Re: Mold analysis challange

[Guest guest]

Hi Carl,

This looks like a fun game. I would not buy the house. The total numbers

look very low. But when you compare inside to outside, it has elevated levels

of Cladosporium, Pen/Asp. Also it has Stachybotrys. I thought houses do not

have stachybotrys at all unless there is or has been a problem. Is that wrong?

Cladosporium 267 27 320

Pen/Asp types 160 80 80

Stachybotrys 13 73 20

Sharon

[Guest guest]

These numbers are meaningless to me. I haven't received the results from the

Home Depot culture plate back yet although they did finally cash my check.

I don't really know what these numbers mean at all or what any of the genuses

mean anyway.

What's EHS? I think I missed posts about that or it didn't register in my

brain.

The only thing that stands out to me is that cladosporium if I remember right is

one of the black molds and that it's dangerous, and that seems kind of high in

the main floor and higher in the basement, although again I don't really know

what those numbers mean. But in a normal environment I would think that

cladosporium would be greater outdoors than indoors.

So based on the cladosporium alone, I would say no, they should not buy the

house.

Lori

[Guest guest]

Carl--I don't understand the results. If a raw spore count total for all molds

is say 1000, then is the total spore count 1000 x 1000 or something else??? I

am consfused. Thanks, Leigh

" Carl E. Grimes " <grimes@...> wrote: Here's a challenge for

those of you that are learning about mold

sampling by using the Home Depot and EHS culture plates and how to

interpret the data; or observing those that are.

A house for sale had a " professional " conduct mold testing with spore

traps (not culture plates) by one of the best labs in the country.

One sample upstairs, one in the basement and one outside. No

inspection was conducted and they refused to interpret the results. I

was asked by the buyers to interpret the data for them.

The buyer's previous previous house had mold from leaking EIFS

(synthetic stucco). The engineering firm that was called to

investigate opened the walls from inside the house without using

containment, spreading spores throughout the rest of the house and on

contents at levels measured greater than 200,000 per cubic meter (by

spore trap). I think we'd all agree that is " a lot. "

Both reacted so severely that staying became impossible, so they

moved out. She recovered but he didn't. His VCS was consistent with

his lack of recovery. They have since been in two rental houses in

the 7 months they've been looking for a house to buy. They reacted to

the first rental house when they brought contents from the

contaminated house. Sound familiar?

So here's the question. With what you know from above and with the

numbers given below, would you recommend they buy or not buy the new

house?

Genus Main floor Outside Basement

Basidiospores 80 213 27

Cladosporium 267 27 320

Memnoniella* 13 113 0

Pen/Asp types 160 80 80

Stachybotrys 13 73 20

Misc 59 100 128

TOTALS 593 606 575

*Memnoniella is often associated with Stachybotrys.

Don't be concerned about being " wrong " because, as you know from my

previous statements, there is no such thing as absolute right and

wrong. So, and also just for the fun of it, what do you think I

recommended?

Be brave, this is a learning experience not a contest. Beside, the

most beneficial learning experiences I've had were when I was wrong.

Carl Grimes

Healthy Habitats LLC

[Guest guest]

why would people with mold problems buy a house with a basement???

why not purchase a slab???

" Carl E. Grimes " <grimes@...> wrote:

Here's a challenge for those of you that are learning about mold

sampling by using the Home Depot and EHS culture plates and how to

interpret the data; or observing those that are.

A house for sale had a " professional " conduct mold testing with spore

traps (not culture plates) by one of the best labs in the country.

One sample upstairs, one in the basement and one outside. No

inspection was conducted and they refused to interpret the results. I

was asked by the buyers to interpret the data for them.

The buyer's previous previous house had mold from leaking EIFS

(synthetic stucco). The engineering firm that was called to

investigate opened the walls from inside the house without using

containment, spreading spores throughout the rest of the house and on

contents at levels measured greater than 200,000 per cubic meter (by

spore trap). I think we'd all agree that is " a lot. "

Both reacted so severely that staying became impossible, so they

moved out. She recovered but he didn't. His VCS was consistent with

his lack of recovery. They have since been in two rental houses in

the 7 months they've been looking for a house to buy. They reacted to

the first rental house when they brought contents from the

contaminated house. Sound familiar?

So here's the question. With what you know from above and with the

numbers given below, would you recommend they buy or not buy the new

house?

Genus Main floor Outside Basement

Basidiospores 80 213 27

Cladosporium 267 27 320

Memnoniella* 13 113 0

Pen/Asp types 160 80 80

Stachybotrys 13 73 20

Misc 59 100 128

TOTALS 593 606 575

*Memnoniella is often associated with Stachybotrys.

Don't be concerned about being " wrong " because, as you know from my

previous statements, there is no such thing as absolute right and

wrong. So, and also just for the fun of it, what do you think I

recommended?

Be brave, this is a learning experience not a contest. Beside, the

most beneficial learning experiences I've had were when I was wrong.

Carl Grimes

Healthy Habitats LLC

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

Thanks to all you brave souls who have so far accepted the challenge.

Including some off-line, which is fine.

