Re: Aspie Love - Keeping Secrets

[Guest guest]

I'm sorry about your Uncle. Family grapevines don't help either.

Kim

> It seems my uncle was just diagnosed with leukemia and lung cancer

> in addition to having possibly had a stroke.

> Tom

> Administrator

>

[Guest guest]

I'm sorry about your Uncle. Family grapevines don't help either.

Kim

> It seems my uncle was just diagnosed with leukemia and lung cancer

> in addition to having possibly had a stroke.

> Tom

> Administrator

>

[Guest guest]

RE Keeping secrets; Words vs. Deeds. To Environmental1st2003- I'm always completely blown away when people reveal secrets. It just seems like complete sacrilege. Almost beyond my comprehension. So I ask myself here- why am I like that? My experience has been that people who do tell secrets often try to justify themselves by saying "But I meant well!" (Sometimes in a whiny voice, and yes I'm especially thinking of a particular person.) But if it is true that some are absent a module in the brain for thinking about what is going on in the minds of others .. a theory of mind module as they call it... then you don't bother with such justifications. The don't make any sense. (Or in the language of French existentialism and latin word roots it's "absurd", ab = without and surd = "sound" or "meaning".) (Has the

theory of mind theory (ha) been discussed much here? Like most it seems to me to only explain some percentage... and there are plenty of exceptions. Just as a "for example" I suspect many use other portions of their mind for thinking about what happens in the minds of others- "folk physics" mental modules instead of the "folk psychology" mental module. That kind of neural plasticity is rather well known in cognitive neuropsychology I think. Okay, another digression here... I suspect the reason why people with ASD (aspies, adult autistics etc) are often found playing chess well is because when they think about social relations they are doing a kind of social chess game. Anyway, I think it's interesting to contemplate under what circumstances it's more neurologically efficient and so forth to use the folk physics mental module for reasoning about social "chess" relations. Part of this ties into an idea called frequency dependent selection if anyone is up for googling on

that.) So I have this notion that ASD persons and others have a strong tendency to judge and justify on the basis of ~actions~, not intentions or words about intentions. But I've only met two others (beside myself) in my life who were clearly very high in that sort of dimension (ASD etc.)- so I don't have much of a basis to go on... especially since one of those other two (textbook asperger's I think) resorted frequently to intentions as a means of justification. Heph environmental1st2003 <no_reply > wrote: I keep my AS girlfriend's secrets. If there is something she wants me to know, I listen. If she tells me not to tell anyone else what she just told me, I do not.This is a far cry from what my aunt just did with(out) respect to her husband...It seems my uncle was just diagnosed with leukemia and lung cancer in addition to having possibly had a stroke. How did I find this out? My aunt told my mom. Then my mom told me and my dad. And then mom proceeded to e-mail my sister and some other relavtives. The thing is, my uncle asked my aunt not to tell anyone, including her sisters. He didn't want his relatives, or his in laws, or his kids to worry about him, nor did he want his grandkids to get all worked up about a death that may not occur for quite a while yet.Even though my uncle is still

in the hospital, my aunt plans on telling him that his reasoning is stupid, and that everyone ought to know about his "secret" whether he wants them to or not, that she has already told his secret, and that he can stop being a 67 year old baby about things. Due to my mom's e-mailing, one of my uncle's grandkids found out, and is in tears.I would never dishonor my girlfriend by passing along things she does not want passed on.TomAdministrator Hephaestus Clubfoothttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hephaestushttp://www.pantheon.org/articles/h/hephaestus.htmlhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kabeiroi

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[Guest guest]

Tom wrote: " I keep my AS girlfriend's secrets.

If there is something she wants me to know, I listen. If she tells

me not to tell anyone else what she just told me, I do not.

This is a far cry from what my aunt just did with(out) respect to

her husband ... <snip> ... "

There is absolutely no reason why something told in confidence to

another should be repeated to another unless we're talking a plot to

commit a crime (the only reason I can think of for breaching a

confidence) and even then, I would think trying to talk reason into

the other person's head would still be the first reaction.

