Guest guest Posted September 9, 2006 Report Posted September 9, 2006 Hi Carl, Competence is important and doing it right can save alot of money is key. However I have had expensive, lazy lawyers so don't use what they charge as key either. Two fancy high cost lawyers can do a bad job too. I had two who were pressuring me to provide to them some information for them to do a 'Final Accounting' for an estate for which they were proposing to charge me a good sum of money to do, to wind up an estate I needed to settle but I was sick and was having trouble getting the info together but worried about it and also concerned for amount they stated it might cost. Two that I consulted were offering their services for a very big fee. One actually said, " he can do it but it would **COST** me " . That was exact sentence he used. What kind of lowcast jerk of a thing to say to a decent person willing to pay for his services. You'd think I was asking him to bump someone off. I came with a 100.00 check to cover the one half hour first appt I had with him. You would think he had done a lot of free work for me already but not one minute of free time. I never said anything about FREE, and he bothered to mention it would cost me. What that sounded like to me, is that there was a word missing that was 'understood', and that word was 'plenty'. It would cost me plenty. Ridiculous. I wanted to do it myself but I was feeling sick already. To make a long story short, complaining about how much they wanted to someone who was doing handy work for me who had a lawyer he had used for divorce, he said was reasonable and not far from where I live. I called him and asked if he did estate and he said yes. I went in with my things and he informed me that I had already done EVERYTHING there needed to be done to close estate myself and neither of these jerks had told me that. He said since there is only one person in your aunt's estate, moi, you don't need to do a final accounting (since the final accounting is really for the heirs so I would essentially be doing it for myself to look at!!!). He said just filing the estate tax return and paying the taxes on the estate to my state is all I needed. He said did I get a notice from my state that estate tax filing was approved and said it was paid in full. I said I did have that. He said just take that down to courthouse and file that and you are done. I had done THAT part, filing and paying estate tax right immediately after person died, two years before, so I worried for two years over this final accounting for nothing. Lawyers saw that and thought she doesn't know so it will 'cost her plenty'. What you don't know in general will cost you plenty in all things it turns out. Other lawyers were very well credentialed, both of them. One who said he would do it but it would COST me, was an accountant and attorney and specialized in probate, which it was, at least it was one thing he listed as his area of expertise. The lawyer who told me it was already done, didn't charge me anything for his time, just said to remember him if I needed other work done. Other lawyer willing to charge me for this work that didn't need to be done was fancy trial attorney I knew from the one and only law case I was involved with and did win, against a broker who took advantage of my aunt after she had a stroke and couldn't remember broker called her almost daily and sold and resold stock...won that one with his law firm but even THEY (his collegues) thought he had overcharged me on that bill and reduced his bill for what work he did, even though I had said nothing. They looked at the bill and at each other and crossed off amount and reduced it by about 50% (it was 600.00 for a power of attorney that was drawn up. It was a little hard because my aunt's ability to understand were marginal but he just should have been charging for time but he charged for every time he picked up the phone or read an email etc. I saw his bill, ridiculous really). His collegues reduced his bill to 400.00 without calling him about it. I could go on and on about him. I went to court with him one day, paying for his time and tried to talk to him and was having trouble getting answers since he was busy talking to another lawyer, comparing where they had gone for vacation that year. I have found a lawyer that will not talk to you for -AWHILE- for free, not to be worth talking to at all, results from other experience with lawyers too. I flat out didn't pay another attorney who billed me for a very long conversation -which normally I would have paid for- in which he primarily asked me questions that were very off the topic, like your aunt sounds like she was a neat lady and asked alot of questions about the family, etc., etc. and didn't have any advice for me. (He said bill might be large since he had to study up on it as 'case' was so unusual.) I told him I wouldn't pay his bill as he gave me no helpful advice and told him if he wanted someone to pay for his education, he should contact his parents if they were still living. It was something like 2 hours on a Saturday and I came away knowing no more than I went in knowing. Generally I have found no matter what professional you are refering to: doctor, lawyer, etc, if -YOU- don't know what you are doing, it will COST you. That one guy was just too stupid to keep his thoughts to himself. I had a lot of experience with lawyers due to taking care of relative who lived from 90 to 100 who couldn't make any decisions anymore for herself, so probate, health things, estate...Oh, glad I'm done with them for awhile. --- " Carl E. Grimes " <grimes@...> wrote: > , > > Well said. I'd add another to the reasons why > trials go the way they > do. When the plaintiff and defense attorneys > can't agree on what > information will be Quote