One correction, EHS should be, I guess, EHC for the Environmental

Health Center in Dallas. The other common source for mold plates.

As for Leigh's question about raw counts, I should have clarified my

original post my stating the raw counts have already been converted

to a common unit of measure of " spores per cubic meter of air. "

Raw counts by themselves are just that, " raw. " Numbers without a unit

of measure can't be compared directly with any meaning because you

don't know if you are comparing cubic meters or liters or feet or

square centimeters. Some samples may have collected 100 spores in 3

minutes while another may have 100 spores in 15 minutes.

What does the number 10 mean? 10 pounds? 10 snakes on a plane? Or 10

snakes on 10 planes? Big difference. (Yes, I actually paid money to

see the movie. Must have been under the influence of one of 's

mold plumes).

I'll wait to see if there are some more responses before I answer.

BTW, there have been no " wrong " answers so far, even though there is

some disagreement. There are some discriminating thinkers on this

group. Exciting!

Carl Grimes

Healthy Habitats LLC

[Guest guest]

-P.S. buying a home is a long term project. they have mold illness

already, even if these low amounts are accurate,long term could cause

serious problems. and those counts could be different if you did the

same testing tomarrow. -- In , " Carl E.

Grimes " <grimes@...> wrote:

>

> Here's a challenge for those of you that are learning about mold

> sampling by using the Home Depot and EHS culture plates and how to

> interpret the data; or observing those that are.

>

> A house for sale had a " professional " conduct mold testing with

spore

> traps (not culture plates) by one of the best labs in the country.

> One sample upstairs, one in the basement and one outside. No

> inspection was conducted and they refused to interpret the results.

I

> was asked by the buyers to interpret the data for them.

>

> The buyer's previous previous house had mold from leaking EIFS

> (synthetic stucco). The engineering firm that was called to

> investigate opened the walls from inside the house without using

> containment, spreading spores throughout the rest of the house and

on

> contents at levels measured greater than 200,000 per cubic meter

(by

> spore trap). I think we'd all agree that is " a lot. "

>

> Both reacted so severely that staying became impossible, so they

> moved out. She recovered but he didn't. His VCS was consistent with

> his lack of recovery. They have since been in two rental houses in

> the 7 months they've been looking for a house to buy. They reacted

to

> the first rental house when they brought contents from the

> contaminated house. Sound familiar?

>

> So here's the question. With what you know from above and with the

> numbers given below, would you recommend they buy or not buy the new

> house?

>

> Genus Main floor Outside Basement

> Basidiospores 80 213 27

> Cladosporium 267 27 320

> Memnoniella* 13 113 0

> Pen/Asp types 160 80 80

> Stachybotrys 13 73 20

> Misc 59 100 128

> TOTALS 593 606 575

>

> *Memnoniella is often associated with Stachybotrys.

>

> Don't be concerned about being " wrong " because, as you know from my

> previous statements, there is no such thing as absolute right and

> wrong. So, and also just for the fun of it, what do you think I

> recommended?

>

> Be brave, this is a learning experience not a contest. Beside, the

> most beneficial learning experiences I've had were when I was wrong.

>

> Carl Grimes

> Healthy Habitats LLC

>

[Guest guest]

I totally agree with this statement. Especially after having been already

exposed and ill from the exposure. Carl, I have a question. Do you know

anything about exposure to Cladisporium and its effects?

who <jeaninem660@...> wrote: -P.S.

buying a home is a long term project. they have mold illness

already, even if these low amounts are accurate,long term could cause

serious problems. and those counts could be different if you did the

same testing tomarrow. -- In , " Carl E.

Grimes " <grimes@...> wrote:

>

> Here's a challenge for those of you that are learning about mold

> sampling by using the Home Depot and EHS culture plates and how to

> interpret the data; or observing those that are.

>

> A house for sale had a " professional " conduct mold testing with

spore

> traps (not culture plates) by one of the best labs in the country.

> One sample upstairs, one in the basement and one outside. No

> inspection was conducted and they refused to interpret the results.

I

> was asked by the buyers to interpret the data for them.

>

> The buyer's previous previous house had mold from leaking EIFS

> (synthetic stucco). The engineering firm that was called to

> investigate opened the walls from inside the house without using

> containment, spreading spores throughout the rest of the house and

on

> contents at levels measured greater than 200,000 per cubic meter

(by

> spore trap). I think we'd all agree that is " a lot. "

>

> Both reacted so severely that staying became impossible, so they

> moved out. She recovered but he didn't. His VCS was consistent with

> his lack of recovery. They have since been in two rental houses in

> the 7 months they've been looking for a house to buy. They reacted

to

> the first rental house when they brought contents from the

> contaminated house. Sound familiar?

>

> So here's the question. With what you know from above and with the

> numbers given below, would you recommend they buy or not buy the new

> house?

>

> Genus Main floor Outside Basement

> Basidiospores 80 213 27

> Cladosporium 267 27 320

> Memnoniella* 13 113 0

> Pen/Asp types 160 80 80

> Stachybotrys 13 73 20

> Misc 59 100 128

> TOTALS 593 606 575

>

> *Memnoniella is often associated with Stachybotrys.

