Re: Professional Test Results March 2005

[Guest guest]

-barb, are you haveing chimney redone where it comes out of roof, or

done away with completely?-- In

, " barb1283 " <barb1283@...> wrote:

>

> With topic of professional test results thought I'd post mine which

> I had done winter of 2005 after doing mold plates with Home Depot

> which I can post sometime too. Results aren't the same but areas

> they decided needed remediation are the same. However I have had

> plate results change within a short time too.

>

> Total counts:

> Outside 84

> Basement 295

> Living Rm 169

> Master Bedroom (-that is room chimney goes through that had a leak

> and smell musty which I have closed up) 549

>

> Master Bedroom:

> Coprinus 42, background 0 (testor said one spore caught)

> Aspergillus 422, background 42 (testor said 10 spores caught)

> Cladosporium 84, background 42 (testor said 2 spores caught)

> *fibrous particulate 169, background 0 (so I think attic

insulation

> or old carpet padding that seems to be showing up as possible

> problem. old carpet padding may be in bad condition and is

> something like jute that can develope mold. That is what current

> testing seems to be showing. Just making an interesting note on

> this fibrous thing showing up in testing.)

>

> Living Room:

> (right below master bedroom and room chimney goes through on first

> floor)

> Aspergillus 127, background 42

> Cladosporium 42, background 42

> *fibrous particulate 84, background 0

> (...so room closer to attic, master bedroom EVEN in winter is

> showing more mold than lower floor. Some of chimney brick has

> broken up due to weather and chimney goes through both of these

> rooms but of course is in worse shape near roof.)

>

> I did not have attic tested as I wasn't concerned about 'air

> quality' in attic but later testing showed elevated counts in attic

> I don't have handy he said 5 times higher than outside air.

>

> Summer tests done a few months ago were different. Different type

> of mold predominated but still aspergillus showing up, with culture

> plates. I will be posting. Just thought I'd do these since Carl

> posted cassette type counts on mold analysis subject.

>

[Guest guest]

barb1283,

First, if I got numbers like yours I'd be hard pressed to say there

was a problem. In fact, if I were evaluating the completion of a

remediation job this would most likely clear even my stringent

standards.

UNLESS - the occupant is reacting to these levels. Then the numbers

need to be lower OR they are actually reacting to something other

than mold OR something in addition to mold.

> Coprinus 42, background 0 (testor said one spore caught)

> Aspergillus 422, background 42 (testor said 10 spores caught)

> Cladosporium 84, background 42 (testor said 2 spores caught)

First, Aspergillus as the highest often indicates dampness indoors

and reason for further evaluation. Aspergillus with no Penicillium

raises a question since both amplify in similar environments.

Second, the " one spore caught " refers to a spore trap that is

analyzed under the microscope without culturing. But Aspergillus

cannot be identified under the microscope separate from Penicillium.

That is why spore traps list it as " Penicillium/Aspergillus-type " or

" pen/asp-type. " So Aspergillus data appears to be from a culture

rather than a cassette or spore trap. Contradictory information.

Also, a culture would report " one colony " not " one spore. " Actually,

it would be " one colony forming unit " because they can't tell if that

single colony grew from a single spore or a 20 spore cluster (per

Jeff May and a previous post).

Aside from the above, the information of " 10 spores caught " has

little meaning by itself because it depends on how long the sample

was collected and at what flow rate? Most spore trap (cassette)

samples require a 15 liter/minute flow rate. But the sample can run 1

minute or 5 minues or 20 minutes or longer. One spore in 1 minute

should find 20 spores in 20 minutes. This is why there has to be a

uniform unit of measure. Usually expressed as " per cubic meter of

air. " Regardless of how many minutes the sample takes, it will all

calculate out to the same " per cubic meter of air. "

> *fibrous particulate 169, background ...Just making an interesting note on

this fibrous thing

> showing up in testing.)

This is absolutely a spore trap sample, not a culture sample.

> Just thought I'd do these since Carl

> posted cassette type counts on mold analysis subject.

Your data is also cassette type counts, aka spore trap counts, aka

Allergenco or Air-O-Cell samples. (there are other names but they are

all analyzed by a microscope without culturing).

Therefore, to compare the professional spore trap data to your

culture data from settling plates you have to convert one to the

other and that is impossible. The closest you can come is to convert

settling plate cultures with calibrated airflow cultures. And that

conversion factor varies (assuming certain constants) from a low of

600 to a high of about 1200. Too big a variation to have much value.

