having. As for season, have you had a hard > freeze > > > yet this year? Dr Rae, Dr from Dallas, says that mold gets > worse, > > > not better in the fall. He says things don't improve until your > > > area gets a few days of a hard freeze. Maybe all the falling > leaves > > > decaying? He also said mold seems to like weather in the 50's. > Not > > > sure why that either. Could it be that air is more humid in the > > > fall due to still alot of humidity and mold in soil from summer > and > > > air cooling off causes a higher humidity, or these to 'condense' > in > > > some way higher before it gets lower? I don't know. We have > had a > > > hard freeze here and humidity has dipped and things are feeling > > > better in my home. > > > > > > Barb, > > > > I also noticed that the existing mold contaminations got a lot > worse > > when the temperature dropped. Or perhaps it has also something to > do > > with higher humidity at the beginning of Fall? don't know. > > > > But according to these articles, the toxins we fear the most, > > trichothecenes - are produced best when the temperature is below 10 > > degrees celsius (that's about 50 F). > > > > http://www.cbwinfo.com/Biological/Toxins/mycotoxins.html > > > > " There were still some problems, notably that some of the pollen > was > > from plants not found in Indo-China, and the presence of synthetic > > chemicals like polyethylene glycol. Another was that trichothecenes > > are only manufactured at low temperatures (lower than 10°C (50°F)) > > that are not normally found in Indo-China. Subsequently, defectors > > from Laos and Vietnam admitted to the use of some forms of chemical > > weapons as did some Soviet prisoners of war taken in Afghanistan. " > > > > > > and this: > > > > http://www.cbwinfo.com/Biological/Toxins/T2.html > > > > " Outbreaks of alimentary toxic aleukia (ATA) that killed thousands > in > > an already devastated post-World War II Soviet Union had their > origins > > in grains left over winter in the fields under conditions ideal for > > trichothecene synthesis. These grains were scant gleanings that > would > > have been left for the birds in better days. " > > > > > > So.. maybe most of the mold colony does go dormant and doesn't > > multiply further, but on the other hand increases the production of > > toxins because it feels 'threatened'? > > > > Does Dr. Rea think things will get better when the full-blown > Winter > > weather comes complete with much colder weather and snow? > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 26, 2006 Report Share Posted October 26, 2006 Your are right Jeanine but at least new activity is not coming at you. At least this is the case for me. Winter is an improvement in my symptoms. --- who <jeaninem660@...> wrote: > --I dont think mold toxins, at least stachy > mold toxins care what the > humidity level is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 26, 2006 Report Share Posted October 26, 2006 Dry spore might be equally as troublesome for people allergic to mold. I do not test allergic to mold by skin or blood tests so perhaps that is why dry mold spore does not bother me. Of course if dry spore lands in wet place, like in your nose, then it can be as troublesome in winter or spring or summer but there is less mold in air generally when temperatures are freezing and mold hybernates when it is dry. --- who <jeaninem660@...> wrote: > -no dought that the way your home is built and > what types of mold you > have, your heating system and even weather your > walls are insulated > or Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 26, 2006 Report Share Posted October 26, 2006 --what does allergys have to do with mycotoxins??????- In , bbw <barb1283@...> wrote: > > Dry spore might be equally as troublesome for > people allergic to mold. I do not test allergic > to mold by skin or blood tests so perhaps that is > why dry mold spore does not bother me. Of course > if dry spore lands in wet place, like in your > nose, then it can be as troublesome in winter or > spring or summer but there is less mold in air > generally when temperatures are freezing and mold > hybernates when it is dry. > > --- who <jeaninem660@...> wrote: > > > -no dought that the way your home is built and > > what types of mold you > > have, your heating system and even weather your > > walls are insulated > > or > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 26, 2006 Report Share Posted October 26, 2006 Pre-freeze mold counts here were between 3000 and 5000. After freeze so far mold counts have been below 1000. However if you are talking about toxins that is another subject and they aren't less troublesome in winter but may become airbourne easier. Allergens in generally do become airborne easier in very dry weather. However at least new toxins are not being produced because mold spore activity is down, unless there are in a spot where there is still high humidity and air is warmer than outside. