Re: Catching Bugs

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 5/26/2006 2:13:15 PM Eastern Standard Time, acsnag@... writes:

Yes I wash my hands after going to the bathroom. As to the shopping cart handles, how long do you suppose those bugs will remain active and on that handle? Hello?Ace

Another pertinent question is how quick is shopping cart turnover? That is how quickly is the cart left and then taken by another person? Many bacteria and viruses might only last a few mintues outside the body, but others can last quite a while. Suffice it to say that they have developed to last long enough to give themselves a chance of spreading to a new host. If they didn't, then there would be little to fear from infectious dieseases. Some viruses and bacteria can also go into a dormant state inside a protective cocoon of sorts (can't think of the proper name). In that state they can remain alive and infectious for tremendous periods of time. Some samples thousands of years old have come back to life.

The duration these things could stay alive on various surfaces is probably out there on the net somewhere if anyone cares to look for it.

[Guest guest]

You go to the bathroom and don't wash your hands afterwards? Ewwww.. Okay, say you went to the ATM. The person who used it before you has a cold or allergies. Someone sneezed and then touched the grocery cart handles. Hello...acsnag@... wrote: VISIGOTH@... wrote:> In a message dated 5/25/2006 12:53:58 PM Eastern Standard Time, > nancygailus@... writes:> > Okay-then just remember one thing: wash hands after using toilet.> it's the biggest and perhaps best way to prevent the spread or> catching of germs. A bottle of Purell helps too just in case your> have to use something many others have touched.This is foolish advice unless of course you are handling food for

other people. Any bug you might catch from going to the toilet you already have. How would it be the otherwise?> > Also keep your hands away from your face while out > until you can wash them.> > The grocery store I usually go to has been keeping a tub of handiwipes > by the baskets. I've been using them for years to wipe down the shopping > cart handle and some other parts. Since doing that, I haven't been sick > nearly as often as I used to. Another store doesn't have that and I'm > sure I've picked up a couple of bugs from there.> I have never seen a need to wipe down a shopping cart handle or anything else. I don't wash my hands just because I am around other people. I still don't catch "bugs" I get the occasional air born bug like maybe once a year but I never worry about being around other people who are coughing or sneezing. I I am going to get sick I will get

sick no matter what precautions I take. All one really needs is a healthy immune system.AceIf you love something, set it free! So it is with books. See what I mean atwww.bookcrossing.com/friend/nheckoblogcritics.orghttp://notesfromnancy.blogspot.com Heckofreelance proofreadernancygailus@...

Be a chatter box. Enjoy free PC-to-PC calls with Messenger with Voice.

[Guest guest]

You go to the bathroom and don't wash your hands afterwards? Ewwww.. Okay, say you went to the ATM. The person who used it before you has a cold or allergies. Someone sneezed and then touched the grocery cart handles. Hello...acsnag@... wrote: VISIGOTH@... wrote:> In a message dated 5/25/2006 12:53:58 PM Eastern Standard Time, > nancygailus@... writes:> > Okay-then just remember one thing: wash hands after using toilet.> it's the biggest and perhaps best way to prevent the spread or> catching of germs. A bottle of Purell helps too just in case your> have to use something many others have touched.This is foolish advice unless of course you are handling food for

other people. Any bug you might catch from going to the toilet you already have. How would it be the otherwise?> > Also keep your hands away from your face while out > until you can wash them.> > The grocery store I usually go to has been keeping a tub of handiwipes > by the baskets. I've been using them for years to wipe down the shopping > cart handle and some other parts. Since doing that, I haven't been sick > nearly as often as I used to. Another store doesn't have that and I'm > sure I've picked up a couple of bugs from there.> I have never seen a need to wipe down a shopping cart handle or anything else. I don't wash my hands just because I am around other people. I still don't catch "bugs" I get the occasional air born bug like maybe once a year but I never worry about being around other people who are coughing or sneezing. I I am going to get sick I will get

sick no matter what precautions I take. All one really needs is a healthy immune system.AceIf you love something, set it free! So it is with books. See what I mean atwww.bookcrossing.com/friend/nheckoblogcritics.orghttp://notesfromnancy.blogspot.com Heckofreelance proofreadernancygailus@...

Be a chatter box. Enjoy free PC-to-PC calls with Messenger with Voice.