What you can compare with some meaning is highest, lowest and

percentages in each location along with changes in your reactions.

Which is what you have been doing.

Carl Grimes

Healthy Habitats LLC

[Guest guest]

Hi Carl,

Yes, testing was done with Air O-Cell traps. I

know they weren't 20 minutes because I was with

him but I will look and see if any time was

given.

This testor did say he felt house did not have a

mold problem, and culture plates I did on my own

came out pretty well according to ProLab report.

However summer testing I did this year are

another matter.

Since these tests were done after work was done

on basement to correct water problem and mold

clean up (by me w/o mask), these are in a sense

post remediation results but I think reflect

improved conditions in basement. Either a

problem has started in attic OR it was there at

the time of testing but wasn't affecting the home

in winter. It was Februrary. ALSO, I wasn't

using a dehumidifier AT ALL all winter so

humidity had been below 30% for probably a few

months before testing which would improve results

I would think.

--- " Carl E. Grimes " <grimes@...> wrote:

> barb1283,

>

> First, if I got numbers like yours I'd be hard

> pressed to say there

> was a problem. In fact, if I were evaluating

> the completion of a

> remediation job this would most likely clear

> even my stringent

> standards.

>

>

[Guest guest]

barb1283,

Good detailed info that is important to understanding the situation

and what the sampling data means. Good work.

Carl Grimes

Healthy Habitats LLC

-----

> Hi Carl,

> Yes, testing was done with Air O-Cell traps. I

> know they weren't 20 minutes because I was with

> him but I will look and see if any time was

> given.

> This testor did say he felt house did not have a

> mold problem, and culture plates I did on my own

> came out pretty well according to ProLab report.

> However summer testing I did this year are

> another matter.

> Since these tests were done after work was done

> on basement to correct water problem and mold

> clean up (by me w/o mask), these are in a sense

> post remediation results but I think reflect

> improved conditions in basement. Either a

> problem has started in attic OR it was there at

> the time of testing but wasn't affecting the home

> in winter. It was Februrary. ALSO, I wasn't

> using a dehumidifier AT ALL all winter so

> humidity had been below 30% for probably a few

> months before testing which would improve results

> I would think.

>

> --- " Carl E. Grimes " <grimes@...> wrote:

>

> > barb1283,

> >

> > First, if I got numbers like yours I'd be hard

> > pressed to say there

> > was a problem. In fact, if I were evaluating

> > the completion of a

> > remediation job this would most likely clear

> > even my stringent

> > standards.

> >

> >

>

>

>

>

>

> FAIR USE NOTICE:

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

-I know what your saying, I would want to keep the fireplace to. I do

know that mold grows very well in the tuckpointing between bricks.I

dont know if just lineing the chimney would help.?? some brick is

very porus,I've been told, but even though I have seen older porus

brick on the outside of my home grow mold during rainy,cloudy weather

and than dry up and disapeer when the sun hits it, I don't know if

it's all the way through the brick or just in the outer part. these

is a good question for Carl, can mold grow through cement and brick

or does it find a way around to the other side in other ways

(crack,tuckpointing,where wood meets concrete,etc.) and than grow and

servive in the porus part of the outer layers?-- In

, bbw <barb1283@...> wrote:

>

> Hi Jeanine. There is beautiful mantal and

> fireplace opening. It is really centerpiece of

> living room. I guess I could have it closed off

> but doesn't ever home need a chimney? I never

> saw a house without a chimney.

> Anyway, I was considering remediation

> recommendation to open up wall in master bedroom

> and inspect. If it looks like there are problems

> further down, then open up wall around chimney on

> first level too but I doubt it would need to be

> done that far down. While open, probably rebuild

> or repair chimney from wherever it has trouble

> through to top. Perhaps put liner in it, to help

> seal off future problems???

> Inspectors/testors thought house was not bad but

> due to VOCS in master bedroom and my not feeling

> well etc, open up wall and inspect. Chimney

> needs repair anyway and wall is cracked along

> chimney line on both floors but plaster cracks

> easily so may be just a shift in house that

> caused crack.

>

> --- who <jeaninem660@...> wrote:

>

> > -barb, are you haveing chimney redone where it

> > comes out of roof, or

> > done away with completely?-- In

> > , " barb1283 "

> >

>