Re: Re: Hey barb /LIVE SIMPLY

[Guest guest]

Barb,

I wasn't saying that lab analysis wasn't worthwhile or useful

(If I sounded that way, I definitely didn't mean to)

Its very, very useful in lots of situations..clearly..

I think there are a few people here who probably know why I was

concerned - and what I'm concerned about..

Basically, I think that air testing can easily be wrongly used to say a

given space is 'okay' when it isn't.. and that concerns me..

because I am coming out of a nasty mold situation, with a landlord from hell,

who couldn't care less about tenants health..

(they wanted to see tenants keep moving in and out, every few years..)

'Clearance' tests that show backround levels of mold on one day might satisfy

some people, but often there is a need to do serious, long postponed

remediation in a building.. and what really needs to happen is a

documentaion of that work, not

some 15 minute test.. How could people know what was inside the walls?

What would happen on windy days.. What would happen when it rains.

when people live in the space..

Even with the best intentions, there are SO MANY VARIABLES..

A building that has had a mold problem for many, many years won't get

better without a LOT of work.. without cracking into a lot of walls..

OTOH, if a person is trying to get rid of a mold problem they know

about, testing might be able to help locate hidden mold reservoirs..

Thats basically what I think its the most useful for.. But its also

useful in a zillion other ways.. But its also not a panacea..

And legally, as Carl points out.. mold is not toxin.. Recently mold

cases have gotten shot down because of a lack of toxin testing..

In my own situation, we were living in a mold hell and our spore

counts were very high and our landlord basically said that we had to

live with them because " they were complying with all applicable laws "

(which was NO LAWS) - This wasn't really true, but its scary.. And we

still have not found a lawyer because the truth is no state in America

has standards for mold exposure.. You literally have to die or get so

very sick that you might as well be, it seems, and ALSO be able to

prove it, beyond a shadow of a doubt.. to be worth the lawyers time..

That bar is so very, very high, and they keep raising it all the time,

that its doubtful to me that almost anybody would be able to be

successful in a mold suit nomatter how much they had been injured.. I

hope I'm wrong, but that is what I think now after trying for months

to get a lawyer.. Its not enough to have lost years of yur life.. Its

not enough to have gotten very sick.. In our case, our landlord was

literally cultivating mold intentionally.. I'm not kidding.. to drive

us away .. And it worked..

Thats why I think mold tests need to be used as part of a group of

things to fight mold.. it should not be used to show a situation is

'okay' in lieu of real documented extensive remediation..

If you leave any holes for these sleazeballs to squeeze through so

they can get out of spending the money to remediate, they WILL take

it.. And poor people, kids in schools, etc, WILL suffer..

" EVERYTHINGS OKAY NOW " This piece of paper that I BOUGHT says so..

Right.. Bull...

Okay, I got that off my chest.. See where I'm coming from now?

[Guest guest]

bbw said:

>Why are you all so caught up in the names of the

molds anyway??

>Who care what their names are? I

think it is the number of spores in air that

count. If you have a high number of the SAME

TYPE of mold, that shows it is growing in the

house.

>If you have high number of mold, you have

a moisture or leak problem that has to be cleaned

up regardless of what the name of mold is.

> I think you all are silly about this. What matters

to me is QUANTITY only. If it's high, expert

doctors have told me ANY mold, regardless of what

you call it, can make you sick, any mold if it is

in high quantity. How do you know the QUANTITY,

by mold plates, if done correctly. I'm not going

to pay thousands of dollars for someone to give

me a count when I can take it myself.

BBW,

It makes a VERY large difference what kinds of mold

are there because some kinds of molds can make you

VERY ill and those kinds of mold are not in every mold situation.

In fact, if a mold situation is of short duration and is cleaned up quickly,

the chances I think are very slim that it would become toxic.

The worst problems are in buildings that have been water damaged repeatedly and

for long periods of time, then dried out, then water damaged again..

and then NOT CLEANED UP THOROUGHLY, EVER..

Scientists describe certain species of molds as toxinogenic, which means

that they are capable of producing mycotoxins. In many cases, they

represent a sort of

'climax ecosystem' in water damaged buildings that occurs after many

other molds have come and gone.. I suspect..

Those seriously toxic molds typically need seriously high humidity..

over a LONG period of time.. That doesn't happen in maintained

buildings..it requires leaks or flooding, basically..

