Guest guest Posted December 14, 2006 Report Share Posted December 14, 2006 I know Margaret but you don't know what they think until they have written their report. Your only defence is to pay and ignore.ie to pay for nothing . I can't think of a way round it, it just annoys me . Everyone has prejudices and I think people should be labelled with them "Ed Psyche -- pro inclusion" and "SLT - pro special school". In fact, if you try to assess in advance what people might think/say they get all professionally huffy with you. The lea doesn't have this difficulty because it employs these touchy professionals 24/7 and they know to do as they are told. Sorry. Tribunals bring out the beast in me. I get all grumpy. Sally mcollins2001uk wrote: Re: Re: Tribunal Advice Please (Sally's message) <<<Yes, this part about one's witnesses being professional means that they have to be "independent" and you can't check out what they think. So you pay and they take your money and say the opposite of what you want. If you'd known you wouldn't have paid them or taken them on. >>> When you have received their draft report, discuss and check it out with them -ask them what they think is appropriate provision. If you don't feel comfortable with the report, don't use it and the enemy (the LEA) will never know what it said, because it's your report and you paid for it. Certainly don't call a witness you're not sure of. Margaret No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.409 / Virus Database: 268.15.18/586 - Release Date: 13/12/2006 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 14, 2006 Report Share Posted December 14, 2006 Re: Re: Tribunal Advice Please I know Margaret but you don't know what they think until they have written their report. Your only defence is to pay and ignore.ie to pay for nothing . I can't think of a way round it, it just annoys me . Everyone has prejudices and I think people should be labelled with them " Ed Psyche -- pro inclusion " and " SLT - pro special school " . In fact, if you try to assess in advance what people might think/say they get all professionally huffy with you. The lea doesn't have this difficulty because it employs these touchy professionals 24/7 and they know to do as they are told. Sorry. Tribunals bring out the beast in me. I get all grumpy. Sally I suppose we were in the position that I did not know what would be the best thing to do for Henry, so I asked the experts to tell me what they really thought. I could see from the concern on the faces of the three who had never seen him before that they thought the situation was very serious and their reports reflected this. We had already tried all the LEA could offer and it clearly wasn't enough. The Ed Psych's report showed how bad his current school was and indicated he might need termly residential education. The psychiatrist's report was similarly grave and also rediagnosed the autism together with formally diagnosing SLD for the first time. For me the process has been one of exploration. Margaret Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 14, 2006 Report Share Posted December 14, 2006 Re: Re: Tribunal Advice Please I know Margaret but you don't know what they think until they have written their report. Your only defence is to pay and ignore.ie to pay for nothing . I can't think of a way round it, it just annoys me . Everyone has prejudices and I think people should be labelled with them " Ed Psyche -- pro inclusion " and " SLT - pro special school " . In fact, if you try to assess in advance what people might think/say they get all professionally huffy with you. The lea doesn't have this difficulty because it employs these touchy professionals 24/7 and they know to do as they are told. Sorry. Tribunals bring out the beast in me. I get all grumpy. Sally I suppose we were in the position that I did not know what would be the best thing to do for Henry, so I asked the experts to tell me what they really thought. I could see from the concern on the faces of the three who had never seen him before that they thought the situation was very serious and their reports reflected this. We had already tried all the LEA could offer and it clearly wasn't enough. The Ed Psych's report showed how bad his current school was and indicated he might need termly residential education. The psychiatrist's report was similarly grave and also rediagnosed the autism together with formally diagnosing SLD for the first time. For me the process has been one of exploration. Margaret Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 14, 2006 Report Share Posted December 14, 2006 There's a response from the ABA site, I've emailed you off list. Good luck Sx > > Whichever is easiest Steph thanks very much. > Margaret I think I can handle the stress, my worry is that this time it > would be based around not getting a fair trial first time and that no doubt needs > proving as a point of law, which I know nothing about. > The point about witnesses is interesting though because we were told only 2 > witnesses allowed at the actual tribunal itself but were told it was advisable > to get witness reports which we did, again I have to question what then was > the point of the extra expense of these reports if they are secondary to the > people who are actually there, and as Sally said may not even be read. At one > point the LEA said the OT reports were trifling and unimportant when infact > they were pretty much the linchpin on why had made no progress, I had to > argue fiercely that they be considered, unfortunately the OT was not > available on the day of the tribunal and we had to have the Speech therapist instead. > I thought pretty much as you have said that these witnesses were crucial, > but the little they said were as much in favour of 's current school and the > LEA as it was about fighting 's case, I really believe we would have > fared better without them, finding it difficult to get my head round why we > spent a fortune to have someone there speak up for the LEA. > Vicky > xx > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 14, 2006 Report Share Posted December 14, 2006 I assume you would have got the same chair with or without representation so it is possible the outcome would be the same regardless - however you might not have been aware of the point of law that allows you to ask for a new hearing - can you get lawyer to secure the new hearing then do the representation