Tom wrote: " ... <snip> ... one of my uncle's grandkids found out,

and is in tears. "

That is devastating. Now that poor child is going to have that

thought in his or her head until your uncle passes on. That little

one could have had many months of happy memories ahead but now they

are tainted because the act of breaching a confidence set all of

this in motion.

And it is unfair to the child if the parents of this child then

swear him or her to secrecy. What a horrible burden that would be

for any children to carry.

I am so sorry this has happened to your uncle and the grandchildren.

What do others think of keeping confidences? Are there any

circumstances under which you would breach a confidence, and if so,

what circumstances would those be?

Raven

[Guest guest]

" So I have this notion that ASD persons and others have a strong

tendency to judge and justify on the basis of ~actions~, not

intentions or words about intentions. "

Your notion is probably correct. It is illogical to believe we can

know anything about a person's intentions. Therefore I, and other

Aspies I know, seem to judge on a person's actions. However, we may

postulate as to why those actions were undertaken before rendering

judgement.

Tom

Administrator

[Guest guest]

" So I have this notion that ASD persons and others have a strong

tendency to judge and justify on the basis of ~actions~, not

intentions or words about intentions. "

Your notion is probably correct. It is illogical to believe we can

know anything about a person's intentions. Therefore I, and other

Aspies I know, seem to judge on a person's actions. However, we may

postulate as to why those actions were undertaken before rendering

judgement.

Tom

Administrator

[Guest guest]

It's funny, but in my younger years I woud have taken this as a matter

of course. People born, they live, and they die. But I am realizing

now as the hair begins to fall out of my scalp and other hairs turn

gray that I can die too.

That seems to be the way THIS soon to be death is hitting me.

That may seem shallow, but death is not new to me, having had three

friends who have committed suicide, two dying of cancer, and one dying

after falling off a cliff and dying. One learns to both get used to

it, and live with it.

Though it is hard sometimes.

Tom

Administrator

> It seems my uncle was just diagnosed with leukemia and lung cancer

> in addition to having possibly had a stroke.

> Tom

> Administrator

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Tom, I faced a similar situation when my mom was dying, she was diagnosed in November, of 2001, or more acurately was told the cancer was back. She swore me to secrecy in fact if her dr didn't call me looking for her she probably wouldn't have told me. In January when she had the surgery I took her and stayed in the hospital with her, and kept my mouth shut. When she started getting sick, I made her call my brother and tell him. Once she found out exactly how bad it was I was alowed to contact imediate family (on feb 14th great valentines day present). When she was getting bad and I was going to put her on the morphine she told me after she was out of it I could tell the rest of her friends (she passed Feb 22 in the early am) boy her friends were mad at me, the first thing they wanted to know was why I didn't tell anyone, they wanted to be there for her, but what

they didn't realize was that she didn't want them. She wanted to be alone with her family, and personally I cant blame her. Infact I was the only one there when she died. I sat there all night waiting because I couldn't allow her to die alone. The family and close friends some of them are still mad at me for not letting them know earlier, but a secret is a secret and she didn't want me to tell them. I had to carry throught with her wishes. Promises work the same way with me. If I make a promise I will do whatever it is I promise to do. I don't understand how people can promise things frivioulously, and not keep to there promises. Beth environmental1st2003

<no_reply > wrote: I keep my AS girlfriend's secrets. If there is something she wants me to know, I listen. If she tells me not to tell anyone else what she just told me, I do not.This is a far cry from what my aunt just did with(out) respect to her husband...It seems my uncle was just diagnosed with leukemia and lung cancer in addition to having possibly had a stroke. How did I find this out? My aunt told my mom. Then my mom told me and my dad. And then mom proceeded

to e-mail my sister and some other relavtives. The thing is, my uncle asked my aunt not to tell anyone, including her sisters. He didn't want his relatives, or his in laws, or his kids to worry about him, nor did he want his grandkids to get all worked up about a death that may not occur for quite a while yet.Even though my uncle is still in the hospital, my aunt plans on telling him that his reasoning is stupid, and that everyone ought to know about his "secret" whether he wants them to or not, that she has already told his secret, and that he can stop being a 67 year old baby about things. Due to my mom's e-mailing, one of my uncle's grandkids found out, and is in tears.I would never dishonor my girlfriend by passing along things she does not want passed on.TomAdministrator

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[Guest guest]

Beth, I'm sorry for your loss. That must have been so difficult,

not the secret keeping but the illness, on you. Did her friends

call or come by while she was ill? If they did, what did you tell

them if they asked about her? I applaude you for abiding by her

wishes even when you knew that others would feel put out that she

didn't want or need them during her illness.

