Lab results

[Guest guest]

Then you need to go back to school, sue because you are missing the picture.

The point here is that all labs values matter and if you don't realize that

you are living in a fantasy world.

There are entire lectures at medical conferences that just talk about the

importance of lowering lipid levels to prevent strokes and MI's and what to

do if the patient is resistant. I wonder why they would waste everyone's

time if they did not think it was important? Care to answer that?

You are the one who is practicing medicine without a lisence and could be

sued for that. Think about that. You have no credentials to back you up. I

do.

Every person is different, some people have naturally high levels- it

their genetics, maybe you are one of them, but that still doesn't mean that

you should not work to lower it through natural medicine. I don't prescribe

choler sterol lowering agents personally i try the natural approach fist,

but there are some providers like cardiologists for eample who love to

perscribe statins. what does your cardiologist perscribe?? huh? i bet he

writes for statins.

-- Re: Re: Lab Results

Sorry Nancie but the picture is MUCH bigger.

I have been researching heart disease since the early 70s.

I have high cholesterol and am in a LOWER THAN AVERAGE RISK for heart

disease.

I have low CRP and homocystiene, I work out and I eat healthy.

I work on my stress levels.

Giving people a pill to lower cholesterol is a false security blanket that

actually does more harm than good when not used with a full heart health

program.

Telling someone you don't know, interpreting their labs and informing them

they are high risk for a heart attack is just nonsense.

And I won't argue this with you. Some just reject logic and I accept that.

Be at peace with your experience.

Sue

On 12/29/08 2:07 PM, " Nancie Barnett " <deifspirit@...> wrote:

> Sue-

>

> I am correct and I stand by my statements. Elevated lipid levels

contribute

> significantly to heart disease and stroke. They cause atherscelorosis

which

> causes over time a chronic inflammatory response in the arterial walls

> leading to plaque formation and the aggregation/clumping of platelets in

> your blood. This can lead to a blockage in the coronary arteries and

> cerebral arteries that triggers the release of homosistein and CK and

> prostaglandins and other neuro endocrine chemicals that maintain and

sustain

> the chronic inflammatory response. This chronic inflammatory response that

> is going on in the walls of both the coronary and cerebral arterial walls

> can lead to a complete blockage of blood flow or a clot breaking off and

> traveling elsewhere to cause a stoppage that can lead to a MI or a stroke.

>

> Go ask your cardiologist. I am sure he put in simple terms for you since

you

> are not a medical professional. Ask him why he has his patients on lipitor

> and other cholesterol lowering agents. Why do you think that is? These

> agents lower the lipid levels so they take a significant risk factor out

of

> the equation. Ask him why he thinks exercise is so important. Why it helps

> raise the HDL levels that can help lower the risk ratio of HDL?LDL that

[Guest guest]

Then you need to go back to school, sue because you are missing the picture.

Of course the picture is bigger. i never stated it wasn't!!!!! i stated that

her lab values COULD indicate she is at risk for a stroke or MI. that is a

fact.

it is much healthier for her to have lower lipid levels. why do you think

the normal values were lowered?? because it all adds up. the entire scenario

can lead to hypertension; fatty liver; metabolic syndrome . it is a domino

affect.

The point here is that all labs values matter and if you don't realize that

you are living in a fantasy world.

There are entire lectures at medical conferences that just talk about the

importance of lowering lipid levels to prevent strokes and MI's and what to

do if the patient is resistant. I wonder why they would waste everyone's

time if they did not think it was important? Care to answer that?

You are the one who is practicing medicine without a lisence and could be

sued for that. Think about that. You have no credentials to back you up. I

do.

Every person is different, some people have naturally high levels- it

their genetics, maybe you are one of them, but that still doesn't mean that

you should not work to lower it through natural medicine. I don't prescribe

cholesterol lowering agents personally i try the natural approach fist, but

there are some providers like cardiologists for eample who love to perscribe

statins. what does your cardiologist perscribe?? huh? i bet he writes for

statins.

-- Re: Re: Lab Results

Sorry Nancie but the picture is MUCH bigger.

I have been researching heart disease since the early 70s.

I have high cholesterol and am in a LOWER THAN AVERAGE RISK for heart

disease.

I have low CRP and homocystiene, I work out and I eat healthy.

I work on my stress levels.

Giving people a pill to lower cholesterol is a false security blanket that

actually does more harm than good when not used with a full heart health

program.

Telling someone you don't know, interpreting their labs and informing them

they are high risk for a heart attack is just nonsense.

And I won't argue this with you. Some just reject logic and I accept that.

Be at peace with your experience.

Sue

On 12/29/08 2:07 PM, " Nancie Barnett " <deifspirit@...> wrote:

> Sue-

>

> I am correct and I stand by my statements. Elevated lipid levels

contribute

> significantly to heart disease and stroke. They cause atherscelorosis

which

> causes over time a chronic inflammatory response in the arterial walls

> leading to plaque formation and the aggregation/clumping of platelets in

> your blood. This can lead to a blockage in the coronary arteries and

> cerebral arteries that triggers the release of homosistein and CK and

> prostaglandins and other neuro endocrine chemicals that maintain and

sustain

> the chronic inflammatory response. This chronic inflammatory response that

> is going on in the walls of both the coronary and cerebral arterial walls

> can lead to a complete blockage of blood flow or a clot breaking off and

> traveling elsewhere to cause a stoppage that can lead to a MI or a stroke.

>

> Go ask your cardiologist. I am sure he put in simple terms for you since

you

> are not a medical professional. Ask him why he has his patients on lipitor

> and other cholesterol lowering agents. Why do you think that is? These

> agents lower the lipid levels so they take a significant risk factor out

of

> the equation. Ask him why he thinks exercise is so important. Why it helps

> raise the HDL levels that can help lower the risk ratio of HDL?LDL that

[Guest guest]

Then you need to go back to school, sue because you are missing the picture.

Of course the picture is bigger. I never stated it wasn't!!!!! I stated that

her lab values COULD indicate she is at risk for a stroke or MI. That is a

fact.

