Re: ProLabs Rebuttal to Consumer Reports

[Guest guest]

I'm kind of confused by some of this -- I know you might not like to say this

but are you saying people should or should not use these kits?

To me the main purpose of them for myself was to determine if there was mold at

all, especially from our air conditioner. Now, I still have not gotten my

results back -- which is the worst part of the test, as far as I'm concerned.

And I also wanted to have some idea if there was mold in the A/C unit, what type

of might be. But I would never consider this a definitive test or something I

would use in litigation or something like that. I think that's clear that it is

an inexpensive test and it's just for basic testing.

I am confused about the liquids needing to be " mixed. " As far as I can tell my

liquid did not need to be mixed, and it said nothing about a clean area. We

poured the media in, which was a liquid but became a gel, and then we covered

the plate and let it set for an hour. Was this right? We just did it in our

kitchen, no special place.

Lori

[] ProLabs Rebuttal to Consumer Reports

ProLab has published some specific information that directly impacts

what some of the results mean, what the report actually identifies

and even which molds will grow.

Consumer Reports tested four mold test kits and failed all four.

ProLab was one of them. D. Shane, Ph.D., VP of Lab services at

ProLab responded to CR's five points in the Aug-Oct issue of Mold &

Moisture Management Magazine, page 6. (my paraphrase unless in

quotation marks).

1. " The vials with media leaked. "

ProLab states they are aware of rare instances of leakage, have taken

corrective action and recalled all products that leaked.

2. " No expiration date. "

ProLab states that expiration dates apply to the gel, not the liquids

that make the gel. The kit has liquids that must be mixed at time of

use so they don't need expiration dates.

3. " Claims that the kit(s) can identify toxic mold, but the report

the lab sends you can't tell you this. "

ProLab states that the molds that can produce mycotoxins are easily

grown on their culture plates and be identified, which is what they

report.

(my note: Identifying mold on the plate that CAN produce mycotoxin is

not the same as identifying mold on the plate that IS producing

mycotoxin. For many of you concerned about the presence of

mycotoxins, this is a critical difference).

4. " Unused plates came back positive for mold growth. "

ProLab states the liquids must be mixed under clean conditions like

found in post remediation containment. If they are mixed in normal

conditions they will grow mold without being exposed.

(my note: This is CRITICAL for those of you that use this type of

kit. If you don't mix the liquids in a non-mold location, then the

mold in the air where you mix will be in the gel before the plate is

ever exposed. The results on the report will therefore be the

combination of what got mixed into the gel plus what settled on the

gel during the exposure).

5. The culture media is malt extract.

ProLab states that they use a proprietary culture media.

(my note: This means you may not be able to accurately compare

results from their plates with plates from any other source or lab

such as from Dallas, Mold Chek, or even from the professionals. Why?

Different culture media grow different molds. Malt extract (MEA)

favors some molds but inhibits others in a pattern that is different

from potato dextrose (PDA), corn meal (CMA), rose bengal (RBA),

tryptic soy (TSA), cellulose, sheep blood or any other media. They

did not identify the characteristics of their proprietary media).

ProLab further clarifies in their rebuttal letter:

A. " ...the most informative level of interpretation usually requires

that the analyst be able to distinguish among the predominant

different kinds. "

B. " The analyst must also be sufficiently experienced to detect

differences in seasonal frequency in outdoor air according to

location. "

C. " The ProLab test kit is an inexpensive screening test that will

aid in locating and examining mold amplifiers in residential

buildings. " (my note: this is not the same as determining whether or

not mold is a problem that needs remediation).

D. " The kits are best used in combination with a thorough inspection

to detect any macroscopically visible mold growth. "

Consumer Reports direct link:

http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/home-garden/home-improvement/after-

the-storm-cleaning-up-mold-206/mold-test-

kits/index.htm?resultPageIndex=1 & resultIndex=1 & searchTerm=mold%20test%

20kit

Or, go to http://www.consumerreports.org and search for " mold test

kits " It will be the first listing.

Mold and Moisture Managment Magazine is at: http://www.moldmag.com/

This issue isn't on the Web yet, but you can order a free

subscription to (hopefully) obtain the rebuttal letter on page 6. Or

I can e-mail you the scanned page if requested.

Carl Grimes

Healthy Habitats LLC

[Guest guest]

Hi Carl,

It's becoming more and more evident that testing

for mold is very tricky business: what time of

day, conditions outside, whether you have a/c on,

fan blowing, what's in culture plate, how you

handled culture plate, etc.