[Guest guest]

> > > In a message dated 5/25/2006 12:53:58 PM Eastern Standard Time,

> > > nancygailus@ writes:

> > >

> > > Okay-then just remember one thing: wash hands after using

> toilet.

> > > it's the biggest and perhaps best way to prevent the spread

> or

> > > catching of germs. A bottle of Purell helps too just in

case

> your

> > > have to use something many others have touched.

> >

> > This is foolish advice unless of course you are handling food for

> other

> > people. Any bug you might catch from going to the toilet you

> already

> > have. How would it be the otherwise?

> >

> > >

> > > Also keep your hands away from your face while out

> > > until you can wash them.

> > >

> > > The grocery store I usually go to has been keeping a tub of

> handiwipes

> > > by the baskets. I've been using them for years to wipe down the

> shopping

> > > cart handle and some other parts. Since doing that, I haven't

> been sick

> > > nearly as often as I used to. Another store doesn't have that

> and I'm

> > > sure I've picked up a couple of bugs from there.

> > >

> > I have never seen a need to wipe down a shopping cart handle or

> anything

> > else. I don't wash my hands just because I am around other

people.

> I

> > still don't catch " bugs " I get the occasional air born bug like

> maybe

> > once a year but I never worry about being around other people who

> are

> > coughing or sneezing. I I am going to get sick I will get sick no

> matter

> > what precautions I take. All one really needs is a healthy immune

> system.

> >

> > Ace

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Hecko wrote:

> You go to the bathroom and don't wash your hands afterwards? Ewwww..

> Okay, say you went to the ATM. The person who used it before you has a

> cold or allergies. Someone sneezed and then touched the grocery cart

> handles. Hello...

Yes I wash my hands after going to the bathroom. As to the shopping cart

handles, how long do you suppose those bugs will remain active and on

that handle? Hello?

Ace

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 5/26/2006 5:57:56 PM Eastern Standard Time, drumthis2001@... writes:

Here's yet another example of Genetic engineering on chickens and other animals. When the chickens are genetically modified it makes sense that they wouldn't care whether the chickens had good immune systems or not and that the chickens immune system would be altered. They call it the bird flu but, how can anyone really know for sure? Maybe the only reasons humans are susceptible to H5N1 is because humans are eating genetically modified foods that have been shown to cause systemic disturbances. Animals have all sorts of diseases which aren't contractible to humans.

But some diseases do jump species. The regular swine flu travels back and forth between humans and pigs and sometimes other species as well. The virus seems to have taken advantage of the domestication of pigs to go back and forth between species so it always has a host. Salmanella can jump between pet birds and lizards and humans, and is can also be caught by eating poultry products.

The 1918 Great Flu epidemic probably also came from birds. That episode killed some 20 million people worldwide at a time well before genetic alteration. WHile genetic alteration may cause some problems, I don't think it will have a hand in the new Bird Flu. It has primarily arisen in Asia where that is not as widespread, but close human to bird contact is very common. It is that contact that is more important in the development and transmission of disease between bird and human than genetically altering the bird itself.

The other greater problem is the overuse of anitbiotics. Almost all food animals in the West are given huge doses of antibiotics and other drugs from day one. This only gives rise to stronger strains of bacteria. It would be better to allow some animals to die, perhaps even a large number, from disease than to give them so much medicine. Perhaps being able to write off the loss on taxes at a higher rate would help discourage the use of antibiotics except when necessary.

[Guest guest]

One also needs to keep in mind that more contageous diseases may be

coming around soon. Two or three days ago, 7 family members in

Indonesia were believed to have been wiped out by the first ever human

to human form of the bird flu.

(Scientists are still trying to verify whether it was human to human,

however.)

Tom

Administrator

A healthy immune system is a good thing, but it is not infallible.

While one doesn't need to go overboard, there is also no reason not to

take sensible precautions, not only for yourself, but also common

courtesy for others as well.

