Re: Mycotoxins in dry conditions

[Guest guest]

Live Simply, I would have to look for lab

records. I don't remember.

However, I had my urine tested by Dr Croft in

August 2004, and I had significant amount of

mycotoxins in urine at that time. I've done a

lot of cleaning since then and trying to detox

myself. Perhaps I should do urine test again.

It has been 2 years to see if it is getting

better or worse.

I'm also considering sending a 'bulk' sample to

Texas Tech to see if it is toxic. I would hate

to throw out everything for nothing. I'd love to

test carpeting in particular.

--- LiveSimply <quackadillian@...> wrote:

> There are aspergillius/penicillium species that

> are as toxic as stachy!

>

> Did you get the mold speciated?

[Guest guest]

I just checked my Home Depot ones and they just say aspergillus, etc.,

but no species. I just sent out the ones to Dallas Envir Center and

they say to give 6-8 weeks due to fact that some molds are slow

growing. I'll see what they send back.

Like I said I wouldn't do anything different anyway. Trying to clean

up my own house best as I can, no law suit possible. I'll reach my

goal if the amount of mold I catch in one culture plate is less than 4

spores in an hour (I've heard that's considered healthy) and I am

feeling well. I doubt there is anyway to control what species of mold

gets into house.

Someone said they put out mold culture plate and nothing grew in it.

He was a remediator, not testor, but he said he figured they didn't

work. I'd like to live in his house! I always have a crop. It has

changed the way I do things, like I never leave food or beverages

uncovered and I don't eat uncovered things when I go out either.

The Dallas plates said only to leave them out 30 minutes. When you

set plates out for just 30 minutes and later see something growing in

all of them, it changes your view of things.

--- In , LiveSimply <quackadillian@...>

wrote:

>

> There are aspergillius/penicillium species that are as toxic as

stachy!

>

> Did you get the mold speciated?

>

[Guest guest]

LiveSimply <quackadillian@...> wrote:

>

> Aspergillus species and toxins are known killers. Various health

> issues for asp. kill more people than any other mold as far as we

> know.

>

> And that is NOT a subject of controversy like the political minefield

> over stachybotrys in the US, its a known, agreed upon fact.

>

Interesting.

When no doctors in Tahoe, Reno, Sacramento, anywhere I could find, or

even the CDC/NIH would help me to figure this mold problem out - I

hired a mycologist to accompany me to various mold colonies so I could

assess my reaction and have the offending one identified. When we got

to a black mold on some joists, I stuck my finger in it, and he

said " I wouldn't do that if I were you! " . And I replied, " This stuff?

This isn't the one that is bothering me or I'd be slammed by now.

Hell, I'll eat this mold on my peanut butter sandwich for lunch. This

isn't the stuff " .

And that one was " Aspergillus Niger " .

Then we moved on to Penicillium, and that didn't do it either.

And finally we hit a mold which, when disturbed, just put me down for

the count. And as I was dropping to the floor, I said " THAT'S THE

ONE " .

Stachy, of course.

Nothing like self testing when doctors refuse to help.

No question about the results.

-

[Guest guest]

, I can understand your being exposed in a home to only T-myco's

even though there may of been other molds too, and I can understand

you have cfs from it.I recall a abstract from the 90's (chronic

fatique syndrome can be identical to T-myco exposure) this was like

my first home but I also had a infections going on, I'm sure you did

too. I'm thinking that it's the point of when our immune system fails

on us from chronic exposure and chronic infection causeing depletion

of our cells and some to become disfunctional as when it really

starts doing some permanent damage. what ever the amounts or amount

of time it takes is besides the point and well be different for

everyone.. I can pretty well pinpoint the event where this happened

to me.(when my imune system started failing on me) when you were

tested for reactions to different molds and/or mycotoxins were you

put in one of those testing chambers where they expose you to tiny

aounts and monitor reactions?

I wrote this the other day, mostly was just trying to put it all

together in my own head. im just trying to understand it all.

, i do understand what your saying about being sensatized to only

one type of t-myco or to just t-myco's if that was what you were

exposed to. and the chronic fatique that goes with that because i

also suffered this in my first home.

I very easily could have the same effects you have with shorter term

exposure in my first home and without exposure to the second home.I

have read that mcs was thought to be caused by exposure to 2 or more

toxins at once, but I go with the TILT theroy of when your body just

gets to the point where it cant take any more toxins.

