Re: Community Therapeutic Day School

[Guest guest]

" This is a copied post from the other parent site i belong too. This

is the reality of special education and frantic parents get no rest

from their worry. "

This sounds like stories I have heard about ABA therapy. Parents

vigorously approve of ABA, many even after they see it employed.

I think it's sick.

Tom

Administrator

[Guest guest]

" This is a copied post from the other parent site i belong too. This

is the reality of special education and frantic parents get no rest

from their worry. "

This sounds like stories I have heard about ABA therapy. Parents

vigorously approve of ABA, many even after they see it employed.

I think it's sick.

Tom

Administrator

[Guest guest]

>

> " This is a copied post from the other parent site i belong too. This

> is the reality of special education and frantic parents get no rest

> from their worry. "

>

> This sounds like stories I have heard about ABA therapy. Parents

> vigorously approve of ABA, many even after they see it employed.

>

> I think it's sick.

..

Thank you for the post, Mimi, and thank you for your comment.

I am sitting here with a stomach ache and anxiety - remembering how in

the fifties my brother, ADHD, A.S. and Non-Verbal Learning Disorder

would be " captured " and beaten with a belt at our nursery school - and

then when I would attack, screaming and kicking, we both would be

locked in the backroom. Since I was mostly silent and seemingly

placid - later school was not so bad, except for the bullying - but

for my brother it was constant horror and abuse by teachers - that has

left him really scarred emotionally and doubting his abilities to

learn things. I had really hoped things had progressed - this is just

too sick for words. I am very angry that " professionals " can justify

abuse like this - although it happens in " professional " circles all of

the time.

Again, Thank-you both.

Zarin

[Guest guest]

" I had really hoped things had progressed - this is just too sick for

words. I am very angry that " professionals " can justify abuse like

this - although it happens in " professional " circles all of the time. "

For people to behave this way towards children, they have to be taught

that those they are " caring " for are lesser human beings. It is taking

quite a bit of work in the family forum to change parents' perceptions

that their kids are not in some way defective but just different.

Tom

Administrator

[Guest guest]

>

> " I had really hoped things had progressed - this is just too sick for

> words.

It is taking

> quite a bit of work in the family forum to change parents'

perceptions

> that their kids are not in some way defective but just different.

>

> Tom

> Administrator

>

Parents are a very big part of the problem in that many want a quick

fix or pill. Attention and the richness that comes from it runs

roughhouse over girl's and guy's nights out. Many really just don't

want to bother parenting. they should have abstained from sex. Maybe

some aspies asexuality is really pragmatic thinking on their part as

the mating thing produces mixed results and is not a testament of love

as it is exemplified. it can be but that too takes work and trust and

with things as they are maybe odds of winning a major lottery are

higher. heavy sigh maybe i'm moody at present. it happens when hope

gets stepped on

[Guest guest]

>

> " I had really hoped things had progressed - this is just too sick for

> words.

It is taking

> quite a bit of work in the family forum to change parents'

perceptions

> that their kids are not in some way defective but just different.

>

> Tom

> Administrator

>

Parents are a very big part of the problem in that many want a quick

fix or pill. Attention and the richness that comes from it runs

roughhouse over girl's and guy's nights out. Many really just don't

want to bother parenting. they should have abstained from sex. Maybe

some aspies asexuality is really pragmatic thinking on their part as

the mating thing produces mixed results and is not a testament of love

as it is exemplified. it can be but that too takes work and trust and

with things as they are maybe odds of winning a major lottery are

higher. heavy sigh maybe i'm moody at present. it happens when hope

gets stepped on

[Guest guest]

This sort of thing sickens me - that we are supposedly civilised and

yet are still doing this to children.