It is much healthier for her to have lower lipid levels. Why do you think

the normal values were lowered?? Because it all adds up. The entire scenario

can lead to hypertension; fatty liver; metabolic syndrome . It is a domino

affect.

The point here is that all labs values matter and if you don't realize that

you are living in a fantasy world.

There are entire lectures at medical conferences that just talk about the

importance of lowering lipid levels to prevent strokes and MI's and what to

do if the patient is resistant. I wonder why they would waste everyone's

time if they did not think it was important? Care to answer that?

You are the one who is practicing medicine without a license and could be

sued for that. Think about that. You have no credentials to back you up. I

do.

Every person is different, some people have naturally high levels- it

their genetics, maybe you are one of them, but that still doesn't mean that

you should not work to lower it through natural medicine. I don't prescribe

cholesterol lowering agents personally I try the natural approach fist, but

there are some providers like cardiologists for example who love to

prescribe statins. What does your cardiologist prescribe?? Huh? I bet he

writes for statins.

-- Re: Re: Lab Results

Sorry Nancie but the picture is MUCH bigger.

I have been researching heart disease since the early 70s.

I have high cholesterol and am in a LOWER THAN AVERAGE RISK for heart

disease.

I have low CRP and homocystiene, I work out and I eat healthy.

I work on my stress levels.

Giving people a pill to lower cholesterol is a false security blanket that

actually does more harm than good when not used with a full heart health

program.

Telling someone you don't know, interpreting their labs and informing them

they are high risk for a heart attack is just nonsense.

And I won't argue this with you. Some just reject logic and I accept that.

Be at peace with your experience.

Sue

On 12/29/08 2:07 PM, " Nancie Barnett " <deifspirit@...> wrote:

> Sue-

>

> I am correct and I stand by my statements. Elevated lipid levels

contribute

> significantly to heart disease and stroke. They cause atherscelorosis

which

> causes over time a chronic inflammatory response in the arterial walls

> leading to plaque formation and the aggregation/clumping of platelets in

> your blood. This can lead to a blockage in the coronary arteries and

> cerebral arteries that triggers the release of homosistein and CK and

> prostaglandins and other neuro endocrine chemicals that maintain and

sustain

> the chronic inflammatory response. This chronic inflammatory response that

> is going on in the walls of both the coronary and cerebral arterial walls

> can lead to a complete blockage of blood flow or a clot breaking off and

> traveling elsewhere to cause a stoppage that can lead to a MI or a stroke.

>

> Go ask your cardiologist. I am sure he put in simple terms for you since

you

> are not a medical professional. Ask him why he has his patients on lipitor

> and other cholesterol lowering agents. Why do you think that is? These

> agents lower the lipid levels so they take a significant risk factor out

of

> the equation. Ask him why he thinks exercise is so important. Why it helps

> raise the HDL levels that can help lower the risk ratio of HDL?LDL that

[Guest guest]

On the internet, everyone can be whom ever they wish to be. One can

take on many avatars as they see fit expressing parts of their

personality they wish to display. Someone can clam as loud and with as

much religious fervor as they want that they have certain " experience "

and certain " qualifications " but that doesn't make it so and most

certainly that doesn't make them right. What is is more likely to do is

make them less open to the actual truth, whatever that may be, since

education today often " blinds " one to limited and narrow views.

Education doesn't teach people to think, question, explore, expand, and

certainly it doesn't teach one to step outside of the " crowd " mentality

of their particular area of education.

Nancie's claim to her " authority " doesn't either make her more accurate

nor does it entitle her messages to have more weight than anyone else's.

Certainly her understanding of cholesterol and heart disease is way

off in the weeds and designed to promote the profits of drug makers and

cardiovascular related profits at the health expense of the people it

purports to help.

JustYourType.biz wrote:

> That's truly funny.

>

> You are not qualified to practice medicine over the internet to people who

> are not your patients.

>

> Thank God doctors and other organizations are aware of people who are doing

> this and are starting to do something about it.

>

> There's a record of all of this and I have been informed by more than one

> source that there are plans to take action against those practicing medicine

> illegally.

Well, yes, the doctor " cartels " would like that. It keeps the price of

medical care highly elevated, poorly delivered, and at a low quality.

(I think open medical practice - as in anyone - and private

certifications - as in any company can certify skill sets but merit goes

to those that develop public " trust " over time - is the best way to

create high quality accurate well delivered medical care. Government

sponsored " monopolies " asserted with regulation never has the incentive

to do the job efficiently and effectively. But, this is another

discussion.)

> So you carry on but don't push your generalities on me.

>

> I happen to have doctors I do like and trust -- it took me 20 years to find

> them and a lot of research, time and money but it was worth it.

>

> Sue

>

> On 12/29/08 2:40 PM, " Nancie Barnett " <deifspirit@...> wrote:

>

>> sue-

>>

>> I am a NP . you are not. I have the qualifications , you do not. end of

>> story.

Meaningless. " Trust " in information delivery is " earned " , not claimed.

--

Steve - dudescholar4@...

Take World's Smallest Political Quiz at

http://www.theadvocates.org/quiz.html

" If a thousand old beliefs were ruined on our march

to truth we must still march on. " --Stopford

[Guest guest]

,

 

   Can you please tell me what the effect of Seroquel has on the Thyroid.  I was

prescribed it for insomnia because I was sleep-eating on Ambien. I was under

major stress for an extended period of time and it became a chronic

condition.   I read that elevated TSH leves are a rare side effect of the

medication.  I'm not taking it for any type of psychosis it is just because I

have terrible insomia. I have gained a significant amount of weight since

taking Seroquel which I've read is fairly common.   I've tried other

sedatives/hypnotics but they are just not as effective. Do you happen to know if

people loose weight when they discontinue the medication?

