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Posted

Hi, thanks for these explanations. Can you explain more about the cladosporium?

I thought from what I read that levels should always be higher indoors than

outdoors. Are you saying that the spores from outside were washed out and so

these higher inside levels are meaningless? Is cladosporium one of the

dangerous molds? Are there any molds that are not dangerous?

Lori

Posted

Carl--Are you aware that some Hepa type filters are inside of a cardboard frame

which is then placed inside of the system??? I know that Trane manufactures one

inside of a cardboard frame.///Could the Stachy have been in an old system which

was removed but some Stachy remained in the air ducts after its' removal? You

say the AC was only a year old.///I find the patching of the insulation a little

unusual for some reason or another. Perhaps water could have gotten in to the

basement and the evidence was covered up? JMHO, Leigh

" Carl E. Grimes " <grimes@...> wrote:

Here is the update on the Mold Analysis Challange. It should address

the issues many of you have discussed. Also, someone asked that I

teach them how to interpret the results. That's the real trick to

this art and I hope the following is helpful.

With the knowledge and experience my clients had, I asked why they

were even considering this house because of the lab report (from

another company, not me). They said they really liked the house, it's

the best they've found in 7 months of looking and they could find no

reason why there would be any mold growth in the house.

I understood that, and besides, I had questions about the lab data.

The questions increased to concerns as I inspected house.

The total levels of mold inside the house were actually quite good,

as several of you pointed out. Of concern, however, was Stachybotrys

and Memnoniella (similar to Stachybotrys). The airborne data were

much, much higher than I usually see even in water damaged houses.

Also of concern was the outside levels - unless the wind was blowing

a lot of dust. Once I found out they were collected while it was

raining my doubts inceased! I would expect the rain to " wash " almost

all particles of any kind, including mold spores, out of the air and

onto the ground. If I were to ever get a zero result, it would be in

the rain or snow.

My questions about the lab data further increased as I inspected the

house. Yes, it had a basement but it was a walkout basement and was

very dry - the RH was 31% which was lower than upstairs or outside at

similar temperatures. (Therefore, the Specific Humidity calculated as

nearly identical).

The floor was a slab with minimal hairline cracking in a few of the

seams with no indications of moisture and no odor. Landscaping was

excellent. The attic showed no signs of moisture or odor and was

extremely well separated from the living space.

The HVAC in the basement was dusty and needed cleaning but the A/C

was only 1 year old and clean. Stachybotrys is unusual in A/C because

cardboard is unusual in A/C.

The only evidence of any damage or defect was two locations where the

plastic-covered fiberglass insulation on the walls had been patched.

I asked if the owner had a cat or dog and they confirmed that a dog

had pawed the insulation and that they had patched it with new

insulation.

I could find absolutely no place, not even with a stretch of my

active imagination, where mold could be growing. So if there is no

mold growth inside and it had been raining outside, where did the

airborne mold come from? I was now faced with the possiblity that the

samples were a false positive - very hard to do unintentionally.

We still had to answer the question about the accuracy of the test

results before they could make a decision on whether or not to buy

the house.

Another reason to question the lab results was that he had spent two

hours in the house with no reaction. Other houses caused a reaction

within minutes.

They asked me to repeat the previous sampling. I consented only after

we agreed on how to interpret the results.

1. If my samples had similar results, then the previous ones were

confirmed. Further investigation would be needed to identify the well-

hidden source(s) of Stachybotrys and Memnoniella. They declined the

further investigation offer and said they would simply back out of

the deal.

2. If my sample were higher than the previous ones, they would just

back out.

3. If my samples had lower Stachy the risk was still too high and

they would back out.

4. If my samples were significantly different and especially if they

had zero Stachybotrys and/or Memnoniella, then they would proceed

with the purchase. However, they asked for and I agreed to additional

sampling for future use. This included culturing in addition to the

spore traps. Two different culture media were used. One that was

selective for Penicillium and Aspergillis and the other selective for

Stachybotrys.

I'll let you know the spore trap results in a couple of days. The

culture results will take another 10-18 days.

In the meantime, what do you think?