I will never fully understand this, nor will I ever fully understand

why it is still happening - how these places are still allowed to

run, why aren't people in uproar and getting such places either

closed down or make the staff responsible, answer for what they are

doing - there really should be consequences for adults doing such

things and yet consistently too many seem to get away with it :-(

They are picking on children - physically too! To me this is clearly

abuse, although I am sadly aware that some try to justify such :-(

Is anyone on the forum this was copied from trying to get the place

to stop these practices?

> >

> > Only my experience, but.... CTDS was terrible for my son. He

spent a

> month there and was prone restrained 3 times. (He had never been

> restrained in the previous 6 years of his life for behaviors).

> >

> > Laurel

>

[Guest guest]

After a while, schools begin to become a closed and secret club. As

with any club, dependeing on its nature and how it is run, it can

either become a place of good, or a place of bad.

In the school that was spoken about, clearly the worst traits in

people were allowed to express themselves unfettered.

Knowing people's secret natures as I do (as an Aspie, I see it all

the time in the form of prejudice against me and those like me) I

question what it is NT get upset about when they hear that stuff

like this goes on.

-Are they upset because they are surprised to hear that such

activity takes place?

-Are they expressing perfunctory indignation? In other words, are

they upset because that is the required social response?

Or...

-Are they upset that these people (who surely possess the same

attitude toward special needs kids as they do) were stupid enough to

get caught openly displaying their prejudices?

My money is on the last one.

In my heart I KNOW that most NTs HATE anything that is abnormal or

antisocial. No matter what they say to the contrary, they do not

know what love is or how to love anyone who is different from

themselves.

As an advocate, I have seen blatant, systematic and collective

prejudice from the most upstanding people in society, and it takes

place with the firm approval of those people who put them in power.

But nothing pisses off someone more than when a universal prejudice

gets discovered. Anger usually results, but it it usually anger that

everyone's own internal prejudice was exposed in someone who was too

stupid to be able to cover it up.

That is why society brings " offenders " to justice while secretly

persisting in the same behaviors themselves.

Tom

Administrator

This sort of thing sickens me - that we are supposedly civilised and

yet are still doing this to children.

I will never fully understand this, nor will I ever fully understand

why it is still happening - how these places are still allowed to

run, why aren't people in uproar and getting such places either

closed down or make the staff responsible, answer for what they are

doing - there really should be consequences for adults doing such

things and yet consistently too many seem to get away with it :-(

They are picking on children - physically too! To me this is clearly

abuse, although I am sadly aware that some try to justify such :-(

Is anyone on the forum this was copied from trying to get the place

to stop these practices?

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 7/19/2007 9:28:33 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, mnmimi@... writes:

Puppies are cute until they are dogs. Everyone wants a Baby, but few will admit they cannot care for one. It takes 2 adults much of the time and there were times that I would have liked 3 or more so we could get sleep and breaks (or Pee) I know gross humor. but when one is alone they sink or swim. In the case of couples usually a parent takes the lead. In rare cases 2 parents are dynamic It is my belief that in those cases children thrive. In any case some people should never have children (I wish those people would self sterize) Many social ills would dissapear if people were simply honest. Let's all pray Paris never has a baby!!!! LOL

This is a broad, genetic mammalian trait. There are common traits in most mammal species babies. Those traits are: small forehead, large eyes, smallish mouth, chubby cheeks. This constancy is pretty consistent. That is why humans find things like kittens, puppies, little monkeys, and Knut the polar bear so cute. As they age, that appearance is lost, which is why Knut is no longer the draw he once was and why animal babies are such big business at zoos.

Human babies also have a special, I've heard it described as a coating of some kind, called sebum. It has a scent that has an effect on the brain that further enhances attachment to the child by the parents. After a few months or a year, they lose that. Since it caused a kind of addiction in the brain of the adults, they have kind of a "let's have another one of those" effect.