 

 Thanks,

Alisa

> Sue-

>

> I am correct and I stand by my statements. Elevated lipid levels

contribute

> significantly to heart disease and stroke. They cause atherscelorosis

which

> causes over time a chronic inflammatory response in the arterial walls

> leading to plaque formation and the aggregation/ clumping of platelets in

> your blood. This can lead to a blockage in the coronary arteries and

> cerebral arteries that triggers the release of homosistein and CK and

> prostaglandins and other neuro endocrine chemicals that maintain and

sustain

> the chronic inflammatory response. This chronic inflammatory response that

> is going on in the walls of both the coronary and cerebral arterial walls

> can lead to a complete blockage of blood flow or a clot breaking off and

> traveling elsewhere to cause a stoppage that can lead to a MI or a stroke.

>

> Go ask your cardiologist. I am sure he put in simple terms for you since

you

> are not a medical professional. Ask him why he has his patients on lipitor

> and other cholesterol lowering agents. Why do you think that is? These

> agents lower the lipid levels so they take a significant risk factor out

of

> the equation. Ask him why he thinks exercise is so important. Why it helps

> raise the HDL levels that can help lower the risk ratio of HDL?LDL that

[Guest guest]

Alisa-

Your lipids are still elevated. Because of that they are a concern. What

does your primary have to say?

Since the weight gain from the Seroquel is a concern, have they placed you

on a low fat diet? How about exercise?

If you carry most of your weight in the tummy area, that puts you at higher

risk for heart disease related problems. The tummy fat also happens to be

the hardest area to lose, unfortunately. Which is why you need to focus on

healing your thyroid. Your thyroid regulates your metabolism.

I have to say that if you can get your hypothyroidism under control, the

lipid levels may decrease and you will lose weight, which includes fat. I

know that after I started armour , my levels did drop very low. I was at

near normal levels to start with. So, that was nice.

But, you should try and eat some oatmeal or other oat related grain filled

food. Oats help lower the lipid levels. Also, increasing your water intake

will help. I would suggest going to see a nutritionist and/or a natural

medicine provider to help you with lowering your lipid lab results. Since

you have a family history that is positive for heart disease that is a

concern.

Nancie



Nancie E. Barnett, RN, MSN, FNP, NPNP

-- Re: Lab Results

Hello Everyone,

I

Please stop fighting. I did have a second set of labs completed and I

did fast. My Triglycerides were 254, Cholesterol was 266, HDL-cholesterol

was 48 and LDL cholesterol was 167. My CDC/HDLC ration was 5.5

For the record, I do have a family history of heart disease and my father

had a triple by-pass and my 39 year-old brother passed away for a pulmonary

thrombosis exacerabeted by atherosclerosis. I know I have to be careful., I

am 40. I think part of the problem is that my doctor prescribed 200 mg of

Seroquel (a neuroleptic) for insomnia and I gained 85 pounds in 2 years. I

tried to stop taking it but I couldn't sleep and thus I was unable to

function.

For this lab, my total iron was within normal range (42), but my iron

binding capacity was 467 and % saturation was 9. I'm not exactly sure what

this may indicate. This time my TSH was 13,47 and my T-3 uptake was

26(normal) and T-4, free was 1.1 (also normal). I'm now wondering if this

could actually be a pituitary problem. Why would the T-3 and T-4 labs be in

the normal range and TSH still be high? Although, this is better then the

60.67 it was previously.

Can anyone tell me if there are any lab tests that could reveal an abnormal

pituitary gland?

Thanks for the advice.

Best,

Alisa

>

>

>

> Alisa-

> Were your labs fasting labs? That is did you not eat prior to having the

> labs drawn?

> Because , if they were fasting labs, there are several problem areas/ or

red

> flags here.

> Your lipids, the triglycerides, cholesterol, HGL and the ratio all

indicate

> that you are at high risk for having a heart attack or stroke.

> The glucose is also a concern and indicates that you need to be screened

for

> diabetes. As well does your Hemaglobin A1C.

> It also looks like your body is binding your iron up which makes it

> unavailable for use so you become anemic. Which is conformed with your CBC

> results. You are anemic.

> Your thyroid labs show that you are hypothyroidism. You need to get some

> more labs. You need a thyroid antibody test, a reverse T3 test and a free

T3

> test.

> What thyroid med are you on?

> Nancie

> Family nurse practitioner.

>

[Guest guest]

JustYourType.biz wrote:

> She¹s not your patient and you are not a doctor.

> End of story.

I disagree with any recommendation that someone should be silent.

However, let the user of " information " be aware.

> On 12/29/08 2:54 PM, " Nancie Barnett " <deifspirit@...> wrote:

>

>>

>>

>>

>> plus, i was not diagnosing her. i told her she could be at high risk for

>> having these problems. It is a fact that elevated lipid levels contribute

>> SIGNIFICANTLY to an INCREASED risk of a MI or stroke.

Define " significantly " .

Stain drug use has increased dramatically but mortality in said patients

has not been affected, but their wallet has. Does that clue you in?

Bypass surgery doesn't increase long term survival but it does decrease

brain function (pump head), does that clue you in?

>> Those are facts that

>> you can't erase away. Patients who come in to see me with those numbers are

>> placed on a low fat diet for we work on diet and exercise programs.

Low fat diets do not decrease mortality and in one third of people in

increased mortality by decreasing LDL particle size. Does that clue you

in? Low fat diets are a farce, a fraud, and leading cause of the

obesity epidemic.

Recommend book " Good Calories, Bad Calories " by Taubs.

Or see the article in the New York Times that started a " buss " some time

ago that led to the writing of above mentioned book:

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9F04E2D61F3EF934A35754C0A9649C8B6\

3 & sec=health

What if It's All Been a Big Fat Lie?

Here's the first paragraph:

" If the members of the American medical establishment were to have a

collective find-yourself-standing-naked-in-Times-Square-type nightmare,

this might be it. They spend 30 years ridiculing Atkins, author

of the phenomenally-best-selling ''Dr. Atkins' Diet Revolution'' and

''Dr. Atkins' New Diet Revolution,'' accusing the Manhattan doctor of

quackery and fraud, only to discover that the unrepentant Atkins was

right all along. Or maybe it's this: they find that their very own

dietary recommendations -- eat less fat and more carbohydrates -- are

the cause of the rampaging epidemic of obesity in America. Or, just

possibly this: they find out both of the above are true. "

I say with absolutely no reticence that recommending a low fat diet

kills people. Anyone who truly researches this issue and has a modicum

of morality and ethics stops recommending low fat diets, and repents.