I still say having ProLab sell culture plates at

convenient places like Home Depot and Walmart

does a world of favor to consumers who are

totally unaware of mold and whether they have it.

I think it is an eye opener even if someone buys

it out of curiosity to do a mold culture and

realize that every half hour or so, lots of fuzzy

creatures that have the ability to grow on food,

beverages, and moist areas of house. I think it

peaks interest if nothing else.

I assume everything method has flaws and don't

expect any test to be perfect so I'm not shocked

by report or turned off to ProLab.

I did a culture plate in M#a#r*@$r#@i--o@#t^ & t

(don't want to mention names) when I moved in.

Within a day a very big colony growing. Don't

know if that was one spore or cluster but assume

cluster since it got very large very fast and I

just had it out for half hours. I know that may

not seem bad to mold testor but I'm looking for

cleanest place I can find. The hotel is

extremely neat and well maintained inside and

out, smells clean. I saw not even any dust

anywhere in hotel, lobby, halls, room, etc. With

Jeff May pointing out that a/c units are mold

pits, I decided to ask for it to be cleaned out.

There was a black *sludge* inside. It looked

awful. Person cleaned out the sludge and the

filter. I redid test both without a/c on and

with a/c on and after a week I have NOTHING

growing in culture plate, so cleaning the a/c

took alot of mold out of air. Now this is Pro

Lab kit but it tells me alot. First of all it

was convenient to go pick it up. I didn't want

to pay for lab results because I'm only staying

here 60 days but I got a reading that was

meaningful. Now after 10 days there is one tiny

thing growing in one with a/c on and nothing in

the other at all. I don't expect it to mean

there is nothing at all in the air but I know air

is greatly improved. If another test would pick

up different molds fine but I can see air is much

cleaner now that a/c has been serviced so I'm

sure results of another mold plates although

identifying perhaps a different type of mold

would also show improvement in air. I don't have

anything else I could do at the hotel since I

can't have them do bigger repairs for me and my

two months stay so testing with another kit or

having professional testors would be a waste of

time, so I'm happy with the convenience and story

ProLab kit gave me.

In my home I used Dallas plates second time. If

results were really important or confusing I

could use a different brand and to test Home

Depot before I hired a professional testor. I

also did swab test of some visible mold but it is

one tool and I am not turned off to ProLab.

I think putting a mold testing kit is the ailes

of all grocery stores and drug stores, and

hardware stores is a great idea. If one of the

other culture plate companies would do that, I

would be glad and they can compete with ProLab

but right now they are the only convenient kit to

pick up that allows you to pick it up

conveniently and inexpensively, not requiring

payment of test up front. More people will buy

something that costs 9.95 than costs 30.00 per

test or more so that helps many people. I think

they do mold detection industry a great favor by

being out there.

I check Consumer Reports for things frequently

but I don't always agree with them. They have

flaws also. Some of their experts aren't expert

also.

I'm sorry that they have bragged about

endorsements that may not be accurate but in the

world I've come to know, sales statements are

pretty inflated across the board and usually

written by marketing people rather than the

scientist or real knowledgeable people.

--- " Carl E. Grimes " <grimes@...> wrote:

> ProLab has published some specific information

> that directly impacts

> what some of the results mean, what the report

> actually identifies

> and even which molds will grow.

>

[Guest guest]

Lori,

I considered fact that pouring liquid in could

get mold in there but it would be coming from

your home or should and only takes a second. I

think it is nit picking.

My feeling is that Consumer Report could have

gotten idea that Pro Lab is flawed by forces on

the other side of the mold litagation issue.

Think of the impact of many people who know

nothing about mold all of a sudden being able to

easily take a test of their home themselves. I

doubt that Consumer Report people could be bought

but the forces on the other side of mold

litagation can be presented as mold experts and

could have written to Consumer Report and

complained about their testing, just like we know

that Dr Marinkovich and Dr Shoemaker and other

doctors who are willing to do something about

mold have been complained about to medical

boards.

--- Lori Baur <lori@...> wrote:

> I'm kind of confused by some of this -- I know

> you might not like to say this but are you

> saying people should or should not use these

> kits?

[Guest guest]

I also think that air quality problems are bound

to be MUCH worse in low income housing because

they will not be maintained as well as housing

that costs more, so for people with not much

money to spend at the time, it is the only thing

they could probably afford to spend. They aren't

going to go out and hire professional testors,

unless things get to a point where they are

involved in some litagation and expect to get it

back in lawsuit.

If there are expert that think Pro Lab is not

good enough, they should put their own kits out

there (I don't mean you incidentally. I mean

whoever is responsible for the Pro Lab story),

right next to Pro Lab and help people get better

testing for an inexpensive fee.