These are traits that have developed over time to keep the parents interested in their offspring at least long enough for them to have a chance to survive on their own, and to get the parents to have more. Remember, we are talking genes here. Genes only care about one thing: reproduction. They only care if their host lives long enough to have a child or two, thus giving them a chance to continue. After than, the host can die. That is also why the sex drive is so strong. Nothing to do with emotions or anything spiritual, just the DNA trying to continue. Of course, that works well enough in animals, but humans had to go and "wake up" and become self-aware, which complicates things.

Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL.com.

[Guest guest]

> Is anyone on the forum this was copied from trying to get the place

> to stop these practices?

>

>

>

>

What parents usually do is change placement. These are private

schools approved for federal school choice funds. Parents recount

their horror stories including Department of Education findings and

school reprimands. For some reason the schools stay open. (I think

it is because some private pay parents do want to send their children

away) My daughter works in a residential placement school. She

genuinely loves these kids (some of whom are her age) but act 7-8 and

she tells me the stories of their parents that cannot deal or don't

want to see their children, then there are the sad ones that cannot

handle their children at home. Many are only semi verbal, some are

sexually innapproiate. having an adult body and a child mind. but

one of the women that belongs to the parent site I posted has a very

low functioning son that is over 6 ft. tall. he never left home and

is 22. she is a taller woman but she taught her son to use the rest

room. She takes her son everywhere, still to the movies and the

pond. She looks out for his safety, and she runs the Autism resource

center in my area. she is my sort of hero; in that I believe if she

could do it by will then i can too. she is also an aspie, who would

have guessed

her son is on an SCD diet and probiotics (now in the last 5 years)

It has served to change his behavior, but he would still walk into

traffic to avoid a bee

[Guest guest]

>

> Or...

>

> -Are they upset that these people (who surely possess the same

> attitude toward special needs kids as they do) were stupid enough

to

> get caught openly displaying their prejudices?

>

> My money is on the last one.

>

> In my heart I KNOW that most NTs HATE anything that is abnormal or

> antisocial. No matter what they say to the contrary, they do not

> know what love is or how to love anyone who is different from

> themselves.

>

My belief is that people shy away from what is hard and they feel for

the offender that that person lost control. they believe they

couldn't do it at all and so the stress must be sooo high. As in the

parent that commits murder.

The failure is in the lack of commitment and the puppy syndrome.

Puppies are cute until they are dogs. Everyone wants a Baby, but few

will admit they cannot care for one. It takes 2 adults much of the

time and there were times that I would have liked 3 or more so we

could get sleep and breaks (or Pee) I know gross humor. but when one

is alone they sink or swim. In the case of couples usually a parent

takes the lead. In rare cases 2 parents are dynamic It is my belief

that in those cases children thrive. In any case some people should

never have children (I wish those people would self sterize) Many

social ills would dissapear if people were simply honest. Let's all

pray Paris never has a baby!!!! LOL

[Guest guest]

" But nothing pisses off someone more than when a universal prejudice

gets discovered. Anger usually results, but it it usually anger that

everyone's own internal prejudice was exposed in someone who was too

stupid to be able to cover it up. "

It amazes and saddens me that in a lot of places when abuse gets

uncovered it was often going on for a long time and others had viewed

it and yet chose to remain silent on it.

Mmmmmm in fact I remember one person who refused to speak out about

abuse as they were scared of losing their work experience - when

faced with such attitudes I really despair of this world :-(

>

> After a while, schools begin to become a closed and secret club. As

> with any club, dependeing on its nature and how it is run, it can

> either become a place of good, or a place of bad.

>

> In the school that was spoken about, clearly the worst traits in

> people were allowed to express themselves unfettered.

>

> Knowing people's secret natures as I do (as an Aspie, I see it all

> the time in the form of prejudice against me and those like me) I

> question what it is NT get upset about when they hear that stuff

> like this goes on.

>

> -Are they upset because they are surprised to hear that such

> activity takes place?

>

> -Are they expressing perfunctory indignation? In other words, are

> they upset because that is the required social response?

>

> Or...

>

> -Are they upset that these people (who surely possess the same

> attitude toward special needs kids as they do) were stupid enough

to

> get caught openly displaying their prejudices?