I too was at my Father's side when he passed and often wonder how my

siblings felt about not being there. I did learn during his illness

that some people can not cope around someone who is terminal even

though they may be the most loving individual. Some would avoid

comming to visit because they wanted to remember the ill person as

they were.

I have a hard time understanding the motives behind those who expose

a persons secrets. Do they know that they've destroyed a trust that

most likely can never be regained? I was able to keep a small

secret from my family recently. My brother planned to come visit my

Mom over the weekend and it was a lovely surprise. You could have

knocked her over with a feather when he came in the door. It was

nice that my sisters were not angry that I kept his comming a secret

and we all had an enjoyable visit with him.

Kim

>

> Hi Tom,

>

> I faced a similar situation when my mom was dying, she was

diagnosed in November, of 2001, or more acurately was told the

cancer was back. She swore me to secrecy in fact if her dr didn't

call me looking for her she probably wouldn't have told me. In

January when she had the surgery I took her and stayed in the

hospital with her, and kept my mouth shut. When she started

getting sick, I made her call my brother and tell him.

>

> Once she found out exactly how bad it was I was alowed to

contact imediate family (on feb 14th great valentines day present).

When she was getting bad and I was going to put her on the morphine

she told me after she was out of it I could tell the rest of her

friends (she passed Feb 22 in the early am) boy her friends were

mad at me, the first thing they wanted to know was why I didn't tell

anyone, they wanted to be there for her, but what they didn't

realize was that she didn't want them. She wanted to be alone with

her family, and personally I cant blame her. Infact I was the only

one there when she died. I sat there all night waiting because I

couldn't allow her to die alone.

>

> The family and close friends some of them are still mad at me

for not letting them know earlier, but a secret is a secret and she

didn't want me to tell them. I had to carry throught with her

wishes.

>

> Promises work the same way with me. If I make a promise I will

do whatever it is I promise to do. I don't understand how people

can promise things frivioulously, and not keep to there promises.

>

> Beth

[Guest guest]

> " I'm always completely blown away when people reveal secrets. It just

seems like complete sacrilege. Almost beyond my comprehension. So I ask

myself here- why am I like that? "

I feel the same. I look at it like a sacred trust. If someone says,

don't tell anyone, I won't. Not anyone. A few times they meant it was

okay to tell my husband, but I took the 'not anyone' seriously.

Several years ago I forgot someone asked me not to tell something and I

mentioned it casually to someone else. That happened twice with

different people. I felt really bad and so now I make sure I say it old

loud: 'I shouldn't tell anyone?' and make sure I remember.

There are cases when you have to tell, such as when someone says they

want to kill themselves but don't tell anyone, but I'm sure sometimes

it can be a hard decision when to know when to tell.

[Guest guest]

It's good that you honored your mom by keeping her secret and by

keeping her promise.

Tom

Administrator

The family and close friends some of them are still mad at me for not

letting them know earlier, but a secret is a secret and she didn't

want me to tell them. I had to carry throught with her wishes.

[Guest guest]

It's good that you honored your mom by keeping her secret and by

keeping her promise.

Tom

Administrator

The family and close friends some of them are still mad at me for not

letting them know earlier, but a secret is a secret and she didn't

want me to tell them. I had to carry throught with her wishes.

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 8/23/2006 8:00:07 PM Eastern Standard Time, no_reply writes:

It's funny, but in my younger years I woud have taken this as a matter of course. People born, they live, and they die. But I am realizing now as the hair begins to fall out of my scalp and other hairs turn gray that I can die too.

