Re: Psychic self-defence

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 3/20/2006 10:53:16 AM Eastern Standard Time, inglori@... writes:

I personally would still not use magic even in self-defence, and don't like psychic methods whether it be psychic spying by CIA or anything else, but then I guess I haven't been under the same type of attacks as you, so I don't consider myself in a position to judge. Unlike most who dabble in these things out of curiosity, you seem to at least know what you're doing and be willing to pay whatever price there may be.I do agree that directed praying like you described is a psychic attack that is violating free will, even though they probably had the best of intentions. I think such actions are abusing the power and spirit of prayer.Just a question... if you know prayer to be that potent, why not pray for protection yourself, instead of doing magic rituals? Wouldn't that be a lot safer, for everyone involved?Inger

A .40 pistol under the nose also works wonders to get people to stop using magic against you, if you know who's doing it. I think that is why some people use magic first place, because they won't stand up to the person face to face.

You do have a point. Christianity teaches never to pray for bad things to happen to people. You can pray for someone to stop bothering you, but not for anything bad to happen to them.

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 3/20/2006 6:03:34 PM Eastern Standard Time, csparania@... writes:

And while they usually know better than me, they also don't like to beconstantly called on, because unlike the Christian god, they usuallyprefer us to do our own work and pay our own price. If we rely on themit means we have very little consequences, if any, if we get what wewant. Prayers other than for guidance or help on the path would belike running to our mom all the time when we should act as peoplegrowing up.

This is precisely what God wants us to do. That is miracles and diving intervention are so rare. If they were commonplace, there would be no need to do anything but pray. Instead, we have to apply ourselves, our own abilities and talents. If we do well, we will be rewarded through our effort, if not we won't be. If we do wrong, then we pay a price.

Christians don't pray like "running home to mom." So do, but they don't understand what prayer is really about.

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 3/20/2006 6:45:44 PM Eastern Standard Time, csparania@... writes:

No one needs to be frightened of me unless they become a thread to meor want to harm someone else without reason. I can't stand any type ofinjustice or bullying behaviour. Lwaxy

Now this is interesting. Using magic or threat of it against another isn't bullying?

For that matter, this could be taken as a threat against anyone on this board who might make you angry. After all, you could use your magic against them from any distance whereas the rest of us have to get toe to toe to do that. Instead, with magic you can attack without the poor sap even knowing what's happening or why.

I still dont the logic of doing harm to someone without them knowing the reason why. It doesn't make sense at all because the person won't possibly learn anything if they don't know why they are being attacked. A mugger who gets shot by his victim knows why it happened, but a person who may have slighted you suddenly finds his health going downhill for something of so little consquence he probably doesn't even remember it?

Small wonder people used to burn witches.

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 3/20/2006 6:59:27 PM Eastern Standard Time, csparania@... writes:

Hmm... my more annoying Christian aunties' solution to everything thatwould require effort is "let's wait and pray." And they manage to getwhat they want 90% of the time. And this includes weird things likegeting a car with servo control to getting the windows fixed somehow. Lwaxy

Did they really or was it coincidence? it has been my experience that most prayers aren't answered, especially the selfish ones. I've not had much luck over trivial things, though wasn't raised to waste prayer on such things.

It is also not also about what the person praying wants, but what they need. Sometimes my prayers have been answered in ways I didn't much like. Afterwards, however, I could see the wisdom in the way things worked out.

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 3/20/2006 6:59:27 PM Eastern Standard Time, csparania@... writes:

Hmm... my more annoying Christian aunties' solution to everything thatwould require effort is "let's wait and pray." And they manage to getwhat they want 90% of the time. And this includes weird things likegeting a car with servo control to getting the windows fixed somehow. Lwaxy

Did they really or was it coincidence? it has been my experience that most prayers aren't answered, especially the selfish ones. I've not had much luck over trivial things, though wasn't raised to waste prayer on such things.

It is also not also about what the person praying wants, but what they need. Sometimes my prayers have been answered in ways I didn't much like. Afterwards, however, I could see the wisdom in the way things worked out.

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 3/20/2006 7:11:50 PM Eastern Standard Time, csparania@... writes:

Or you could send me some virus or whatever... what's this supposed tomean now?

I really don't care if they learn something as long as they aren'ttroubling me anymore.

These two represent my problem. I don't know how to send viruses and wouldn't do so anyway. But again, there are other ways to make a person stop bothering than using magic. You ignore them, report them to the police, fight them. I just don't see the point in doing it in such a way that they don't know why. So what if bad things happen to them. If they can't connect it to you, why should they stop bothering you.