>

> My money is on the last one.

>

> In my heart I KNOW that most NTs HATE anything that is abnormal or

> antisocial. No matter what they say to the contrary, they do not

> know what love is or how to love anyone who is different from

> themselves.

>

> As an advocate, I have seen blatant, systematic and collective

> prejudice from the most upstanding people in society, and it takes

> place with the firm approval of those people who put them in power.

>

> But nothing pisses off someone more than when a universal prejudice

> gets discovered. Anger usually results, but it it usually anger

that

> everyone's own internal prejudice was exposed in someone who was

too

> stupid to be able to cover it up.

>

> That is why society brings " offenders " to justice while secretly

> persisting in the same behaviors themselves.

>

> Tom

> Administrator

>

[Guest guest]

Tom,

Here's the thing no one is truly " normal " everyone NT has

something they hide from the world, be it a proclivity towards

something they consider to be not normal....this proclivity makes

them feel guilty and this is why they strike out and make a big deal

out of those folks who are truly different... it is a sad and

pitiful way to live life.. and I truly hope that if we keep talking

and informing NT people we can change that.

Thanks for listening.

Rose

>

> This sort of thing sickens me - that we are supposedly civilised

and

> yet are still doing this to children.

>

> I will never fully understand this, nor will I ever fully

understand

> why it is still happening - how these places are still allowed to

> run, why aren't people in uproar and getting such places either

> closed down or make the staff responsible, answer for what they are

> doing - there really should be consequences for adults doing such

> things and yet consistently too many seem to get away with it :-(

>

> They are picking on children - physically too! To me this is

clearly

> abuse, although I am sadly aware that some try to justify such :-(

>

> Is anyone on the forum this was copied from trying to get the place

> to stop these practices?

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 7/20/2007 4:04:09 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, enderwiggin52@... writes:

Having been groundlessly accused of a action that never occurred I feel that the accuser should have as much to lose as the accused to insureas certain the charge has a valid basis.Ender

I agree with you there. I have not had any legal trouble, yet, but friends have. A couple have been falsely accused of some serious offenses, and though they were exonerated, they had huge legal bills. The accuser should at least be required to pay the legal fees of the person they accused if their claims are found to be false. I also would not be adverse to seeing them exposed to the same penalty as the accused had faced, such as fines or prison time, etc.

Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL.com.

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 7/20/2007 4:04:09 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, enderwiggin52@... writes:

Having been groundlessly accused of a action that never occurred I feel that the accuser should have as much to lose as the accused to insureas certain the charge has a valid basis.Ender

I agree with you there. I have not had any legal trouble, yet, but friends have. A couple have been falsely accused of some serious offenses, and though they were exonerated, they had huge legal bills. The accuser should at least be required to pay the legal fees of the person they accused if their claims are found to be false. I also would not be adverse to seeing them exposed to the same penalty as the accused had faced, such as fines or prison time, etc.

Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL.com.

[Guest guest]

" Here's the thing no one is truly " normal " everyone NT has

something they hide from the world, be it a proclivity towards

something they consider to be not normal....this proclivity makes

them feel guilty and this is why they strike out and make a big deal

out of those folks who are truly different... it is a sad and

pitiful way to live life.. and I truly hope that if we keep talking

and informing NT people we can change that. "

Good words. Educating and advocating is what Raven and I are trying to

do. It becomes difficult though when non-Aspies go on the offensive to

hurt others. It is not the Aspie way. We do not lash out first. We

usually respond in kind, or else marginally more vehemently than the

perceived attack. People will say that we are almost bi-polar or over

react, but we simply respond according to how much we have been

affected.

Which brings up a second difference between Aspies and non-Aspies.

As I have stated: An Aspie will not draw first blood. Non-Aspies will.

