Guest guest Posted December 13, 2006 Report Share Posted December 13, 2006 Just spoke to solicitor, who expects us to have lost the tribunal last Friday due to biased antiparent Chair.Now she says we can ask for the decision to be put aside based on legal technicalities and apparently have a new tribunal with different panel, then ofcourse there is DDA due in March.My question if anyone can answer is how important is it to have all these legal people and experts on this never ending pursuit of justice?I'm beginning to feel this is a very lucrative business for all involved with absolutely no guarantees, and all really depends on who is the "Chair".Anyone out there ever successfully represented themselves without all this cost?TIAVicky Vicky, I'll cross post from another group a post that was posted several weeks ago by someone who advocated for himself, then became an expert and went into business helping others! BEGIN >>>>>>Here's another uplifting story for you .My own son has semantic/pragmatic language difficulties and is on theAutistic spectrum, I've fought 4 Tribunal Appeals for him (all of which wewon) plus a Judicial Review (10,000 sheets of evidence!), where we createdcase precedent & helped hundreds of children. A long story but it's beenworth it. This year he achieved a National Diploma in Multi-media andenough points to enter University - next year. He's a talented artist witha specialism in animation. There's been heartbreaks on the way (singleparent) but we've persevered. We have to try as hard as we can and giveour children, whatever their difficulties, the chance to achieve theirpotential.It is amazing how things develop. My son's difficulties & achievementsbrought a complete change to my life - I now represent parents at Tribunal(350 so far), and have helped thousands of parents over the telephone.Remember, it is said that "every cloud has a silver lining".Go for it!!>>>>>>>>>>END This man's name is (who knows, perhaps he's one of these *professionals* who takes your money but I don't get that impression. He is on the other list (and may be here, who knows) so if you want me to email him offlist for you to see if he might advise you over the phone (for free!!) then I will. I hope this helps, sorry I don't have any particular advice but I do believe if you are shrewd enough, have the mental acuity and stamina to research and become fluent in these matters with lots of time to devote, then you could advocate for your child yourself. All the best, Darla Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 13, 2006 Report Share Posted December 13, 2006 Thanks Darla, I would be very grateful if you could contact him for me. As for whether I could do it myself, well the only use my barrister was at the actual tribunal itself was picking up small points of law, that really had nothing much to do with what we were trying to prove, just things like other solicitor dropping things in without stating where in the case the relelvent papers were, but in truth our case was pretty tight and they had no real impact anyway, not important. The problem I would guess for me would be putting the paperwork together, but then how different would it be to all the original stuff I have now? We did not have a fair hearing so it would be a new panel looking at the same evidence, but at the tribunal I would represent myself, or is this not possible, if not why not? The only people who benefit from putting together an entirely new case are the solicitors. I really do believe no one can advocate for my son like myself, I have no need for analogies of tanks reversing down roads [sigh]. Thanks Vicky Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 13, 2006 Report Share Posted December 13, 2006 Probably better I don't actually name the solicitor lol, but it wasn't the person you mentioned. I would be very pleased if you posted for me as I am not a member there, but would be interested in other peoples experiences. I think it may well be harder to get a special school placement funded than get ABA on the basis I suppose that ABA is cheaper and probably not involving the childs entire school yrs. Thanks Vicky xx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 13, 2006 Report Share Posted December 13, 2006 Just spoke to solicitor, who expects us to have lost the tribunal last Friday due to biased antiparent Chair. Now she says we can ask for the decision to be put aside based on legal technicalities and apparently have a new tribunal with different panel, then ofcourse there is DDA due in March. My question if anyone can answer is how important is it to have all these legal people and experts on this never ending pursuit of justice? I'm beginning to feel this is a very lucrative business for all involved with absolutely no guarantees, and all really depends on who is the " Chair " . Anyone out there ever successfully represented themselves without all this cost? TIA Vicky Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 13, 2006 Report Share Posted December 13, 2006 Who is your solicitor? the only person I have ever heard consistently get results is Elaine Maxwell. That's not to say that no one else does, they absolutely do. Do you trust your solicitor? If so persist with teh same brief, saves time. Have you tried posting on ABA board with this query as lots of parents there have had to go to tribunal. Would you like me to post for you if you're not a regular