Guest guest Posted September 9, 2006 Report Posted September 9, 2006 bbw, Oh, if only we had the knowledge and experience to figure our way through problems with the indoor environment, like you do with lawyers! Until then, we will keep shooting ourselves in the foot. The good news is we soon learn where our feet are and begin aiming in other directions. After many near misses a few of us eventually hit a target. Carl Grimes Healthy Habitats LLC ----- > Hi Carl, > Competence is important and doing it right can > save alot of money is key. However I have had > expensive, lazy lawyers so don't use what they > charge as key either. Two fancy high cost > lawyers can do a bad job too. I had two who were > pressuring me to provide to them some information > for them to do a 'Final Accounting' for an estate > for which they were proposing to charge me a good > sum of money to do, to wind up an estate I needed > to settle but I was sick and was having trouble > getting the info together but worried about it > and also concerned for amount they stated it > might cost. Two that I consulted were offering > their services for a very big fee. One actually > said, " he can do it but it would **COST** me " . > That was exact sentence he used. What kind of > lowcast jerk of a thing to say to a decent person > willing to pay for his services. You'd think I > was asking him to bump someone off. I came with > a 100.00 check to cover the one half hour first > appt I had with him. You would think he had done > a lot of free work for me already but not one > minute of free time. I never said anything about > FREE, and he bothered to mention it would cost > me. What that sounded like to me, is that there > was a word missing that was 'understood', and > that word was 'plenty'. It would cost me plenty. > Ridiculous. I wanted to do it myself but I was > feeling sick already. > > To make a long story short, complaining about how > much they wanted to someone who was doing handy > work for me who had a lawyer he had used for > divorce, he said was reasonable and not far from > where I live. I called him and asked if he did > estate and he said yes. I went in with my things > and he informed me that I had already done > EVERYTHING there needed to be done to close > estate myself and neither of these jerks had told > me that. He said since there is only one person > in your aunt's estate, moi, you don't need to do > a final accounting (since the final accounting is > really for the heirs so I would essentially be > doing it for myself to look at!!!). He said just > filing the estate tax return and paying the taxes > on the estate to my state is all I needed. He > said did I get a notice from my state that estate > tax filing was approved and said it was paid in > full. I said I did have that. He said just take > that down to courthouse and file that and you are > done. I had done THAT part, filing and paying > estate tax right immediately after person died, > two years before, so I worried for two years over > this final accounting for nothing. Lawyers saw > that and thought she doesn't know so it will > 'cost her plenty'. What you don't know in > general will cost you plenty in all things it > turns out. > > Other lawyers were very well credentialed, both > of them. One who said he would do it but it > would COST me, was an accountant and attorney and > specialized in probate, which it was, at least it > was one thing he listed as his area of expertise. > The lawyer who told me it was already done, > didn't charge me anything for his time, just said > to remember him if I needed other work done. > Other lawyer willing to charge me for this work > that didn't need to be done was fancy trial > attorney I knew from the one and only law case I > was involved with and did win, against a broker > who took advantage of my aunt after she had a > stroke and couldn't remember broker called her > almost daily and sold and resold stock...won that > one with his law firm but even THEY (his > collegues) thought he had overcharged me on that > bill and reduced his bill for what work he did, > even though I had said nothing. They looked at > the bill and at each other and crossed off amount > and reduced it by about 50% (it was 600.00 for a > power of attorney that was drawn up. It was a > little hard because my aunt's ability to > understand were marginal but he just should have > been charging for time but he charged for every > time he picked up the phone or read an email etc. > I saw his bill, ridiculous really). His > collegues reduced his bill to 400.00 without > calling him about it. I could go on and on about > him. I went to court with him one day, paying > for his time and tried to talk to him and was > having trouble getting answers since he was busy > talking to another lawyer, comparing where they > had gone for vacation that year. > > I have found a lawyer that will not talk to you > for -AWHILE- for free, not to be worth talking to > at all, results from other experience with > lawyers too. > > I flat out didn't pay another attorney who billed > me for a very long conversation -which normally I > would have paid for- in which he primarily asked > me questions that were very off the topic, like > your aunt sounds like she was a neat lady and > asked alot of questions about the family, etc., > etc. and didn't have any advice for me. (He > said bill might be large since he had to study up > on it as 'case' was so unusual.) I told him I > wouldn't pay his bill as he gave me no helpful > advice and told him if he wanted someone to pay > for his education, he should contact his parents > if they were still living. It was something like > 2 hours on a Saturday and I came away knowing no > more than I went in knowing. > > Generally I have found no matter what > professional you are refering to: doctor, lawyer, > etc, if -YOU- don't know what you are doing, it > will COST you. That one guy was just too stupid > to keep his thoughts to himself. > > I had a lot of experience with lawyers due to > taking care of relative who lived from 90 to 100 > who couldn't make any decisions anymore for > herself, so probate, health things, estate...Oh, > glad I'm done with them for awhile. > > --- " Carl E. Grimes " <grimes@...> wrote: > > > , > > > > Well said. I'd add another to the reasons why > > trials go the way they > > do. When the plaintiff and defense attorneys > > can't agree on what > > information will be > > > > > > FAIR USE NOTICE: > > > Quote
Guest guest Posted September 9, 2006 Report Posted September 9, 2006 I learned why lawyers are the butt of a lot of jokes. Apologies for any good ones that may read in this group. Anyway, I remember I did pay the one lawyer who spent time on a Saturday but I paid what I thought the meeting was worth, which was a lot less than he had figured. --- " Carl E. Grimes " <grimes@...> wrote: > bbw, > > Oh, if only we had the knowledge and experience > to figure our way > through problems with the indoor environment, > like you do Quote
Guest guest Posted September 9, 2006 Report Posted September 9, 2006 Barb, I am happy for you that you found the right attorney to help guide you and that your situation worked out. Most attorneys because of the potential pitfalls are not geared towards helping their clients to do simple tasks themselves (as the client who performs the task rather than the attorney). In a message dated 9/8/2006 10:52:47 PM Central Standard Time, barb1283@... writes: Hi Carl, Competence is important and doing it right can save alot of money is key. However I have had expensive, lazy lawyers so don't use what they charge as key either. Two fancy high cost lawyers can do a bad job too. I had two who were pressuring me to provide to them some information for them to do a 'Final Accounting' for an estate for which they were proposing to charge me a good sum of money to do, to wind up an estate I needed to settle but I was sick and was having trouble getting the info together but worried about it and also concerned for amount they stated it might cost. Two that I consulted were offering their services for a very big fee. One actually said, " he can do it but it would **COST** me " . That was exact sentence he used. What kind of lowcast jerk of a thing to say to a decent person willing to pay for his services. You'd think I was asking him to bump someone off. I came with a 100.00 check to cover the one half hour first appt I had with him. You would think he had done a lot of free work for me already but not one minute of free time. I never said anything about FREE, and he bothered to mention it would cost me. What that sounded like to me, is that there was a word missing that was 'understood'was a that word was 'plenty'. It would cost me plenty. Ridiculous. I wanted to do it myself but I was feeling sick already. To make a long story short, complaining about how much they wanted to someone who was doing handy work for me who had a lawyer he had used for divorce, he said was reasonable and not far from where I live. I called him and asked if he did estate and he said yes. I went in with my things and he informed me that I had already done EVERYTHING there needed to be done to close estate myself and neither of these jerks had told me that. He said since there is only one person in your aunt's estate, moi, you don't need to do a final accounting (since the final accounting is really for the heirs so I would essentially be doing it for myself to look at!!!). He said just filing the estate tax return and paying the taxes on the estate to my state is all I needed. He said did I get a notice from my state that estate tax filing was approved and said it was paid in full. I said I did have that. He said just take that down to courthouse and file that and you are done. I had done THAT part, filing and paying estate tax right immediately after person died, two years before, so I worried for two years over this final accounting for nothing. Lawyers saw that and thought she doesn't know so it will 'cost her plenty'. What you don't know in general will cost you plenty in all things it turns out. Other lawyers were very well credentialed, both of them. One who said he would do it but it would COST me, was an accountant and attorney and specialized in probate, which it was, at least it was one thing he listed as his area of