Carl Grimes

Healthy Habitats LLC

Posted

-sence it was raining, your results might show higher amounts than

previous testing. was the home previously remediated? could there

have been some water pipes behind these patched areas that may have

leaked? is there carpet in the home? is the home vacant now? what

kind of walk out basement? I dont know if baseing your symptoms would

be a safe thing to do. if the house is vacant, stachy is not being

stirred up, no I wouldn't trust this,load,etc. to many things

involved.

or the 'professional' was a crook and was going to try to make some

easy money or cross contamination at the

lab.

--

In , " Carl E. Grimes " <grimes@...> wrote:

>

>

> Here is the update on the Mold Analysis Challange. It should

address

> the issues many of you have discussed. Also, someone asked that I

> teach them how to interpret the results. That's the real trick to

> this art and I hope the following is helpful.

>

> With the knowledge and experience my clients had, I asked why they

> were even considering this house because of the lab report (from

> another company, not me). They said they really liked the house,

it's

> the best they've found in 7 months of looking and they could find

no

> reason why there would be any mold growth in the house.

>

> I understood that, and besides, I had questions about the lab data.

> The questions increased to concerns as I inspected house.

>

> The total levels of mold inside the house were actually quite good,

> as several of you pointed out. Of concern, however, was

Stachybotrys

> and Memnoniella (similar to Stachybotrys). The airborne data were

> much, much higher than I usually see even in water damaged houses.

>

> Also of concern was the outside levels - unless the wind was

blowing

> a lot of dust. Once I found out they were collected while it was

> raining my doubts inceased! I would expect the rain to " wash "

almost

> all particles of any kind, including mold spores, out of the air

and

> onto the ground. If I were to ever get a zero result, it would be

in

> the rain or snow.

>

> My questions about the lab data further increased as I inspected

the

> house. Yes, it had a basement but it was a walkout basement and was

> very dry - the RH was 31% which was lower than upstairs or outside

at

> similar temperatures. (Therefore, the Specific Humidity calculated

as

> nearly identical).

>

> The floor was a slab with minimal hairline cracking in a few of

the

> seams with no indications of moisture and no odor. Landscaping was

> excellent. The attic showed no signs of moisture or odor and was

> extremely well separated from the living space.

>

> The HVAC in the basement was dusty and needed cleaning but the A/C

> was only 1 year old and clean. Stachybotrys is unusual in A/C

because

> cardboard is unusual in A/C.

>

> The only evidence of any damage or defect was two locations where

the

> plastic-covered fiberglass insulation on the walls had been

patched.

> I asked if the owner had a cat or dog and they confirmed that a dog

> had pawed the insulation and that they had patched it with new

> insulation.

>

> I could find absolutely no place, not even with a stretch of my

> active imagination, where mold could be growing. So if there is no

> mold growth inside and it had been raining outside, where did the

> airborne mold come from? I was now faced with the possiblity that

the

> samples were a false positive - very hard to do unintentionally.

>

> We still had to answer the question about the accuracy of the test

> results before they could make a decision on whether or not to buy

> the house.

>

> Another reason to question the lab results was that he had spent

two

> hours in the house with no reaction. Other houses caused a reaction

> within minutes.

>

> They asked me to repeat the previous sampling. I consented only

after

> we agreed on how to interpret the results.

>

> 1. If my samples had similar results, then the previous ones

were

> confirmed. Further investigation would be needed to identify

the well-

> hidden source(s) of Stachybotrys and Memnoniella. They

declined the

> further investigation offer and said they would simply back

out of

> the deal.

>

> 2. If my sample were higher than the previous ones, they would

just

> back out.

>

> 3. If my samples had lower Stachy the risk was still too high

and

> they would back out.

>

> 4. If my samples were significantly different and especially

if they

> had zero Stachybotrys and/or Memnoniella, then they would

proceed

> with the purchase. However, they asked for and I agreed to

additional

> sampling for future use. This included culturing in addition

to the

> spore traps. Two different culture media were used. One that

was

> selective for Penicillium and Aspergillis and the other

selective for

> Stachybotrys.

>

> I'll let you know the spore trap results in a couple of days. The

> culture results will take another 10-18 days.