member? > > Just spoke to solicitor, who expects us to have lost the tribunal last > Friday due to biased antiparent Chair. > Now she says we can ask for the decision to be put aside based on legal > technicalities and apparently have a new tribunal with different panel, > then ofcourse there is DDA due in March. > My question if anyone can answer is how important is it to have all > these legal people and experts on this never ending pursuit of justice? > I'm beginning to feel this is a very lucrative business for all > involved with absolutely no guarantees, and all really depends on who > is the " Chair " . > Anyone out there ever successfully represented themselves without all > this cost? > TIA > Vicky > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 13, 2006 Report Share Posted December 13, 2006 Whichever is easiest Steph thanks very much. Margaret I think I can handle the stress, my worry is that this time it would be based around not getting a fair trial first time and that no doubt needs proving as a point of law, which I know nothing about. The point about witnesses is interesting though because we were told only 2 witnesses allowed at the actual tribunal itself but were told it was advisable to get witness reports which we did, again I have to question what then was the point of the extra expense of these reports if they are secondary to the people who are actually there, and as Sally said may not even be read. At one point the LEA said the OT reports were trifling and unimportant when infact they were pretty much the linchpin on why had made no progress, I had to argue fiercely that they be considered, unfortunately the OT was not available on the day of the tribunal and we had to have the Speech therapist instead. I thought pretty much as you have said that these witnesses were crucial, but the little they said were as much in favour of 's current school and the LEA as it was about fighting 's case, I really believe we would have fared better without them, finding it difficult to get my head round why we spent a fortune to have someone there speak up for the LEA. Vicky xx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 13, 2006 Report Share Posted December 13, 2006 this is very like our case. The barrister made legal points but the educational case for putting my daughter in mainstream was in the evidence which was never discussed. I assumed at the time that the panel would have read it. After their judgement, I assumed that they hadn't. You certainly can represent yourself. At a pre-case meeting I ignored the barrister and attacked the lea myself and made mincemeat out of them. I left the tribunal to him to lead and we lost. xx Sally MaddiganV@... wrote: Thanks Darla, I would be very grateful if you could contact him for me. As for whether I could do it myself, well the only use my barrister was at the actual tribunal itself was picking up small points of law, that really had nothing much to do with what we were trying to prove, just things like other solicitor dropping things in without stating where in the case the relelvent papers were, but in truth our case was pretty tight and they had no real impact anyway, not important. The problem I would guess for me would be putting the paperwork together, but then how different would it be to all the original stuff I have now? We did not have a fair hearing so it would be a new panel looking at the same evidence, but at the tribunal I would represent myself, or is this not possible, if not why not? The only people who benefit from putting together an entirely new case are the solicitors. I really do believe no one can advocate for my son like myself, I have no need for analogies of tanks reversing down roads [sigh]. Thanks Vicky No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.409 / Virus Database: 268.15.18/584 - Release Date: 12/12/2006 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 13, 2006 Report Share Posted December 13, 2006 Hey Vicky, I've sent a message to him - unfortunately I had to send it through the ABA group (but off list) and given him your email address. I guess it can't hurt to speak to him to understand how he went about advocating for his own son. Take care, Darla Thanks Darla, I would be very grateful if you could contact him for me. As for whether I could do it myself, well the only use my barrister was at the actual tribunal itself was picking up small points of law, that really had nothing much to do with what we were trying to prove, just things like other solicitor dropping things in without stating where in the case the relelvent papers were, but in truth our case was pretty tight and they had no real impact anyway, not important. The problem I would guess for me would be putting the paperwork together, but then how different would it be to all the original stuff I have now? We did not have a fair hearing so it would be a new panel looking at the same evidence, but at the tribunal I would represent myself, or is this not possible, if not why not? The only people who benefit from putting together an entirely new case are the solicitors. I really do believe no one can advocate for my son like myself, I have no need for analogies of tanks reversing down roads [sigh]. Thanks Vicky Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 13, 2006 Report Share Posted December 13, 2006 Hey Vicky, I've sent a message to him - unfortunately I had to send it through the