But once an Aspie responds (or, in the perception of the non-Aspie,

over-responds) the non-Aspie will typically hold back their own

emotions and accuse us of over-reacting even though if THEY were

attacked first, they might be feeling the same degree of outrage

personally.

I understand the law, and I understand social conventions. You don't

haul off and belt someone because they upset you. At the same time, I

think if people were able to do that, there would be fewer people

upsetting other people.

Tom

Administrator

[Guest guest]

I agree idea but suggest expanding the concept a bit....

" Equal Jeopardy " in a nutshell... In any dispute all

parties to the dispute should have as much to loss as any other involved

party. The idea being that it would eliminate unfounded and

reckless claims and accusations. Basically if one party brings a

charge against another and it is later found that the accusing party knew

or had any reason to question the position they took in the dispute they

could be held open to the same penalties as the party they

accused...

Having been groundlessly accused of a action that never occurred I feel

that the accuser should have as much to lose as the accused to

insure

as certain the charge has a valid basis.

Ender

At 02:37 AM 7/20/2007, you wrote:

..

I understand the law, and I understand social conventions. You don't

haul off and belt someone because they upset you. At the same time, I

think if people were able to do that, there would be fewer people

upsetting other people.

Tom

Administrator

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 7/24/2007 3:31:25 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, julie.stevenson16@... writes:

Mmmmmmmmmm I must have been immune or something - last thing on my mind was having another child.

It could be that it has less of an affect one some people that others.

Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL.com.

[Guest guest]

" After a few months or a year, they lose that. Since it caused a kind

of addiction in the brain of the adults, they have kind of a " let's

have another one of those " effect. "

Mmmmmmmmmm I must have been immune or something - last thing on my

mind was having another child.

>

>

> In a message dated 7/19/2007 9:28:33 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,

> mnmimi@... writes:

>

> Puppies are cute until they are dogs. Everyone wants a Baby, but

few

> will admit they cannot care for one. It takes 2 adults much of the

> time and there were times that I would have liked 3 or more so we

> could get sleep and breaks (or Pee) I know gross humor. but when

one

> is alone they sink or swim. In the case of couples usually a

parent

> takes the lead. In rare cases 2 parents are dynamic It is my

belief

> that in those cases children thrive. In any case some people

should

> never have children (I wish those people would self sterize) Many

> social ills would dissapear if people were simply honest. Let's

all

> pray Paris never has a baby!!!! LOL

>

>

>

> This is a broad, genetic mammalian trait. There are common traits

in most

> mammal species babies. Those traits are: small forehead, large

eyes, smallish

> mouth, chubby cheeks. This constancy is pretty consistent. That is

why humans

> find things like kittens, puppies, little monkeys, and Knut the

polar bear so

> cute. As they age, that appearance is lost, which is why Knut is no

longer

> the draw he once was and why animal babies are such big business

at zoos.

>

> Human babies also have a special, I've heard it described as a

coating of

> some kind, called sebum. It has a scent that has an effect on the

brain that

> further enhances attachment to the child by the parents. After a

few months or a

> year, they lose that. Since it caused a kind of addiction in the

brain of

> the adults, they have kind of a " let's have another one of those "

effect.

>

> These are traits that have developed over time to keep the parents

> interested in their offspring at least long enough for them to have

a chance to

> survive on their own, and to get the parents to have more.

Remember, we are talking

> genes here. Genes only care about one thing: reproduction. They

only care if

> their host lives long enough to have a child or two, thus giving

them a

> chance to continue. After than, the host can die. That is also why

the sex drive

> is so strong. Nothing to do with emotions or anything spiritual,

just the DNA

> trying to continue. Of course, that works well enough in animals,

but humans

> had to go and " wake up " and become self-aware, which complicates

things.

>

>

>

>

>

> ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-

new AOL at

> http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour

>

[Guest guest]

mimi wrote: " ... <snip> ... Everyone wants a Baby, but few will

admit they cannot care for one ... <snip> ... "

Not everyone wants a baby.