>

> Don't be concerned about being " wrong " because, as you know from my

> previous statements, there is no such thing as absolute right and

> wrong. So, and also just for the fun of it, what do you think I

> recommended?

>

> Be brave, this is a learning experience not a contest. Beside, the

> most beneficial learning experiences I've had were when I was wrong.

>

> Carl Grimes

> Healthy Habitats LLC

>

---------------------------------

How low will we go? Check out Messenger’s low PC-to-Phone call rates.

[Guest guest]

Hi Carl,

I don't know what is considered healthy for spore

trap counts but for ME, I wouldn't buy house

since some molds are higher what appears to me to

be considerably higher inside than outside but

then I am so sensitive now to mold that I need a

cleaner house than this one, but I don't really

understand how much air a spore trap would catch

in good inside air.

Obviously it is in better shape than the previous

one but it seems to need some remediation itself.

Now that I have seen how much difference

something like some poorly filtered a/c units can

be, I would try to see if the higher counts were

caused by something easily changed, like a new

a/c or changed attic insulation but I wouldn't

move without locating the source of the elevated

spores regardless of whether they are toxic or

non toxic types.

--- " Carl E. Grimes " <grimes@...> wrote:

> Here's a challenge for those of you that are

> learning about mold

> sampling by using the Home Depot and EHS

> culture plates and how to

> interpret the data; or observing those that

> are.

>

> A house for sale had a " professional " conduct

> mold testing with spore

> traps (not culture plates) by one of the best

> labs in the country.

> One sample upstairs, one in the basement and

> one outside. No

> inspection was conducted and they refused to

> interpret the results. I

> was asked by the buyers to interpret the data

> for them.

>

> The buyer's previous previous house had mold

> from leaking EIFS

> (synthetic stucco). The engineering firm that

> was called to

> investigate opened the walls from inside the

> house without using

> containment, spreading spores throughout the

> rest of the house and on

> contents at levels measured greater than

> 200,000 per cubic meter (by

> spore trap). I think we'd all agree that is " a

> lot. "

>

> Both reacted so severely that staying became

> impossible, so they

> moved out. She recovered but he didn't. His VCS

> was consistent with

> his lack of recovery. They have since been in

> two rental houses in

> the 7 months they've been looking for a house

> to buy. They reacted to

> the first rental house when they brought

> contents from the

> contaminated house. Sound familiar?

>

> So here's the question. With what you know from

> above and with the

> numbers given below, would you recommend they

> buy or not buy the new

> house?

>

> Genus Main floor Outside

> Basement

> Basidiospores 80 213

> 27

> Cladosporium 267 27

> 320

> Memnoniella* 13 113

> 0

> Pen/Asp types 160 80

> 80

> Stachybotrys 13 73

> 20

> Misc 59 100

> 128

> TOTALS 593 606

> 575

>

> *Memnoniella is often associated with

> Stachybotrys.

>

> Don't be concerned about being " wrong " because,

> as you know from my

> previous statements, there is no such thing as

> absolute right and

> wrong. So, and also just for the fun of it,

> what do you think I

> recommended?

>

> Be brave, this is a learning experience not a

> contest. Beside, the

> most beneficial learning experiences I've had

> were when I was wrong.

>

> Carl Grimes

> Healthy Habitats LLC

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

By no means am I an expert with the counts, but my educated guess

would be no. With long term exposure, the numbers I don't think would

make a difference between today or next week if they were the same

counts. I just think its the molds and reaction time, some can react

immediately, and some react over time. Every one is unique in their

own reaction time, allergic response to the molds, mycotoxins, etc. I

think they should definately get rid of the contaminated items they

have to avoid cross contamination, but have the house tested before

they buy or rent for their own health and protection against these

mold culprits.

Darlene

>

> Here's a challenge for those of you that are learning about mold

> sampling by using the Home Depot and EHS culture plates and how to

> interpret the data; or observing those that are.

>

> A house for sale had a " professional " conduct mold testing with spore

> traps (not culture plates) by one of the best labs in the country.

> One sample upstairs, one in the basement and one outside. No

> inspection was conducted and they refused to interpret the results. I

> was asked by the buyers to interpret the data for them.

>

> The buyer's previous previous house had mold from leaking EIFS

> (synthetic stucco). The engineering firm that was called to

> investigate opened the walls from inside the house without using

> containment, spreading spores throughout the rest of the house and on

> contents at levels measured greater than 200,000 per cubic meter (by

> spore trap). I think we'd all agree that is " a lot. "

>

> Both reacted so severely that staying became impossible, so they

> moved out. She recovered but he didn't. His VCS was consistent with

> his lack of recovery. They have since been in two rental houses in

> the 7 months they've been looking for a house to buy. They reacted to

> the first rental house when they brought contents from the

> contaminated house. Sound familiar?

>

> So here's the question. With what you know from above and with the

> numbers given below, would you recommend they buy or not buy the new

> house?