[Guest guest]

Here's yet another example of Genetic engineering on chickens and other animals. When the chickens are genetically modified it makes sense that they wouldn't care whether the chickens had good immune systems or not and that the chickens immune system would be altered. They call it the bird flu but, how can anyone really know for sure? Maybe the only reasons humans are susceptible to H5N1 is because humans are eating genetically modified foods that have been shown to cause systemic disturbances. Animals have all sorts of diseases which aren't contractible to humans. environmental1st2003 <no_reply > wrote: One also needs to keep in mind that more contageous diseases may be coming around soon. Two or three days ago, 7 family members in Indonesia were believed to have been wiped out by the first ever human to human form of

the bird flu.(Scientists are still trying to verify whether it was human to human, however.)TomAdministratorA healthy immune system is a good thing, but it is not infallible. While one doesn't need to go overboard, there is also no reason not to take sensible precautions, not only for yourself, but also common courtesy for others as well.

How low will we go? Check out Messenger’s low PC-to-Phone call rates.

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 5/26/2006 10:32:23 PM Eastern Standard Time, drumthis2001@... writes:

History has not caught up with recent medical findings and there is no way to know except through trial and error unless it is a case of an engineered bug similar to AIDS.

AIDS isn't engineered. Researchers have recently traced it to a species of monkey on the west coast of Africa.

[Guest guest]

Yes, some diseases do jump the barrier to human. There are bacteria in the digestive tracts of dogs and cats that humans would die from if not given antibiotics and their acidic bodies are designed to be able to eat rotting food. Chickens are often fed their own kind in the form of chicken meal. The leftovers that aren't used such as the bones etc.. are ground and fed to the chickens. Cannibals have been shown to have negative consequences from their practices. Inbreeding chickens I thought had occured in the 1900's. Yes, antibiotics are bad for the animals. Their immune systems are screwed up and they don't feed the animals proper nutrients and they kill the animals before they exhaust themselves from simply breathing. Yes, the bacteria have grown stronger. Who is to say that the antibiotics aren't the problem or not the problem? Until I see it under a microscope from a dead human body from a person I knew in Asia who handled chickens and had all the signs of Influenza,

I'm simply not going to believe all the hype. History has not caught up with recent medical findings and there is no way to know except through trial and error unless it is a case of an engineered bug similar to AIDS. VISIGOTH@... wrote: In a message dated 5/26/2006 5:57:56 PM Eastern Standard Time, drumthis2001@... writes: Here's yet another example of Genetic engineering on chickens and other animals. When the chickens are genetically modified it makes sense that they wouldn't care whether the chickens had good immune systems or not and that the

chickens immune system would be altered. They call it the bird flu but, how can anyone really know for sure? Maybe the only reasons humans are susceptible to H5N1 is because humans are eating genetically modified foods that have been shown to cause systemic disturbances. Animals have all sorts of diseases which aren't contractible to humans. But some diseases do jump species. The regular swine flu travels back and forth between humans and pigs and sometimes other species as well. The virus seems to have taken advantage of the domestication of pigs to go back and forth between species so it always has a host. Salmanella can jump between pet birds and lizards and humans, and is can also be caught by eating poultry products. The 1918 Great Flu epidemic probably also came from birds. That episode killed some 20 million people worldwide at a time well before genetic alteration. WHile genetic

alteration may cause some problems, I don't think it will have a hand in the new Bird Flu. It has primarily arisen in Asia where that is not as widespread, but close human to bird contact is very common. It is that contact that is more important in the development and transmission of disease between bird and human than genetically altering the bird itself. The other greater problem is the overuse of anitbiotics. Almost all food animals in the West are given huge doses of antibiotics and other drugs from day one. This only gives rise to stronger strains of bacteria. It would be better to allow some animals to die, perhaps even a large number, from disease than to give them so much medicine. Perhaps being able to write off the loss on taxes at a higher rate would help discourage the use of antibiotics except when necessary.

Be a chatter box. Enjoy free PC-to-PC calls with Messenger with Voice.

[Guest guest]

That's only speculation just as conspiracy theories are only speculation. If one sees it under a microscope and knows the history of the particular species of monkey, every possible pathogenic organism in that area, knows where the first AIDS case truly happened and can pinpoint every subatomic particle within the form of AIDS that they have found then they can be the authority on where AIDS came from. There are mutated forms of AIDS where people have been infected but didn't die for whatever reason. I believe one of the cases was in Florida. People will take a generic explanation for just about anything these days and will attack anyone who is skeptical. In reality, no one knows except for the team of scientists who found it or the team who engineered it. Everyone else has to rely on what they say which doesn't matter anyway because powerful people in the world can do whatever they want without anybody doing anything to change the diabolical outcome. There are so many