I think whoever thought up Pro Lab concept did a

good job. The vial that culture medium comes in

is very tiny and has very little air room in it.

No doubt some could get contaminated but I think

it is small. It tells you to pour it in, wait an

hour and then use it but I have made them up

ahead of time lately since I am apartment

shopping and want to have some ready, so they

have sit around for a few days and ones I have

had didn't grow anything until I exposed them.

Contamination could happen to any company that

puts out such a product.

I think there should be kits next to every

pharmacy pick up windows so poor people stuck

with taking pills might carry one home and find

they have mold problems instead of health

problems.

I suspect a smear job against Pro Lab for making

knowledge of mold available to so many people

inexpensively, like smear job on Dr Marinkovich,

Dr Shoemaker and others who are not keeping the

mold problems secret.

Incidentally this post in not in anger. It's so

hard to respond to emails without sounding that

way but just giving my opinion of Pro Lab based

on my experience with them and the Consumer

Reports report, which complains of things I think

could be leveled at any company that does mold

testing and reporting since as you have pointed

out, it is tricky thing and has many variables,

even for the most experienced experts.

--- bbw <barb1283@...> wrote:

> Hi Carl,

> It's becoming more and more evident that

> testing

> for mold is

[Guest guest]

Lori,

> I'm kind of confused by some of this -- I know you might not like to

> say this but are you saying people should or should not use these

> kits?

I'm glad you asked this question because it is important. I'm not

saying you should or shouldn't use these kits or any other kit or

even " professional " testing. What I am saying is that if you don't

understand what the kits can and cannot do then you don't know what

the results can and cannot show. You are assuming your question is

being answered in the way you intend. Maybe, maybe not. If you don't

know what the results mean, especially with their limitations, then

you may make a costly decision.

Quite frankly, there are some situations where I'd believe the ProLab

and similar type home test kits before I'd believe results from the

" professional appearing " consultants and remediators. Like the one

in my Mold Challange series of posts, for example. Or another last

week that wanted $8,000 to remediate the attic based on his tests

(conflict of interest!) to protect the 6 month old child with

respiratory problems (fear!). There was no way the attic was a

problem. But there was a way for a problem with how that same company

had improperly remediated mold from a broken water pipe (diversion of

attention).

The more critical your decision the more critical the accuracy of the

information you base it on; and, the more critical that you

understand these intricacies or find the right professional who does.

You don't go to a brain surgeon for a heart operation. The

information, decision and selection must be appropriate to the

situation.

For many on this group wrong decisions can be (and have already

been!) devastating to finances, families and health. But the

inadvertant " appearance " or " implication " has been that home testing

can provide critical answers for critical situations at a much lower

cost than professional testing. This is a dangerous assumption!

Another dangerous assumption is that mold testing is consistent,

uniform and definitive. It's not! Even in the right hands. But what

the " right hands " can provide is reliable help and guidance based on

their education, training, experience and ethics.

So make your choices about when and how to use any testing. My

admonition is to research, understand and trust the information you

use as the basis for those choices.

> To me the main purpose of them for myself was to determine if there

> was mold at all, especially from our air conditioner. Now, I still

> have not gotten my results back -- which is the worst part of the

> test, as far as I'm concerned.

This is a problem. Culturing takes time but no more than two weeks,

generally. This is why there is more reliance on the cassette-type

spore traps using a microscope. They can be analyzed in a few hours.

BUT they have their own set of limitations that must be understood as

well.

> And I also wanted to have some idea if

> there was mold in the A/C unit, what type of might be. But I would

> never consider this a definitive test or something I would use in

> litigation or something like that. I think that's clear that it is an

> inexpensive test and it's just for basic testing.

Lori, you understand the difference. But others on the group that are

new or just learning may not. I'd rather err with the " veterans " than

with the novices.

> I am confused about the liquids needing to be " mixed. " As far as I

> can tell my liquid did not need to be mixed, and it said nothing about

> a clean area.

That is probably the most valuable part of the Consumer Reports

story. The instructions did not specify that pouring the liquid in a

moldy area can contaminate the plate and the liquid before it is even

exposed.

> We poured the media in, which was a liquid but became a

> gel, and then we covered the plate and let it set for an hour. Was

> this right?

If that was what the instructions said.

> We just did it in our kitchen, no special place.

Was the mold in the kitchen representative of the mold in the air

conditioner? If so, then it made no difference. But that's what you

don't know. What I'd suggest is that you mix two plates in the same

place at the same time. Expose one to the air conditioner and keep

the other closed. But send both to the lab. Compare the differences.