>

> Genus Main floor Outside Basement

> Basidiospores 80 213 27

> Cladosporium 267 27 320

> Memnoniella* 13 113 0

> Pen/Asp types 160 80 80

> Stachybotrys 13 73 20

> Misc 59 100 128

> TOTALS 593 606 575

>

> *Memnoniella is often associated with Stachybotrys.

>

> Don't be concerned about being " wrong " because, as you know from my

> previous statements, there is no such thing as absolute right and

> wrong. So, and also just for the fun of it, what do you think I

> recommended?

>

> Be brave, this is a learning experience not a contest. Beside, the

> most beneficial learning experiences I've had were when I was wrong.

>

> Carl Grimes

> Healthy Habitats LLC

>

[Guest guest]

Hmm that is a good point about not buying a house with a basement at all! We

looked at an apartment in another complex when we were deciding to move out of

this apartment, and it had a basement, so right away I said, nope, can't risk

it. We'll be on the top floor in the new apartment with nothing above us

except, well, a roof.

Lori

[Guest guest]

a properly built house ona slab is the way to go.

Lori Baur <lori@...> wrote: Hmm that is a good point about not

buying a house with a basement at all! We looked at an apartment in another

complex when we were deciding to move out of this apartment, and it had a

basement, so right away I said, nope, can't risk it. We'll be on the top floor

in the new apartment with nothing above us except, well, a roof.

Lori

[Guest guest]

its called TORNADO SEASON, abbie......

victoria

Re: [] Mold analysis challange

why would people with mold problems buy a house with a basement???

why not purchase a slab???

" Carl E. Grimes " <grimes@...> wrote:

Here's a challenge for those of you that are learning about mold

sampling by using the Home Depot and EHS culture plates and how to

interpret the data; or observing those that are.

A house for sale had a " professional " conduct mold testing with spore

traps (not culture plates) by one of the best labs in the country.

One sample upstairs, one in the basement and one outside. No

inspection was conducted and they refused to interpret the results. I

was asked by the buyers to interpret the data for them.

The buyer's previous previous house had mold from leaking EIFS

(synthetic stucco). The engineering firm that was called to

investigate opened the walls from inside the house without using

containment, spreading spores throughout the rest of the house and on

contents at levels measured greater than 200,000 per cubic meter (by

spore trap). I think we'd all agree that is " a lot. "

Both reacted so severely that staying became impossible, so they

moved out. She recovered but he didn't. His VCS was consistent with

his lack of recovery. They have since been in two rental houses in

the 7 months they've been looking for a house to buy. They reacted to

the first rental house when they brought contents from the

contaminated house. Sound familiar?

So here's the question. With what you know from above and with the

numbers given below, would you recommend they buy or not buy the new

house?

Genus Main floor Outside Basement

Basidiospores 80 213 27

Cladosporium 267 27 320

Memnoniella* 13 113 0

Pen/Asp types 160 80 80

Stachybotrys 13 73 20

Misc 59 100 128

TOTALS 593 606 575

*Memnoniella is often associated with Stachybotrys.

Don't be concerned about being " wrong " because, as you know from my

previous statements, there is no such thing as absolute right and

wrong. So, and also just for the fun of it, what do you think I

recommended?

Be brave, this is a learning experience not a contest. Beside, the

most beneficial learning experiences I've had were when I was wrong.

Carl Grimes

Healthy Habitats LLC

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

Carl,

I have only had 'professional' testing done, never tried the 'do it yourself'

route with plates. It is my understanding that the indoor counts should be

lower than the outdoor counts, which individually there are higher indoor counts

in your results. But, the numbers do not seem to be very high. Most importantly,

I have been told by every 'expert' I have encountered that there should never be

any stachybotrys found indoors.

Will you teach us how to interpret these numbers?

Sue

Sue ston

Loan Originator

Sunset Mortgage Company

989.274.0221

Fax 989.799.4520

Residential * Commercial * Construction * Refinance

[Guest guest]

i would think anyone truly sick could not tolerate a moldy basement shelter

<toriaquilts@...> wrote: its called TORNADO SEASON,

abbie......

victoria

Re: [] Mold analysis challange

why would people with mold problems buy a house with a basement???

why not purchase a slab???

" Carl E. Grimes " <grimes@...> wrote:

Here's a challenge for those of you that are learning about mold

sampling by using the Home Depot and EHS culture plates and how to

interpret the data; or observing those that are.

A house for sale had a " professional " conduct mold testing with spore

traps (not culture plates) by one of the best labs in the country.

One sample upstairs, one in the basement and one outside. No

inspection was conducted and they refused to interpret the results. I

was asked by the buyers to interpret the data for them.

The buyer's previous previous house had mold from leaking EIFS

(synthetic stucco). The engineering firm that was called to

investigate opened the walls from inside the house without using

containment, spreading spores throughout the rest of the house and on

contents at levels measured greater than 200,000 per cubic meter (by

spore trap). I think we'd all agree that is " a lot. "

Both reacted so severely that staying became impossible, so they

moved out. She recovered but he didn't. His VCS was consistent with

his lack of recovery. They have since been in two rental houses in

the 7 months they've been looking for a house to buy. They reacted to

the first rental house when they brought contents from the

contaminated house. Sound familiar?