>>

>> I send

>> them to a nutritionist and I test them for thyroid problems and I run a

>> cardiac lab profile. I may send them for exercise stress testing. They are

>> told to start eating oatmeal and more oats in their diet.

More carbs, fatting, fatting, fatting.

>> They are placed on

>> omega 3 fish oils.

Some good advice.

>> They are sent to a natural medicine provider.

What the heck is that? GNC, the grocery store, hunting, gathering?

>>

>> We monitor

>> their labs at every 6 week intervals.

Expensive AND most insurances won't pay for constant testing for many

things.

>> We take those numbers seriously.

Labs are a statical issue with highs and lows often places two standard

deviations plus and minus from the mean so as to include 95% of the

population. Very poor labs results will not be treated until they

become bad labs by stepping over the arbitrary goal posts. These end

points are sometimes adjusted to maximize drug profits, like cholesterol

ranges.

>> This list is about giving advice and for helping people with issues that

>> they may not be getting help elsewhere. If someone posts results like that I

>> am not going to sit back and say nothing. To say nothing is to potentially

>> cause her harm. Maybe you can do that, but I can't.

>> Nancie

Speak up, always. But be aware, what you think is the " truth " may be

part of the big fat " lie " .

--

Steve - dudescholar4@...

Take World's Smallest Political Quiz at

http://www.theadvocates.org/quiz.html

" If a thousand old beliefs were ruined on our march

to truth we must still march on. " --Stopford

[Guest guest]

steve-

WTH?

my experience is standard for both western AND Natural medicine!!!!

i do NOT advocate any statins and i never did write that i did. I wrote that

i would try natural medicne. I think trying a nutritionist and a natural

medicine provider does NOT advocate theu use of western meds such as statins

it speaks to the opposite. is omega-3 fish oils a statin?? or is it a

natural medicine?

Garlic is also used to lower BP. is that western? what about Iodine? is that

western or natural? she can also try Iodine to see if it works for her. I

can't take it. but, maybe she is not allergic and thus it may help her with

her thyroid issues, which will help with her lipid levels.

I wrote that i think her boss probably uses statins and since sue thinks

he/she is some kind of " god " , then maybe she should think about that.

I would like you to explain what about my description of the

pathophyslogical process of heart disease and athersclerosis do you object

to? what are your credentials?

-- Re: Lab Results

On the internet, everyone can be whom ever they wish to be. One can

take on many avatars as they see fit expressing parts of their

personality they wish to display. Someone can clam as loud and with as

much religious fervor as they want that they have certain " experience "

and certain " qualifications " but that doesn't make it so and most

certainly that doesn't make them right. What is is more likely to do is

make them less open to the actual truth, whatever that may be, since

education today often " blinds " one to limited and narrow views.

Education doesn't teach people to think, question, explore, expand, and

certainly it doesn't teach one to step outside of the " crowd " mentality

of their particular area of education.

Nancie's claim to her " authority " doesn't either make her more accurate

nor does it entitle her messages to have more weight than anyone else's.

Certainly her understanding of cholesterol and heart disease is way

off in the weeds and designed to promote the profits of drug makers and

cardiovascular related profits at the health expense of the people it

purports to help.

JustYourType.biz wrote:

> That's truly funny.

>

> You are not qualified to practice medicine over the internet to people who

> are not your patients.

>

> Thank God doctors and other organizations are aware of people who are

doing

> this and are starting to do something about it.

>

> There's a record of all of this and I have been informed by more than one

> source that there are plans to take action against those practicing

medicine

> illegally.

Well, yes, the doctor " cartels " would like that. It keeps the price of

medical care highly elevated, poorly delivered, and at a low quality.

(I think open medical practice - as in anyone - and private

certifications - as in any company can certify skill sets but merit goes

to those that develop public " trust " over time - is the best way to

create high quality accurate well delivered medical care. Government

sponsored " monopolies " asserted with regulation never has the incentive

to do the job efficiently and effectively. But, this is another

discussion.)

> So you carry on but don't push your generalities on me.

>

> I happen to have doctors I do like and trust -- it took me 20 years to

find

> them and a lot of research, time and money but it was worth it.

>

> Sue

>

> On 12/29/08 2:40 PM, " Nancie Barnett " <deifspirit@...>

wrote:

>

>> sue-

>>

>> I am a NP . you are not. I have the qualifications , you do not. end of

>> story.

Meaningless. " Trust " in information delivery is " earned " , not claimed.

--

Steve - dudescholar4@...

Take World's Smallest Political Quiz at

http://www.theadvocates.org/quiz.html

" If a thousand old beliefs were ruined on our march

to truth we must still march on. " --Stopford

[Guest guest]

Nancie Barnett wrote:

> I am a NP, which is the same level as a physician.

Try opening your own practice.

> I can do the same things

> as a MD. I practice autonomously from a MD. End of story.

--

Steve - dudescholar4@...

Take World's Smallest Political Quiz at

http://www.theadvocates.org/quiz.html

" If a thousand old beliefs were ruined on our march

to truth we must still march on. " --Stopford

[Guest guest]

the user won't have any problems with my advice. my advice won't kill her.

but silence will.

-- Re: Lab Results

JustYourType.biz wrote:

> She¹s not your patient and you are not a doctor.

> End of story.

I disagree with any recommendation that someone should be silent.

However, let the user of " information " be aware.

> On 12/29/08 2:54 PM, " Nancie Barnett " <deifspirit@...>

wrote:

>

>>

>>

>>

>> plus, i was not diagnosing her. i told her she could be at high risk for

>> having these problems. It is a fact that elevated lipid levels contribute

>> SIGNIFICANTLY to an INCREASED risk of a MI or stroke.

Define " significantly " .

Stain drug use has increased dramatically but mortality in said patients

has not been affected, but their wallet has. Does that clue you in?

Bypass surgery doesn't increase long term survival but it does decrease

brain function (pump head), does that clue you in?