This is what professionals do, especially for litigation. They

include at least one plate that hasn't been opened to confirm that

the mold came from the site and not from a contaminated plate.

If you want a general idea about a general area then there should be

no misleading readings caused by where you poured the liquid into the

culture plate.

But let's use your situation (I think it was you) where a radiator

was swabbed. Suppose the results came back with Stachybotrys. You'd

conclude that Stachybotrys was on your radiator - extremely unlikely.

But you would then focus on cleaning the radiator and ignoring the

real source of the spores that contaminated the plate.

Remember, also, that ProLab in their rebuttal letter concluded with

these words: " The kits are best used in combination with a thorough

inspection to detect any macroscopically visible mold growth. "

Carl Grimes

Healthy Habitats, LLC

[Guest guest]

Barb1283,

Thanks for your forthright replies. It helps everyone to gain a

better understanding. So please understand that some of my responses

here and elsewhere are with others in mind and not directly only at

you.

I've answered most of the points in my previous response to you and

to Lori. I'll just include the different ones here.

> I assume everything method has flaws and don't

> expect any test to be perfect so I'm not shocked

> by report or turned off to ProLab.

Not shocked. But your interpretation of results should be altered.

And I'm not trying to turn you off to ProLab or anyone else.

> Within a day a very big colony growing. Don't

> know if that was one spore or cluster but assume

> cluster since it got very large very fast and I

> just had it out for half hours.

How about a fast growing mold that is rarely if ever toxigenic?

Especially since Stachybotrys, which is more often toxigenic, grows

VERY slowly, requiring days to even become visible. Clusters don't

necessrily grow colonies faster. Do triplet babies gestate in less

than 9 months?

> I know that may

> not seem bad to mold testor but I'm looking for

> cleanest place I can find.

What other locations did you test so you could pick the cleanest of

them?

> The hotel is

> extremely neat and well maintained inside and

> out, smells clean. I saw not even any dust

> anywhere in hotel, lobby, halls, room, etc.

If you didn't react to these clean conditions why spend time, energy

and money on testing or anything else?

> With

> Jeff May pointing out that a/c units are mold

> pits, I decided to ask for it to be cleaned out.

> There was a black *sludge* inside. It looked

> awful. Person cleaned out the sludge and the

> filter.

Excellent! I have no problem with that and I have no problem with

testing before or after. I'm just suggesting that a test isn't needed

to determine the action. As a way of gaining more information and

experience about mold, though, this is fine. This is how we all

begin. With added experience the need for testing decreases and

becomes more finely tuned.

> I redid test both without a/c on and

> with a/c on and after a week I have NOTHING

> growing in culture plate,

Good comparison.

> so cleaning the a/c

> took alot of mold out of air.

That's a risky conclusion that I wouldn't make. If there is zero mold

on the plate than it's likely you have a false negative. There is

always mold in the air so why didn't the test find that? If it didn't

find what is already there then maybe it didn't find any from am

active source like the a/c.

> ... it is

> one tool and I am not turned off to ProLab.

I'm not trying to turn you, or anyone else, off to ProLab or any

other source or type of testing. But it is important that results be

understood for what they are, not for what we think they are. Or for

what we hope they are or want them to be. That makes us no different

the the corrupt researchers that Sharon Kramer keeps uncovering.

> I think putting a mold testing kit is the ailes

> of all grocery stores and drug stores, and

> hardware stores is a great idea. If one of the

> other culture plate companies would do that, I

> would be glad and they can compete with ProLab

There are others. Some market theirs a different way. Others decided

for a variety of reasons to not market to the general public - or

they didn't bet the exclusive agreement first. I personally think

that ProLab is at great risk for putting test kits into the hands of

those without appropriate knowledge and without adequate instruction.

The " new " instruction about pouring the liquid into the plate in a

clean area may reveal that risk.

> I think

> they do mold detection industry a great favor by

> being out there.

I actually agree with this because I get more work because of these

kits. However, most of the jobs triggered by home test kits are from

false positive results and misinterpretation. Those jobs divert me

from people with a real problem. I already have a full business.

> I'm sorry that they have bragged about

> endorsements that may not be accurate

Bragging? What about misrepresentation or outright lying? Doesn't

this make a difference? Your basis for recommending them was the list

of organizations that " vouched' for them. But the " vouching " was at

least partially false if not misleading. If they present some false

information, how do you determine what is true? Wht is the basis of

your trust?