expertise. The lawyer who told me it was already done, didn't charge me anything for his time, just said to remember him if I needed other work done. Other lawyer willing to charge me for this work that didn't need to be done was fancy trial attorney I knew from the one and only law case I was involved with and did win, against a broker who took advantage of my aunt after she had a stroke and couldn't remember broker called her almost daily and sold and resold stock...won that one with his law firm but even THEY (his collegues) thought he had overcharged me on that bill and reduced his bill for what work he did, even though I had said nothing. They looked at the bill and at each other and crossed off amount and reduced it by about 50% (it was 600.00 for a power of attorney that was drawn up. It was a little hard because my aunt's ability to understand were marginal but he just should have been charging for time but he charged for every time he picked up the phone or read an email etc. I saw his bill, ridiculous really). His collegues reduced his bill to 400.00 without calling him about it. I could go on and on about him. I went to court with him one day, paying for his time and tried to talk to him and was having trouble getting answers since he was busy talking to another lawyer, comparing where they had gone for vacation that year. I have found a lawyer that will not talk to you for -AWHILE- for free, not to be worth talking to at all, results from other experience with lawyers too. I flat out didn't pay another attorney who billed me for a very long conversation -which normally I would have paid for- in which he primarily asked me questions that were very off the topic, like your aunt sounds like she was a neat lady and asked alot of questions about the family, etc., etc. and didn't have any advice for me. (He said bill might be large since he had to study up on it as 'case' was so unusual.) I told him I wouldn't pay his bill as he gave me no helpful advice and told him if he wanted someone to pay for his education, he should contact his parents if they were still living. It was something like 2 hours on a Saturday and I came away knowing no more than I went in knowing. Generally I have found no matter what professional you are refering to: doctor, lawyer, etc, if -YOU- don't know what you are doing, it will COST you. That one guy was just too stupid to keep his thoughts to himself. I had a lot of experience with lawyers due to taking care of relative who lived from 90 to 100 who couldn't make any decisions anymore for herself, so probate, health things, estate...Oh, glad I'm done with them for awhile. --- " Carl E. Grimes " <_grimes@..._ (mailto:grimes@...) > wrote: > , > > Well said. I'd add another to the reasons why > trials go the way they > do. When the plaintiff and defense attorneys > can't agree on what > information will be _Messages in this topic _ (/message/42229;_ylc=X3oDMTM0dDBpajNi\ BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzQ1NDczBGdycHNwSWQDMTYwM DA2MTU4OQRtc2dJZAM0MjYzMQRzZWMDZnRyBHNsawN2dHBjBHN0aW1lAzExNTc3NzM5MjIEdHBjSWQ DNDIyMjk-) (11) _Reply (via _ (/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJvMTNrcWxnBF9TAzk3M\ zU5NzE0BGdycElkAzQ1NDczBGdycHNwSWQDMTYwMDA2MTU 4OQRtc2dJZAM0MjYzMQRzZWMDZnRyBHNsawNycGx5BHN0aW1lAzExNTc3NzM5MjI-?act=reply & me ssageNum=42631) Quote
Guest guest Posted September 10, 2006 Report Posted September 10, 2006 Well , he could quote me an hourly rate for any legal work I requested. If he wasn't interested, he could say he couldn't do it. He wasn't disinterested in the job. In fact he bugged me about getting the job, calling me at work, reminding me it had to be done, etc. I wanted to do it myself but every question I had about it, courthouse told me to see a lawyer. It wasn't something people do themselves usually but I like to do EVERYTHING myself. It's just my personality. I did everything else myself easily. I just ran into a lack of public information of how to do this final accounting. All I could get was the forms, so I had to go to lawyer but then they gave me wrong information. Correct information was I didn't have to do it. So they were giving me bad information and bragging about how much they were going to charge me. Why do you assume it a simple act? The only thing lawyer did for estate was right in the beginning and it was simple act. It was so simple I decided I was going to do it myself when I saw what he was doing for such a big fee. All the information for estate closure came from me. They just put it on simple courthouse form and charged me huge fee. Probate is a racket in general to get money out of an estate. Anyway, a lawyer offering to do a service should say something professional like , that will cost you XXXX an hour or whatever his rate, not " that will COST you " . What kind of lawyers are you used to that that seems normal? I have paid big fees for attorneys when it seemed appropriate. I am not a pauper (mold illness may turn me into one though), nor lazy person, nor someone who asks for help for simple thing. I'm a do-it-yourselfer. I don't look for anyone to do simple tasks for me. No these were sleazy lawyers in fancy office, with good credentials. You can't tell a book by it's cover. People and quality work do not have a certain strip. There are all mixed in together and they are hard to tell the difference. Like I've