>> Those are facts that

>> you can't erase away. Patients who come in to see me with those numbers

are

>> placed on a low fat diet for we work on diet and exercise programs.

Low fat diets do not decrease mortality and in one third of people in

increased mortality by decreasing LDL particle size. Does that clue you

in? Low fat diets are a farce, a fraud, and leading cause of the

obesity epidemic.

Recommend book " Good Calories, Bad Calories " by Taubs.

Or see the article in the New York Times that started a " buss " some time

ago that led to the writing of above mentioned book:

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage

html?res=9F04E2D61F3EF934A35754C0A9649C8B63 & sec=health

What if It's All Been a Big Fat Lie?

Here's the first paragraph:

" If the members of the American medical establishment were to have a

collective find-yourself-standing-naked-in-Times-Square-type nightmare,

this might be it. They spend 30 years ridiculing Atkins, author

of the phenomenally-best-selling ''Dr. Atkins' Diet Revolution'' and

''Dr. Atkins' New Diet Revolution,'' accusing the Manhattan doctor of

quackery and fraud, only to discover that the unrepentant Atkins was

right all along. Or maybe it's this: they find that their very own

dietary recommendations -- eat less fat and more carbohydrates -- are

the cause of the rampaging epidemic of obesity in America. Or, just

possibly this: they find out both of the above are true. "

I say with absolutely no reticence that recommending a low fat diet

kills people. Anyone who truly researches this issue and has a modicum

of morality and ethics stops recommending low fat diets, and repents.

>>

>> I send

>> them to a nutritionist and I test them for thyroid problems and I run a

>> cardiac lab profile. I may send them for exercise stress testing. They

are

>> told to start eating oatmeal and more oats in their diet.

More carbs, fatting, fatting, fatting.

>> They are placed on

>> omega 3 fish oils.

Some good advice.

>> They are sent to a natural medicine provider.

What the heck is that? GNC, the grocery store, hunting, gathering?

>>

>> We monitor

>> their labs at every 6 week intervals.

Expensive AND most insurances won't pay for constant testing for many

things.

>> We take those numbers seriously.

Labs are a statical issue with highs and lows often places two standard

deviations plus and minus from the mean so as to include 95% of the

population. Very poor labs results will not be treated until they

become bad labs by stepping over the arbitrary goal posts. These end

points are sometimes adjusted to maximize drug profits, like cholesterol

ranges.

>> This list is about giving advice and for helping people with issues that

>> they may not be getting help elsewhere. If someone posts results like

that I

>> am not going to sit back and say nothing. To say nothing is to

potentially

>> cause her harm. Maybe you can do that, but I can't.

>> Nancie

Speak up, always. But be aware, what you think is the " truth " may be

part of the big fat " lie " .

--

Steve - dudescholar4@...

Take World's Smallest Political Quiz at

http://www.theadvocates.org/quiz.html

" If a thousand old beliefs were ruined on our march

to truth we must still march on. " --Stopford

[Guest guest]

the user won't have any problems with my advice. my advice won't kill her.

but silence will.

-------Original Message-------

>

>>

--

..

[Guest guest]

Nancie Barnett wrote:

> Alisa-

>

> Your lipids are still elevated. Because of that they are a concern. What

> does your primary have to say?

Her trigs are a much better and effective predictor of possible future

cardiovascular events. That should be addressed first. Having a total

cholesterol of 266 results in a very small increased chance of heart

diseases but is highly protective against getting cancer. In other

words, she will live longer, statistically speaking, with a total

cholesterol of 266 than with a total cholesterol of 146.

> Since the weight gain from the Seroquel is a concern, have they placed you

> on a low fat diet? How about exercise?

Low fat causes obesity and fats are needed to make HDL. Low HDL is a

better predictor of heart disease than high LDL and lowering fats in the

diet, especially saturated fats, lowers HDL. If doctors chose to look

at LDL particle size and treat that instead (VAP test), they would be

much more effective at preventing cardiovascular disease. Better to

remove all trans fats and most veggie fats while keeping fat intake at

more than one third of calories.

> But, you should try and eat some oatmeal or other oat related grain filled

> food. Oats help lower the lipid levels.

I recommend avoiding foods that weren't part of our evolutionary genetic

heritage, especially foods introduced at the advent of agriculture.

--

Steve - dudescholar4@...

Take World's Smallest Political Quiz at

http://www.theadvocates.org/quiz.html

" If a thousand old beliefs were ruined on our march

to truth we must still march on. " --Stopford

[Guest guest]

Hi Steve,

You¹re right and I know that it¹s just that I forget myself

sometimes and do try to reason with people to use discretion when giving

advice ­

but I should know better by now - -

if she were going to use logic and not play doctor

she would already have done that by now.

Sue

On 12/29/08 8:56 PM, " Steve " <dudescholar4@...> wrote:

> .

>

> Nancie's claim to her " authority " doesn't either make her more accurate

> nor does it entitle her messages to have more weight than anyone else's.

> Certainly her understanding of cholesterol and heart disease is way

> off in the weeds and designed to promote the profits of drug makers and

> cardiovascular related profits at the health expense of the people it

> purports to help.

>

[Guest guest]

if i wanted to, i could.

it is alot of work, but my fellow NP friends have talked about it.

once again I do not need a MD to supervise me. I practice 100% autonomously.

I am medi-care certified and i can get insurance reimbursements.

-- Re: Lab Results

Nancie Barnett wrote:

> I am a NP, which is the same level as a physician.

Try opening your own practice.

> I can do the same things

> as a MD. I practice autonomously from a MD. End of story.

--

Steve - dudescholar4@...

Take World's Smallest Political Quiz at

http://www.theadvocates.org/quiz.html

" If a thousand old beliefs were ruined on our march

to truth we must still march on. " --Stopford

[Guest guest]

you need to broaden your knowledge of what NP's can do. you are living in

the dark ages.

-- Re: Lab Results

Nancie Barnett wrote:

> I am a NP, which is the same level as a physician.

Try opening your own practice.

> I can do the same things

> as a MD. I practice autonomously from a MD. End of story.

--

Steve - dudescholar4@...