I did have chronic fatique in my first home that started when the

spinal infection started and it slowly got worse. there are certain

effects that go with T-myco re-exposure,but they dont start untill

you have been re-exposed, to late to run, dont smell a thing.

this is why I have a problem with your statement of being able to

detect T-myco's before it affects you.and I dont see how a experment

in the dessert would work to help you become a myco detector. I take

it that you dont have mcs because you do not react to all types of

toxins but are sensatized to T-myco's.

I'm interested in understanding your exposure because it helps shed

light on my own. we all have a need to understand because of the lack

of knowledge on the subject. its ok to not know all the answers, no

one does, but by shareing views and experiences we learn. and

everyone takes something from that info. and I'm sure there is those

reading these post that are not moldy at all and hopefully they can

learn from us.

some of us are trying to stay up with the newest studys because they

do help us understand our own illness better. believe me, when you

have been exposed to several molds known to produce mycotoxins

instead of just one it complacates things a lot. please refrain from

bragging about your hikeing and mountain climbing to people on this

board that can no longer do these sort of things because they have

asthma, mcs,etc. and are more ill than you. by your own statements,

at the most it sounds like you get fatique with a slam and other

effects but must not suffer from irritants to lungs,sinuses, or

stomach, lucky you. some people have been exposed to the point where

they deal with chronic fatique constantly and a exposure makes them

severly weak for weeks,and non-funtional. plus flare ups of many

other symptoms.

and I think its rather rude to brag about something that others may

never get to do again.

aspergillus,pinicillium and alternaria can all put out aflatoxins and

alternaria can put out orchratoxins, and there is a lot of

information out there on them but its constantly stated that it

effects the immune compromized and makes it sound like it cant affect

you inless you have aids or some other disease.

what they fail to state is that mold and/or myco's can cause

infections and with chronic exposure which leads to infections and

immune disfunction. and mycotoxins can affect even a healthy person.

molds and voc's in general,when your breathing it constantly(meaning

a heavy consentration inside) even without myco's envolved can with

chronic exposure cause infection to the sinuses and lungs and can

lead to immune disfunctions on top of sinus and lung problems. only

during flooding disasters like katrina are there going to be enough

molds and myco's in the outside air for a long enough period of time

to possably cause illness from outside air to healthy people, mold

indoors is much more consentrated and your breathing it more often

and all night while your sleeping. farmers lung is usually from being

in grain bins with moldy corn or barns with moldy hay and stiring it

up and inhaleing it. no different than indoor exposure just to

different amounts and longer exposure periods.

..I am not a doctor and dont know all about the thousands of different

cells in the body, but I dont think, from what i've read that you can

only get ill from mold or mycotoxins if you have certain genes that

are deformed or missing,and I wish this was clarified more in these

studies.yes, certain inherited genes may make people more

seceptable,but I dont think these genes come into play until the

infection and immune disfunctions starts,I'm sure if you have certain

gene's passed down for things like enema, diabeties, etc. mold

exposure well help those along just like people who may be

predisposed to getting allergies, they wont get them until they are

chronicly exposed to the irratant.

but long term exposure in a home can effect people who are healty. it

may just take longer and at the least they well have some decreased

lung function. whats aggervating is that that is all thats really

proven. and allergys if you get them.

I can now relate the burning of my nose to T-myco's along with a

strange taste in my mouth, brushing my teeth several times a day and

haveing to have a drink constantly amoung other things.and with

chronic exposure and the slow process of chronic sinusitis-

rhinositis. it was in a airy type victorian home and my symptoms got

slowly worse as the mold growth and mycotoxins got heavier and

filtrated throughout the home. it was long term exposure to lower

amounts and it took several years to get to high amounts, but all

those years while the roof leaks were getting wet than drying, that

stachy was there, wet or dry and the mycotoxins were still toxic and

everytime the wind blew, I got a extra dose.. what has not been well

studied at all.

my second home is more in line with what many here have experienced.

high amounts to many types of molds/myco's and it didn't take long to

realize that you fell better when getting outside and connect it to

something in the home. there needs to be magor attention payed to

long term exposure with lower amounts, because the symptoms can

slowly sneak up on you and with effects to the brain you might not be

thinking well enough to realize anything. I fell this type of

exposure is very dangerous and if I had not been talked into getting

a smaller home(because I was so ill) and had not got out of this

first home I believe it slowly would have killed me.