ABA group (but off list) and given him your email address. I guess it can't hurt to speak to him to understand how he went about advocating for his own son. Take care, Darla Thanks Darla, I would be very grateful if you could contact him for me. As for whether I could do it myself, well the only use my barrister was at the actual tribunal itself was picking up small points of law, that really had nothing much to do with what we were trying to prove, just things like other solicitor dropping things in without stating where in the case the relelvent papers were, but in truth our case was pretty tight and they had no real impact anyway, not important. The problem I would guess for me would be putting the paperwork together, but then how different would it be to all the original stuff I have now? We did not have a fair hearing so it would be a new panel looking at the same evidence, but at the tribunal I would represent myself, or is this not possible, if not why not? The only people who benefit from putting together an entirely new case are the solicitors. I really do believe no one can advocate for my son like myself, I have no need for analogies of tanks reversing down roads [sigh]. Thanks Vicky Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 14, 2006 Report Share Posted December 14, 2006 Vicky, You will still need to have expert witnesses and they will need paying. I wouldn't not call them if they are needed. As for representation: was this very expensive? I would find out how much they would charge for a second day, because they will already have done the preparation and a second day's fee might be less? I would only represent myself if I was sure I could stand the strain, stay on top of things completely (AND take notes!) and, most important of all, keep total control of my emotions. Tribunals don't like angry emotional outbursts. Don't " spoil the ship for a ha'p'orth of tar " ! There are a couple of charities around that may be able to help with a few hundred pounds if you're lucky. Margaret > > Thanks Darla, I would be very grateful if you could contact him for me. > As for whether I could do it myself, well the only use my barrister was at > the actual tribunal itself was picking up small points of law, that really had > nothing much to do with what we were trying to prove, just things like other > solicitor dropping things in without stating where in the case the relelvent > papers were, but in truth our case was pretty tight and they had no real > impact anyway, not important. > The problem I would guess for me would be putting the paperwork together, > but then how different would it be to all the original stuff I have now? > We did not have a fair hearing so it would be a new panel looking at the > same evidence, but at the tribunal I would represent myself, or is this not > possible, if not why not? The only people who benefit from putting together an > entirely new case are the solicitors. > I really do believe no one can advocate for my son like myself, I have no > need for analogies of tanks reversing down roads [sigh]. > Thanks > Vicky > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 14, 2006 Report Share Posted December 14, 2006 Vicky SOS!SEN think Melinda Nettleton is very good indeed. Margaret > > Probably better I don't actually name the solicitor lol, but it wasn't the > person you mentioned. > I would be very pleased if you posted for me as I am not a member there, but > would be interested in other peoples experiences. > I think it may well be harder to get a special school placement funded than > get ABA on the basis I suppose that ABA is cheaper and probably not involving > the childs entire school yrs. > Thanks > Vicky > xx > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 14, 2006 Report Share Posted December 14, 2006 By the way, Vicky, we are using Anne Lawrence, a junior in Friel's Chambers as our barrister, She is very good and thorough: I have already seen her in action over 2 full days. Margaret Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 14, 2006 Report Share Posted December 14, 2006 I've posted on ABA list which has a fair few parents who've got exactly what they want following tribunal. Of course what they want is 40 hours a week one to one ABA in a home setting, which is not what you want. HOwever, it is about the LEA's responsibility to match the needs of the education to those of the child, whatever those needs are. If I hear back I'll forward them your email address, or shall I post your email address on that site? Steph x > > Just spoke to solicitor, who expects us to have lost the tribunal last > Friday due to biased antiparent Chair. > Now she says we can ask for the decision to be put aside based on legal > technicalities and apparently have a new tribunal with different panel, > then ofcourse there is DDA due in March. > My question if anyone can answer is how important is it to have all > these legal people and experts on this never ending pursuit of justice? > I'm beginning to feel this is a very lucrative business for all > involved with absolutely no guarantees, and all really depends on who > is the " Chair " . > Anyone out there ever successfully represented themselves without all > this cost? > TIA > Vicky > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 14, 2006 Report Share Posted December 14, 2006 Yes, this part about one's witnesses being professional means that they have to be "independent" and you can't check out what they think. So you pay and they take your money and say the opposite of what you want. If you'd known you wouldn't have paid them or taken them on. The lea has it's witnesses well under control -- it pays their salaries. The most an inconvenient lea witness is likely to do to help the other side is be incredibly vague -- which is what the lea ed psyche did for us. So the lea didn't call her and ignored her report. At our tribunal the chair was a lawyer (very even handed) and just said "Yes we know" to all our barrister's (legal only) points. No one ever suggested that they were thinking of sending her to special school and asked for my opinion. The lawyer was a waste of money. I would have done better by myself. But he did handle the paper work. I think it's a lottery. They should just flip a coin. Cheaper. I wouldn't go to appeal. I think you have to have a lawyer there. I read a case once where the mother lost -- was put into this dreadful provision which drove her son to despair, she rang the tribunal to berate them, they told her to reapply as an emergency and overturned their own opinion. xx Sally MaddiganV@... wrote: Whichever is easiest Steph thanks very much. Margaret I think I can handle the stress, my worry is that this time it would be based around not getting a fair trial first time and that no doubt needs proving as a point of law, which I know nothing about. The point about witnesses is interesting though because we were told only 2 witnesses allowed at the actual tribunal itself but were told it was advisable to get witness reports which we did, again I have to question what then was the point of the extra expense of these reports if they are secondary to the people who are actually there, and as Sally said may not even be read. At one point the LEA said the OT reports were trifling and unimportant when infact they were pretty much the linchpin on why had made no progress, I had to argue fiercely that they be considered, unfortunately the OT was not available on the day of the tribunal and we had to have the Speech therapist instead. I thought pretty much as you have said that these witnesses were crucial, but the little they said were as much in favour of 's current school and the LEA as it was about fighting 's case, I really believe we would have fared better without them, finding it difficult to get my head round why we spent a fortune to have someone there speak up for the LEA. Vicky xx No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.409 / Virus Database: 268.15.18/586 - Release Date: 13/12/2006 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 14, 2006 Report Share Posted December 14, 2006 Margaret we had data protection stuff that proved had made no progress whatsoever, his final review at nursery is identical to his last school assessment! They had no proof of progress where we had shed loads of proof showing lack of progress, this is why I'm so mad. His independent OT felt ABA was the way to go, but she spoke very highly of the school we were asking for, everyone agreed he was in a desperate way. He is grade 4 for funding and is one of only 10 in an SLD school to have this much funding, although he sees none of it, and still they tried to argue he wasn't that difficult and even questioned his dx! They put their head in so many nooses but no one seemed willing to open the trap door. It is similar nonsense to the PCT who refused funding based on the fact and I quote here. " has made progress since attending The Harley Street Doctor, but it's not clear that it is because of the Harley Street Doctor". Double talk like this is par for the course with our kids, if someone else were relating these tales I would honestly have trouble believing them. At the end of the day if we are unsuccessful in this, I may be forced in what school he can attend but I decide what school my 17k child will NOT attend. Thanks everyone for all your support through this if not for this group I think I would have sunk to the bottom of a very large glass. Vicky xxxxxxxxxxxxx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 14, 2006 Report Share Posted December 14, 2006 Margaret we had data protection stuff that proved had made no progress whatsoever, his final review at nursery is identical to his last school assessment! They had no proof of progress where we had shed loads of proof showing lack of progress, this is why I'm so mad. His independent OT felt ABA was the way to go, but she spoke very highly of the school we were asking for, everyone agreed he was in a desperate way. He is grade 4 for funding and is one of only 10 in an SLD school to have this much funding, although he sees none of it, and still they tried to argue he wasn't that difficult and even questioned his dx! They put their head in so many nooses but no one seemed willing to open the trap door. It is similar nonsense to the PCT who refused funding based on the fact and I quote here. " has made progress since attending The Harley Street Doctor, but it's not clear that it is because of the Harley Street Doctor". Double talk like this is par for the course with our kids, if someone else were relating these tales I would honestly have trouble believing them. At the end of the day if we are unsuccessful in this, I may be forced in what school he can attend but I decide what school my 17k child will NOT attend. Thanks everyone for all your support