Take World's Smallest Political Quiz at

http://www.theadvocates.org/quiz.html

" If a thousand old beliefs were ruined on our march

to truth we must still march on. " --Stopford

[Guest guest]

Have you tried magnesium for sleep? Or acupuncture? Regular exercise also

helps, but not within 4 hours of sleep.

Seroquel is a bit harsh a drug to take for insomnia. It has so many nasty

side effects.

One of the side effects is hypothyroidism. I don't know off hand what the

exact mechanism that causes the thyroid disease.but, interferes with both

dopamine and serotonin in the brain.

I have insomnia probs and I use magnesium for sleep. It works and it also

helps with any muscle sorness and any muscle twitching. Acupuncture also

works very well. Have you seen a natural medicine provider?

If you were my patient, I would not have you on Seroquel.

-- Re: Re: Lab Results

,

Can you please tell me what the effect of Seroquel has on the Thyroid. I

was prescribed it for insomnia because I was sleep-eating on Ambien. I was

under major stress for an extended period of time and it became a chronic

condition. I read that elevated TSH leves are a rare side effect of the

medication. I'm not taking it for any type of psychosis it is just because

I have terrible insomia. I have gained a significant amount of weight since

taking Seroquel which I've read is fairly common. I've tried other

sedatives/hypnotics but they are just not as effective. Do you happen to

know if people loose weight when they discontinue the medication?

Thanks,

Alisa

> Sue-

>

> I am correct and I stand by my statements. Elevated lipid levels

contribute

> significantly to heart disease and stroke. They cause atherscelorosis

which

> causes over time a chronic inflammatory response in the arterial walls

> leading to plaque formation and the aggregation/ clumping of platelets in

> your blood. This can lead to a blockage in the coronary arteries and

> cerebral arteries that triggers the release of homosistein and CK and

> prostaglandins and other neuro endocrine chemicals that maintain and

sustain

> the chronic inflammatory response. This chronic inflammatory response that

> is going on in the walls of both the coronary and cerebral arterial walls

> can lead to a complete blockage of blood flow or a clot breaking off and

> traveling elsewhere to cause a stoppage that can lead to a MI or a stroke.

>

> Go ask your cardiologist. I am sure he put in simple terms for you since

you

> are not a medical professional. Ask him why he has his patients on lipitor

> and other cholesterol lowering agents. Why do you think that is? These

> agents lower the lipid levels so they take a significant risk factor out

of

> the equation. Ask him why he thinks exercise is so important. Why it helps

> raise the HDL levels that can help lower the risk ratio of HDL?LDL that

[Guest guest]

Nancie Barnett wrote:

> steve-

> WTH?

> my experience is standard for both western AND Natural medicine!!!!

Let me be frank. I think your theory of cardiovascular disease and

treatment is still far far far from the truth.

> i do NOT advocate any statins and i never did write that i did. I wrote that

> i would try natural medicne. I think trying a nutritionist and a natural

> medicine provider does NOT advocate theu use of western meds such as statins

> it speaks to the opposite. is omega-3 fish oils a statin?? or is it a

> natural medicine?

It's neither.

> Garlic is also used to lower BP. is that western?

Doesn't work very well for lowering BP, not very well at all. It can,

in doses of 6000 mg/day + of aged garlic slowly decrease carotid plaque

thickness as measured by IMT scans, but pomegranate is better here.

Decreasing plaque is a good thing and something effective should be

promoted, but it's not patentable and thank goodness for that, we don't

need another $200 a month drug.

> what about Iodine? is that

> western or natural?

I don't necessarily define treatment options as " natural " or " western "

but by what is effective. I'm the pragmatic sort. I'll use whatever

works and has the best pros/cons/price/availability trade offs to get

the job done. I don't limit myself to just " natural " .

> she can also try Iodine to see if it works for her. I

> can't take it. but, maybe she is not allergic and thus it may help her with

> her thyroid issues, which will help with her lipid levels.

> I wrote that i think her boss probably uses statins and since sue thinks

> he/she is some kind of " god " , then maybe she should think about that.

> I would like you to explain what about my description of the

> pathophyslogical process of heart disease and athersclerosis do you object

> to? what are your credentials?

I mentioned some of this in other posts. What I've leaned is that the

process of atherosclerosis is driven by modern diet, high calcium

intake, low D3, and low K2. Inflammation is caused by these dietary

issues, plaque is primarily calcium build up, and calcium is not part of

cholesterol. The whole profit motivated practice of cardiology is

framed not to solve problems, or even discover how they occur, but to

maximize profits.

Your mantra on low fat diets is a testament to how screwed up the system

is, since well meaning people continue to press this falsehood.

--

Steve - dudescholar4@...

Take World's Smallest Political Quiz at

http://www.theadvocates.org/quiz.html

" If a thousand old beliefs were ruined on our march

to truth we must still march on. " --Stopford

[Guest guest]

Aren't we all? Blood letting and leaches are just going by modern

variations.

Nancie Barnett wrote:

> you need to broaden your knowledge of what NP's can do. you are living in

> the dark ages.

>

> -- Re: Lab Results

>

>

>

> Nancie Barnett wrote:

>> I am a NP, which is the same level as a physician.

>

> Try opening your own practice.

>

>> I can do the same things

>> as a MD. I practice autonomously from a MD. End of story.

>

--

Steve - dudescholar4@...

Take World's Smallest Political Quiz at

http://www.theadvocates.org/quiz.html

" If a thousand old beliefs were ruined on our march

to truth we must still march on. " --Stopford

[Guest guest]

All her labs need to be addressed. ALL of them. She needs to be on a low

saturated fat diet.

Low fat does NOT cause obesity at all. Over eating and lack of exercise and

certain medications causes obesity. Once she drops her lipid levels back to

normal and she loses some of the seoquel fat, then she can re-introduce some

fats back into her diet. But, not now. Her lab values are of a concern,

especially since they are fasting values. They indicate a chronic problem.

Thus they need to be monitored closely. That is good medicine and insurance

does cover it. In the beginning we monitor frequently and as the person

starts to stabilize we monitor less often.