> but in the

> world I've come to know, sales statements are

> pretty inflated across the board and usually

> written by marketing people rather than the

> scientist or real knowledgeable people.

First, the instuctions for using the plates should not be inflated

sales information. It should be written by the scientists and " real

knowledgeable people. " Second, because what you say is true about

rampant misrepresentation, how do you select from among them?

I don't mean to be picking on you, Barb, and I hope I'm not coming

off as harsh or judgemental. You are active and brave enough to state

your opinion and then listen to responses. I value your participation

because I'm sure there are many others in this group with similar

questions and concerns. My responces are not only for you but for

others that are reading them.

Carl Grimes

Healthy Habitats LLC

[Guest guest]

bbw,

A few clarifications are needed.

> I considered fact that pouring liquid in could

> get mold in there but it would be coming from

> your home or should and only takes a second. I

> think it is nit picking.

See my example at the end at the response to Lori. It depends on what

you are asking. Sometimes it is nitpicking but other times incredibly

misleading that can result in wasted money and effort on the wrong

location. It can even indicate a " mold problem " when there is none.

That is why false postive results can be as misleading as false

negative results.

> My feeling is that Consumer Report could have

> gotten idea that Pro Lab is flawed by forces on

> the other side of the mold litagation issue.

Maybe. But this argument is ignoring the importance of understanding

the strengths and weaknesses of any type of testing. Professional

testing and labs have " flaws " also. But they are known and accounted

for with the better ones. Also, why mistrust " the other side " but not

a company that profits by misuse and mis-interpretation?

> Think of the impact of many people who know

> nothing about mold all of a sudden being able to

> easily take a test of their home themselves.

This is a double-edged sword that I am ambivalent about. I agree with

your statement IF the tests had a known meaning that anybody could

understand. Like a pregnancy test, or a diabetes monitor or the DNA

tests. But even those must be confirmed by an appropriate expert.

But that is not how these tests are being promoted. They are

implying, by ommission at least, that they are definitive. And the

suggested response is to take more samples. That's sales promotion.

The response should be to use this as a general screen for deciding

whether or not a professional should be hired to make a meaningful

assessment. Otherwise it could be exploitation. And we've all had

enough of that.

One of the risks is that of false positive results that could

convince the unwary to buy more plates, start remediation or file a

law suit. The risk of a false positive has been even higher than

anticipated now with the clairification that the plates should be

poured in a " near sterile " environment.

> doubt that Consumer Report people could be bought

> but the forces on the other side of mold

> litagation can be presented as mold experts and

> could have written to Consumer Report and

> complained about their testing, just like we know

> that Dr Marinkovich and Dr Shoemaker and other

> doctors who are willing to do something about

> mold have been complained about to medical

> boards.

So how do you decide who to trust and who not to trust? When do we

(all of us) ignore information and when do we change our opinion and

alter our choices? There is a discussion at IEQuality about how

experts decide which studies to rely on, which to ignore and when

they change their mind. Sounds like we are all in the same boat on

this issue.

Carl Grimes

Healthy Habitats LLC

[Guest guest]

Barb1283 wrote:

> I also think that air quality problems are bound

> to be MUCH worse in low income housing because

> they will not be maintained as well as housing

> that costs more, so for people with not much

> money to spend at the time, it is the only thing

> they could probably afford to spend.

I agree that the low income have less resources. But Bianca Jagger,

Borkovich, Melinda Ballard were not in low income housing with

limited resources. Fifth Avenue apartments (correct name?) in

Manhatten are not low income. Jordan's house was not low

income.

The distinctive differences are how long it takes to correctly

identify the problem, how long it takes to act and how appropriate

the action is. Homeowners can act on their own. Those in condos,

townhouses, rentals and HUD housing cannot act on their own. They

must rely on the manager or owner. Severe mold happens at all income

levels and mold is not the only indoor air quality problem.

Low cost structures aren't the key either. I'm currently representing

the buyer of a house that is still under construction. The battle has

been ongoing for 5 months. The purchase price is $6 million dollars

and the moisture, mold and other IAQ issues are some of the worst

I've seen. Thousands of low income houses and apartments have been

built cheaply without problems.

Carl Grimes

Healthy Habitats LLC

-----

They aren't

> going to go out and hire professional testors,

> unless things get to a point where they are

> involved in some litagation and expect to get it

> back in lawsuit.

>

> If there are expert that think Pro Lab is not

> good enough, they should put their own kits out

> there (I don't mean you incidentally. I mean

> whoever is responsible for the Pro Lab story),

> right next to Pro Lab and help people get better

> testing for an inexpensive fee.