So here's the question. With what you know from above and with the

numbers given below, would you recommend they buy or not buy the new

house?

Genus Main floor Outside Basement

Basidiospores 80 213 27

Cladosporium 267 27 320

Memnoniella* 13 113 0

Pen/Asp types 160 80 80

Stachybotrys 13 73 20

Misc 59 100 128

TOTALS 593 606 575

*Memnoniella is often associated with Stachybotrys.

Don't be concerned about being " wrong " because, as you know from my

previous statements, there is no such thing as absolute right and

wrong. So, and also just for the fun of it, what do you think I

recommended?

Be brave, this is a learning experience not a contest. Beside, the

most beneficial learning experiences I've had were when I was wrong.

Carl Grimes

Healthy Habitats LLC

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

not ALL basements are moldy, leigh...

Re: [] Mold analysis challange

why would people with mold problems buy a house with a basement???

why not purchase a slab???

" Carl E. Grimes " <grimes@...> wrote:

Here's a challenge for those of you that are learning about mold

sampling by using the Home Depot and EHS culture plates and how to

interpret the data; or observing those that are.

A house for sale had a " professional " conduct mold testing with spore

traps (not culture plates) by one of the best labs in the country.

One sample upstairs, one in the basement and one outside. No

inspection was conducted and they refused to interpret the results. I

was asked by the buyers to interpret the data for them.

The buyer's previous previous house had mold from leaking EIFS

(synthetic stucco). The engineering firm that was called to

investigate opened the walls from inside the house without using

containment, spreading spores throughout the rest of the house and on

contents at levels measured greater than 200,000 per cubic meter (by

spore trap). I think we'd all agree that is " a lot. "

Both reacted so severely that staying became impossible, so they

moved out. She recovered but he didn't. His VCS was consistent with

his lack of recovery. They have since been in two rental houses in

the 7 months they've been looking for a house to buy. They reacted to

the first rental house when they brought contents from the

contaminated house. Sound familiar?

So here's the question. With what you know from above and with the

numbers given below, would you recommend they buy or not buy the new

house?

Genus Main floor Outside Basement

Basidiospores 80 213 27

Cladosporium 267 27 320

Memnoniella* 13 113 0

Pen/Asp types 160 80 80

Stachybotrys 13 73 20

Misc 59 100 128

TOTALS 593 606 575

*Memnoniella is often associated with Stachybotrys.

Don't be concerned about being " wrong " because, as you know from my

previous statements, there is no such thing as absolute right and

wrong. So, and also just for the fun of it, what do you think I

recommended?

Be brave, this is a learning experience not a contest. Beside, the

most beneficial learning experiences I've had were when I was wrong.

Carl Grimes

Healthy Habitats LLC

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

We could if a tornado was coming.

Chris...

Leigh McCall-Alton <mccallalton@...> wrote:

i would think anyone truly sick could not tolerate a moldy basement

shelter

<toriaquilts@...> wrote: its called TORNADO SEASON, abbie......

victoria

Re: [] Mold analysis challange

why would people with mold problems buy a house with a basement???

why not purchase a slab???

" Carl E. Grimes " <grimes@...> wrote:

Here's a challenge for those of you that are learning about mold

sampling by using the Home Depot and EHS culture plates and how to

interpret the data; or observing those that are.

A house for sale had a " professional " conduct mold testing with spore

traps (not culture plates) by one of the best labs in the country.

One sample upstairs, one in the basement and one outside. No

inspection was conducted and they refused to interpret the results. I

was asked by the buyers to interpret the data for them.

The buyer's previous previous house had mold from leaking EIFS

(synthetic stucco). The engineering firm that was called to

investigate opened the walls from inside the house without using

containment, spreading spores throughout the rest of the house and on

contents at levels measured greater than 200,000 per cubic meter (by

spore trap). I think we'd all agree that is " a lot. "

Both reacted so severely that staying became impossible, so they

moved out. She recovered but he didn't. His VCS was consistent with

his lack of recovery. They have since been in two rental houses in

the 7 months they've been looking for a house to buy. They reacted to

the first rental house when they brought contents from the

contaminated house. Sound familiar?

So here's the question. With what you know from above and with the

numbers given below, would you recommend they buy or not buy the new

house?

Genus Main floor Outside Basement

Basidiospores 80 213 27

Cladosporium 267 27 320

Memnoniella* 13 113 0

Pen/Asp types 160 80 80

Stachybotrys 13 73 20

Misc 59 100 128

TOTALS 593 606 575

*Memnoniella is often associated with Stachybotrys.

Don't be concerned about being " wrong " because, as you know from my

previous statements, there is no such thing as absolute right and

wrong. So, and also just for the fun of it, what do you think I

recommended?

Be brave, this is a learning experience not a contest. Beside, the

most beneficial learning experiences I've had were when I was wrong.

Carl Grimes

Healthy Habitats LLC

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

The one in the analysis is .....