>

> In the meantime, what do you think?

>

> Carl Grimes

> Healthy Habitats LLC

>

Posted

-Genus Main floor Outside Basement

Basidiospores 80 213 27

Cladosporium 267 27 320

Memnoniella* 13 113 0

Pen/Asp types 160 80 80

Stachybotrys 13 73 20

Misc 59 100 128

TOTALS 593 606 575

cladospoium higher than outside main floor and basement

pen/asp main floor, but low amounts, humm, could be a lot of reasons,

tub over flow, carpet, etc. but if house isn't being lived in amounts

could be much higher when its occupied.

stachy higher outside

humm, where were tests done outside, was it away from house on done

on a covered porch?

if it was raining, stachy could be growing outside, I dont think it

would pick up in air test inless done on a covered porch. maybe, the

sorce would have to be dry, but if raining the air itself would have

enough moisture to make outside stachy grow and I do believe that it

doesn't put out spores while its

growing.

humm, just not something right about these

results,

-- In

, " who " <jeaninem660@...> wrote:

>

> -sence it was raining, your results might show higher amounts than

> previous testing. was the home previously remediated? could there

> have been some water pipes behind these patched areas that may have

> leaked? is there carpet in the home? is the home vacant now? what

> kind of walk out basement? I dont know if baseing your symptoms

would

> be a safe thing to do. if the house is vacant, stachy is not being

> stirred up, no I wouldn't trust this,load,etc. to many things

> involved.

>

> or the 'professional' was a crook and was going to try to make some

> easy money or cross contamination at the

>

lab.

>

> -

-

> In , " Carl E. Grimes " <grimes@> wrote:

> >

> >

> > Here is the update on the Mold Analysis Challange. It should

> address

> > the issues many of you have discussed. Also, someone asked that I

> > teach them how to interpret the results. That's the real trick to

> > this art and I hope the following is helpful.

> >

> > With the knowledge and experience my clients had, I asked why

they

> > were even considering this house because of the lab report (from

> > another company, not me). They said they really liked the house,

> it's

> > the best they've found in 7 months of looking and they could find

> no

> > reason why there would be any mold growth in the house.

> >

> > I understood that, and besides, I had questions about the lab

data.

> > The questions increased to concerns as I inspected house.

> >

> > The total levels of mold inside the house were actually quite

good,

> > as several of you pointed out. Of concern, however, was

> Stachybotrys

> > and Memnoniella (similar to Stachybotrys). The airborne data were

> > much, much higher than I usually see even in water damaged

houses.

> >

> > Also of concern was the outside levels - unless the wind was

> blowing

> > a lot of dust. Once I found out they were collected while it was

> > raining my doubts inceased! I would expect the rain to " wash "

> almost

> > all particles of any kind, including mold spores, out of the air

> and

> > onto the ground. If I were to ever get a zero result, it would be

> in

> > the rain or snow.

> >

> > My questions about the lab data further increased as I inspected

> the

> > house. Yes, it had a basement but it was a walkout basement and

was

> > very dry - the RH was 31% which was lower than upstairs or

outside

> at

> > similar temperatures. (Therefore, the Specific Humidity

calculated

> as

> > nearly identical).

> >

> > The floor was a slab with minimal hairline cracking in a few of

> the

> > seams with no indications of moisture and no odor. Landscaping

was

> > excellent. The attic showed no signs of moisture or odor and was

> > extremely well separated from the living space.

> >

> > The HVAC in the basement was dusty and needed cleaning but the

A/C

> > was only 1 year old and clean. Stachybotrys is unusual in A/C

> because

> > cardboard is unusual in A/C.

> >

> > The only evidence of any damage or defect was two locations where

> the

> > plastic-covered fiberglass insulation on the walls had been

> patched.

> > I asked if the owner had a cat or dog and they confirmed that a

dog

> > had pawed the insulation and that they had patched it with new

> > insulation.

> >

> > I could find absolutely no place, not even with a stretch of my

> > active imagination, where mold could be growing. So if there is

no

> > mold growth inside and it had been raining outside, where did the

> > airborne mold come from? I was now faced with the possiblity that

> the

> > samples were a false positive - very hard to do unintentionally.