Am I supposed to take this as a death threat? I think I do.

No, that's a threat, particularly because I have not means to affect you. You're in Germany aren't you? Well, that's an ocean away from here, I don't know my way around or even what city you are in, or where in that city. For that matter I don't even know what you look like. You couldn't be safer from me. On the other hand, you could very well use your magic, not knowing where I am FROM Germany and affect me. Who is the greater threat to whom?

As for people burning witches, that's merely an historic observation. No doubt many of those burned threatened some kind of ill on someone and then when something odd and unpleasant happened to them, well, the witch did it with magic. If she did to him, she could do it to any of us next. So, burn the witch so she can't hurt anyone else.

If you took my comment as a threat, that was not intent. Rather I was merely pointing out how, with all you have said about magic and all, that it could well go a long way to explaining why witches ended up burned.

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 3/20/2006 7:21:29 PM Eastern Standard Time, csparania@... writes:

If this is the case, why do you pray? Is it more to find an answeryourself?

I pray to build a closer relationship with God. I also pray for protection of my health, my lands and my people. If there is something I want, I may ask for it, but only if it is not something trivial. For trivial things like possessions or whatever, I don't bother praying for but try to find some way to get it on my own.

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 3/20/2006 7:55:31 PM Eastern Standard Time, csparania@... writes:

You are part of a religious group which is radical and has been knownto pointlessly kill and torture people. I have every reason to bescared of your religion. And one of a group starting with such ideasoften means it spreads fast. I think fundamental Christians are everybit as much a thread than fundementalist Moslems. If not more, becausethey aren't recognozed as a thread by most.

And I'm poiting out that with the powerful, politically well versedchurch behind you, you are much more of a threat to us.

And what I'm the Pope? Currently I don't even belong to a church, so my ability to influence it in any fashion is zero, especially in regards to starting a new Inquisition. Therefore saying that I have the church behind and I am a threat in that way is ridiculous.

You also assume much calling me a fundamentalist. I am not. As a matter of fact, I consider the fundamentalists to very odd people.

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 3/20/2006 8:02:46 PM Eastern Standard Time, csparania@... writes:

> I pray to build a closer relationship with God. OK, but if you DO get a closer relationship, doesn't that mean yourprayer was answered? In this case maybe more prayers get answered thanyou think. Lwaxy

This is a case of not knowing if it has or not. Its not like I have had a world shaking change like suddenly being able to heal the sick or something like that. I'll find out one day I suppose.

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 3/20/2006 8:15:42 PM Eastern Standard Time, kbtoni@... writes:

You'll have to excuse me but I am a lowly NT. I have no IDEA what a 'cosmic string' is...I'm telling you as a Christian that prayer is NOT magic. God is not santa claus, you don't pray to him 'to get what you want' or to get rid of annoyances in your life.

In astronomy a cosmic string is a piece of superdense matter, like a black hole, but it is a line of material stretching across space like a giant spiderweb. However, I don't think that is what is meant here.

[Guest guest]

> I do agree that directed praying like you described is a psychic

attack that

> is violating free will, even though they probably had the best of

> intentions. I think such actions are abusing the power and spirit of

prayer.

Yes, and badly so. In my own pagan traditions, it's strictly forbidden

to use prayers and thus the power of the Goddess/God and their

incarnations to further your own goal like that. You may use prayer in

rituals, but only as tribute or asking for support, not drawing on

someone else's power. It would harm your relation with your deities.

Of course in the end, it's never someone else's power, but I still

like the clear cut rule.

> Just a question... if you know prayer to be that potent, why not

pray for

> protection yourself, instead of doing magic rituals? Wouldn't that

be a lot

> safer, for everyone involved?

It is the same thing in the end, magic is magic, no matter what it is

called (I actually really usually call it the Force because magic or

magick always sounds too much like fantasy RPGs and nowadays even many

people who want to start down the Pagan paths do not have any clear

cut concept as to what it means) is always the same universal energy.

The difference is that, unless you do a reflective meditation like in

Buddhism, prayers refer to a suspected outside presence to be able to

access the universal power network/string net for lack of better words.

For one, if you aren't very sure of what you pray for or who you pray

to, the results can get even more whacky than with self dependent

magic. The entities you are connecting with may not agree with what

you are trying to do, and if you allow them too much influence you'll

get the wrong or undesired result.

And while they usually know better than me, they also don't like to be

constantly called on, because unlike the Christian god, they usually

prefer us to do our own work and pay our own price. If we rely on them

it means we have very little consequences, if any, if we get what we

want. Prayers other than for guidance or help on the path would be

like running to our mom all the time when we should act as people

growing up.