============================

In responce to the numbers being low, my basement in the contaminated home had

64, counts/M³ - 1, Raw data stachybotrys airborne and that was more than

enough.

Chris...

<toriaquilts@...> wrote:

not ALL basements are moldy, leigh...

Re: [] Mold analysis challange

why would people with mold problems buy a house with a basement???

why not purchase a slab???

" Carl E. Grimes " <grimes@...> wrote:

Here's a challenge for those of you that are learning about mold

sampling by using the Home Depot and EHS culture plates and how to

interpret the data; or observing those that are.

A house for sale had a " professional " conduct mold testing with spore

traps (not culture plates) by one of the best labs in the country.

One sample upstairs, one in the basement and one outside. No

inspection was conducted and they refused to interpret the results. I

was asked by the buyers to interpret the data for them.

The buyer's previous previous house had mold from leaking EIFS

(synthetic stucco). The engineering firm that was called to

investigate opened the walls from inside the house without using

containment, spreading spores throughout the rest of the house and on

contents at levels measured greater than 200,000 per cubic meter (by

spore trap). I think we'd all agree that is " a lot. "

Both reacted so severely that staying became impossible, so they

moved out. She recovered but he didn't. His VCS was consistent with

his lack of recovery. They have since been in two rental houses in

the 7 months they've been looking for a house to buy. They reacted to

the first rental house when they brought contents from the

contaminated house. Sound familiar?

So here's the question. With what you know from above and with the

numbers given below, would you recommend they buy or not buy the new

house?

Genus Main floor Outside Basement

Basidiospores 80 213 27

Cladosporium 267 27 320

Memnoniella* 13 113 0

Pen/Asp types 160 80 80

Stachybotrys 13 73 20

Misc 59 100 128

TOTALS 593 606 575

*Memnoniella is often associated with Stachybotrys.

Don't be concerned about being " wrong " because, as you know from my

previous statements, there is no such thing as absolute right and

wrong. So, and also just for the fun of it, what do you think I

recommended?

Be brave, this is a learning experience not a contest. Beside, the

most beneficial learning experiences I've had were when I was wrong.

Carl Grimes

Healthy Habitats LLC

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

i don't know about yours, chris, but my basement has NEVER had any water damage

at all. its bone-dry, as the saying goes.

victoria

Re: [] Mold analysis challange

why would people with mold problems buy a house with a basement???

why not purchase a slab???

" Carl E. Grimes " <grimes@...> wrote:

Here's a challenge for those of you that are learning about mold

sampling by using the Home Depot and EHS culture plates and how to

interpret the data; or observing those that are.

A house for sale had a " professional " conduct mold testing with spore

traps (not culture plates) by one of the best labs in the country.

One sample upstairs, one in the basement and one outside. No

inspection was conducted and they refused to interpret the results. I

was asked by the buyers to interpret the data for them.

The buyer's previous previous house had mold from leaking EIFS

(synthetic stucco). The engineering firm that was called to

investigate opened the walls from inside the house without using

containment, spreading spores throughout the rest of the house and on

contents at levels measured greater than 200,000 per cubic meter (by

spore trap). I think we'd all agree that is " a lot. "

Both reacted so severely that staying became impossible, so they

moved out. She recovered but he didn't. His VCS was consistent with

his lack of recovery. They have since been in two rental houses in

the 7 months they've been looking for a house to buy. They reacted to

the first rental house when they brought contents from the

contaminated house. Sound familiar?

So here's the question. With what you know from above and with the

numbers given below, would you recommend they buy or not buy the new

house?

Genus Main floor Outside Basement

Basidiospores 80 213 27

Cladosporium 267 27 320

Memnoniella* 13 113 0

Pen/Asp types 160 80 80

Stachybotrys 13 73 20

Misc 59 100 128

TOTALS 593 606 575

*Memnoniella is often associated with Stachybotrys.

Don't be concerned about being " wrong " because, as you know from my

previous statements, there is no such thing as absolute right and

wrong. So, and also just for the fun of it, what do you think I

recommended?

Be brave, this is a learning experience not a contest. Beside, the

most beneficial learning experiences I've had were when I was wrong.

Carl Grimes

Healthy Habitats LLC

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

Amen, Chris! I can't tolerate really moldy surroundings either.....but ANYTHING

is better than being scooped off the face of the earth by a twister!

Re: [] Mold analysis challange

why would people with mold problems buy a house with a basement???

why not purchase a slab???

" Carl E. Grimes " <grimes@...> wrote:

Here's a challenge for those of you that are learning about mold

sampling by using the Home Depot and EHS culture plates and how to

interpret the data; or observing those that are.

A house for sale had a " professional " conduct mold testing with spore

traps (not culture plates) by one of the best labs in the country.

One sample upstairs, one in the basement and one outside. No

inspection was conducted and they refused to interpret the results. I

was asked by the buyers to interpret the data for them.