> >

> > We still had to answer the question about the accuracy of the

test

> > results before they could make a decision on whether or not to

buy

> > the house.

> >

> > Another reason to question the lab results was that he had spent

> two

> > hours in the house with no reaction. Other houses caused a

reaction

> > within minutes.

> >

> > They asked me to repeat the previous sampling. I consented only

> after

> > we agreed on how to interpret the results.

> >

> > 1. If my samples had similar results, then the previous ones

> were

> > confirmed. Further investigation would be needed to identify

> the well-

> > hidden source(s) of Stachybotrys and Memnoniella. They

> declined the

> > further investigation offer and said they would simply back

> out of

> > the deal.

> >

> > 2. If my sample were higher than the previous ones, they

would

> just

> > back out.

> >

> > 3. If my samples had lower Stachy the risk was still too

high

> and

> > they would back out.

> >

> > 4. If my samples were significantly different and especially

> if they

> > had zero Stachybotrys and/or Memnoniella, then they would

> proceed

> > with the purchase. However, they asked for and I agreed to

> additional

> > sampling for future use. This included culturing in addition

> to the

> > spore traps. Two different culture media were used. One that

> was

> > selective for Penicillium and Aspergillis and the other

> selective for

> > Stachybotrys.

> >

> > I'll let you know the spore trap results in a couple of days. The

> > culture results will take another 10-18 days.

> >

> > In the meantime, what do you think?

> >

> > Carl Grimes

> > Healthy Habitats LLC

> >

>

Posted

Hi Carl,

A very interesting answer, particularly the idea of questioning testing

accuracy.

I would like one other small clarification however. You mentioned that you

and the prospective buyers did not react in the house. Was the air

conditioning on when you were there, and also when sampling was done. Your

initial post was Sept 19, possibly after summer's heat was no longer intense

enough for AC, but completed test results on that date suggest testing may

have been in warmer late August.

I ask because of my experience with air conditioning mold. In 1995, I

began to have a cough whenever I worked in one lab in our research building.

That lab had an HVAC totally separate from the rest of the building,

designed previously for control of high or low humidity applications. It was

poorly maintained and became very moldy. By the time it was finally shut

down in 1997 and the room connected to the main building HVAC, my

sensitivity was very great. The change brought relief.

But, the main building HVAC was also old and inefficient, though well

maintained. It was replaced in spring 1999. After being turned on and off

several times for adjustments to be made, I began having severe coughing

fits when the new system was less than 2 months old. That system I was told

was designed with near HEPA filters, and with no insulation inside the air

channel. Another experience was in our old church. A new furnace with air

conditioner was installed in 1997. It felt great the first Sunday it was

used, but I reacted severely the second Sunday. I got a chance to see inside

that system. It had a fibrous insulation inside the encasement all around

the cooling coils, and I presume further into the system. It did not look

dirty at that time. Even though I have been retired since 2001 and my

sensitivity has lessened, I still cannot enter that church unless the

ventilation is off and the windows open. Needless to say, it is no longer my

house of worship. My workplace HVAC was 28 years old, and caused me no

problems. The replacement caused a problem within a few months, the new

church AC within 2 weeks. New is not a guarantee. Interestingly, air

sampling at my workplace showed lower total molds than outside, leading to

management's conclusion that I was a hypochondriac. The concept of

amplification of select molds was not appreciated.

I strongly suggest your clients inspect the home with the AC running.

Should that be the problem, repairing the system can be factored into their

purchase offer. It may be remediated by simply cleaning the AC and placing

chlorine disinfectant tablets in the drain pan, as long as there in no

fiberglass ductboard or insulation inside the system.

Gil

Posted

Jeanine,

Stachy does not put out spores when it is

growing? Doesn't it grow when humidity and food

are present? If so, then you mean that stachy

sporalates when conditions are not right to grow?

Why is it so hard to pick up stachy in air test?

thanks barb

--- who <jeaninem660@...> wrote:

> enough moisture to make outside stachy grow and

> I do believe that it

> doesn't put out spores while its

> growing.