I'm much the same way. I get a little gray in my facial hair and I have noticed I'm not as energetic and agile as I used to be. Little things are coming along like the tooth problems and so forth and I get near panic attacks thinking about going for my physical next year, even though the blood work was always been good, save for cholesterol. Blood Pressure tends to read high, but big surprise there since I'm usually having an anxiety attack every time I go near the doctor's office. However, the eye doctor told me that I had very little plaque build up in my eyes for my age, which is a good sign.

I don't worry so much about death as I worry about some horrible wasting death. Getting something like diabetes, cancer or organ failure scares me far more than death. Now, I don't want to die any more than anyone else, but I just hope its quick, preferably in my sleep or in an honorable fight (meaning defending family, friends or country, not some squabble in a bar).

For a long time I've played Dungeons and Dragons. Lately I've been playing characters that cheat death, or at least death by aging or disease, by taking certain classes. I'd probably take that route in real life too if I had the means and ability. Since we can't, I just try to take the best care of this body as I can.

[Guest guest]

It's fortunate you aren't a psychologist then. Certain things are required to be reported by law. Such as physical abuse, for example. Whrn I worked with the church youth group, the director gave me three situations to let him know about. hurting of self (suicide would fall under this) hurting of others (thinking of someone intending to bring guns into school and unleash a bloodbath-Columbine is a perfect example. Klebold and let everyone know what they would do and NO ONE told) or abuse situations. If need be, he would take action, or if he had to. ravenmagic2003 <ravenmagic2003@...> wrote: Tom wrote: "I keep my AS girlfriend's secrets. If there is something she wants me to know, I listen. If she tells me not to tell anyone else what she just told me, I do not.This is a far cry from what my aunt just did with(out) respect to her husband ... <snip> ..."There is absolutely no reason why something told in confidence to another should be repeated to another unless we're talking a plot to commit a crime (the only reason I can think of for breaching a confidence) and even then, I would think trying to talk reason into the other person's head would still be the first reaction.Tom wrote: " ... <snip> ... one of my uncle's grandkids found out, and is in tears."That is devastating. Now that poor child is going to have that thought in his or her head until your uncle passes on. That little one could have

had many months of happy memories ahead but now they are tainted because the act of breaching a confidence set all of this in motion. And it is unfair to the child if the parents of this child then swear him or her to secrecy. What a horrible burden that would be for any children to carry. I am so sorry this has happened to your uncle and the grandchildren.What do others think of keeping confidences? Are there any circumstances under which you would breach a confidence, and if so, what circumstances would those be?RavenIf you love something, set it free! So it is with books. See what I mean atwww.bookcrossing.com/friend/nheckoblogcritics.orghttp://notesfromnancy.blogspot.com Heckofreelance proofreadernancygailus@...

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[Guest guest]

It's fortunate you aren't a psychologist then. Certain things are required to be reported by law. Such as physical abuse, for example. Whrn I worked with the church youth group, the director gave me three situations to let him know about. hurting of self (suicide would fall under this) hurting of others (thinking of someone intending to bring guns into school and unleash a bloodbath-Columbine is a perfect example. Klebold and let everyone know what they would do and NO ONE told) or abuse situations. If need be, he would take action, or if he had to. ravenmagic2003 <ravenmagic2003@...> wrote: Tom wrote: "I keep my AS girlfriend's secrets. If there is something she wants me to know, I listen. If she tells me not to tell anyone else what she just told me, I do not.This is a far cry from what my aunt just did with(out) respect to her husband ... <snip> ..."There is absolutely no reason why something told in confidence to another should be repeated to another unless we're talking a plot to commit a crime (the only reason I can think of for breaching a confidence) and even then, I would think trying to talk reason into the other person's head would still be the first reaction.Tom wrote: " ... <snip> ... one of my uncle's grandkids found out, and is in tears."That is devastating. Now that poor child is going to have that thought in his or her head until your uncle passes on. That little one could have

had many months of happy memories ahead but now they are tainted because the act of breaching a confidence set all of this in motion. And it is unfair to the child if the parents of this child then swear him or her to secrecy. What a horrible burden that would be for any children to carry. I am so sorry this has happened to your uncle and the grandchildren.What do others think of keeping confidences? Are there any circumstances under which you would breach a confidence, and if so, what circumstances would those be?RavenIf you love something, set it free! So it is with books. See what I mean atwww.bookcrossing.com/friend/nheckoblogcritics.orghttp://notesfromnancy.blogspot.com Heckofreelance proofreadernancygailus@...

