Citrus Oils ** Folded or Otherwise

[Guest guest]

Hi Butch and All,

I'm curious about hydrosol made from sweet orange peel. My guess is that

this would be skin safe and should not be sensitizing since the terpenes aren't

water soluble. I recently distilled some patchouli with sweet orange

peel---good smelling combo! What do you think? , are you out there?

Angie

The Herbarie

http://www.theherbarie.com/

[Guest guest]

Hi Butch and All,

I'm curious about hydrosol made from sweet orange peel. My guess is that

this would be skin safe and should not be sensitizing since the terpenes aren't

water soluble. I recently distilled some patchouli with sweet orange

peel---good smelling combo! What do you think? , are you out there?

Angie

The Herbarie

http://www.theherbarie.com/

[Guest guest]

Hi y'all,

My first post to the list since July 2003. And yes, I am still above

snakes .. just a really busy feller. ;-)

The mystery of Citrus oils has not yet been unraveled. Whether or not

raw cold pressed Sweet Orange (Citrus sinensis) can/does and how often

cause photo sensitization is controversial .. cause its not normally

used in cosmetics so its not been properly tested by the cosmetics

folks. It has been tested but not as well as they test oils commonly

used in the cosmetics industry. So the information we have to go on is

from individuals and from some of the many " novels " out in the industry.

There are variables and exceptions .. like photo sensitization being

noticed by those who harvest the fruits and have probably gotta lotta

oil on their hands and/or body .. so concentration might be the issue.

Folded oils have the terpenes removed .. and the scent and the oil lasts

longer. Is it a natural oil? Nope! Folding is more often than not

done for the foods and flavoring industry .. and in cosmetics.

http://www.floridachemical.com/datasheets/foldedorangeoil.html

Below are some comments I made in response to questions on another list.

> My understanding was that distilled citrus oils lacked the

> photosensitizing chemicals... ie, the difference in safety btwn steam

> distilled and cold pressed lime oil. And since the 5 fold orange is

> steam distilled...I would think that is where the assumption of safety

> is.

I believe you are right .. and I believe that if we ask ten so-called

experts to list those safe and unsafe Citrus oils .. be they distilled

or cold pressed .. we will start an argument betwixt those so-called

experts.

There is NO CONSENSUS OF OPINION!!!

However .. there are lots of contradictions among individuals in their

own writings.

I am not saying I am quoting experts now .. its your call if they are to

be considered as such .. but I will mention that in one place Lawless

writes that Distilled Orange is photo toxic and Expressed Orange is not.

When we talk about Orange we have Sweet and Bitter with two different

Botanical handles and different chemical constituents. Not sure which

one she is confused on in the second place.

On Mandarin (Citrus reticulata), Lawless lists it as photo toxic in one

area and in another indicates that it hasn't been proven to be so.

Some books claim expressed Lime (Citrus aurantifolia) is photo toxic but

distilled is not .. some say the whole fruit when distilled is not ..

and that to me means they are guessing because whole fruit distillation

is not a norm and its very hard (not impossible) to find it.

Some claim Grapefruit (Citrus paradisi) is photo toxic and some claim

its not.

All in all .. I think that based on the chemical composition of various

Citrus we cannot determine that IN ALL CASES this or that Citrus will or

will not be photo toxic if CP or Distilled .. SAVE ONE .. that is

Bergamot (Citrus bergamia).

We can bet our last buck that Bergamot (except FCF) will burn us in a

heartbeat.

> What I find interesting is that so many soapers seem to be using the 5

> fold in products meant to be used for degreasing...and if the d-Limonene

> is removed... isn't that the degreaser???

In my opinion .. you are right and removal of the d-Limonene results in

a product that is less effective as a degreaser.

What happens when Citrus is folded .. and it happens during ONE

distillation .. matters not if its 5 X or 10 X .. is that hydrocarbons

are removed .. and we have a product with a boosted oxygen content. And

they keep longer, smell better and taste better. Plus they are more

soluble so its easier to make flavor bases.

But I have not once read that a folded Citrus oil is not photo toxic

after folding .. maybe it is and maybe it isn't. But then, maybe it is

or isn't photo toxic to all folks all the time in the first place.

Bergamot is photo toxic .. that is certain .. but it is NOT certain that

other Citrus oils are .. I have heard of and personally know of too many

exceptions .. so we can't say for sure. If someone has more information

than I have presented here .. I would be happy to see it.

But its not just photosensitivity we need to be concerned with. Below

are Watt's comments on Folded Citrus .. made on another list a

year or so ago .. and repeated with his permission ..

> I am not so concerned about the photosensitizing capacity of folded

> citrus oils, but more so about their potential sensitizing properties. I

> believe the coumarin waxes are removed with the processing although that

> data is not indicated in the safety sheets. However, the concentration

> process will inevitably concentrate other chemicals in the oil which

> might cause ordinary sensitization reactions. The fact is no one knows

> because it has *not been formally tested for skin safety*.

>

> As to the use of these concentrates in food: You have to appreciate that

> manufacturers only use these folded oils as flavors in parts per

> million. Bitter orange oil has a maximum reported volume of use as 428

> parts per million as a flavour, the 5 x oil would therefore be way

> lower. This is like cinnamon bark oil, not a big problem with tiny

> amounts in food, but on the skin - no way! I doubt that a drop of this

> orange concentrate in a bath occasionally would cause any problems, but

> I certainly would not recommend it for use in any cosmetic type

> applications at anything above the amount used in foods. It is regular

> use that can cause the problems.

If anybody feels confused after reading this post .. you are in good

company because the majority of the so-called experts in this industry

are right in their with you .. whether they will admit it or not. ;-)

Y'all keep smiling. :-) Butch http://www.AV-AT.com

[Guest guest]

Angie,

The whole hydrosol thing is quite confusing to me, but the way I

understand it is that a hydrosol is water supersaturated with

essential oil. If so, then it does contain the same terpenes from the

essential oil except much diluted. I've only seen this one chemical

analysis of a hydrosol and it indeed does contain terpenes - the most

concentrated being limonene:

http://www.essentiallyoils.com/Features/Floral/floral.htm

This analysis however is for rose water rather than sweet orange so it

might be different. Have you seen other chemical analysis of hydrosols

anywhere?

> Hi Butch and All,

> I'm curious about hydrosol made from sweet orange peel. My guess is

that

> this would be skin safe and should not be sensitizing since the

terpenes aren't

> water soluble. I recently distilled some patchouli with sweet orange

> peel---good smelling combo! What do you think? , are you out

there?

>

> Angie

>

> The Herbarie

> http://www.theherbarie.com/

[Guest guest]

Angie,

The whole hydrosol thing is quite confusing to me, but the way I

understand it is that a hydrosol is water supersaturated with

essential oil. If so, then it does contain the same terpenes from the

essential oil except much diluted. I've only seen this one chemical

analysis of a hydrosol and it indeed does contain terpenes - the most

concentrated being limonene:

http://www.essentiallyoils.com/Features/Floral/floral.htm

This analysis however is for rose water rather than sweet orange so it

might be different. Have you seen other chemical analysis of hydrosols

anywhere?

> Hi Butch and All,

> I'm curious about hydrosol made from sweet orange peel. My guess is

that

> this would be skin safe and should not be sensitizing since the

terpenes aren't

> water soluble. I recently distilled some patchouli with sweet orange

> peel---good smelling combo! What do you think? , are you out

there?

>

> Angie

>

> The Herbarie

> http://www.theherbarie.com/