through this if not for this group I think I would have sunk to the bottom of a very large glass. Vicky xxxxxxxxxxxxx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 14, 2006 Report Share Posted December 14, 2006 > > Margaret I think I can handle the stress, my worry is that this time it > would be based around not getting a fair trial first time and that no doubt needs > proving as a point of law, which I know nothing about. > The point about witnesses is interesting though because we were told only 2 > witnesses allowed at the actual tribunal itself but were told it was advisable > to get witness reports which we did, again I have to question what then was > the point of the extra expense of these reports if they are secondary to the > people who are actually there, and as Sally said may not even be read. At one > point the LEA said the OT reports were trifling and unimportant when infact > they were pretty much the linchpin on why had made no progress, I had to > argue fiercely that they be considered, unfortunately the OT was not > available on the day of the tribunal and we had to have the Speech therapist instead. > I thought pretty much as you have said that these witnesses were crucial, > but the little they said were as much in favour of 's current school and the > LEA as it was about fighting 's case, I really believe we would have > fared better without them, finding it difficult to get my head round why we > spent a fortune to have someone there speak up for the LEA. > Vicky > xx > Dear Vicky, If a new Tribunal is ordered then it will be as though the first had never happened and the new panel will start from scratch in considering the evidence before them. The panel are supposed to have read ALL the Tribunal bundle beforehand and any late evidence agreed. A (not uncommon) way of proceeding would be for the LEA and the Appellant (you) to submit a draft agreed Statement before the hearing, with all the points of disagreement clearly marked. These would then be considered by the Tribunal, hearing evidence for both sides, relating to Parts 2 and 3. Then part 4 (placement) would be considered.If you and the LEA agreed any changes in the first Tribunal I suggest you get them into the (revised) draft Statement which will go before the second one. It is not enough to show that the LEA school can't meet 's needs; you also have to show that the new one can. Was your Ed Psych good? And did their report recommend a school, and do they agree with your choice of school? As for the OT, can they come for day 2 and do they know about OT at your preferred school and support what is there? If the speech therapist's evidence was equivocal, ob viously you won't call her again. The new Tribunal should know NOTHING about the speech therapist's oral evidence, which could be to your advantage. You also have the chance to look for another school before the new hearing, or think of some alternative arrangement. Margaret Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 14, 2006 Report Share Posted December 14, 2006 > > Margaret I think I can handle the stress, my worry is that this time it > would be based around not getting a fair trial first time and that no doubt needs > proving as a point of law, which I know nothing about. > The point about witnesses is interesting though because we were told only 2 > witnesses allowed at the actual tribunal itself but were told it was advisable > to get witness reports which we did, again I have to question what then was > the point of the extra expense of these reports if they are secondary to the > people who are actually there, and as Sally said may not even be read. At one > point the LEA said the OT reports were trifling and unimportant when infact > they were pretty much the linchpin on why had made no progress, I had to > argue fiercely that they be considered, unfortunately the OT was not > available on the day of the tribunal and we had to have the Speech therapist instead. > I thought pretty much as you have said that these witnesses were crucial, > but the little they said were as much in favour of 's current school and the > LEA as it was about fighting 's case, I really believe we would have > fared better without them, finding it difficult to get my head round why we > spent a fortune to have someone there speak up for the LEA. > Vicky > xx > Dear Vicky, If a new Tribunal is ordered then it will be as though the first had never happened and the new panel will start from scratch in considering the evidence before them. The panel are supposed to have read ALL the Tribunal bundle beforehand and any late evidence agreed. A (not uncommon) way of proceeding would be for the LEA and the Appellant (you) to submit a draft agreed Statement before the hearing, with all the points of disagreement clearly marked. These would then be considered by the Tribunal, hearing evidence for both sides, relating to Parts 2 and 3. Then part 4 (placement) would be considered.If you and the LEA agreed any changes in the first Tribunal I suggest you get them into the (revised) draft Statement which will go before the second one. It is not enough to show that the LEA school can't meet 's needs; you also have to show that the new one can. Was your Ed Psych good? And did their report recommend a school, and do they agree with your choice of school? As for the OT, can they come for day 2 and do they know about OT at your preferred school and