Re: Why don't people act against mold?

[Guest guest]

" Carl E. Grimes " <grimes@...> wrote:

> ,

> We reach a point that is opposite of denial. It is called

hypervigilence. Racing around from one attempt to the next without

giving any of them an opportunity for a legitimate chance for

success. Latching on to everything with any glimmer of hope, whether

it is deserving of hope or not.

> What we all need, though, is a PROCESS we can trust. Not which

pill or which air purifier or which type of house or which city is

the best. What we need is a reliable procedure to follow that will

reveal to us, each in our own way, what we need to know and do,

what not to do, and how to evaluate the results.

> Carl Grimes

> Healthy Habitats LLC

>

Carl.

Rick and I discussed the peculiar vehemence of the rejection

he had from people that obviously had mold-mediated illnesses.

There are so many scams and strange theories being inflicted upon

sufferers that there is no choice about becoming superdenialistic.

Both because of outright fraud, and from hypervigilance/testing of

so many screwy concepts that didn't work.

That's where I thought that my experience would succeed where

Rick's had failed, because as a CFS prototype with pictures of

myself on top of various mountains, the sincerity of my improvement

could not be reasonably denied or logically dismissed as easily as

his.

I reasoned that what I had accomplished would induce curiousity

instead of outright suspicion, which would lead people to follow up

on this rather odd " mold " clue.

Which is why I said " Nobody could ignore this " - I would have to

fake too many verifiable events to pull off such a chicanery.

Much to my amazement, when I point this out, people resort to

questioning my personality and consistently attribute my claims

to 'arrogance' instead of seeing it as a paradigm-challenging

example of what might be possible.

My character traits are completely immaterial in regards to

physical nature of this clue, yet somehow, this is still seized upon

as a suitable reason for manifesting skepticism.

Rick decided not to subject himself to the vagaries of illogic, and

used " Trichothecene Mycotoxicosis may be indistinguishable from CFS "

as a sort of " weeding out " process of selectivity. If a CFS victim

saw the science and felt this applied, he must take it upon himself

to make contact. Others need not apply.

I thought that my example was a physical demonstration that would

breach the protective suspicious mindset, and allow more people to

explore this avenue - and that someone with a scientific mind would

surely respond, as Dr Shoemaker did. Yet Ricks warnings were

prophetic, and the vast majority of people did not interprete my

experience as an objective physical clue.

I was so intent on maintaining the " testability " of mycotoxin

exposure, that I would start by telling the few who did respond that

they should not automatically believe anything I say, but should

rather rely upon their own perceptions as I led them into

contamination zones.

You can imagine my amazement when I had a couple of people say " I

really thought you were on to something, because I could feel it

myself - but my doctor says that this is impossible, so... "

Now that's major skepticism! when people have become so suspicious

that they can no longer even trust their own senses!

Unfortunately, they have become too closed-minded to be trainable in

mycotoxin avoidance.

I believe that the reliable process/procedure you are looking for

can be developed, as I have decribed by unveiling

ACTH " blocking/masking response " by " getting clear " in a pristine

environment to revert to a " tabula rasa " for increased

perception/sensitivity. But just as Rick observed so many years

ago, it can only be exploited by those who manage to suspend their

suspicion and denial long enough to see it.

-

[Guest guest]

, a couple of additional comments.

> You can imagine my amazement when I had a couple of people say " I

> really thought you were on to something, because I could feel it

> myself - but my doctor says that this is impossible, so... "

Our culture places a high value on blindly following authorities at

the expense of our own experience.

> Now that's major skepticism! when people have become so suspicious

> that they can no longer even trust their own senses!

We have learned to rely on the authority of experts to determine

meaning and direct our choices. Not that this is always bad, and is

sometimes necessary, but it does leave us vunerable to being

victimized.

We must follow with our eyes wide open, not blindly, so we can

discern when to continue with them and when to rely on ourselves. We

don't find this taught in schools, the media or the movies. But the

principles are clearly stated in the Declaration of Independance and

the US Constitution.

Carl Grimes

Healthy Habitats LLC

[Guest guest]

" Carl E. Grimes " wrote:

> We must follow with our eyes wide open, not blindly, so we can

> discern when to continue with them and when to rely on ourselves.

>

> Carl Grimes

> Healthy Habitats LLC

>

Like the rest of us, I was blinded by my confidence in doctors for

many years.

No matter how many times I implicated mold, their insistence that

this must be an allergy caused me to conceptualize it as an allergy.

So when my reactions didn't fit the profile for allergy, I just

disregarded mold and thought that it must be something else - even

though some substance from mold was the only thing that ran through

all the different scenarios and situations.

It was only when my confidence in doctors was totally shattered by

their refusal to pay attention to clues that contradicted their

concepts that I realized they were clueless about this paradigm,

leaving me with only my own perceptions to trust.

For a long time, I thought of this as starting from a disadvantage,

but then I realized how fortunate I was when I saw an emerging

presentation of information from people formulating their mold

advice on a basis of mistakenly mixing allergy and toxicity

concepts, such as " You can stay until you can't stand it anymore,

because you can choose at that point to leave, you have hit bottom, -

and from then on you will start to get better " .