distractors such as TV, video games and sports that no one cares to think about any of these dieseases if it's not affecting them personally and even then, some people won't be able to think in that manner. I'm not saying it's an ability to question anything and then explain why exactly it's wrong and I'm also saying that people who go along with modern hysteria and explanations that aren't even plausible don't have any ability to see the core event of any outbreak either. It's microscopic and we're on the verge of being able to monitor these organisms in real time which will definitely change things. It might take a hundred years. Obviously, science and humanity are on a move toward the microscopic and the macroscopic will take a backseat. VISIGOTH@... wrote: In a message dated 5/26/2006 10:32:23 PM Eastern Standard Time, drumthis2001@... writes: History has not caught up with recent medical findings and there is no way to know except through trial and error unless it is a case of an engineered bug similar to AIDS. AIDS isn't engineered. Researchers have recently traced it to a species of monkey on the west coast of Africa.

[Guest guest]

Kim wrote:

> The risk of developing active

> disease is greatest in the first year after infection, but active

> disease often does not occur until many years later.

A long set of statistics but ...... the chance of contacting TB in North

America is almost none existent. That is really the only statistic that

means anything to me.

Ace.

[Guest guest]

I can get a bit obsessed thinking about such things if I am not

careful. There have been times in past where I kind of started

getting a bit to obsessive with washing my hands - to the point they

were getting sore.

It is like I worry about taps - germs on taps - the door out of the

public toilet after I have washed my hands - I have seen others leave

without washing their hands. Touching any door handle, shaking hands -

I have to not focus on it too much or I become obsessive about such.

> >

> " Going into details with this could be rather disgusting. However,

> I'll

> > mention a few. "

>

> You're like me. I think in detail of all the possiblities. That's

how

> I became germophobic. You gave me a few more, oh dear. I still

wonder

> if we should go outside, dig a hole and cover it up. Nature's

> cleaners would take care of everything. Of course, 'civilization'

> makes that difficult or impossible in most cases.

> >

> > " A healthy immune system is a good thing, but it is not

infallible.

> While one

> > doesn't need to go overboard, there is also no reason not to take

> sensible

> > precautions, not only for yourself, but also common courtesy for

> others as

> > well. "

>

> Good point about the immune system. And if you don't take care,

> others with a not so great immune system will catch it from you

while

> you just walk away well. Where my husband is from, people rarely

get

> colds or flu. They are more careful than Americans with

cleanliness.

> Though they are more health conscious and eat better and have less

> polluted surroundings, much of the reason is due to the care they

> take in washing their hands and being clean. If everyone does it,

> there are no germs to spread.

>

[Guest guest]

I have been horrified when visiting hospitals to see people ignoring

the wash hands sign when arriving and leaving. There are big signs

everywhere on some wards and yet people just either ignore or are

blind to them.

I actually enjoyed using the alcohol wash :-) weird sensation, no

water or towels required - I had to explain it to my son who was also

with me visiting a relative. I had to explain to him what it was,

it's purpose and how it felt - he was worried it would make him

drunk :-)

> >

> >

> > " Infectious Diseases such as methicillin resistant staphylococcus

> > aureus, which my mother in law died from, can be passed on

through

> > contact from persons who do not wash their hands. "

>

> " TB is a chronic bacterial infection. It is spread through the air

> > and usually infects the lungs, although other organs and parts of

> > the body can be involved as well. "

>

> Good points. If you ever find yourself in the hospital, the risk of

> staph and other infections is high, especially because you are

> probably in a weakened state and it's everywhere--they've even

found

> it on doctors' ties. There's a real problem with Clostridium

> Difficule too, which is often caught or carried out of the hospital

> by someone who then touches something. I got it from a salad bar.

If

> someone had washed their hands and taken care I wouldn't have

gotten

> it. It's even more dangerous because a drug resistant form has

> developed thanks to antibiotics being proscribed in numerous doses

> for it, though it doesn't respond to antibiotics anyway. Oh the

irony.

>

> After the drug resistant bacteria come the engineered ones. Scary

> indeed. Anyone hear of Morgellons, which btw, is transmissible?

>

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 5/27/2006 4:37:08 AM Eastern Standard Time, julie.stevenson16@... writes:

I think I heard there was an outbreak of bird flu after the war in the UK.