support what is there? If the speech therapist's evidence was equivocal, ob viously you won't call her again. The new Tribunal should know NOTHING about the speech therapist's oral evidence, which could be to your advantage. You also have the chance to look for another school before the new hearing, or think of some alternative arrangement. Margaret Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 14, 2006 Report Share Posted December 14, 2006 > > Margaret I think I can handle the stress, my worry is that this time it > would be based around not getting a fair trial first time and that no doubt needs > proving as a point of law, which I know nothing about. > The point about witnesses is interesting though because we were told only 2 > witnesses allowed at the actual tribunal itself but were told it was advisable > to get witness reports which we did, again I have to question what then was > the point of the extra expense of these reports if they are secondary to the > people who are actually there, and as Sally said may not even be read. At one > point the LEA said the OT reports were trifling and unimportant when infact > they were pretty much the linchpin on why had made no progress, I had to > argue fiercely that they be considered, unfortunately the OT was not > available on the day of the tribunal and we had to have the Speech therapist instead. > I thought pretty much as you have said that these witnesses were crucial, > but the little they said were as much in favour of 's current school and the > LEA as it was about fighting 's case, I really believe we would have > fared better without them, finding it difficult to get my head round why we > spent a fortune to have someone there speak up for the LEA. > Vicky > xx > Dear Vicky, If a new Tribunal is ordered then it will be as though the first had never happened and the new panel will start from scratch in considering the evidence before them. The panel are supposed to have read ALL the Tribunal bundle beforehand and any late evidence agreed. A (not uncommon) way of proceeding would be for the LEA and the Appellant (you) to submit a draft agreed Statement before the hearing, with all the points of disagreement clearly marked. These would then be considered by the Tribunal, hearing evidence for both sides, relating to Parts 2 and 3. Then part 4 (placement) would be considered.If you and the LEA agreed any changes in the first Tribunal I suggest you get them into the (revised) draft Statement which will go before the second one. It is not enough to show that the LEA school can't meet 's needs; you also have to show that the new one can. Was your Ed Psych good? And did their report recommend a school, and do they agree with your choice of school? As for the OT, can they come for day 2 and do they know about OT at your preferred school and support what is there? If the speech therapist's evidence was equivocal, ob viously you won't call her again. The new Tribunal should know NOTHING about the speech therapist's oral evidence, which could be to your advantage. You also have the chance to look for another school before the new hearing, or think of some alternative arrangement. Margaret Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 14, 2006 Report Share Posted December 14, 2006 Re: Re: Tribunal Advice Please (Sally's message) <<<Yes, this part about one's witnesses being professional means that they have to be " independent " and you can't check out what they think. So you pay and they take your money and say the opposite of what you want. If you'd known you wouldn't have paid them or taken them on. >>> When you have received their draft report, discuss and check it out with them -ask them what they think is appropriate provision. If you don't feel comfortable with the report, don't use it and the enemy (the LEA) will never know what it said, because it's your report and you paid for it. Certainly don't call a witness you're not sure of. Margaret Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 14, 2006 Report Share Posted December 14, 2006 Re: Re: Tribunal Advice Please (Sally's message) <<<Yes, this part about one's witnesses being professional means that they have to be " independent " and you can't check out what they think. So you pay and they take your money and say the opposite of what you want. If you'd known you wouldn't have paid them or taken them on. >>> When you have received their draft report, discuss and check it out with them -ask them what they think is appropriate provision. If you don't feel comfortable with the report, don't use it and the enemy (the LEA) will never know what it said, because it's your report and you paid for it. Certainly don't call a witness you're not sure of. Margaret Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 14, 2006 Report Share Posted December 14, 2006 You haven't lost yet so let's still hope that you haven't. I thought we had won and felt so devastated when we hadn't. Then I found that there is an odd but very great strength in losing. That is that the lea hasn't won the right to give your child rubbish, it has persuaded the tribunal that its proposed course of action is better than your proposed course. Now it has to demonstrate that it is. We had an immediate reassessment to write the tribunal's judgement into the statement. So I insisted on a proper description of her,. they didn't care. They'd just won hadn't they. Then I described the