From an " allergy " point of view, this advice sounds perfectly

reasonable and helpful.

Trying to counter that that this advice is counterproductive tends

to sound extremist and unrealistic to those who have an

underlying 'allergyview' and are firmly convinced that their counsel

is good and reasonable and the right thing to say.

It isn't until you've been through it that you can see just what a

mistake it is to wait til the last moment. Up until then, " hang in

there " sounds like helpful advice. After, you know this is totally

wrong to tell people.

People who are now entering the current knowledge-base have to

overcome the huge hurdle of encountering a " mixed paradigm " view.

It's harder to " unlearn " a logical-sounding concept that seems to

fit the facts than it is to start from a blank-slate with no

preconceptions.

Dislodging a fundamental conceptual model which seem to come close

to explaining the situation only happens when the model completely

fails - and throws the entire premise open to review.

That's why it is so difficult to explain this phenomenon.

You can express it from your point of view, yet your words are

interpreted by someone with a completely different frame of

reference, and to them it sounds like you must be completely

confused and incorrect.

It isn't until novitiates are either forced by circumstance or are

open-minded to " unlearning " some entrenched concepts which they

begin to suspect, may not be true after all, that they can place

your expressions in the proper context.

-

[Guest guest]

-,i find that you have a very narrow view that is based on your

experience only. you do not know what others are dealing with because

you were not exposed to anything other than stachy,you say. we all

are prototypes of CFS, it goes along with immune disfunction.your

advice to go to the mountains is not good advice and I wouldn't tell

anyone to do that.you really do have a blind spot when it coes to

exposers beyond your own. if we all fell into your realm of thinking

why would we even need a doctor? of corse when we get out and

practice advoidence our detecting sences(actually by our reactions)

become more sharp. how could they not? we have becoe hypersensative.

there is a hudge difference in being hypersensative to just stachy

and to many molds/myco's,voc's etc. of corse I can sence even the

mildest effects to my body and I constantly tell my daughters that

thats one thing they can rely on, if something is affecting me it

cant be good to be breathing. at the same time, when it goes to

buying a house, not built to my standards, I would call a moldy that

also did not test the home, but only relies on thier reaction, a

fool. and when it comes to have a lawsuit, you would get laughed

right out of the courtroom. I'm very aware of all the bs floating

around on the web, and fairly intune with whats going on , on both

sides of this issue.

I've did my homework. I can reconize most names on abstracts,etc.

I am capable of seperating a lot of mumbo jumbo just based on my

experience and what I know is true. I also have a open mind. I cant

see where you do at all and I dont care for men that classify woman

as vixens at all. you continually look down from your petastool and

I'm just not convienced that you belong up there. -- In

, " Carl E. Grimes " <grimes@...> wrote:

>

> , a couple of additional comments.

>

> > You can imagine my amazement when I had a couple of people say " I

> > really thought you were on to something, because I could feel it

> > myself - but my doctor says that this is impossible, so... "

>

> Our culture places a high value on blindly following authorities at

> the expense of our own experience.

>

> > Now that's major skepticism! when people have become so

suspicious

> > that they can no longer even trust their own senses!

>

> We have learned to rely on the authority of experts to determine

> meaning and direct our choices. Not that this is always bad, and is

> sometimes necessary, but it does leave us vunerable to being

> victimized.

>

> We must follow with our eyes wide open, not blindly, so we can

> discern when to continue with them and when to rely on ourselves.

We

> don't find this taught in schools, the media or the movies. But the

> principles are clearly stated in the Declaration of Independance

and

> the US Constitution.

>

> Carl Grimes

> Healthy Habitats LLC

>

[Guest guest]

Letita

What a wonderfull letter. Sorry I havent returned your calls. Ive been very

under the weather and some depressed. I kept you number. Will call.

Janet

[Guest guest]

" Letitia s " wrote:

No one should be ATTACKING anyone personally. I don't like that

and we have enough negative things going on in our lives. No one

should feel like everything they say will be scrutinize or criticize.

>

> If we could elect to get rid of people off the board, I would

propose to get rid of one person because he is TOXIC! Toxicity brings

negativity! If you can't say anything nice or positive, then keep it

to yourself. It is what you say that is getting you in trouble. I mean

that in a nice way....

>

> I will be waiting for your reply, . (smile)

> Letitia s

If you are going to say that I have attacked anyone at any time,

please provide an example. Don't just say it, show me! Something,

anything. Quotes, citations, evidence of toxicity.

Somehow I don't think the " vixen " characterization qualifies, if you

look at the context:

/message/38282

vix·en (v & #301;k's & #601;n)

n.

A female fox.

A woman regarded as quarrelsome, shrewish, or malicious.

Which way do you I meant it in that message?

Does it sound like I'm insulting women?

And I stand behind what I said about MCSers being disinterested.

Mygla reiterated her own abatement of MCS through mold avoidance, and

I don't see MCSers asking her if it might be possible that a bit of

concerted mold avoidance might help them as well.

Don't you find that a little strange?

What makes you think that I'm not part of a group separate from this

one? Composed of people who have taken mold avoidance up a notch to

get better results, as we described in Mold Warriors?

-