And once a building has gotten bad, its not a simple matter of

cleaning up the active mold growth sites to make it healthy.. I fact,

I have heard again and again that there are buildings that test

'clean' that still have serious mycotoxin problems..

Thats a crucial weakness of mold testing, and until we realize that

mold testing needs to be done with toxin testing, we won't be doing

what we NEED to do to KEEP PEOPLE SAFE..

[Guest guest]

Live Simply,

I see. There are different ways to come to same

conlusion. In my case, I test positive to

substantial amount of mycotoxins in my body so I

don't need to find toxic mold in my house.

Important thing is I have it in me. Now I have

to figure out from where. Most important clue

is/was that I noted for last few years that I

felt sicker at home and many times going out

releived my symptoms so there you go. It's in my

urine and in my blood so. For someone needing

someone 'else' to clean it up I see the

importance of more precise testing. For me,

since I have to clean it up and pay for it

myself, how I find where problem is and fix it is

different approach. That is where clash in

methods keeps coming up. I'm aiming to clean up

all 'moldy' areas of house regardless of name of

microbes there. I will retest when those are

clean, if still too moldy, I have to hunt for

area but I'm pretty sure I know where the

problems are. Was just basement until summer hit

and brought down attic air,now I see attic air

shows a problem by MY OWN REACTIONS TO IT, kind

of like using his own body to tell him when

there is a problem. Old symptoms came back and I

started looking for where they would be coming

from. Okay, please realize that people may be

doing things differently due to their

circumstances. I don't need proof to anyone that

house has toxins in it, tests of my body is

proof. For you, that wouldn't be good enough

since you need to show landlord the toxin came

from a mold in his apartment. For me, I don't

need that. It is worse since I have to pay the

price for my health and my house health and it

all just loss, I cannot blame anyone else. So my

situation is different than yours. I'm sticking

with the culture plates, and I do swab test when

I find visible mold (in unusual place, not shower

curtain -although oddly I have never seen mold in

my bathroom or on shower curtain. You would

think moldy place would have that but I have

almost no visible mold anyplace in house since I

cleaned up mold in basement in 2000.

--- LiveSimply <quackadillian@...> wrote:

> bbw said:

>

> >Why are you all so caught up in the names of

> the

> molds anyway??

> >Who care what their names are? I

> think it is the number of spores in air that

> count. If you have a high number of the SAME

> TYPE of mold, that shows it is growing in the

> house.

> >If you have high number of mold, you have

> a moisture or leak problem that has to be

> cleaned

> up regardless of what the name of mold is.

> > I think you all are silly about this. What

> matters

> to me is QUANTITY only. If it's high, expert

> doctors have told me ANY mold, regardless of

> what

> you call it, can make you sick, any mold if it

> is

> in high quantity. How do you know the

> QUANTITY,

> by mold plates, if done correctly. I'm not

> going

> to pay thousands of dollars for someone to give

> me a count when I can take it myself.

>

> BBW,

>

> It makes a VERY large difference what kinds of

> mold

> are there because some kinds of molds can make

> you

> VERY ill and those kinds of mold are not in

> every mold situation.

>

> In fact, if a mold situation is of short

> duration and is cleaned up quickly,

> the chances I think are very slim that it would

> become toxic.

>

> The worst problems are in buildings that have

> been water damaged repeatedly and

> for long periods of time, then dried out, then

> water damaged again..

> and then NOT CLEANED UP THOROUGHLY, EVER..

>

> Scientists describe certain species of molds as

> toxinogenic, which means

> that they are capable of producing mycotoxins.

> In many cases, they

> represent a sort of

> 'climax ecosystem' in water damaged buildings

> that occurs after many

> other molds have come and gone.. I suspect..

>

> Those seriously toxic molds typically need

> seriously high humidity..

> over a LONG period of time.. That doesn't

> happen in maintained

> buildings..it requires leaks or flooding,

> basically..

>

> And once a building has gotten bad, its not a

> simple matter of

> cleaning up the active mold growth sites to

> make it healthy.. I fact,

> I have heard again and again that there are

> buildings that test

> 'clean' that still have serious mycotoxin

> problems..

>

> Thats a crucial weakness of mold testing, and

> until we realize that

> mold testing needs to be done with toxin

> testing, we won't be doing

> what we NEED to do to KEEP PEOPLE SAFE..

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

you are getting worse in that house. just get out.

bbw <barb1283@...> wrote: Live Simply,

I see. There are different ways to come to same

conlusion. In my case, I test positive to

substantial amount of mycotoxins in my body so I

don't need to find toxic mold in my house.