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 27, 2006 Report Share Posted October 27, 2006 Subject becomes confusing since there are so many aspects of mold problems. There is subject of mold spores and mold toxins, and allergies, and toxic illness and infection, etc, etc. I was talking primarily of mold spores in relationship to weather, not toxins. In freezing temperature mold count goes down. I don't know if weather has any affect on toxins or not but I assume if there is less mold, there would be less toxins. Then again there are two subjects there: inside mold and outside mold. I'm more referring to outside affects since freezing weather primarily affects outside. However outside mold count and humidity DOES affect inside counts and humidity so I was saying HERE outside freezing temperatures have affect of lowering mold counts and I have less symptoms inside house also. I have fresh air intake though so as mold spore activity dies down in my house due to low humidity conditions, less new toxins are being produced and fresh air eventually clears alot of toxins that were in house out since new toxins are not being produced by mold that is dormant in the very low humidity condtions. They say 'add water or humidity' for mold to grow, mold doesn't grow in low humidity conditions. There still are old toxins that have contaminated things but not new ones being produced in low humidity of house. I do not humidify in winter due to house problems, so humidity gets down into 20-30's in the winter. I had professional testing done in winter, February and they hardly picked up any mold spores. However summer was a whole different thing, high numbers so here season and humidity made a difference. I didn't have toxin testing. I don't know how to do that. --- who <jeaninem660@...> wrote: > --what does allergys have to do with > mycotoxins??????- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 27, 2006 Report Share Posted October 27, 2006 Sue, I guess Carl or Jeff should answer that but I stopped humidifying due to mold problem. I think humidity above 35% but below 50% is considered ideal. Too low a humidity allows sinuses to dry out and crack and you are more likely to catch a cold or get flu since germs can get into your bloodstream when your sinuses are not moist but are cracked. If your humidifier does a good job of keeping humidity at level you pick, those levels should keep mold not growing and sinuses health. HOWEVER....there always is a however I think in this subject, it was pointed out that where humidistat might be 35%, other areas of house may be higher, also inside walls, etc, so out of exasperation with whole issue I just stopped humidifying. Ideally if you could humidify enough for sinuses to stay moist but not enough for dust mites and mold to grow, that would be ideal. A school course in this should be mandatory, on keeping a house healthy, well a series of classes. The more I know, the more confused I get. --- ssr3351@... wrote: > Sorry, I'm confused. Should we humidify our air > inside during > the winter? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 27, 2006 Report Share Posted October 27, 2006 Thanks, Barb. We have always(for the 13 yrs. in this house) run a humidifier with the furnace during the winter months without any problems. My illness came from my workplace and I am well at home. I just panic about everything and am scared to death to do something wrong. Certainly don't want to cause a health issue here at home. We have never had a moisture problem but always run a dehumidifier in the basement which is always nice and dry. Sue Sue, I guess Carl or Jeff should answer that but I stopped humidifying due to mold problem. I think humidity above 35% but below 50% is considered ideal. Too low a humidity allows sinuses to dry out and crack and you are more likely to catch a cold or get flu since germs can get into your bloodstream when your sinuses are not moist but are cracked. If your humidifier Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 27, 2006 Report Share Posted October 27, 2006 Thanks, ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 27, 2006 Report Share Posted October 27, 2006 On Thu, 26 Oct 2006 16:53:52 EDT, you wrote: >Sorry, I'm confused. Should we humidify our air inside during >the winter? We use to run a humidifier during the winter because >of the static electricity but haven't done it in the past 2 yrs. >Yes, humidify or No, humidify indoors? No, don't humidify unless you have some health condition that requires it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 27, 2006 Report Share Posted October 27, 2006 On Thu, 26 Oct 2006 13:35:11 -0700 (PDT), you wrote: >Pre-freeze mold counts here were between 3000 and >5000. After freeze so far mold counts have been >below 1000. However if you are talking about >toxins that is another subject and they aren't >less troublesome in winter but may become >airbourne easier. Allergens in generally do >become airborne easier in very dry weather. >However at least new toxins are not being >produced because mold spore activity is down, >unless there are in a spot where there is still >high humidity and air is warmer than outside. > > My experiences coincide with Barb's, In particular last summer when I left my trailer for a week I set the dehumidifier down to 35% and did not run the ac. It probably easily got above 110 degrees in my trailer at 35% humidity. Not very conducive to just about any kind of life form. When I came back the trailer was much more tolerable than when I left. My car has never even come close to doing the same thing to me as my trailer for the same reason, heat. Conditions were not conducive for mold growth. Unfortunately in order to achieve these conditions I had to not be in my trailer. Same thing would apply with cold weather I would think. If it got down to freezing inside. This would make a huge difference. But if your running the heat obviously your creating a favorable environment for mold growth. My thinking is a lot different than a lot in this group in that I HAVEN'T been convinced of the lingering mycotoxin connection to illness, or spore plumes outside for this matter. All cases where I have been ill have been in connection with active mold colonies IN STRUCTURES I have lived in. Never have I been in