>

> I think whoever thought up Pro Lab concept did a

> good job. The vial that culture medium comes in

> is very tiny and has very little air room in it.

> No doubt some could get contaminated but I think

> it is small. It tells you to pour it in, wait an

> hour and then use it but I have made them up

> ahead of time lately since I am apartment

> shopping and want to have some ready, so they

> have sit around for a few days and ones I have

> had didn't grow anything until I exposed them.

> Contamination could happen to any company that

> puts out such a product.

>

> I think there should be kits next to every

> pharmacy pick up windows so poor people stuck

> with taking pills might carry one home and find

> they have mold problems instead of health

> problems.

>

> I suspect a smear job against Pro Lab for making

> knowledge of mold available to so many people

> inexpensively, like smear job on Dr Marinkovich,

> Dr Shoemaker and others who are not keeping the

> mold problems secret.

>

> Incidentally this post in not in anger. It's so

> hard to respond to emails without sounding that

> way but just giving my opinion of Pro Lab based

> on my experience with them and the Consumer

> Reports report, which complains of things I think

> could be leveled at any company that does mold

> testing and reporting since as you have pointed

> out, it is tricky thing and has many variables,

> even for the most experienced experts.

>

> --- bbw <barb1283@...> wrote:

>

> > Hi Carl,

> > It's becoming more and more evident that

> > testing

> > for mold is

>

>

>

>

> FAIR USE NOTICE:

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Re: reacting to my hotel room

I'm coughing an awful lot and not doing well so

will have to pay attention to changes on being in

room and not. I'm suspicious now of all a/c

window units. The one in room was really nasty

with black slime. Room tested very clean after

it was cleaned. I tested it with a/c on and with

a/c off but it wasn't exactly 'clean' when he

finished so I assume will grow back in short

time. Perhaps I need to ask again for a

cleaning. Hopefully I will find an apartment

soon that I can tolerate since I would like to

not be sleeping with that a/c in my room. I

would keep it off but the units drop water in

back of building which is a little swappy, so not

sure how 'fresh' air would be and if I leave

window closed and a/c off, room doesn't seem

fresh and humidity goes up. I have humidity

gauge in room.

--- " Carl E. Grimes " <grimes@...> wrote:

> bbw,

>

> A few clarifications are needed.

>

> > I considered fact that pouring liquid in

> could

[Guest guest]

I'm sorry you're having more problems. Ask them to clean the a/c

again to see if the black slime did grow back. If so, that may be the

problem. If not, then it is something else. Consider that there may

be multiple sources. That is often the case when fixing one item

helps but only for awhile. Are you on the first floor or at a higher

level? If higher you may be okay opening the window. Since you have a

humidity gauge, what kind is it and what has it been reading?

Carl Grimes

Healthy Habitats LLC

-----

> Re: reacting to my hotel room

> I'm coughing an awful lot and not doing well so

> will have to pay attention to changes on being in

> room and not. I'm suspicious now of all a/c

> window units. The one in room was really nasty

> with black slime. Room tested very clean after

> it was cleaned. I tested it with a/c on and with

> a/c off but it wasn't exactly 'clean' when he

> finished so I assume will grow back in short

> time. Perhaps I need to ask again for a

> cleaning. Hopefully I will find an apartment

> soon that I can tolerate since I would like to

> not be sleeping with that a/c in my room. I

> would keep it off but the units drop water in

> back of building which is a little swappy, so not

> sure how 'fresh' air would be and if I leave

> window closed and a/c off, room doesn't seem

> fresh and humidity goes up. I have humidity

> gauge in room.

>

> --- " Carl E. Grimes " <grimes@...> wrote:

>

> > bbw,

> >

> > A few clarifications are needed.

> >

> > > I considered fact that pouring liquid in

> > could

>

>

>

>

>

> FAIR USE NOTICE:

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hey Barb,

This is again very interesting. We bought a brand new window AC unit for my

room upstairs about three months or so ago. It is suppose to be one of those

nice ones with a dehumidifier, auto temp etc. It has to work pretty hard to cool

off the entire room so the other day we moved it to the side of the room I spend

most of my time near my bed. The next morning I woke up and was really stuffy,

had a headache etc.

My point is that I think I agree with you that they can do something bad fast.

I can't say it is growing anything but at the very least I don't think it is

good to have them blowing near you. I think you are onto something maybe.