Then some type of prayers, especially mass prayers, tend to take on

their own life. Many minds connecting, and instead of the prayer

energy being dorected outward, it's like a caleidoscope of thoughts

and wants echoing around and occassionally causing bad stuff, like the

prayer attacks.

I will never forget the first church of my Ex-husband, they had a

powerful prayer group but never realized when they got people

" speaking in tongues " they more often then not had a very dark entity

present just making fun of them because they had absolutely no idea

how to control this power. And because I seem to have been the only

one noticing it, it tried to converse with me. At that time, I was

sooo not interested. Nowadays I'd likely follow along to see what it

wanted and probably get it to leave.

I almost never pray, it's just not my thing, and when I do, it's

usually in the Buddhist way, as in praying to my own Buddha Nature in

the end, because we're all one anyway.

I don't always use rituals for magical work either, for several

reasons but that would lead too far to explain here. And most rituals

I do are only important for myself.

Lwaxy

[Guest guest]

> This scares me, Lwaxy, because my stepmother uses magic to fight her

> enemies, including my father's children (me included), and has a

> spell cast over him to keep him under her control.

I seriously doubt SHE has him under control. From what I gathered from

your other post, it's much more likely she's using outside power. I

don't know the situation, of course, but it seriously looks like that

woman has no school or tradion, nor an idea what she is really doing.

It reminds me more of kids playing with dangerous objects and others

edging them on.

Ever tried to get help in this matter?

How does one,

> anyone, define an 'enemy'?

I suppose everyone has a different definition of it. I, for one, never

had a definition for it until someone in 5th class was trying to bully

me and I didn't get why in the world wasn't this brat leaving me

alone. He did after I'd beaten him up. So in my definition an enemy is

someone who tries to destroy things for you or yourself, without you

having given them a reason, doesn't allow you to reach your or your

friend's goals out of spite or meanness, constantly talks bad about

you and all such stuff.

I tried to get along with her and he is my

> father so I have some right to him (as little as he himself

concedes.) My stepmother is evil, so she may be an exception in your

definition,

> but still--we are her enemies because we come between her and her

> having my father all to herself.

Sounds like that woman has a mental issue with possessiveness (ow,

lots of s) among other things.

If a human is allowed magic,

> couldn't it easily be misused? Your statement makes me very

> frightened of you and I will be sure not to cross you.

Anything can be essentially misused. In the 80s, we had the

Hammer-Killer in my area. Does that mean no one should use hammers?

You can even kill someone with a fork, now shall we all eat with our

fingers again? We now have this discussion about disgusting fanfic,

does this mean no one should write any stories anymore? And for the

record, I generally abhor fanfic with kinky sexual stories about ST

and SW and LotR characters. It taints what the original stands for.

No one needs to be frightened of me unless they become a thread to me

or want to harm someone else without reason. I can't stand any type of

injustice or bullying behaviour.

Lwaxy

[Guest guest]

> Christians don't pray like " running home to mom. " So do, but they

don't

> understand what prayer is really about.

Hmm... my more annoying Christian aunties' solution to everything that

would require effort is " let's wait and pray. " And they manage to get

what they want 90% of the time. And this includes weird things like

geting a car with servo control to getting the windows fixed somehow.

Lwaxy

[Guest guest]

> Now this is interesting. Using magic or threat of it against another

isn't

> bullying?

Uh... HOOW can it EVER be bullying to defend yourself? That's

illogical times 10.

> For that matter, this could be taken as a threat against anyone on

this

> board who might make you angry. After all, you could use your magic

against them

> from any distance whereas the rest of us have to get toe to toe to

do that.

> Instead, with magic you can attack without the poor sap even knowing

what's

> happening or why.

Or you could send me some virus or whatever... what's this supposed to

mean now?

>

> I still dont the logic of doing harm to someone without them knowing

the

> reason why. It doesn't make sense at all because the person won't

possibly learn

> anything if they don't know why they are being attacked.

I really don't care if they learn something as long as they aren't

troubling me anymore.

A mugger who gets

> shot by his victim knows why it happened, but a person who may have

slighted

> you suddenly finds his health going downhill for something of so

little

> consquence he probably doesn't even remember it?

Uh, if something has had little consequence, why would anyone bother

to waste energy on it? This makes no sense.

> Small wonder people used to burn witches.

Am I supposed to take this as a death threat? I think I do.