Sometimes God sends babies to those who do not want them. Sometimes

those parents do what's right; sometimes those parents do what's

wrong.

Sometimes people who don't want any progeny take proper steps to

ensure that there are no surprises.

So, mimi, I must respecfully disagree with you when you say that

everyone wants a baby.

mimi wrote: " ... <snip> ... After a few months or a year, they lose

that. Since it caused a kind of addiction in the brain of the adults,

they have kind of a " let's have another one of those " effect. "

responded: " ... <snip> ... Mmmmmmmmmm I must have been immune

or something - last thing on my mind was having another child ...

<snip> ... "

I must also have been immune. I oftentimes joke that I was smart

enough to have my last child first ... and I mean it.

Raven

Co-Administrator

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 7/29/2007 5:55:07 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, julie.stevenson16@... writes:

Mmmmmmmmm am I getting mixed up, but I do believe wrote the above, perhaps you can verify if so or not?

That was mine. The problem comes with the way quoting from email works. It works by saying you are quoting who wrote the email, or post that came through the email. So, if you snip a part of someone quote that appeared in an emailed post sent by someone else, then it will say it is that person's quote.

Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL.com.

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 7/29/2007 5:55:07 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, julie.stevenson16@... writes:

Mmmmmmmmm am I getting mixed up, but I do believe wrote the above, perhaps you can verify if so or not?

That was mine. The problem comes with the way quoting from email works. It works by saying you are quoting who wrote the email, or post that came through the email. So, if you snip a part of someone quote that appeared in an emailed post sent by someone else, then it will say it is that person's quote.

Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL.com.

[Guest guest]

" mimi wrote: " ... <snip> ... After a few months or a year, they

lose that. Since it caused a kind of addiction in the brain of the

adults, they have kind of a " let's have another one of those " effect. "

Mmmmmmmmm am I getting mixed up, but I do believe wrote the

above, perhaps you can verify if so or not?

" ... <snip> ... After a few months or a year, they

lose

> that. Since it caused a kind of addiction in the brain of the

adults,

> they have kind of a " let's have another one of those " effect. "

>

> responded: " ... <snip> ... Mmmmmmmmmm I must have been

immune

> or something - last thing on my mind was having another child ...

> <snip> ... "

>

> I must also have been immune. I oftentimes joke that I was smart

> enough to have my last child first ... and I mean it.

>

> Raven

> Co-Administrator

>

[Guest guest]

" mimi wrote: " ... <snip> ... After a few months or a year, they

lose that. Since it caused a kind of addiction in the brain of the

adults, they have kind of a " let's have another one of those " effect. "

Mmmmmmmmm am I getting mixed up, but I do believe wrote the

above, perhaps you can verify if so or not?

" ... <snip> ... After a few months or a year, they

lose

> that. Since it caused a kind of addiction in the brain of the

adults,

> they have kind of a " let's have another one of those " effect. "

>

> responded: " ... <snip> ... Mmmmmmmmmm I must have been

immune

> or something - last thing on my mind was having another child ...

> <snip> ... "

>

> I must also have been immune. I oftentimes joke that I was smart

> enough to have my last child first ... and I mean it.

>

> Raven

> Co-Administrator

>

[Guest guest]

>

> " After a few months or a year, they lose that. Since it caused a kind

> of addiction in the brain of the adults, they have kind of a " let's

> have another one of those " effect. "

>

> Mmmmmmmmmm I must have been immune or something - last thing on my

> mind was having another child.

>

>

>

That was because you had sense. after my first i wanted to tie my

tubes (dr refused) after the second I was sure (dr refused and family

argued with me that I was being to finite and what if what if. after

Ravi I demanded and recieved a cease fire on parenthood. Of course now

that they are here i wouldn't toss any of my puppies out. i got 2 dogs

for Ravi but when they are gone no more and I don't even have plants.

I do love things that live outside though. i just refuse to collect

any more living things