Chris...

bbw <barb1283@...> wrote:

Re: reacting to my hotel room

I'm coughing an awful lot and not doing well so

will have to pay attention to changes on being in

room and not. I'm suspicious now of all a/c

window units. The one in room was really nasty

with black slime. Room tested very clean after

it was cleaned. I tested it with a/c on and with

a/c off but it wasn't exactly 'clean' when he

finished so I assume will grow back in short

time. Perhaps I need to ask again for a

cleaning. Hopefully I will find an apartment

soon that I can tolerate since I would like to

not be sleeping with that a/c in my room. I

would keep it off but the units drop water in

back of building which is a little swappy, so not

sure how 'fresh' air would be and if I leave

window closed and a/c off, room doesn't seem

fresh and humidity goes up. I have humidity

gauge in room.

--- " Carl E. Grimes " <grimes@...> wrote:

> bbw,

>

> A few clarifications are needed.

>

> > I considered fact that pouring liquid in

> could

Life is a balance of holding on and letting go...

---------------------------------

Talk is cheap. Use Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls. Great rates

starting at 1¢/min.

[Guest guest]

I got it at National Allergy Supply. Its an

Accurite or something like that. I think it's

pretty accurate.

Humidity was about 55% and so I turned on air to

get water out of air. Within about half an hour

humidity was down to 45% or so, so I turned a/c

off but then it was too cold for me, so I turned

on HEAT. I thought that would drive down

humidity even FURTHER and it would be both warm

and dry but humidity went up with heat. I don't

understand that. EITHER water is standing in

unit and heat kicks it up and back into room

(along with contents of sludge) because air

doesn't seem 'fresh' anymore, OR unit

automatically puts out humidity with heat, a

combination action meant for winter dry

conditions. Anyhow I had to turn a/c back on and

put a jacket on. Maybe I could ask if they have

any more studios coming available and check

outside those windows and see if swampy

conditions are absent, or perhaps ask for third

floor unit. Otherwise place seems emaculatly

maintained but the a/c is dirty so its a problem.

I'm looking at apartments with hardwood floors,

baseboard heaters and no a/c or one I can remove

and put in my own. If they pass my (Home Depot)

culture plate tests or Dallas culture plate tests

I will feel comfortable moving in. Another thing

I've found helpful is to check the toilet tank.

Due to the humidity, if there is alot of mold in

the air, toilet tank will have moldy lid.

--- " Carl E. Grimes " <grimes@...> wrote:

> I'm sorry you're having more problems. Ask them

> to clean the a/c

> again to see if the black slime did grow back.

> If so, that may be the

> problem.

[Guest guest]

You can open them up and look. When maintenance

guy opened it up here, the standing water was

clearly visible. He mop it up with cloth.

--- Tazin Round <unitedstatesvet@...>

wrote:

> Hey Barb,

> This is again very interesting. We bought a

> brand new window AC unit for my room upstairs

> about three months or so ago. It is suppose to

> be one of those nice ones with a dehumidifier,

> auto temp etc. It has to work pretty hard to

> cool off the entire room so the other day we

> moved it to the side of the room I spend most

> of my time near my bed. The next morning I woke

> up and was really stuffy, had a headache etc.

> My point is that I think I agree with you

> that they can do something bad fast. I can't

> say it is growing anything but at the very

> least I don't think it is good to have them

> blowing near you. I think you are onto

> something maybe.

> Chris...

>

> bbw <barb1283@...> wrote:

> Re: reacting to my hotel room

> I'm coughing an awful lot and not doing well so

> will have to pay attention to changes on being

> in

> room and not. I'm suspicious now of all a/c

> window units. The one in room was really nasty

> with black slime. Room tested very clean after

> it was cleaned. I tested it with a/c on and

> with

> a/c off but it wasn't exactly 'clean' when he

> finished so I assume will grow back in short

> time. Perhaps I need to ask again for a

> cleaning. Hopefully I will find an apartment

> soon that I can tolerate since I would like to

> not be sleeping with that a/c in my room. I

> would keep it off but the units drop water in

> back of building which is a little swappy, so

> not

> sure how 'fresh' air would be and if I leave

> window closed and a/c off, room doesn't seem

> fresh and humidity goes up. I have humidity

> gauge in room.

>

> --- " Carl E. Grimes " <grimes@...>

> wrote:

>

> > bbw,

> >

> > A few clarifications are needed.

> >

> > > I considered fact that pouring liquid in

> > could

>

>

>

>

>

>

> Life is a balance of holding on and letting

> go...

>

> ---------------------------------

> Talk is cheap. Use Messenger to make

> PC-to-Phone calls. Great rates starting at

> 1¢/min.