Important thing is I have it in me. Now I have

to figure out from where. Most important clue

is/was that I noted for last few years that I

felt sicker at home and many times going out

releived my symptoms so there you go. It's in my

urine and in my blood so. For someone needing

someone 'else' to clean it up I see the

importance of more precise testing. For me,

since I have to clean it up and pay for it

myself, how I find where problem is and fix it is

different approach. That is where clash in

methods keeps coming up. I'm aiming to clean up

all 'moldy' areas of house regardless of name of

microbes there. I will retest when those are

clean, if still too moldy, I have to hunt for

area but I'm pretty sure I know where the

problems are. Was just basement until summer hit

and brought down attic air,now I see attic air

shows a problem by MY OWN REACTIONS TO IT, kind

of like using his own body to tell him when

there is a problem. Old symptoms came back and I

started looking for where they would be coming

from. Okay, please realize that people may be

doing things differently due to their

circumstances. I don't need proof to anyone that

house has toxins in it, tests of my body is

proof. For you, that wouldn't be good enough

since you need to show landlord the toxin came

from a mold in his apartment. For me, I don't

need that. It is worse since I have to pay the

price for my health and my house health and it

all just loss, I cannot blame anyone else. So my

situation is different than yours. I'm sticking

with the culture plates, and I do swab test when

I find visible mold (in unusual place, not shower

curtain -although oddly I have never seen mold in

my bathroom or on shower curtain. You would

think moldy place would have that but I have

almost no visible mold anyplace in house since I

cleaned up mold in basement in 2000.

--- LiveSimply <quackadillian@...> wrote:

> bbw said:

>

> >Why are you all so caught up in the names of

> the

> molds anyway??

> >Who care what their names are? I

> think it is the number of spores in air that

> count. If you have a high number of the SAME

> TYPE of mold, that shows it is growing in the

> house.

> >If you have high number of mold, you have

> a moisture or leak problem that has to be

> cleaned

> up regardless of what the name of mold is.

> > I think you all are silly about this. What

> matters

> to me is QUANTITY only. If it's high, expert

> doctors have told me ANY mold, regardless of

> what

> you call it, can make you sick, any mold if it

> is

> in high quantity. How do you know the

> QUANTITY,

> by mold plates, if done correctly. I'm not

> going

> to pay thousands of dollars for someone to give

> me a count when I can take it myself.

>

> BBW,

>

> It makes a VERY large difference what kinds of

> mold

> are there because some kinds of molds can make

> you

> VERY ill and those kinds of mold are not in

> every mold situation.

>

> In fact, if a mold situation is of short

> duration and is cleaned up quickly,

> the chances I think are very slim that it would

> become toxic.

>

> The worst problems are in buildings that have

> been water damaged repeatedly and

> for long periods of time, then dried out, then

> water damaged again..

> and then NOT CLEANED UP THOROUGHLY, EVER..

>

> Scientists describe certain species of molds as

> toxinogenic, which means

> that they are capable of producing mycotoxins.

> In many cases, they

> represent a sort of

> 'climax ecosystem' in water damaged buildings

> that occurs after many

> other molds have come and gone.. I suspect..

>

> Those seriously toxic molds typically need

> seriously high humidity..

> over a LONG period of time.. That doesn't

> happen in maintained

> buildings..it requires leaks or flooding,

> basically..

>

> And once a building has gotten bad, its not a

> simple matter of

> cleaning up the active mold growth sites to

> make it healthy.. I fact,

> I have heard again and again that there are

> buildings that test

> 'clean' that still have serious mycotoxin

> problems..

>

> Thats a crucial weakness of mold testing, and

> until we realize that

> mold testing needs to be done with toxin

> testing, we won't be doing

> what we NEED to do to KEEP PEOPLE SAFE..

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Yes, I'm using my own body reactions also to

detect but testing also. I have not picked up

any toxic mold in plates but I know it's here

from other evidence. All I'm trying to do is get

mold count down. Figuring home with low mold

count is healthy/healthier. Toxins are a

different issue I don't understand well yet.

--- erikmoldwarrior

<erikmoldwarrior@...> wrote:

> Yes! Exactly.

> My major sources of exposure weren't in the

> house at all, sometimes

> coming from such unexpected places as a moldy

> thermal as I was Hang

> Gliding over an area deforested by fire north

> of Mt Hull.

>