everytime I read about certain family members getting sicker than

others, I think about my first home and where now the mold is showing

on the outside fasia's and sofits and going down the walls. because

it was hidden in the walls all those years it was hard to make sence

of different effects between my daughters and myself. but now,

looking at the house from the outside i see where my bedroom was

surround by mold in the walls, daughters were affected differently

depending on where their rooms were(this was before the mold had

filtrated through the whole house)and I thank god they moved out

before it got worse, but they were effected to lessor extents. but

enough that they are haveing some signs of exposure effects. after

they moved out I moved to the first floor where there are 5 sets of

pocket doors in my victorian home.the first exposure. this is where i

started getting much sicker because there was these pocket doors and

they set on open tracts inside the walls allowing the mold spores to

easily enter everytime the wind blew.

another thought I had as to why some in the home may get sicker than

others, mainly the wifes is because they may be home more, may be

doing most of the cleaning, and I found out just how much more of a

consentration of mold spores you can get when you vacum mold infested

carpets in the secound home.

than the other night i watched something on tv that was talking about

how womans sinus openings were larger than mens, so that may also

play a role. theres so many things envolved.. where a home that is

not saturated yet may cause different exposure amounts depending on

where the mold is and which rooms its more consentrated in.

I also believe that mycotoxins are in homes a lot more than people

are giveing credit to. its just hard to detect them because of nature

and so many factors envolved. if you have mcs doesnt that prove

mycotoxin exposure because its caused from a overload of toxins on

the body and if you weren't exposed to any other types of toxins what

else would it be. I do know someone who has it from working with

chemicals all day at work. toxicant induced loss of tolerance,

doesn't that say it all.

one more thing i want to add is that while i dont dought that mold

and mycotoxins may be getting more abundant thanks to chemical

industrys, etc. and the fact that it has many uses has caused the

health effects of it to be played down. but I am seeing that with the

many syptoms and illnesses that it causes that can be , if looked at

seperately, misdiagnosed as another illness because of its 'like'

symptoms and has for years been misdiagnosed as such even when

possable testing for that illness has came back negitive. this is a

big problem. i can go right now to several different types of doctors

and get several misdiagnoses. we despertly need our illness to be

looked at for what it is. a mutiple symptom illness. I've done been

trhough that and despertly would love to see one doctor who will deal

with all the symptoms and illnesses. I dont have the energy, the

money, or the patients to go to 10 more doctors trying to get a

decent evaluation, and most doctors offices make me very ill from the

smells. I've been going through this a long time, and no longer have

extra money for anything. i would love to be envolved in a study in

exchange for a proper diagnoses.

I'm not talking about a clinical trail where i get pumped full of

meds. but I get zapped by myco's every now and than, the damage has

already been done and while each time scares me more than the last

theres no way to tottally avoid exposure so what would be the

difference between getting zapped outside or in a store or someones

home,etc. and getting zapped in a controlled inviroment where it

might help others by documenting it. if rat studys are not going to

be allowed to prove effects in the courts than more studys on humans

need to be done, and maybe sence it shouldn't be done to people that

are not allready ill from it for obivous reasons, those that allready

are ill and suffer from re-exposures anyway should have a study done.

while i dont look forward to these exposures and what they do to me,

I'm thinking in a controled environent , maybe the use of nitric

oxide after testing would help keep symptoms from running their full

course for weeks, or a oxygen therpy chamber treatment after each

myco test. dont know if this would work and it wouldn't be safe or

fun to have to get tested to one, recover and than other one. but if

they could do the math and fiqure out how to deturmine total effect

from documenting effects to tiny aounts it would be great.

>

> ,

>

> Just because you didn't have that most instant of responses doesn't

> mean that it can't be dangerous or even very dangerous.

>

> I think you are putting FAR too much faith in this sixth sense of

> yours. Honestly..

>

> There are kinds of mold exposure that I can sail safely through,

> feeling nothing at all, but then, starting around six hours later, I

> start getting really sick.. for days..

>

> Those are the ones that build up in you... If it wasn't for CSM I

> would be a basket case due to them..

>

> Mold is invisible. There are lots of other bad things associated

with

> moldy places. They can make you very sick later on.. Best to just

> avoid ALL of them unless you know from experience that they are not

> effecting you.. (like beer, cheese.. etc. i.e. the beneficial

> molds...)

>

> At least that is my $0.02. You don't have to listen to me...

>

>

>