The buyer's previous previous house had mold from leaking EIFS

(synthetic stucco). The engineering firm that was called to

investigate opened the walls from inside the house without using

containment, spreading spores throughout the rest of the house and on

contents at levels measured greater than 200,000 per cubic meter (by

spore trap). I think we'd all agree that is " a lot. "

Both reacted so severely that staying became impossible, so they

moved out. She recovered but he didn't. His VCS was consistent with

his lack of recovery. They have since been in two rental houses in

the 7 months they've been looking for a house to buy. They reacted to

the first rental house when they brought contents from the

contaminated house. Sound familiar?

So here's the question. With what you know from above and with the

numbers given below, would you recommend they buy or not buy the new

house?

Genus Main floor Outside Basement

Basidiospores 80 213 27

Cladosporium 267 27 320

Memnoniella* 13 113 0

Pen/Asp types 160 80 80

Stachybotrys 13 73 20

Misc 59 100 128

TOTALS 593 606 575

*Memnoniella is often associated with Stachybotrys.

Don't be concerned about being " wrong " because, as you know from my

previous statements, there is no such thing as absolute right and

wrong. So, and also just for the fun of it, what do you think I

recommended?

Be brave, this is a learning experience not a contest. Beside, the

most beneficial learning experiences I've had were when I was wrong.

Carl Grimes

Healthy Habitats LLC

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

That is great... Unfortunately my basement was not only in a flood plane but it

flooded allot and for probably years. I had just moved in when hurricane Dennis

and came through Atlanta. I vacuumed out over 2 " of standing water...

Chris...

<toriaquilts@...> wrote:

i don't know about yours, chris, but my basement has NEVER had any

water damage at all. its bone-dry, as the saying goes.

victoria

Re: [] Mold analysis challange

why would people with mold problems buy a house with a basement???

why not purchase a slab???

" Carl E. Grimes " <grimes@...> wrote:

Here's a challenge for those of you that are learning about mold

sampling by using the Home Depot and EHS culture plates and how to

interpret the data; or observing those that are.

A house for sale had a " professional " conduct mold testing with spore

traps (not culture plates) by one of the best labs in the country.

One sample upstairs, one in the basement and one outside. No

inspection was conducted and they refused to interpret the results. I

was asked by the buyers to interpret the data for them.

The buyer's previous previous house had mold from leaking EIFS

(synthetic stucco). The engineering firm that was called to

investigate opened the walls from inside the house without using

containment, spreading spores throughout the rest of the house and on

contents at levels measured greater than 200,000 per cubic meter (by

spore trap). I think we'd all agree that is " a lot. "

Both reacted so severely that staying became impossible, so they

moved out. She recovered but he didn't. His VCS was consistent with

his lack of recovery. They have since been in two rental houses in

the 7 months they've been looking for a house to buy. They reacted to

the first rental house when they brought contents from the

contaminated house. Sound familiar?

So here's the question. With what you know from above and with the

numbers given below, would you recommend they buy or not buy the new

house?

Genus Main floor Outside Basement

Basidiospores 80 213 27

Cladosporium 267 27 320

Memnoniella* 13 113 0

Pen/Asp types 160 80 80

Stachybotrys 13 73 20

Misc 59 100 128

TOTALS 593 606 575

*Memnoniella is often associated with Stachybotrys.

Don't be concerned about being " wrong " because, as you know from my

previous statements, there is no such thing as absolute right and

wrong. So, and also just for the fun of it, what do you think I

recommended?

Be brave, this is a learning experience not a contest. Beside, the

most beneficial learning experiences I've had were when I was wrong.

Carl Grimes

Healthy Habitats LLC

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

oh brother, chris.....i sure HOPE things are dry there now, & that you're not

having further symptoms? my problem wasn't caused by my dry home--it was caused

by my former workplace.

take care,

victoria

Re: [] Mold analysis challange

why would people with mold problems buy a house with a basement???

why not purchase a slab???

" Carl E. Grimes " <grimes@...> wrote:

Here's a challenge for those of you that are learning about mold

sampling by using the Home Depot and EHS culture plates and how to

interpret the data; or observing those that are.

A house for sale had a " professional " conduct mold testing with spore

traps (not culture plates) by one of the best labs in the country.

One sample upstairs, one in the basement and one outside. No

inspection was conducted and they refused to interpret the results. I

was asked by the buyers to interpret the data for them.

The buyer's previous previous house had mold from leaking EIFS

(synthetic stucco). The engineering firm that was called to

investigate opened the walls from inside the house without using

containment, spreading spores throughout the rest of the house and on

contents at levels measured greater than 200,000 per cubic meter (by

spore trap). I think we'd all agree that is " a lot. "

Both reacted so severely that staying became impossible, so they

moved out. She recovered but he didn't. His VCS was consistent with

his lack of recovery. They have since been in two rental houses in

the 7 months they've been looking for a house to buy. They reacted to

the first rental house when they brought contents from the

contaminated house. Sound familiar?

So here's the question. With what you know from above and with the

numbers given below, would you recommend they buy or not buy the new

house?

Genus Main floor Outside Basement

Basidiospores 80 213 27

Cladosporium 267 27 320

Memnoniella* 13 113 0

Pen/Asp types 160 80 80

Stachybotrys 13 73 20

Misc 59 100 128

TOTALS 593 606 575

*Memnoniella is often associated with Stachybotrys.