yourself? Or get a cheaper/more junior lawyer on the day for backup but you lead the arguements? Just thinking of ways to get you forward without compromising the case presentation. I am very sorry things have gone this way. Regards > > Whichever is easiest Steph thanks very much. > Margaret I think I can handle the stress, my worry is that this time it > would be based around not getting a fair trial first time and that no doubt needs > proving as a point of law, which I know nothing about. > The point about witnesses is interesting though because we were told only 2 > witnesses allowed at the actual tribunal itself but were told it was advisable > to get witness reports which we did, again I have to question what then was > the point of the extra expense of these reports if they are secondary to the > people who are actually there, and as Sally said may not even be read. At one > point the LEA said the OT reports were trifling and unimportant when infact > they were pretty much the linchpin on why had made no progress, I had to > argue fiercely that they be considered, unfortunately the OT was not > available on the day of the tribunal and we had to have the Speech therapist instead. > I thought pretty much as you have said that these witnesses were crucial, > but the little they said were as much in favour of 's current school and the > LEA as it was about fighting 's case, I really believe we would have > fared better without them, finding it difficult to get my head round why we > spent a fortune to have someone there speak up for the LEA. > Vicky > xx > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 14, 2006 Report Share Posted December 14, 2006 I assume you would have got the same chair with or without representation so it is possible the outcome would be the same regardless - however you might not have been aware of the point of law that allows you to ask for a new hearing - can you get lawyer to secure the new hearing then do the representation yourself? Or get a cheaper/more junior lawyer on the day for backup but you lead the arguements? Just thinking of ways to get you forward without compromising the case presentation. I am very sorry things have gone this way. Regards > > Whichever is easiest Steph thanks very much. > Margaret I think I can handle the stress, my worry is that this time it > would be based around not getting a fair trial first time and that no doubt needs > proving as a point of law, which I know nothing about. > The point about witnesses is interesting though because we were told only 2 > witnesses allowed at the actual tribunal itself but were told it was advisable > to get witness reports which we did, again I have to question what then was > the point of the extra expense of these reports if they are secondary to the > people who are actually there, and as Sally said may not even be read. At one > point the LEA said the OT reports were trifling and unimportant when infact > they were pretty much the linchpin on why had made no progress, I had to > argue fiercely that they be considered, unfortunately the OT was not > available on the day of the tribunal and we had to have the Speech therapist instead. > I thought pretty much as you have said that these witnesses were crucial, > but the little they said were as much in favour of 's current school and the > LEA as it was about fighting 's case, I really believe we would have > fared better without them, finding it difficult to get my head round why we > spent a fortune to have someone there speak up for the LEA. > Vicky > xx > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 14, 2006 Report Share Posted December 14, 2006 I Agree entirely with what Margaret has said. I would add that expert witnesses are paid for by you and should be guided by you as to the strategy which you should discuss with them before they issue the report. A good 'expert witness' will always send you a draft report to comment on and interject into before it is finalised. If they do not they are not worth the money you are paying them. THIS IS THE GAME THAT IS PLAYED. (It also applies to SA2 advice into Statements - it is courtesy for them to agree the contents of a report before issuing). It is not unusual, it is expected and you should establish the ground rules and the basis of the professionals viewpoint before you pay them huge money. Do not be 'humble'? here. Please, you are the expert on your child and you should tell the so called 'professional' what you want the outcome to be and get their support before you pay them!!!!! This is how solicitors work - that is if they are any bloody good, which many are not. If they do not agree with you then get another 'expert'!!!!! I am so stressed at the moment I apologise if I am being too verment. I think we should establish a database of 'parent friendly' 'expert witnesses'. Just my two cents. Celia - whose LEA is trying to stitch me up too but will fail because I am the mother from hell! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 14, 2006 Report Share Posted December 14, 2006 I Agree entirely with what Margaret has said. I would add that expert witnesses are paid for by you and should be guided by you as to the strategy which you should discuss with them before they issue the report. A good 'expert witness' will always send you a draft report to comment on and interject into before it is finalised. If they do not they are not worth the money you are paying them. THIS IS THE GAME THAT IS PLAYED. (It also applies to SA2 advice into Statements - it is courtesy for them to agree the contents of a report before issuing). It is not unusual, it is expected and you should establish the ground rules and the basis of the professionals viewpoint before you pay them huge money. Do not be 'humble'? here. Please, you are the expert on your child and you should tell the so called 'professional' what you want the outcome to be and get their support before you pay them!!!!! This is how solicitors work - that is if they are any bloody good, which many are not. If they do not agree with you then get another 'expert'!!!!! I am so stressed at the moment I apologise if I am being too verment. I think we should establish a database of 'parent friendly' 'expert witnesses'. Just my two cents. Celia - whose LEA is trying to stitch me up too but will fail because I am the mother from hell! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 14, 2006 Report Share Posted December 14, 2006 Part of the problem may be that you were very pushed for time and may not have been able to secure the best Ed Psychs. I know Alan Willis comes highly recommended and I think he is in East Anglia. We used Urani who is actually in Bristol/London. His report was clear and to the point ( I have been told others may write longer ones; he was very good indeed at Tribunal. Margaret > > Yes that's true enough, the problem though was the Ed Psyche was > reccomended, she had to travel up from way down South, stay overnight in a hotel, visit > both schools and us then stay in a hotel again, so we were already committed > to paying her for all of that once she drove up the motorway. > I did express concern before the tribunal but was re-assured it would be > O.K. > Written report was OK not damning or anything but OK, prescence at tribunal > was another matter altogether. > > Database would be a great resource for sure. > Vicky > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 14, 2006 Report Share Posted December 14, 2006 Part of the problem may be that you were very pushed for time and may not have been able to secure the best Ed Psychs. I know Alan Willis comes highly recommended and I think he is in East Anglia. We used Urani who is actually in Bristol/London. His report was clear and to the point ( I have been told others may write longer ones; he was very good indeed at Tribunal. Margaret > > Yes that's true enough, the problem though was the Ed Psyche was > reccomended, she had to travel up from way down South, stay overnight in a hotel, visit > both schools and us then stay in a hotel again, so we were already committed > to paying her for all of that once she drove up the motorway. > I did express concern before the tribunal but was re-assured it would be > O.K. > Written report was OK not damning or anything but OK, prescence at tribunal > was another matter altogether. > > Database would be a great resource for sure. > Vicky > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 15, 2006 Report Share Posted December 15, 2006 Hi, on ABAUK list has represented his son and won and following on became a tribunal representative for other parents. I think professional evidence like SALT and Independent edu psychology reports are important areas to spend your money on, then at tribunal the evidence is there, having legal representation only present it better. My last chair was a QC with MS - lost to him. Nice feeling having one disabled person putting another down. Must have got MS for being really nasty in his job - Disability at a price. Sorry hard choice, Bridget. > > > Date: 2006/12/13 Wed PM 06:20:48 GMT > Autism Treatment > Subject: Tribunal Advice Please > > Just spoke to solicitor, who expects us to have lost the tribunal last > Friday due to biased antiparent Chair. > Now she says we can ask for the decision to be put aside based on legal > technicalities and apparently have a new tribunal with different panel, > then ofcourse there is DDA due in March. > My question if anyone can answer is how important is it to have all > these legal people and experts on this never ending pursuit of justice? > I'm beginning to feel this is a very lucrative business for all > involved with absolutely no guarantees, and all really depends on who > is the " Chair " . > Anyone out there ever successfully represented themselves without all > this cost? > TIA > Vicky > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 15, 2006 Report Share Posted December 15, 2006 Hi, on ABAUK list has represented his son and won and following on became a tribunal representative for other parents. I think professional evidence like SALT and Independent edu psychology reports are important areas to spend your money on, then at tribunal the evidence is there, having legal representation only present it better. My last chair was a QC with MS - lost to him. Nice feeling having one disabled person putting another down. Must have got MS for being really nasty in his job - Disability at a price. Sorry hard choice, Bridget. > > > Date: 2006/12/13 Wed PM 06:20:48 GMT > Autism Treatment > Subject: Tribunal Advice Please > > Just spoke to solicitor, who expects us to have lost the tribunal last > Friday due to biased antiparent Chair. > Now she says we can ask for the decision to be put aside based on legal > technicalities and apparently have a new tribunal with different panel, > then ofcourse there is DDA due in March. > My question if anyone can answer is how important is it to have all > these legal people and experts on this never ending pursuit of justice? > I'm beginning to feel this is a very lucrative business for all > involved with absolutely no guarantees, and all really depends on who > is the " Chair " . > Anyone out there ever successfully represented themselves without all > this cost? > TIA > Vicky > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 15, 2006 Report Share Posted December 15, 2006 Hi, on ABAUK list has represented his son and won and following on became a tribunal representative for other parents. I think professional evidence like SALT and Independent edu psychology reports are important areas to spend your money on, then at tribunal the evidence is there, having legal representation only present it better. My last chair was a QC with MS - lost to him. Nice feeling having one disabled person putting another down. Must have got MS for being really nasty in his job - Disability at a price. Sorry hard choice, Bridget. > > > Date: 2006/12/13 Wed PM 06:20:48 GMT > Autism Treatment > Subject: Tribunal Advice Please > > Just spoke to solicitor, who expects us to have lost the tribunal last > Friday due to biased antiparent Chair. > Now she says we can ask for the decision to be put aside based on legal > technicalities and apparently have a new tribunal with different panel, > then ofcourse there is DDA due in March. > My question if anyone can answer is how important is it to have all > these legal people and experts on this never ending pursuit of justice? > I'm beginning to feel this is a very lucrative business for all > involved with absolutely no guarantees, and all really depends on who > is the " Chair " . > Anyone out there ever successfully represented themselves without all > this cost? > TIA > Vicky > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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