Since she has a positive family history of heart disease, there is more of a

concern given her lab results. Thyroid disease ups the ante. She needs to

stabilize her thyroid problem. Many of her problems with elevated lipids may

go away following proper treatment for thyroid disease.

She can go online and do the labs via the canary club if she doesn't have

insurance.

She should try to eat these 2 types of diets: like in vegetarian or vegan.

Oats are not bad carobs at all. They are high in fiber and they help drop

the lipid levels. So will eating lots of fresh and steamed veggies. Either

way works. Fiber is a key here.

your advice is MUCH more Extreme than mine.

-- Re: Lab Results

Nancie Barnett wrote:

> Alisa-

>

> Your lipids are still elevated. Because of that they are a concern. What

> does your primary have to say?

Her trigs are a much better and effective predictor of possible future

cardiovascular events. That should be addressed first. Having a total

cholesterol of 266 results in a very small increased chance of heart

diseases but is highly protective against getting cancer. In other

words, she will live longer, statistically speaking, with a total

cholesterol of 266 than with a total cholesterol of 146.

> Since the weight gain from the Seroquel is a concern, have they placed you

> on a low fat diet? How about exercise?

Low fat causes obesity and fats are needed to make HDL. Low HDL is a

better predictor of heart disease than high LDL and lowering fats in the

diet, especially saturated fats, lowers HDL. If doctors chose to look

at LDL particle size and treat that instead (VAP test), they would be

much more effective at preventing cardiovascular disease. Better to

remove all trans fats and most veggie fats while keeping fat intake at

more than one third of calories.

> But, you should try and eat some oatmeal or other oat related grain filled

> food. Oats help lower the lipid levels.

I recommend avoiding foods that weren't part of our evolutionary genetic

heritage, especially foods introduced at the advent of agriculture.

--

Steve - dudescholar4@...

Take World's Smallest Political Quiz at

http://www.theadvocates.org/quiz.html

" If a thousand old beliefs were ruined on our march

to truth we must still march on. " --Stopford

[Guest guest]

All her labs need to be addressed. ALL of them. She needs to be on a low

saturated fat diet.

Low fat does NOT cause obesity at all. Over eating and lack of exercise and

certain medications causes obesity. Once she drops her lipid levels back to

normal and she loses some of the seroquel fat, then she can re-introduce

some fats back into her diet. But, not now. Her lab values are of a concern,

especially since they are fasting values. They indicate a chronic problem.

Thus they need to be monitored closely. That is good medicine and insurance

does cover it. In the beginning we monitor frequently and as the person

starts to stabilize we monitor less often.

Since she has a positive family history of heart disease, there is more of a

concern given her lab results. Thyroid disease ups the ante. She needs to

stabilize her thyroid problem. Many of her problems with elevated lipids may

go away following proper treatment for thyroid disease.

She can go online and do the labs via the canary club if she doesn't have

insurance.

She should try to eat these 2 types of diets: like in vegetarian or vegan.

Oats are not bad carobs at all. They are high in fiber and they help drop

the lipid levels. So will eating lots of fresh and steamed veggies. Either

way works. Fiber is a key here.

-- Re: Lab Results

Nancie Barnett wrote:

> Alisa-

>

> Your lipids are still elevated. Because of that they are a concern. What

> does your primary have to say?

Her trigs are a much better and effective predictor of possible future

cardiovascular events. That should be addressed first. Having a total

cholesterol of 266 results in a very small increased chance of heart

diseases but is highly protective against getting cancer. In other

words, she will live longer, statistically speaking, with a total

cholesterol of 266 than with a total cholesterol of 146.

> Since the weight gain from the Seroquel is a concern, have they placed you

> on a low fat diet? How about exercise?

Low fat causes obesity and fats are needed to make HDL. Low HDL is a

better predictor of heart disease than high LDL and lowering fats in the

diet, especially saturated fats, lowers HDL. If doctors chose to look

at LDL particle size and treat that instead (VAP test), they would be

much more effective at preventing cardiovascular disease. Better to

remove all trans fats and most veggie fats while keeping fat intake at

more than one third of calories.

> But, you should try and eat some oatmeal or other oat related grain filled

> food. Oats help lower the lipid levels.

I recommend avoiding foods that weren't part of our evolutionary genetic

heritage, especially foods introduced at the advent of agriculture.

--

Steve - dudescholar4@...

Take World's Smallest Political Quiz at

http://www.theadvocates.org/quiz.html

" If a thousand old beliefs were ruined on our march

to truth we must still march on. " --Stopford

[Guest guest]

I don't need to play doctor, sue because I can practice as the next best

thing.

I can do everything that a primary care physician can do.

You are just jealous.

-- Re: Lab Results

Hi Steve,

You¹re right and I know that it¹s just that I forget myself

sometimes and do try to reason with people to use discretion when giving

advice ­

but I should know better by now - -

if she were going to use logic and not play doctor

she would already have done that by now.

Sue

On 12/29/08 8:56 PM, " Steve " <dudescholar4@...> wrote:

> .

>

> Nancie's claim to her " authority " doesn't either make her more accurate

> nor does it entitle her messages to have more weight than anyone else's.

> Certainly her understanding of cholesterol and heart disease is way

> off in the weeds and designed to promote the profits of drug makers and

> cardiovascular related profits at the health expense of the people it

> purports to help.

>

[Guest guest]

ROTFLMAO.

-- Re: Lab Results

Nancie Barnett wrote:

> steve-

> WTH?

> my experience is standard for both western AND Natural medicine!!!!

Let me be frank. I think your theory of cardiovascular disease and

treatment is still far far far from the truth.

> i do NOT advocate any statins and i never did write that i did. I wrote

that

> i would try natural medicne. I think trying a nutritionist and a natural

> medicine provider does NOT advocate theu use of western meds such as

statins

> it speaks to the opposite. is omega-3 fish oils a statin?? or is it a

> natural medicine?

It's neither.

> Garlic is also used to lower BP. is that western?

Doesn't work very well for lowering BP, not very well at all. It can,

in doses of 6000 mg/day + of aged garlic slowly decrease carotid plaque

thickness as measured by IMT scans, but pomegranate is better here.