contact with any of my belongings such as cloths, bedding, computer, books, luggage etc. all of which should be considerably contaminated with mycotoxins and spores from my trailer and felt profoundly ill during extended stays elsewhere with them. EXCEPT for one of my monitors which had active mold growth on it: http://home.tampabay.rr.com/rchrist9/Moldy%20Monitor.shtml Not saying it doesn't happen just that my observations seem to differ greatly. Also their are a multitude of variables such as the time it takes to get clear, how much mold I am in contact with in the new places I stayed at etc. If I were able to experience a baseline of no exposure for more than a month and than be exposed to mycotoxin ONLY or spore ONLY contaminated environments, and no active mold. Maybe I would change my mind. I'm not saying people with differing opinions are wrong. The jury's still out for me though. I guess I have always had to see things for myself before I believe it. Especially when these things seem to defy logic or common sense. This is part of the reason I have not taken a lot of cogent advice about avoidance here in the past. I had to make the painful connection myself first. The only connection I have made is ACTIVE mold colonies are very detrimental to my health. NOT residual spores, NOT residual mycotoxins. Not saying residual spores or residual mycotoxins alone CAN'T make one sick, but my money is defiantly that they DON'T in any significant way at this point. It just defy's common sense. But than again so does tiny concentrations of mold and I know this to be detrimental to me because of my predisposition to it , than take my 76 year old father with no predisposition who is not phased in the least by something that knocks my on my butt. I am not an epidemiologist but I believe most cases of severe mold sensitivity, cases where people become PERMANTLY disabled are not consistent in that every time you throw a subject in a mold contaminated environment the same or similar predictable disastrous symptoms result. If this were the case common sense would dictate that this group would have about 500 times more members than it currently has. (which it might have if you added all the mcs, gws, cfs victims.) I believe this illness to be due to a breakdown in our immune system that predisposes us while leaving others unaffected in any meaningful way. The reason most could care less about the mold issue is their not affected by it. I believe a lot of factors with our health are involved in this. Not simply " the mold " Probably mostly due to age, chemicals, pesticides, sometimes medicines, sometimes diseases, and mold expousure, and the key thing is a combination of these things over a lifetime that destroy our immune system in a way that leaves us affected while others are not. That's probably why most of us are middle aged. It's ironic in that I believe the MCS theory to be a failed model in that tiny trace amounts of chemicals are NOT responsible for our wild swings. Wild swings that are prevalent in GWS, CFS, MCS, SBS. One common denominator is mold though (in my opinion). Another common thread is our age, chemicals, pesticides, the medicine disease connection AND MOLD. Many people who believe in the MCS model believe it was due to excessive exposures to chemicals, medications, or sometimes Limes disease but don't make the connection to mold, or downplay it's significance to their everyday symptoms. And specifically to the mold in their OWN residences. Certain things about mycotoxins bother me, first if they are as toxic as some imply and have longevity exceeding 1 year or more, how come they don't build up to the point in nature where every living organism is destroyed. Why aren't ALL of our bodies and homes hopelessly contaminated with them? I am not a chemist but I believe just about all bio toxins as some people call them I don't like the term break down in nature rather rapidly. If they didn't the results would be disastrous. I don't see any reason for mycotoxins to be any different. Granted indoor environments will greatly reduce the breakdown of toxins. Take red tide for instance. If those toxins did not break down the cumulative effect would destroy ecosystems for years if not forever, not simply months. Contaminated fish should make thousands of people sick, and contaminate their bodies long after the epidemic fades away, there's no reliable evidence of this. Conversely take PCB's and dioxin, chlordane, mercury, arsenic. These are very dangerous in large part because of their persistence. They ARE very defiantly in the food chain, all man made compounds or caused by our activity. The more I think about it too I am not convinced that cross contamination (spores) is as big of an issue as many have made of it on this group. In fact as I might have made of it here in this group in the past. If the place you are going to has no water damage trace amounts of spores introduced from a mold damaged building should not be a problem as long as they don't get an opportunity to grow. With no water source they can't grow. Of course just about any structure you go to at some time or another is going to be conducive to spore growth so I'm not saying shake all of your moldy belongings off in your new environment. The question begs asking though if mold spores are everywhere than that means the very type of spores you are trying to leave behind are already in your new residence so it's kind of futile all of the impossible decontamination procedures people have talked about here. Whatever your trying to leave behind is already there. It's prudent, I'm not saying don't be concerned. But