The Epidemic after WWI started in France. From there it infected troops who were heading home after the war and was thus spread all around the world fairly quickly. Had they held up the troops for a month or two, that might have been avoided, but political considerations wouldn't allow it.

[Guest guest]

I think I heard there was an outbreak of bird flu after the war in

the UK.

Also a couple of years back there was foot and mouth here, large

parts of countryside were closed off - seemed weird and eirre, also

larger numbers of animals were culled. It was kind of like something

one would see on some sort of horror sci-fi programme.

>

>

> In a message dated 5/26/2006 5:57:56 PM Eastern Standard Time,

> drumthis2001@... writes:

>

> Here's yet another example of Genetic engineering on chickens and

other

> animals. When the chickens are genetically modified it makes sense

that they

> wouldn't care whether the chickens had good immune systems or not

and that the

> chickens immune system would be altered. They call it the bird flu

but, how can

> anyone really know for sure? Maybe the only reasons humans are

susceptible

> to H5N1 is because humans are eating genetically modified foods

that have been

> shown to cause systemic disturbances. Animals have all sorts of

diseases

> which aren't contractible to humans.

>

>

>

> But some diseases do jump species. The regular swine flu travels

back and

> forth between humans and pigs and sometimes other species as well.

The virus

> seems to have taken advantage of the domestication of pigs to go

back and forth

> between species so it always has a host. Salmanella can jump

between pet

> birds and lizards and humans, and is can also be caught by eating

poultry

> products.

>

> The 1918 Great Flu epidemic probably also came from birds. That

episode

> killed some 20 million people worldwide at a time well before

genetic alteration.

> WHile genetic alteration may cause some problems, I don't think it

will have

> a hand in the new Bird Flu. It has primarily arisen in Asia where

that is

> not as widespread, but close human to bird contact is very common.

It is that

> contact that is more important in the development and transmission

of disease

> between bird and human than genetically altering the bird itself.

>

> The other greater problem is the overuse of anitbiotics. Almost all

food

> animals in the West are given huge doses of antibiotics and other

drugs from day

> one. This only gives rise to stronger strains of bacteria. It would

be better

> to allow some animals to die, perhaps even a large number, from

disease than

> to give them so much medicine. Perhaps being able to write off the

loss on

> taxes at a higher rate would help discourage the use of

antibiotics except

> when necessary.

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

I just cannot understand why they feed animals their own kind - it is

clearly wrong! Also all the other rubbish I have heard they are fed -

it is horrific - I don't understand it, although I know it has much

to do with money and greed, but it is sad indeed :-(

PS My I am posting a lot this morn' don't worry folks got to go out

later and making up for lost time - seem to go through phases of

hardly posting and then all of a sudden loads of posts :-)

Sick of me yet? :-)

>

> Yes, some diseases do jump the barrier to human. There are bacteria

in the digestive tracts of dogs and cats that humans would die from

if not given antibiotics and their acidic bodies are designed to be

able to eat rotting food. Chickens are often fed their own kind in

the form of chicken meal. The leftovers that aren't used such as the

bones etc.. are ground and fed to the chickens. Cannibals have been

shown to have negative consequences from their practices. Inbreeding

chickens I thought had occured in the 1900's. Yes, antibiotics are

bad for the animals. Their immune systems are screwed up and they

don't feed the animals proper nutrients and they kill the animals

before they exhaust themselves from simply breathing. Yes, the

bacteria have grown stronger. Who is to say that the antibiotics

aren't the problem or not the problem? Until I see it under a

microscope from a dead human body from a person I knew in Asia who

handled chickens and had all the signs of Influenza,

> I'm simply not going to believe all the hype. History has not

caught up with recent medical findings and there is no way to know

except through trial and error unless it is a case of an engineered

bug similar to AIDS.

>

[Guest guest]

Drug resistant TB is on the increase in the UK, how long do you think

it will take to spread?

> > The risk of developing active

> > disease is greatest in the first year after infection, but active

> > disease often does not occur until many years later.

>

> A long set of statistics but ...... the chance of contacting TB in

North

> America is almost none existent. That is really the only statistic

that

> means anything to me.

>

> Ace.