>

> humm, just not something right about these

> results,

>

>

Posted

-Barb, I dont know exactually how much humidity it takes to make

stachy grow or weather it puts out spores when it's growing without

the slime covering it,onlt that it puts out spores when it starts

drying. I think that food has more moisture content. read this,

hopefully you'll understand what I'm saying, sorry if I confused you.

I'm looking at it in different stages. constant water sorce-slime

covered-no sporlation, just enough water to bring it alive again-

sporlation??(guessing it sporlates in this condiction,dont know,but

this and strarting to dry could be about the same thing, with out

constant water supply) starts drying-releases spores.

In , " who " <jeaninem660@...> wrote:

>

> -was it dry as in gray colored or still black? i know what you

mean,

> i've never seen stachy in the slime mode in the house, but guessing

> that may happen behind the walls where water is running when its

> raining heavy. i've only seen it in the form you are talking about

> and tape tests done than show the same. than I've seen it get

> completely dry and just look gray.most abstracts talk about slime

> covered and stachy needing high water sorse, I dont agree with

that,

> and they also say it doesn't sporalate often because of the slime

> cover, I can understand that with a constant water sorce it would

do

> this but with a leaky roof where water sorce was off and on it did

> very well and made me very sick, my illness got more constant as

the

> stachy infiltrated throughout my home. there is a study by straus

> showing stachy (dry) stays toxic for years, and I can relate my

> symptoms to at least 1, maybe 2 trichathecene mycotoxins. yes, it's

> when it's dry that you inhale it(airborne).later on I than noticed

it

> growing on the outside sofit of the home after several rainy

days,the

> rain had stoped and it was still cloudy, it was thick, fuzzy

looking

> and had a green cast to it. I desided it was a good time to get

> pictures.I put on a respirator railroad issued mask that had been

> given to me. had the 2 filters on the sides, don't remember the

> brand. ugly thing, but was supposed to be a really good one, it

does

> bring on astha because its hard to breath through, when I got close

> up, about 2 feet away i got zapped hard by what I'm positive was

> mycotoxins. if you can imagion bees swarming around a bee hive,

this

> is the picture I got. the rain had quit, the air was calm and the

> stachy was starting to dry.also, I've found out sence that this

mask

> does let some chemical toxins through. -- In

> , Tazin Round <unitedstatesvet@>

> wrote:

> >

> > Hey Jeanine,

> > For the most part I agree. The only exception I know of is

inside

> Sheetrock. I have a sample that is dry now but even when it was

> collected out of the inside of the Sheetrock hiding, it had a dry

> appearance and was not slimy. The original test results from that

> said it was " Loaded " , meaning " Hyphae and fruiting structures

> present. " which said " semi-quantitative concentrations were greater

> than 100 spores seen on prep "

> > With that in mind I would say a dry stachy is just as alive as

a

> wet stachy. Maybe even more lethal because it has the ability to go

> air borne. (in my case it did)

> > Chris...

> >

> > who <jeaninem660@> wrote:

> > -Im pretty convienced that stachy grows and sporlates

> depending on its

> > water sorce. constant water sorce, it will have slime and may not

> > sporlate much. in a leaking roof where it gets wet/grows with

rain

> and

> > moisture in the air, than while drying/puts out spores. when

> completely

> > dry it becomes air borne with wind, spreads, than next rain

comes,

> > etc. -- In , LiveSimply

> > <quackadillian@> wrote:

> > >

> > > Okay, here's my cut on this.

> > >

> > > Stachybotrys rarely sporulates, so I would guess that having

> stachy

> > > show up in any air sample indicates the building has problems..

> (and

> > > not having it show up doesn't indicate that there are not

serious

> or

> > > unserious stachy problems there, just that the timing of that

> single

> > > test didn't catch any sporulating at that time)

> > >

> > > ???

-- In , bbw <barb1283@...> wrote:

>

> Jeanine,

> Stachy does not put out spores when it is

> growing? Doesn't it grow when humidity and food

> are present? If so, then you mean that stachy

> sporalates when conditions are not right to grow?

> Why is it so hard to pick up stachy in air test?