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[Guest guest]

So why did you put out in parentheses? That combination is clearly potentially serious. I get the impression your aunt would have had problems trying to deal with on her own. I might have suggested they not say anything until after test results. Then, it might be time to tell their own kids. I find people tell me things knowing I have been in a position to pass them on in a discreet manner.environmental1st2003 <no_reply > wrote: I keep my AS girlfriend's secrets.

If there is something she wants me to know, I listen. If she tells me not to tell anyone else what she just told me, I do not.This is a far cry from what my aunt just did with(out) respect to her husband...It seems my uncle was just diagnosed with leukemia and lung cancer in addition to having possibly had a stroke. How did I find this out? My aunt told my mom. Then my mom told me and my dad. And then mom proceeded to e-mail my sister and some other relavtives. The thing is, my uncle asked my aunt not to tell anyone, including her sisters. He didn't want his relatives, or his in laws, or his kids to worry about him, nor did he want his grandkids to get all worked up about a death that may not occur for quite a while yet.Even though my uncle is still in the hospital, my aunt plans on telling him that his reasoning is stupid, and that everyone ought to know about his "secret" whether he

wants them to or not, that she has already told his secret, and that he can stop being a 67 year old baby about things. Due to my mom's e-mailing, one of my uncle's grandkids found out, and is in tears.I would never dishonor my girlfriend by passing along things she does not want passed on.TomAdministrator If you love something, set it free! So it is with books. See what I mean atwww.bookcrossing.com/friend/nheckoblogcritics.orghttp://notesfromnancy.blogspot.com Heckofreelance proofreadernancygailus@...

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[Guest guest]

In a message dated 8/23/2006 11:46:52 PM Eastern Standard Time, no_reply writes:

I haven't yet lost the agility, but I am more deliberate during physical exertion. I used to be a risk taker when rock climbing, for example, but now I watch more carefully where I put my feet and i try to make sure I have good hand holds.

Fortunately my reflexes are still quick so I usually catch myself when I slip or lose my balance. What I was referring to was that I used to easily be able to hop over the fence around the yard, but now its harder. I've never been much of a physical risk taker, probably because I was a small child and there wasn't a lot to absorb punishment if I messed up. I had friend who did all kinds of wild things that I would never try. A lot of that was probably a biofeedback kind of thing: If I looked at something they did and thought I would hurt myself, slip or whatever, I very often ended up doing just that. The curse of too active of an imagination I guess.

[Guest guest]

What you listed would be exceptions to the rule if one was talking

about children.

Regarding adults, I would strike suicide from the equation since I

beleive it's between a person and their God as to whether or not it

is acceptable to take their own life.

If the adult was abusing others, or planning to go on a killing

spree, I would tell someone in authority.

If the adult was being abused, that is a different story. You can

never REALLY tell who is being abused and who isn't. When I worked

for the consulting firm that serviced non-profits, one of our

clients was a battered women's shelter. What they didn't want to

leak out was that sometimes women burn their own hands on stoves and

bang their heads against the wall and then claim their husbands did

it. This was so that women could get custody of their kids during

divorce cases. Also, sometimes the women would hit men repreatedly.

When the men struck back ONE time in self defense, or to get them to

stop it, the woman reported them.

To my way of thinking, someone who is being abused, if they are an

adult, needs to make their own report to the authorities.

Tom

Administrator

Re: Re: Aspie Love - Keeping Secrets

It's fortunate you aren't a psychologist then. Certain things are

required to be reported by law. Such as physical abuse, for example.

Whrn I worked with the church youth group, the director gave me

three situations to let him know about. hurting of self (suicide

would fall under this) hurting of others (thinking of someone

intending to bring guns into school and unleash a bloodbath-

Columbine is a perfect example. Klebold and let everyone know

what they would do and NO ONE told) or abuse situations. If need be,

he would take action, or if he had to.

[Guest guest]

My aunt and uncle are in their late sixties. My uncle's feeling was

that his medical business was no one else's except his wife's. He's

in the care of doctors. No one else needed to know about his

ailments, and I agree with him.