by the same token don't get mired down in a futile quest. The most prudent thing I think one could do is to find a place with no ACTIVE mold and make every effort under the sun to keep it that way. An observation that supports my thinking is that I brought a lot of my belongings over to my brothers house (from my original mold contaminated house) http://home.tampabay.rr.com/rchrist9/ and cleaned them but by no means were they decontaminated. porous items, difficult to clean items, My plasma cutter and my mig welder, my compressor, my roll around tool chest, my air tools, hundreds of sockets and wrenches, one of my commercial mowers, hedge trimmers, my mothers canvas paintings. I was so worried about his house three years after the fact that I stayed there for 5 days to give it a chance to make me sick. It did not, at least not anywhere on the level of what my trailer does. Not saying I was cured there, just the difference was night and day from my trailer. His house is less than ten years old and never had any significant water issues, they always run the ac, very well maintained. But it did have very significant cross contamination from a very very moldy house. http://home.tampabay.rr.com/rchrist9/ That's why I always harp on the medical establishment. There is no hard peer reviewed science to back up or refute most of what I have said here in a meaningful way. And that is no accident. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 28, 2006 Report Share Posted October 28, 2006 Everyones tolerence, sensitivity-, amount of toxin, spores present, varies to a great degree-It is worth it for those newly sick and doing their first move to take the most extreme measures to protect themselves- many people have made their first move only to find they must move again- this time without their " stuff " .-I did this myself because I did not have this support group to guide me- hopefully people will learn from our experience -- In , Christ <antares41_41@...> wrote: > > On Thu, 26 Oct 2006 13:35:11 -0700 (PDT), you wrote: > > >Pre-freeze mold counts here were between 3000 and > >5000. After freeze so far mold counts have been > >below 1000. However if you are talking about > >toxins that is another subject and they aren't > >less troublesome in winter but may become > >airbourne easier. Allergens in generally do > >become airborne easier in very dry weather. > >However at least new toxins are not being > >produced because mold spore activity is down, > >unless there are in a spot where there is still > >high humidity and air is warmer than outside. > > > > > My experiences coincide with Barb's, In particular last summer when I > left my trailer for a week I set the dehumidifier down to 35% and did > not run the ac. It probably easily got above 110 degrees in my trailer > at 35% humidity. Not very conducive to just about any kind of life > form. When I came back the trailer was much more tolerable than when I > left. My car has never even come close to doing the same thing to me > as my trailer for the same reason, heat. Conditions were not conducive > for mold growth. > > Unfortunately in order to achieve these conditions I had to not be in > my trailer. Same thing would apply with cold weather I would think. If > it got down to freezing inside. This would make a huge difference. But > if your running the heat obviously your creating a favorable > environment for mold growth. > > My thinking is a lot different than a lot in this group in that I > HAVEN'T been convinced of the lingering mycotoxin connection to > illness, or spore plumes outside for this matter. All cases where I > have been ill have been in connection with active mold colonies IN > STRUCTURES I have lived in. > > Never have I been in contact with any of my belongings such as cloths, > bedding, computer, books, luggage etc. all of which should be > considerably contaminated with mycotoxins and spores from my trailer > and felt profoundly ill during extended stays elsewhere with them. > EXCEPT for one of my monitors which had active mold growth on it: > http://home.tampabay.rr.com/rchrist9/Moldy%20Monitor.shtml > > Not saying it doesn't happen just that my observations seem to differ > greatly. Also their are a multitude of variables such as the time it > takes to get clear, how much mold I am in contact with in the new > places I stayed at etc. > > If I were able to experience a baseline of no exposure for more than a > month and than be exposed to mycotoxin ONLY or spore ONLY contaminated > environments, and no active mold. Maybe I would change my mind. I'm > not saying people with differing opinions are wrong. The jury's still > out for me though. > > I guess I have always had to see things for myself before I believe > it. Especially when these things seem to defy logic or common sense. > This is part of the reason I have not taken a lot of cogent advice > about avoidance here in the past. I had to make the painful > connection myself first. The only connection I have made is ACTIVE > mold colonies are very detrimental to my health. NOT residual spores, > NOT residual mycotoxins. > > Not saying residual spores or residual mycotoxins alone CAN'T make > one sick, but my money is defiantly that they DON'T in any > significant way at this point. > > It just defy's common sense. But than again so does tiny > concentrations of mold and I know this to be detrimental to me because > of my predisposition to it , than take my 76 year old father with no > predisposition who is not phased in the least by something that > knocks my on my butt. > > I am not an epidemiologist but I believe most cases of severe mold > sensitivity, cases where people become PERMANTLY disabled are not > consistent in that every time you throw a subject in a mold > contaminated environment the same or similar predictable disastrous > symptoms result. If this were the case common sense would dictate that > this group would have about 500 times more members than it currently > has. (which it might have if you added all the mcs, gws, cfs victims.) > > I believe this illness to be due to a breakdown in our immune system > that predisposes us while leaving others unaffected in any meaningful > way. The reason most could care less about the mold issue is their not > affected by it. I believe a lot of factors with our health are > involved in this. Not simply " the mold " Probably mostly due to age, > chemicals, pesticides, sometimes medicines, sometimes diseases, and > mold expousure, and the key thing is a combination of these things > over a lifetime that destroy our immune system in a way that leaves us > affected while others are not. That's probably why most of us are > middle aged. > > It's ironic in that I believe the MCS theory to be a failed model in > that tiny trace amounts of chemicals are NOT responsible for our wild > swings. Wild swings that are prevalent in GWS, CFS, MCS, SBS. One > common denominator is mold though (in my opinion). Another common > thread is our age, chemicals, pesticides, the medicine disease > connection AND MOLD. Many people who believe in the MCS model believe > it was due to excessive exposures to chemicals, medications, or > sometimes Limes disease but don't make the connection to mold, or > downplay it's significance to their everyday symptoms. And > specifically to the mold in their OWN residences. > > Certain things about mycotoxins bother me, first if they are as toxic > as some imply and have longevity exceeding 1 year or more, how come > they don't build up to the point in nature where every living organism > is destroyed. Why aren't ALL of our bodies and homes hopelessly > contaminated with them? I am not a chemist but I believe just about > all bio toxins as some people call them I don't like the term break > down in nature rather rapidly. If they didn't the results would be > disastrous. > I don't see any reason for mycotoxins to be any different. Granted > indoor environments will greatly reduce the breakdown of toxins. > Take red tide for instance. If those toxins did not break down the > cumulative effect would destroy ecosystems for years if not forever, > not simply months. Contaminated fish should make thousands of people > sick, and contaminate their bodies long after the epidemic fades away, > there's no reliable evidence of this. > > Conversely take PCB's and dioxin, chlordane, mercury, arsenic. These > are very dangerous in large part because of their persistence. They > ARE very defiantly in the food chain, all man made compounds or caused > by our activity. > > The more I think about it too I am not convinced that cross > contamination (spores) is as big of an issue as many have made of it > on this group. In fact as I might have made of it here in this group > in the past. If the place you are going to has no water damage trace > amounts of spores introduced from a mold damaged building should not > be a problem as long as they don't get an opportunity to grow. With no > water source they can't grow. Of course just about any structure you > go to at some time or another is going to be conducive to spore growth > so I'm not saying shake all of your moldy belongings off in your new > environment. The question begs asking though if mold spores are > everywhere than that means the very type of spores you are trying to > leave behind are already in your new residence so it's kind of futile > all of the impossible decontamination procedures people have talked > about here. Whatever your trying to leave behind is already there. > It's prudent, I'm not saying don't be concerned. But by the same token > don't get mired down in a futile quest. The most prudent thing I think > one could do is to find a place with no ACTIVE mold and make every > effort under the sun to keep it that way. > > An observation that supports my thinking is that I brought a lot of my > belongings over to my brothers house (from my original mold > contaminated house) > http://home.tampabay.rr.com/rchrist9/ > and cleaned them but by no means were they decontaminated. porous > items, difficult to clean items, My plasma cutter and my mig welder, > my compressor, my roll around tool chest, my air tools, hundreds of > sockets and wrenches, one of my commercial mowers, hedge trimmers, my > mothers canvas paintings. I was so worried about his house three years > after the fact that I stayed there for 5 days to give it a chance to > make me sick. It did not, at least not anywhere on the level of what > my trailer does. Not saying I was cured there, just the difference was > night and day from my trailer. His house is less than ten years old > and never had any significant water issues, they always run the ac, > very well maintained. But it did have very significant cross > contamination from a very very moldy house. > http://home.tampabay.rr.com/rchrist9/ > That's why I always harp on the medical establishment. There is no > hard peer reviewed science to back up or refute most of what I have > said here in a meaningful way. And that is no accident. > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 29, 2006 Report Share Posted October 29, 2006 Boy have you got that right. Janet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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