Don't be concerned about being " wrong " because, as you know from my

previous statements, there is no such thing as absolute right and

wrong. So, and also just for the fun of it, what do you think I

recommended?

Be brave, this is a learning experience not a contest. Beside, the

most beneficial learning experiences I've had were when I was wrong.

Carl Grimes

Healthy Habitats LLC

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

-I agree, any stachy is to much.-- In ,

Tazin Round <unitedstatesvet@...> wrote:

>

> The one in the analysis is .....

> ============================

> In responce to the numbers being low, my basement in the

contaminated home had 64, counts/M³ - 1, Raw data stachybotrys

airborne and that was more than enough.

> Chris...

>

>

> <toriaquilts@...> wrote:

> not ALL basements are moldy, leigh...

>

> Re: [] Mold analysis challange

>

> why would people with mold problems buy a house with a basement???

> why not purchase a slab???

>

> " Carl E. Grimes " <grimes@...> wrote:

> Here's a challenge for those of you that are learning about mold

> sampling by using the Home Depot and EHS culture plates and how to

> interpret the data; or observing those that are.

>

> A house for sale had a " professional " conduct mold testing with

spore

> traps (not culture plates) by one of the best labs in the country.

> One sample upstairs, one in the basement and one outside. No

> inspection was conducted and they refused to interpret the results.

I

> was asked by the buyers to interpret the data for them.

>

> The buyer's previous previous house had mold from leaking EIFS

> (synthetic stucco). The engineering firm that was called to

> investigate opened the walls from inside the house without using

> containment, spreading spores throughout the rest of the house and

on

> contents at levels measured greater than 200,000 per cubic meter

(by

> spore trap). I think we'd all agree that is " a lot. "

>

> Both reacted so severely that staying became impossible, so they

> moved out. She recovered but he didn't. His VCS was consistent with

> his lack of recovery. They have since been in two rental houses in

> the 7 months they've been looking for a house to buy. They reacted

to

> the first rental house when they brought contents from the

> contaminated house. Sound familiar?

>

> So here's the question. With what you know from above and with the

> numbers given below, would you recommend they buy or not buy the new

> house?

>

> Genus Main floor Outside Basement

> Basidiospores 80 213 27

> Cladosporium 267 27 320

> Memnoniella* 13 113 0

> Pen/Asp types 160 80 80

> Stachybotrys 13 73 20

> Misc 59 100 128

> TOTALS 593 606 575

>

> *Memnoniella is often associated with Stachybotrys.

>

> Don't be concerned about being " wrong " because, as you know from my

> previous statements, there is no such thing as absolute right and

> wrong. So, and also just for the fun of it, what do you think I

> recommended?

>

> Be brave, this is a learning experience not a contest. Beside, the

> most beneficial learning experiences I've had were when I was wrong.

>

> Carl Grimes

> Healthy Habitats LLC

>

> __________________________________________________

>

[Guest guest]

Okay, here's my cut on this.

Stachybotrys rarely sporulates, so I would guess that having stachy

show up in any air sample indicates the building has problems.. (and

not having it show up doesn't indicate that there are not serious or

unserious stachy problems there, just that the timing of that single

test didn't catch any sporulating at that time)

???

[Guest guest]

Yes, all homes here are subject to tornados in

the Ohio River valley and have basements.

In CA my house was on a slab but heavy rain

washed it out (after we sold it, neighbors told

us later), so there are downfalls to not having

one.

--- <toriaquilts@...> wrote:

> its called TORNADO SEASON, abbie......

> victoria

>

>

[Guest guest]

All basements are not moldy and they can be

repaired. The mold counts in my basement are not

any different than the rest of my house now that

basement foundation was repaired from the outside

in, like it should be. In fact the garage, which

is in the basement has had second lowest count in

the house, I assume because now only problem is

in attic and attic air cannot get into garage and

also there is no fabric in garage to grow on (or

in basement either). Six years ago garage was

the moldiest area but I had wall that was damaged

replaced and garage was cleaned and painted then

and I haven't had a problem since and it is in

the basement but divided off from air conditioned

or heated part of basement.

The upside of a basement where allergens and mold

is concerned is that they generally don't have

alot of things mold can grow on easily if they

are maintained well, usually not carpeted for

have fabric furniture. I think reason they have

problems is frequently ignored as unimportant and

not cleaned or maintained as well as rest of

house, which was the case with me. I did not

start to 'much' pay attention to basement until I

had the idea to use the basement as an office,

when actually basement air was mixing with whole

house air and I didn't realize it.

I think once cinderblock gets moldy, it should be

replaced by solid concrete if at all possible.

If not it has to be protected from *outside*

against water intrusion. I had about a dozen

water proofing companies here and they all

proposed an inside repair only which made problem

'disappear' but not go away. Eventually had to

do the work outside anyway.

--- Leigh McCall-Alton <mccallalton@...>

wrote:

> i would think anyone truly sick could not

> tolerate a moldy basement shelter

>