Tom

Administrator

Re: Aspie Love - Keeping Secrets

So why did you put out in parentheses? That combination is clearly

potentially serious. I get the impression your aunt would have had

problems trying to deal with on her own. I might have suggested they

not say anything until after test results. Then, it might be time to

tell their own kids.

I find people tell me things knowing I have been in a position to

pass them on in a discreet manner.

[Guest guest]

I have to agree with this as well ... no one else needed to know so

it should have stayed between him and his wife like he requested of

her.

Raven

>

> Re: Aspie Love - Keeping Secrets

>

> So why did you put out in parentheses? That combination is clearly

> potentially serious. I get the impression your aunt would have had

> problems trying to deal with on her own. I might have suggested

they

> not say anything until after test results. Then, it might be time

to

> tell their own kids.

>

> I find people tell me things knowing I have been in a position to

> pass them on in a discreet manner.

>

[Guest guest]

I haven't yet lost the agility, but I am more deliberate during

physical exertion. I used to be a risk taker when rock climbing, for

example, but now I watch more carefully where I put my feet and i try

to make sure I have good hand holds.

I guess I realized somewhere along the line that you can't live

forever and lots of nasty stuff can happen when you aren't looking for

it to. Although maybe this has to do with one of my friends falling

off a cliff and dying whilst rock climbing. That makes two close

people I know who did that. One of them died at the park where I

usually rock climb.

Tom

Administrator

I get a little gray in my facial hair and I have noticed I'm not as

energetic and agile as I used to be.

[Guest guest]

I haven't yet lost the agility, but I am more deliberate during

physical exertion. I used to be a risk taker when rock climbing, for

example, but now I watch more carefully where I put my feet and i try

to make sure I have good hand holds.

I guess I realized somewhere along the line that you can't live

forever and lots of nasty stuff can happen when you aren't looking for

it to. Although maybe this has to do with one of my friends falling

off a cliff and dying whilst rock climbing. That makes two close

people I know who did that. One of them died at the park where I

usually rock climb.

Tom

Administrator

I get a little gray in my facial hair and I have noticed I'm not as

energetic and agile as I used to be.

[Guest guest]

>

> Re: Re: Aspie Love - Keeping Secrets

>

> It's fortunate you aren't a psychologist then. Certain things are

> required to be reported by law. Such as physical abuse, for

example.

> Whrn I worked with the church youth group, the director gave me

> three situations to let him know about. hurting of self (suicide

> would fall under this) hurting of others (thinking of someone

> intending to bring guns into school and unleash a bloodbath-

> Columbine is a perfect example. Klebold and let everyone

know

> what they would do and NO ONE told) or abuse situations. If need

be,

> he would take action, or if he had to.

>

[Guest guest]

I just found out today my son's sitter has died. I kind of knew it

was coming, but still sad. I know I am going to have to tell my son

tomorrow and I am unsure on how he will take it :-(

>

> It's funny, but in my younger years I woud have taken this as a

matter

> of course. People born, they live, and they die. But I am

realizing

> now as the hair begins to fall out of my scalp and other hairs turn

> gray that I can die too.

>

> That seems to be the way THIS soon to be death is hitting me.

>

> That may seem shallow, but death is not new to me, having had three

> friends who have committed suicide, two dying of cancer, and one

dying

> after falling off a cliff and dying. One learns to both get used to

> it, and live with it.

>

> Though it is hard sometimes.

>

> Tom

> Administrator

[Guest guest]

I can believe your infant memory but am wondering what you

consider " good times " . I'm glad you are still around, are not

crazy, and have been good to me on this forum. Sane people commit

suicide, it doesn't mean they don't know what they are doing or why

they have chosen to end their life. I think when one is despondent,

depression can make the body as well as the mind completely numb to

better choices or hope for a better life. Who can make life

better? Will life always be a " series of unfortunate events " ? Is

it not the way we perceive the world or dwell on the aweful that

makes us miserable?

Kim

>

> I would disagree based upon the fact that the adult is probably not

> in his/her right mind if he/she wants to kill themselves.

>