said I've discovered you have to have a good idea yourself of the right way to do something BEFORE you look for an expert or a professional. I've noticed professionals lately who have a prestigious degree and background feel *entitled* to a lot more money than they are worth. Our culture has become so materialistic that everyone is on the take, rather than providing a real service for a reasonable fee and it seems to be worse in the professional fields like legal and medical fields. Those credentials go to their heads but they aren't more talented or intelligent than the average person but have a superiority complex with the title. Of course there are good people in ALL fields including these but not a higher percentage than other fields or less degreed or even high school graduates. Good and talented people come in all shapes, sizes, background and degrees or lack of them. Used car salesmen don't have a higher sleaze factor. It is just more obvious than with attorneys. Well, actually come to think of it attorneys DO have a big reputation for being sleazy so I'd have to say doctors have a better reputation than they deserve and attorneys have a bad reputation that to my experience they richly deserve. --- bobbinsbiomed@... wrote: >Barb, > > I am happy for you that you found the right > attorney to help guide you and > that your situation worked out. Most attorneys > because of the potential > pitfalls are not geared towards helping their > clients to do simple tasks themselves > (as the client who performs the task rather > than the attorney). > > Quote
Guest guest Posted September 10, 2006 Report Posted September 10, 2006 All I can say is thank God you are not living in HUD Housing no Attorney will touch you call it fear by the way good luck. Elvira Re: [] Mold /and attorneys Well , he could quote me an hourly rate for any legal work I requested. If he wasn't interested, he could say he couldn't do it. He wasn't disinterested in the job. In fact he bugged me about getting the job, calling me at work, reminding me it had to be done, etc. I wanted to do it myself but every question I had about it, courthouse told me to see a lawyer. It wasn't something people do themselves usually but I like to do EVERYTHING myself. It's just my personality. I did everything else myself easily. I just ran into a lack of public information of how to do this final accounting. All I could get was the forms, so I had to go to lawyer but then they gave me wrong information. Correct information was I didn't have to do it. So they were giving me bad information and bragging about how much they were going to charge me. Why do you assume it a simple act? The only thing lawyer did for estate was right in the beginning and it was simple act. It was so simple I decided I was going to do it myself when I saw what he was doing for such a big fee. All the information for estate closure came from me. They just put it on simple courthouse form and charged me huge fee. Probate is a racket in general to get money out of an estate. Anyway, a lawyer offering to do a service should say something professional like , that will cost you XXXX an hour or whatever his rate, not " that will COST you " . What kind of lawyers are you used to that that seems normal? I have paid big fees for attorneys when it seemed appropriate. I am not a pauper (mold illness may turn me into one though), nor lazy person, nor someone who asks for help for simple thing. I'm a do-it-yourselfer. I don't look for anyone to do simple tasks for me. No these were sleazy lawyers in fancy office, with good credentials. You can't tell a book by it's cover. People and quality work do not have a certain strip. There are all mixed in together and they are hard to tell the difference. Like I've said I've discovered you have to have a good idea yourself of the right way to do something BEFORE you look for an expert or a professional. I've noticed professionals lately who have a prestigious degree and background feel *entitled* to a lot more money than they are worth. Our culture has become so materialistic that everyone is on the take, rather than providing a real service for a reasonable fee and it seems to be worse in the professional fields like legal and medical fields. Those credentials go to their heads but they aren't more talented or intelligent than the average person but have a superiority complex with the title. Of course there are good people in ALL fields including these but not a higher percentage than other fields or less degreed or even high school graduates. Good and talented people come in all shapes, sizes, background and degrees or lack of them. Used car salesmen don't have a higher sleaze factor. It is just more obvious than with attorneys. Well, actually come to think of it attorneys DO have a big reputation for being sleazy so I'd have to say doctors have a better reputation than they deserve and attorneys have a bad reputation that to my experience they richly deserve. --- bobbinsbiomed@... wrote: >Barb, > > I am happy for you that you found the right > attorney to help guide you and > that your situation worked out. Most attorneys > because of the potential > pitfalls are not geared towards helping their > clients to do simple tasks themselves > (as the client who performs the task rather > than the attorney). > > Quote
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