Lwaxy

[Guest guest]

> Now this is interesting. Using magic or threat of it against another

isn't

> bullying?

Uh... HOOW can it EVER be bullying to defend yourself? That's

illogical times 10.

> For that matter, this could be taken as a threat against anyone on

this

> board who might make you angry. After all, you could use your magic

against them

> from any distance whereas the rest of us have to get toe to toe to

do that.

> Instead, with magic you can attack without the poor sap even knowing

what's

> happening or why.

Or you could send me some virus or whatever... what's this supposed to

mean now?

>

> I still dont the logic of doing harm to someone without them knowing

the

> reason why. It doesn't make sense at all because the person won't

possibly learn

> anything if they don't know why they are being attacked.

I really don't care if they learn something as long as they aren't

troubling me anymore.

A mugger who gets

> shot by his victim knows why it happened, but a person who may have

slighted

> you suddenly finds his health going downhill for something of so

little

> consquence he probably doesn't even remember it?

Uh, if something has had little consequence, why would anyone bother

to waste energy on it? This makes no sense.

> Small wonder people used to burn witches.

Am I supposed to take this as a death threat? I think I do.

Lwaxy

[Guest guest]

> Then maybe you could try 'their' way instead of magic...Unless you get

> everything you want and need through magic, but if that were the case

> then you wouldn't need magic, right?

Wrong. They still use magic all the same, they just call it different.

There is no difference in the universal energetic truth, the strings

are all the same, by any other name.

Asides, I am following my own tradition and not someone elses, period.

Lwaxy

[Guest guest]

Wrong. They still use magic all the same, they just call it

different. No, YOU call it different.Prayer is NOT magic. What

strings do Christians have in your opinion?

>

>

> > Then maybe you could try 'their' way instead of magic...Unless

you get

> > everything you want and need through magic, but if that were the

case

> > then you wouldn't need magic, right?

>

>

> There is no difference in the universal energetic truth, the

strings

> are all the same, by any other name.

>

> Asides, I am following my own tradition and not someone elses,

period.

>

> Lwaxy

>

[Guest guest]

> These two represent my problem. I don't know how to send viruses and

> wouldn't do so anyway.

Nor do I, really, but there are people out there who know how. But I

still wouldn't feel threatened.

But again, there are other ways to make a person stop

> bothering than using magic.

No, in many cases, there isn't.

You ignore them,

Uh, great, ignore people harming you. Yes, GREAT idea. Watch them

destroying your life, get you fired from your job etc... great idea.

report them to the police,

Err yeah lol Because the police will care about work place politics or

neighbour conflicts or clubs or bad rumours.

fight them.

That's precisely what I do.

> I just don't see the point in doing it in such a way that they don't

know

> why. So what if bad things happen to them. If they can't connect it

to you, why

> should they stop bothering you.

Because I'll make them to. They will stop because they'll suddenly

want to stop. No more rumours, no more work place politics crap, no

more stupid comments.

> No, that's a threat, particularly because I have not means to affect

you.

You are part of a religious group which is radical and has been known

to pointlessly kill and torture people. I have every reason to be

scared of your religion. And one of a group starting with such ideas

often means it spreads fast. I think fundamental Christians are every

bit as much a thread than fundementalist Moslems. If not more, because

they aren't recognozed as a thread by most.

.. No

> doubt many of those burned threatened some kind of ill on someone

No, usually they just followed the old ways and used their herbal

knowledge without caring for the Christian god.

> If you took my comment as a threat, that was not intent. Rather I

was merely

> pointing out how, with all you have said about magic and all, that

it could

> well go a long way to explaining why witches ended up burned.

And I'm poiting out that with the powerful, politically well versed

church behind you, you are much more of a threat to us.

Lwaxy

[Guest guest]

> I pray to build a closer relationship with God.

OK, but if you DO get a closer relationship, doesn't that mean your

prayer was answered? In this case maybe more prayers get answered than

you think.

Lwaxy

[Guest guest]

No, YOU call it different.Prayer is NOT magic. What

> strings do Christians have in your opinion?

>

I don't call it different. I call it both the same energy. The same

magic.

And Christians use the same cosmic strings as everyone else. There is

only one type.

Lwaxy

[Guest guest]

Persecutory delusions, generalized archetypical statements,

non-specific such as case by individual or certain group, instead

generalized stereotype of a large number in suggestion. Broadened

claims of fundamentalists being some sort of threat, yet is it only

those that happen to be of X belief that are of a threat not those

whom are necessarily fundimentalists

However fundamentalism goes from extreme to those that just believe as

it is said. It is why the generalized archetype of the not so

sub-group to religion type is not logically conclusive within any

evidentiary standard.