> thanks barb

>

> --- who <jeaninem660@...> wrote:

>

> > enough moisture to make outside stachy grow and

> > I do believe that it

> > doesn't put out spores while its

> > growing.

> >

> > humm, just not something right about these

> > results,

> >

> >

>

Posted

-sorry Barb, maybe the best way to put it is that when its black, I'm

convienced its putting off spores and very possably mycotoxins. when

its gray it's dorment waiting for moisture to grow, when its got

slime over it it's growing but not sporlateing and Im not sure about

when it's white. maybe this is the same as gray.cant say I see the

best,lol's. gray was the color of dry stachy on the outside of the

home. I did notice white dust under the house of the second home and

stachy was found there also.-- In

, " who " <jeaninem660@...> wrote:

>

> -Barb, I dont know exactually how much humidity it takes to make

> stachy grow or weather it puts out spores when it's growing without

> the slime covering it,onlt that it puts out spores when it starts

> drying. I think that food has more moisture content. read this,

> hopefully you'll understand what I'm saying, sorry if I confused

you.

> I'm looking at it in different stages. constant water sorce-slime

> covered-no sporlation, just enough water to bring it alive again-

> sporlation??(guessing it sporlates in this condiction,dont know,but

> this and strarting to dry could be about the same thing, with out

> constant water supply) starts drying-releases spores.

> In , " who " <jeaninem660@> wrote:

> >

> > -was it dry as in gray colored or still black? i know what you

> mean,

> > i've never seen stachy in the slime mode in the house, but

guessing

> > that may happen behind the walls where water is running when its

> > raining heavy. i've only seen it in the form you are talking

about

> > and tape tests done than show the same. than I've seen it get

> > completely dry and just look gray.most abstracts talk about slime

> > covered and stachy needing high water sorse, I dont agree with

> that,

> > and they also say it doesn't sporalate often because of the slime

> > cover, I can understand that with a constant water sorce it would

> do

> > this but with a leaky roof where water sorce was off and on it

did

> > very well and made me very sick, my illness got more constant as

> the

> > stachy infiltrated throughout my home. there is a study by straus

> > showing stachy (dry) stays toxic for years, and I can relate my

> > symptoms to at least 1, maybe 2 trichathecene mycotoxins. yes,

it's

> > when it's dry that you inhale it(airborne).later on I than

noticed

> it

> > growing on the outside sofit of the home after several rainy

> days,the

> > rain had stoped and it was still cloudy, it was thick, fuzzy

> looking

> > and had a green cast to it. I desided it was a good time to get

> > pictures.I put on a respirator railroad issued mask that had been

> > given to me. had the 2 filters on the sides, don't remember the

> > brand. ugly thing, but was supposed to be a really good one, it

> does

> > bring on astha because its hard to breath through, when I got

close

> > up, about 2 feet away i got zapped hard by what I'm positive was

> > mycotoxins. if you can imagion bees swarming around a bee hive,

> this

> > is the picture I got. the rain had quit, the air was calm and the

> > stachy was starting to dry.also, I've found out sence that this

> mask

> > does let some chemical toxins through. -- In

> > , Tazin Round <unitedstatesvet@>

> > wrote:

> > >

> > > Hey Jeanine,

> > > For the most part I agree. The only exception I know of is

> inside

> > Sheetrock. I have a sample that is dry now but even when it was

> > collected out of the inside of the Sheetrock hiding, it had a dry

> > appearance and was not slimy. The original test results from that

> > said it was " Loaded " , meaning " Hyphae and fruiting structures

> > present. " which said " semi-quantitative concentrations were

greater

> > than 100 spores seen on prep "

> > > With that in mind I would say a dry stachy is just as alive

as

> a

> > wet stachy. Maybe even more lethal because it has the ability to

go

> > air borne. (in my case it did)

> > > Chris...

