Re: Civet - how far would you go?

[Guest guest]

An old Chandler Burr article;'Meow Mix' ... interesting, fact-filled,

and hysterically funny.

http://www.chandler burr.com/ articles/ 21chanel. html

So fellow NP-ers... would you do what the old Graissoise perfumer used

to do?

How far are you / we prepared to go in our evaluation of fragrant

substances?

Margi

That was great. I was full of snickers.  But it's suprising, well, maybe not so

suprising as it is pathetic, that mainstream " perfume " people are so ignorant of

things.  To almost any NPer with a little reading and a bit of experience under

their belt, that stuff is old hat. 

Yeesh, that guy put civit paste in his mouth!?!   Whoah!

  And I also disagree about rose absolute.  I don't think its dank and musty at

all, not whatsoever.  Maybe some other naturals, but not rose!  I totally agree

about the odor of black currant buds though!

[Guest guest]

> How far are you / we prepared to go in our evaluation of fragrant

> substances?

>

> Margi

Uh... NOPE, not to this stuff...

A friend gave me some synth civet, it smells just like Grandma Kiler's

Perfume. Musta been one of these Chanel No 5 or something...

And pop Hyraceum in my mouth, Nope again, Petrified poop in my mouth,

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO !!!!!!!!!!! >>>>>>>>>>>>>>

[Guest guest]

margi.macdonald wrote:

> An old Chandler Burr article;'Meow Mix' ... interesting, fact-filled,

> and hysterically funny.

>

> http://www.chandlerburr.com/articles/21chanel.html

>

> So fellow NP-ers... would you do what the old Graissoise perfumer used

> to do?

>

Of course not. BTW, the more Burr reveals the poor education and

experience of the commercial perfumers, it's more of a time to pat

ourselves on the back for all the self-educating we do!

>

> How far are you / we prepared to go in our evaluation of fragrant

> substances?

>

> Margi

>

That's too much of an open-ended question.

--

Anya's Garden Perfumes

Glorious and Rare Organic White Rose Hydrosol http://anyasagarden.com/store.htm

Online perfume course starts March 6, 2009 http://anyasgarden.com/classes.htm

[Guest guest]

Shea wrote:

> That was great. I was full of snickers. But it's suprising, well, maybe not

so suprising as it is pathetic, that mainstream " perfume " people are so ignorant

of things. To almost any NPer with a little reading and a bit of experience

under their belt, that stuff is old hat.

>

, I basically said the same thing in my post. They're clueless.

Hand them an aromachemical and they rhapsodize, but a natural

ingredient, and by that I mean even jasmine, and they're at a loss.

> And I also disagree about rose absolute. I don't think its dank and musty at

all, not whatsoever. Maybe some other naturals, but not rose! I totally agree

about the odor of black currant buds though!

>

>

A lot of the bad rap about rose comes from Turin and Burr, who are

woefully inadequate in evaluating naturals. They don't even know about

dilution evals.

--

Anya's Garden Perfumes

Glorious and Rare Organic White Rose Hydrosol http://anyasagarden.com/store.htm

Online perfume course starts March 6, 2009 http://anyasgarden.com/classes.htm

[Guest guest]

> That's too much of an open-ended question.

>

Hi Anya

and anyone pondering how to reply to such an open-ender...

am currently in mental-holiday mode with my kids, therefore no

structure... it is making my mind wander to wild and untraversed places

right now, the mischief-loving part of me hopes that the Frenchman

conducting that little session Mr Burr described, was so aghast to be

in a room of 'experts' who knew nothing of civet, that he made up the

tasting-civet-and-then-going-home-to-kiss-the-wife scenario, just to

shake them out of their ignorance.

Still, am wondering how far I'd go... what botanical biomass would I

-tentatively- chomp and taste? MANY

Which eoil, absolutes etc would I be prepared to use undiluted on my

skin? ALL OF THEM

Would I go to a 'civet farm', observe the collection of the civet

cream, and rub a little directly into my skin? SURE THING

Whom else is wondering who and when it was discerned that baby poop is

/ was used as an adulterant in civet?

Which brings us back to something Ambrosia mentioned recently - only

deal with trusted, trustworthy suppliers, and understand and know your

materials intimately.

Over-and-out

Margi

[Guest guest]

<, I basically said the same thing in my post. They're clueless.

Hand them an aromachemical and they rhapsodize, but a natural

ingredient, and by that I mean even jasmine, and they're at a loss.>

You would think, as people into perfume and scent in general, that they would at

least be somewhat familiar with something as basic as jasmine, or if they are

really into scent, investigate a perfume ingredient classic,  albeit a rare one,

like civit, if not to use in their perfumes, at least to just have a

well-rounded education in scent and classic perfume ingredients.   It boggles my

mind.  And these are the movers and shakers of the perfume world?

<A lot of the bad rap about rose comes from Turin and Burr, who are

woefully inadequate in evaluating naturals. They don't even know about

dilution evals.>

Well, when it comes to rose absolute, I like it even straight out of the

bottle!  Of course it tends to " blossom' better when its wafting around in the

air, or worn, but its still nice straight.  Now rose otto is another story.  I

didn't like it straight out of the sample vial I got, but when I dabbed a bit on

paper and let it sit a bit, wow!  In fact I was using rose abs tonight( I just

cant afford the otto right now-boo hoo), Valentines day is coming up and I'm

doing some blends with that in mind.  I think I created a really sexy blend,

that I intended originally for soap, but I think I like it so much, and I think

its a bit too luxurious for that purpose, that I think I will make it into a

perfume.  It didn't have rose in it though.

[Guest guest]

>

<Of course not. BTW, the more Burr reveals the poor education and

experience of the commercial perfumers, it's more of a time to pat

ourselves on the back for all the self-educating we do!>

Amen!!

 

[Guest guest]

> right now, the mischief-loving part of me hopes that the Frenchman

> conducting that little session Mr Burr described, was so aghast to be

> in a room of 'experts' who knew nothing of civet, that he made up the

> tasting-civet-and-then-going-home-to-kiss-the-wife scenario, just to

> shake them out of their ignorance.

The tasting of Civet is true, and baby poop is the major additive to extend the

product, if only by 10%, then greed sets in, and it becomes very discernible.

Remember where the baby 'poop' comes from.

The mother naturally breast feed the child (in that part of the world), and the

'poop' is very sweet from the mother's milk, light in color and lacks the

typical western baby feces odor or gastric irritation that our babies incur,

hence it blend in with the Civet..

BUT, and herein is the 'but', this 'baby poop' has a peculiar taste, acid, but

the Civet is creamy/waxy. BTW, you do not swirl it in you mouth! Just a little

taste with the tip of your tongue, or on the side... then rinse!

Remember that these 'naturals' (baby poop, et al.) are multicomponent mixtures,

hence difficult to analyse on GC/MS. Sure, it could be done, but at what cost,

when the 'human' organoleptic sensors are far superior for a quick analysis.

Remember, the end result is 'odor', the GC/MS does not smell. You could have a

perfect analysis, and the product could still be adulterated or not smell

correctly.

-= CB =-