The topic seems insane, my apologies but when my studies were

completed I knew of psychic self defense as something entirely of mind

in relation to a group or individual of a differing mind (of course),

psychological effects in words or ways (methodologies) to another. It

is simi to profound hypochondriaism with mild to severe delusions.

>

>

> > These two represent my problem. I don't know how to send viruses and

> > wouldn't do so anyway.

>

> Nor do I, really, but there are people out there who know how. But I

> still wouldn't feel threatened.

>

>

> But again, there are other ways to make a person stop

> > bothering than using magic.

>

> No, in many cases, there isn't.

>

> You ignore them,

>

> Uh, great, ignore people harming you. Yes, GREAT idea. Watch them

> destroying your life, get you fired from your job etc... great idea.

>

> report them to the police,

>

> Err yeah lol Because the police will care about work place politics or

> neighbour conflicts or clubs or bad rumours.

>

>

> fight them.

>

> That's precisely what I do.

>

> > I just don't see the point in doing it in such a way that they don't

> know

> > why. So what if bad things happen to them. If they can't connect it

> to you, why

> > should they stop bothering you.

>

> Because I'll make them to. They will stop because they'll suddenly

> want to stop. No more rumours, no more work place politics crap, no

> more stupid comments.

>

>

> > No, that's a threat, particularly because I have not means to affect

> you.

>

> You are part of a religious group which is radical and has been known

> to pointlessly kill and torture people. I have every reason to be

> scared of your religion. And one of a group starting with such ideas

> often means it spreads fast. I think fundamental Christians are every

> bit as much a thread than fundementalist Moslems. If not more, because

> they aren't recognozed as a thread by most.

>

>

> . No

> > doubt many of those burned threatened some kind of ill on someone

>

> No, usually they just followed the old ways and used their herbal

> knowledge without caring for the Christian god.

>

> > If you took my comment as a threat, that was not intent. Rather I

> was merely

> > pointing out how, with all you have said about magic and all, that

> it could

> > well go a long way to explaining why witches ended up burned.

>

> And I'm poiting out that with the powerful, politically well versed

> church behind you, you are much more of a threat to us.

>

> Lwaxy

>

[Guest guest]

You'll have to excuse me but I am a lowly NT. I have no IDEA what a

'cosmic string' is...I'm telling you as a Christian that prayer is NOT

magic. God is not santa claus, you don't pray to him 'to get what you

want' or to get rid of annoyances in your life.

lwaxy2001 wrote:

> No, YOU call it different.Prayer is NOT magic. What

> > strings do Christians have in your opinion?

> >

>

> I don't call it different. I call it both the same energy. The same

> magic.

>

> And Christians use the same cosmic strings as everyone else. There is

> only one type.

>

> Lwaxy

>

>

>

>

>

>

> FAM Secret Society is a community based on respect, friendship,

> support and acceptance. Everyone is valued.

>

> Check the Links section for more FAM forums.

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

>Thank you . No, I don't think thats what s/he meant either..

>

> In a message dated 3/20/2006 8:15:42 PM Eastern Standard Time,

> kbtoni@... writes:

>

> You'll have to excuse me but I am a lowly NT. I have no IDEA what

a

> 'cosmic string' is...I'm telling you as a Christian that prayer

is NOT

> magic. God is not santa claus, you don't pray to him 'to get what

you

> want' or to get rid of annoyances in your life.

>

>

>

> In astronomy a cosmic string is a piece of superdense matter, like

a black

> hole, but it is a line of material stretching across space like a

giant

> spiderweb. However, I don't think that is what is meant here.

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

ROTFL!!! (Sorry, but the way you wrote that was just hilarious to me!)

Inger

Re: Re: Psychic self-defence

You'll have to excuse me but I am a lowly NT. I have no IDEA what a

'cosmic string' is...I'm telling you as a Christian that prayer is NOT

magic. God is not santa claus, you don't pray to him 'to get what you

want' or to get rid of annoyances in your life.

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 3/21/2006 4:35:38 AM Eastern Standard Time, csparania@... writes:

True, but shouldn't you feel how good your relationship with your godis? I'm usually very sure about which god or goddess I have a goodconnection to and to which I don't.

Not necessarily. Feelings can be deceptive and shifting. Yes I get feelings sometimes during prayer but it is hard to tell exactly if that is a feeling I am generating myself or if it is from without. Some people may have more feeling along that line than I do, but most of the time I just feel like I usually do.