> > >

> > > who <jeaninem660@> wrote:

> > > -Im pretty convienced that stachy grows and sporlates

> > depending on its

> > > water sorce. constant water sorce, it will have slime and may

not

> > > sporlate much. in a leaking roof where it gets wet/grows with

> rain

> > and

> > > moisture in the air, than while drying/puts out spores. when

> > completely

> > > dry it becomes air borne with wind, spreads, than next rain

> comes,

> > > etc. -- In , LiveSimply

> > > <quackadillian@> wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Okay, here's my cut on this.

> > > >

> > > > Stachybotrys rarely sporulates, so I would guess that having

> > stachy

> > > > show up in any air sample indicates the building has

problems..

> > (and

> > > > not having it show up doesn't indicate that there are not

> serious

> > or

> > > > unserious stachy problems there, just that the timing of that

> > single

> > > > test didn't catch any sporulating at that time)

> > > >

> > > > ???

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> -- In , bbw <barb1283@> wrote:

> >

> > Jeanine,

> > Stachy does not put out spores when it is

> > growing? Doesn't it grow when humidity and food

> > are present? If so, then you mean that stachy

> > sporalates when conditions are not right to grow?

> > Why is it so hard to pick up stachy in air test?

> > thanks barb

> >

> > --- who <jeaninem660@> wrote:

> >

> > > enough moisture to make outside stachy grow and

> > > I do believe that it

> > > doesn't put out spores while its

> > > growing.

> > >

> > > humm, just not something right about these

> > > results,

> > >

> > >

> >

>

Posted

Gil,

The A/C was running while I was there. And even though the RH was in

the very low 30s, condesate was running out of the drain pipe. So the

coils were below the dew point which was about 39 degrees.

Your points about HVAC are well taken. It is not as simple as " new "

or " old. " The brand new ones are often the worst because of the oil

film on the fins, glue for the new duct board, or the duct board

itself. Since mold only needs a few days to grow it could amplify

very quickly, as could the faster growing bacteria.

Carl Grimes

Healthy Habitats LLC

-----

> Hi Carl,

>

> A very interesting answer, particularly the idea of questioning

> testing

> accuracy.

>

> I would like one other small clarification however. You mentioned

> that you

> and the prospective buyers did not react in the house. Was the air

> conditioning on when you were there, and also when sampling was done.

> Your initial post was Sept 19, possibly after summer's heat was no

> longer intense enough for AC, but completed test results on that date

> suggest testing may have been in warmer late August.

>

> I ask because of my experience with air conditioning mold. In 1995,

> I

> began to have a cough whenever I worked in one lab in our research

> building. That lab had an HVAC totally separate from the rest of the

> building, designed previously for control of high or low humidity

> applications. It was poorly maintained and became very moldy. By the

> time it was finally shut down in 1997 and the room connected to the

> main building HVAC, my sensitivity was very great. The change brought

> relief.

>

> But, the main building HVAC was also old and inefficient, though

> well

> maintained. It was replaced in spring 1999. After being turned on and

> off several times for adjustments to be made, I began having severe

> coughing fits when the new system was less than 2 months old. That

> system I was told was designed with near HEPA filters, and with no

> insulation inside the air channel. Another experience was in our old

> church. A new furnace with air conditioner was installed in 1997. It

> felt great the first Sunday it was used, but I reacted severely the

> second Sunday. I got a chance to see inside that system. It had a

> fibrous insulation inside the encasement all around the cooling coils,

> and I presume further into the system. It did not look dirty at that

> time. Even though I have been retired since 2001 and my sensitivity

> has lessened, I still cannot enter that church unless the ventilation

> is off and the windows open. Needless to say, it is no longer my house

> of worship. My workplace HVAC was 28 years old, and caused me no

> problems. The replacement caused a problem within a few months, the

> new church AC within 2 weeks. New is not a guarantee. Interestingly,

> air sampling at my workplace showed lower total molds than outside,

> leading to management's conclusion that I was a hypochondriac. The

> concept of amplification of select molds was not appreciated.

>

> I strongly suggest your clients inspect the home with the AC

> running.

> Should that be the problem, repairing the system can be factored into

> their purchase offer. It may be remediated by simply cleaning the AC

> and placing chlorine disinfectant tablets in the drain pan, as long as

> there in no fiberglass ductboard or insulation inside the system.

>

> Gil

>

>

>

>

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