>

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 5/27/2006 11:20:34 AM Eastern Standard Time, acsnag@... writes:

If I see a messy seat I will clean it before I sit down. If I see a messy person leave a stall I will choose a different stall. That is all it has taken me to remain relatively healthy.If it was as drastic as you make it sound I should be dead by now.Ace

Most of those diseases aren't lethal. It is interesting that most ailments caused by viruses and bacteria aren't fatal, just unpleasant. There is a simple reason for that: if a germ kills its host too quickly, it decreases its chance of spreading to another host, thus it will go extinct. Ebola, horrible as it is, is hard to transmit and also very fast and nearly 100% fatal. Because of this, occurrances run their course rapidly.

Most bugs and annoyances were get, including from restrooms, would not be fatal. They would be the kind meant to spread from host to host without killing them. If the immune system is healthy, it won't be much of a problem. If it is compromised for some reason, including having had to fight off so many little things that it is worn down, then it can be more serious.

That said, there is a small possibility that you could contract something more serious, like cholera or dysentary, etc. Those can very easily be fatal, though they are rare in the in US, they do still crop up many times every year.

I didn't mean to imply that bad hygene would be fatal, rather just that it does spread germs and disease. If this wasn't the case, then we wouldn't need plumbing and sanitation at all because it would be just fine to go wheere ever you are like animals.

[Guest guest]

I understand and it is very unlikely to be infected with TB unless

your around someone who has it for a long time. I'm not a worry

wart when it comes to germs but will avoid becomming sick if I can

by washing with soap and water after being at the kids school, out

shopping, or having been in a crowded place. This seems to be a

reasonable prevention method and being a people watcher, I've seen

too many nose pickers, butt scratchers, teeth pickers, etc.. to be

lax about washing.

Kim

> > The risk of developing active

> > disease is greatest in the first year after infection, but active

> > disease often does not occur until many years later.

>

> A long set of statistics but ...... the chance of contacting TB in

North

> America is almost none existent. That is really the only statistic

that

> means anything to me.

>

> Ace.

>

[Guest guest]

greebohere wrote:

> I have been horrified when visiting hospitals to see people ignoring

> the wash hands sign when arriving and leaving.

I have only once seen a facility that had hand wash stations at the

entrances. That was a seniors facility at the height of last years cold

season. I have been in several hospitals over past few years, only once

was overnight, but none of them had hand wash signs or stations at the

entrance.

Ace

[Guest guest]

greebohere wrote:

> Drug resistant TB is on the increase in the UK, how long do you think

> it will take to spread?

Spread, or spread where it might affect me? Searching TB UK tells me

that the increase in the UK has stopped.

I think the point to remember is that nature will always win. The world

population is having difficulty sustaining it's self. Nature steps in.

If it's not earth quacks or tidal waves it will be disease. There is

nothing we can do to stop it except to stop bringing more children into

the world. It is all cause and effect. This why the most serious and

persistent diseases usually happen in crowded, overpopulated places.

I have done my part. I stopped producing children when I was 24. I

father two children and now I am doing my part to stabilize the world

population.

Ace

[Guest guest]

VISIGOTH@... wrote:

> Going into details with this could be rather disgusting. However, I'll

> mention a few.

>

> First off is the seat itself. If a person before you was messy, then you

> could get something from it, especially a skin type disease.

If I see a messy seat I will clean it before I sit down. If I see a

messy person leave a stall I will choose a different stall. That is all

it has taken me to remain relatively healthy.

If it was as drastic as you make it sound I should be dead by now.

Ace

[Guest guest]

Both :-(

I have been horrified when

visiting hospitals to see people ignoring

> the wash hands sign when arriving and leaving. There are big signs

> everywhere on some wards and yet people just either ignore or are

> blind to them.

>

[Guest guest]

VISIGOTH@... wrote:

> I didn't mean to imply that bad hygene would be fatal, rather just that

> it does spread germs and disease. If this wasn't the case, then we

> wouldn't need plumbing and sanitation at all because it would be just

> fine to go wheere ever you are like animals.

>

That's a rather simplistic and unrealistic view. If we could just go

wherever we wanted there would be human excrement around stinking up the

environment and we would be stepping in it like we did dog poop before

scoop laws. Plumbing has much more to do with our desire for a clean

space to live in. It has much less to do with actual health. After all

we don't get sick from our own excrement. We already have whatever germs

or bugs we might excrete.

Ace