>

> [Non-text portions of this message have been

> removed]

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Barb,

By your description I believe it is the meter you are using. All the meters I

use do the same thing. I believe this goes back to what Mr. Grimes said about

relative and actual humidity. Ours are reading relative humidity which will

automatically go up and down based on the temperature. RH is calculated based

along with the temperature. Mine also looks like it is more humid at night when

the temp goes down and lower during day when temp goes up, but this is not

actual humidity. So as you turn heater on and warm the room up the " relative "

humidity will rise due to the temp not the actual humidity level.

Chris...

bbw <barb1283@...> wrote:

I got it at National Allergy Supply. Its an

Accurite or something like that. I think it's

pretty accurate.

Humidity was about 55% and so I turned on air to

get water out of air. Within about half an hour

humidity was down to 45% or so, so I turned a/c

off but then it was too cold for me, so I turned

on HEAT. I thought that would drive down

humidity even FURTHER and it would be both warm

and dry but humidity went up with heat. I don't

understand that. EITHER water is standing in

unit and heat kicks it up and back into room

(along with contents of sludge) because air

doesn't seem 'fresh' anymore, OR unit

automatically puts out humidity with heat, a

combination action meant for winter dry

conditions. Anyhow I had to turn a/c back on and

put a jacket on. Maybe I could ask if they have

any more studios coming available and check

outside those windows and see if swampy

conditions are absent, or perhaps ask for third

floor unit. Otherwise place seems emaculatly

maintained but the a/c is dirty so its a problem.

I'm looking at apartments with hardwood floors,

baseboard heaters and no a/c or one I can remove

and put in my own. If they pass my (Home Depot)

culture plate tests or Dallas culture plate tests

I will feel comfortable moving in. Another thing

I've found helpful is to check the toilet tank.

Due to the humidity, if there is alot of mold in

the air, toilet tank will have moldy lid.

--- " Carl E. Grimes " <grimes@...> wrote:

> I'm sorry you're having more problems. Ask them

> to clean the a/c

> again to see if the black slime did grow back.

> If so, that may be the

> problem.

Life is a balance of holding on and letting go...

---------------------------------

Stay in the know. Pulse on the new .com. Check it out.

[Guest guest]

You said it the way I think it is first, as

temperature goes up, RH goes down. So, what I

was saying was in this case it went up with

temperature which is opposite of what it should

have done SO it is either picking humidity up

from the black sludge that is sitting in bottom

or a/c OR it is designed specifically to humidify

when it heats. Unfortunately since it smells of

dirty socks when I turn heat on, I think it is

dirty sludge water being pulled up with heat and

fan from bottom on a/c.

--- Tazin Round <unitedstatesvet@...>

wrote:

> Barb,

> By your description I believe it is the meter

> you are using. All the meters I use do the same

> thing. I believe this goes back to what Mr.

> Grimes said about relative and actual humidity.

> Ours are reading relative humidity which will

> automatically go up and down based on the

> temperature. RH is calculated based along with

> the temperature. Mine also looks like it is

> more humid at night when the temp goes down and

> lower during day when temp goes up, but this is

> not actual humidity. So as you turn heater on

> and warm the room up the " relative " humidity

> will rise due to the temp not the actual

> humidity level.

> Chris...

>

> bbw <barb1283@...> wrote:

> I got it at National Allergy Supply.

> Its an

> Accurite or something like that. I think it's

> pretty accurate.

> Humidity was about 55% and so I turned on air

> to

> get water out of air. Within about half an hour

> humidity was down to 45% or so, so I turned a/c

> off but then it was too cold for me, so I

> turned

> on HEAT. I thought that would drive down

> humidity even FURTHER and it would be both warm

> and dry but humidity went up with heat. I don't

> understand that. EITHER water is standing in

> unit and heat kicks it up and back into room

> (along with contents of sludge) because air

> doesn't seem 'fresh' anymore, OR unit

> automatically puts out humidity with heat, a

> combination action meant for winter dry

> conditions. Anyhow I had to turn a/c back on

> and

> put a jacket on. Maybe I could ask if they have

> any more studios coming available and check

> outside those windows and see if swampy

> conditions are absent, or perhaps ask for third

> floor unit. Otherwise place seems emaculatly

> maintained but the a/c is dirty so its a

> problem.

>

> I'm looking at apartments with hardwood floors,

> baseboard heaters and no a/c or one I can

> remove

> and put in my own. If they pass my (Home Depot)

> culture plate tests or Dallas culture plate

> tests

> I will feel comfortable moving in. Another

> thing

> I've found helpful is to check the toilet tank.

>

> Due to the humidity, if there is alot of mold

> in

> the air, toilet tank will have moldy lid.

>