Decreasing plaque is a good thing and something effective should be

promoted, but it's not patentable and thank goodness for that, we don't

need another $200 a month drug.

> what about Iodine? is that

> western or natural?

I don't necessarily define treatment options as " natural " or " western "

but by what is effective. I'm the pragmatic sort. I'll use whatever

works and has the best pros/cons/price/availability trade offs to get

the job done. I don't limit myself to just " natural " .

> she can also try Iodine to see if it works for her. I

> can't take it. but, maybe she is not allergic and thus it may help her

with

> her thyroid issues, which will help with her lipid levels.

> I wrote that i think her boss probably uses statins and since sue thinks

> he/she is some kind of " god " , then maybe she should think about that.

> I would like you to explain what about my description of the

> pathophyslogical process of heart disease and athersclerosis do you object

> to? what are your credentials?

I mentioned some of this in other posts. What I've leaned is that the

process of atherosclerosis is driven by modern diet, high calcium

intake, low D3, and low K2. Inflammation is caused by these dietary

issues, plaque is primarily calcium build up, and calcium is not part of

cholesterol. The whole profit motivated practice of cardiology is

framed not to solve problems, or even discover how they occur, but to

maximize profits.

Your mantra on low fat diets is a testament to how screwed up the system

is, since well meaning people continue to press this falsehood.

--

Steve - dudescholar4@...

Take World's Smallest Political Quiz at

http://www.theadvocates.org/quiz.html

" If a thousand old beliefs were ruined on our march

to truth we must still march on. " --Stopford

[Guest guest]

Nancie Barnett wrote:

> I don't need to play doctor, sue because I can practice as the next best

> thing.

>

> I can do everything that a primary care physician can do.

>

> You are just jealous.

I think it's very possible to be disagreeable without personal attacks.

--

Steve - dudescholar4@...

Take World's Smallest Political Quiz at

http://www.theadvocates.org/quiz.html

" If a thousand old beliefs were ruined on our march

to truth we must still march on. " --Stopford

[Guest guest]

Let me provide some research over the next few days as time allows:

First, will discuss vitamin D3 starting with cardiovascular disease's

high correlation to latitude and vitamin D levels. There's a lot of

good recent research in this area.

Second, I'll address vitamin K.

Third, I'll touch base on a recent large study in New Zealand that

clearly shows that calcium supplementation increased cardiovascular

events and death, dramatically.

Then, if you're still listening, we can look a the recent research on

pomegranate.

I'm am curious as to why you think that being pragmatic in personal

treatment options is funny?

We can eventually get to " low fat diets " , but I don't believe you're

open to any real research.

I'm also curious why, if you really practice medicine, how you keep any

patients since your " bedside " manner on the internet is practically

nonexistent. I usually use this as very strong evidence that the

personal claiming to be a medical professional is being dishonest.

How about you address the issues with facts, instead of cames and what

your 'a' is doing.

Steve

Nancie Barnett wrote:

> ROTFLMAO.

>

> -- Re: Lab Results

>

>

>

> Nancie Barnett wrote:

>> steve-

>> WTH?

>> my experience is standard for both western AND Natural medicine!!!!

>

> Let me be frank. I think your theory of cardiovascular disease and

> treatment is still far far far from the truth.

>

>> i do NOT advocate any statins and i never did write that i did. I wrote

> that

>> i would try natural medicne. I think trying a nutritionist and a natural

>> medicine provider does NOT advocate theu use of western meds such as

> statins

>> it speaks to the opposite. is omega-3 fish oils a statin?? or is it a

>> natural medicine?

>

> It's neither.

>

>> Garlic is also used to lower BP. is that western?

>

> Doesn't work very well for lowering BP, not very well at all. It can,

> in doses of 6000 mg/day + of aged garlic slowly decrease carotid plaque

> thickness as measured by IMT scans, but pomegranate is better here.

> Decreasing plaque is a good thing and something effective should be

> promoted, but it's not patentable and thank goodness for that, we don't

> need another $200 a month drug.

>

>> what about Iodine? is that

>> western or natural?

>

> I don't necessarily define treatment options as " natural " or " western "

> but by what is effective. I'm the pragmatic sort. I'll use whatever

> works and has the best pros/cons/price/availability trade offs to get

> the job done. I don't limit myself to just " natural " .

>

>> she can also try Iodine to see if it works for her. I

>> can't take it. but, maybe she is not allergic and thus it may help her

> with

>> her thyroid issues, which will help with her lipid levels.

>> I wrote that i think her boss probably uses statins and since sue thinks

>> he/she is some kind of " god " , then maybe she should think about that.

>> I would like you to explain what about my description of the

>> pathophyslogical process of heart disease and athersclerosis do you object

>> to? what are your credentials?

>

> I mentioned some of this in other posts. What I've leaned is that the

> process of atherosclerosis is driven by modern diet, high calcium

> intake, low D3, and low K2. Inflammation is caused by these dietary

> issues, plaque is primarily calcium build up, and calcium is not part of

> cholesterol. The whole profit motivated practice of cardiology is

> framed not to solve problems, or even discover how they occur, but to

> maximize profits.

>

> Your mantra on low fat diets is a testament to how screwed up the system

> is, since well meaning people continue to press this falsehood.

>

--

Steve - dudescholar4@...

Take World's Smallest Political Quiz at

http://www.theadvocates.org/quiz.html

" If a thousand old beliefs were ruined on our march

to truth we must still march on. " --Stopford

[Guest guest]

LOL

do you mean " disagree " ? some ppl will always be disagreeable.

Gracia

Nancie Barnett wrote:

> I don't need to play doctor, sue because I can practice as the next best

> thing.

>

> I can do everything that a primary care physician can do.

>

> You are just jealous.

I think it's very possible to be disagreeable without personal attacks.

--

Steve - dudescholar4@...

Take World's Smallest Political Quiz at

http://www.theadvocates.org/quiz.html

" If a thousand old beliefs were ruined on our march

to truth we must still march on. " --Stopford

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