lea placement and subjected it to candid criticism. I had no committment to it, no reason to keep the staff on board, no responsibility for the decision. It was nine months of freedom to speak my mind without worrying that I would offend anyone, that they might not like me, that they might not be nice to my child and reject her. I knew they were stuck -- they had won. I was finding out the many and varied ways in which their provision was useless. What brought me back from despair was telling myself that although the Tribunal had completely misplaced my child it had not done so willfully. It had not knowingly thrown her in the bin. It had done so because it had been misled. So those who misled it could not complain at a candid statement of the ways in which they had misrepresented their provision. Kept me alive and could have provided a springboard to go back to Tribunal. Now we home educate but in many ways those months of freedom were fun -- telling useless people how they were failing the handicapped people in their care. It was good. Sally rexel45@... wrote: Hey Vicky, I've sent a message to him - unfortunately I had to send it through the ABA group (but off list) and given him your email address. I guess it can't hurt to speak to him to understand how he went about advocating for his own son. Take care, Darla In a message dated 13/12/2006 21:28:17 GMT Standard Time, MaddiganVaol (DOT) com writes: Thanks Darla, I would be very grateful if you could contact him for me. As for whether I could do it myself, well the only use my barrister was at the actual tribunal itself was picking up small points of law, that really had nothing much to do with what we were trying to prove, just things like other solicitor dropping things in without stating where in the case the relelvent papers were, but in truth our case was pretty tight and they had no real impact anyway, not important. The problem I would guess for me would be putting the paperwork together, but then how different would it be to all the original stuff I have now? We did not have a fair hearing so it would be a new panel looking at the same evidence, but at the tribunal I would represent myself, or is this not possible, if not why not? The only people who benefit from putting together an entirely new case are the solicitors. I really do believe no one can advocate for my son like myself, I have no need for analogies of tanks reversing down roads [sigh]. Thanks Vicky No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.409 / Virus Database: 268.15.18/586 - Release Date: 13/12/2006 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 14, 2006 Report Share Posted December 14, 2006 Yes that's true enough, the problem though was the Ed Psyche was reccomended, she had to travel up from way down South, stay overnight in a hotel, visit both schools and us then stay in a hotel again, so we were already committed to paying her for all of that once she drove up the motorway. I did express concern before the tribunal but was re-assured it would be O.K. Written report was OK not damning or anything but OK, prescence at tribunal was another matter altogether. Database would be a great resource for sure. Vicky Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 14, 2006 Report Share Posted December 14, 2006 Yes that's true enough, the problem though was the Ed Psyche was reccomended, she had to travel up from way down South, stay overnight in a hotel, visit both schools and us then stay in a hotel again, so we were already committed to paying her for all of that once she drove up the motorway. I did express concern before the tribunal but was re-assured it would be O.K. Written report was OK not damning or anything but OK, prescence at tribunal was another matter altogether. Database would be a great resource for sure. Vicky Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 14, 2006 Report Share Posted December 14, 2006 I know Margaret but you don't know what they think until they have written their report. Your only defence is to pay and ignore.ie to pay for nothing . I can't think of a way round it, it just annoys me . Everyone has prejudices and I think people should be labelled with them "Ed Psyche -- pro inclusion" and "SLT - pro special school". In fact, if you try to assess in advance what people might think/say they get all professionally huffy with you. The lea doesn't have this difficulty because it employs these touchy professionals 24/7 and they know to do as they are told. Sorry. Tribunals bring out the beast in me. I get all grumpy. Sally mcollins2001uk wrote: Re: Re: Tribunal Advice Please (Sally's message) <<<Yes, this part about one's witnesses being professional means that they have to be "independent" and you can't check out what they think. So you pay and they take your money and say the opposite of what you want. If you'd known you wouldn't have paid them or taken them on. >>> When you have received their draft report, discuss and check it out with them -ask them what they think is appropriate provision. If you don't feel comfortable with the report, don't use it and the enemy (the LEA) will never know what it said, because it's your report and you paid for it. Certainly don't call a witness you're not sure of. Margaret No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.409 / Virus Database: 268.15.18/586 - Release Date: 13/12/2006 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.