Re: For Tom & Inger ( & others) Bringing together the leaders

[Guest guest]

As usual, give me some time to think about it.

By the way, have you solicited Edan with this idea?

Tom

What say you?

[Guest guest]

No, I figured he is not really active as his site is down.environmental1st2003 <no_reply > wrote: As usual, give me some time to think about it. By the way, have you solicited Edan with this idea? TomAspie Owned, Aspie Operated.AspergersHosting.comA.S.W.C Autism Advocacy & Exchangehttp://www.aspergershosting.com/ASWC

Bring photos to life! New PhotoMail makes sharing a breeze.

[Guest guest]

It's only the forums that are down. I can still visit his site.

This means that someone is paying the fee for keeping it online anyway.

Tom

No, I figured he is not really active as his site is down.

[Guest guest]

I like the idea, since I too prefer the whole truth rather than an all-dismal or all-glorified view on AS. Some of us need help, others don't.

But like Tom, I'm a bit hesitant to work with people who cling to only one side of the truth and close their eyes to the other side because it might hurt their "image" to admit that not everyone on the spectrum is as capable as themselves. I don't see how they would be able to help with advocacy when you're not even allowed to mention AS as a disability on their sites?

I do think something like this is needed, though. There clearly is a need for AS people in your country, and in the UK as well, to get the same type of benefits that Aspies get here in Sweden, while we also need to make it clear that we are NOT retarded just because we may happen to need SOME assistance, protection or special consideration. That we are NOT looking for the type of group home placements where you live as in a prison - with little privacy or power over one's daily life - but something a lot freer, more suited to our individual needs.

But I still need to think about it a bit, to see who else is joining.

Any additional information you can provide would also help in the decision.

Inger

For Tom & Inger ( & others) Bringing together the leaders

This is one of the ideas as to what to lobby for, everyone has ideas, many try to do it alone. It is important that the important ideas be merited and explored for polical yet neutral quality of life advocacies.When A.S is a real impairment despite liking who we are.. ... Quality of life and the TRUTH. Some desire to mask (hide) the real and true reality of some individuals by promoting policies that state otherwise then the whole truth. However such expressions, ie site policies of nothing other then positive advocacies are beneficial to self-esteem. I believe that an autism community, that of course including those with A.S needs to unite to help those in policies advocacies whom are indeed disabled. Did you know that some with A.S, maybe you are viewing now are not fully able or have had no luck with forming social contacts outside of there families. Concerning younger folks with A.S there are advocacies available legally such as in school in America. However in adulthood there is a great need for assistance. I believe that a hidden movement is needed to unite forums despite differences for those that are adults who would benefit from programs and services that as of yet are not educated about A.S or accepting persons with A.S. While this topic is not entirely intellectual rather blunt and to the point because it is in fact of fact I suspect few will disagree but for ego desire to not accept it totally? Even I despise my own words at times but there is a benefit to humility and being humble in truth. The idea is simple, to lobby organizations that assists those with disabilities to assist those with A.S. A.S is a hidden disability, we need no wheelchairs. However I am not understanding of where persons come from here on this forum seeing this topic. The regional center, a organization that has numerous (many) locations to help those with developmental disabilities including autism (even without MR) will not accept those with A.S despite it being of the autistic spectrum. I am still investigating this and am meeting with them, an intake person told me he did talk to the board of the non-profit ( a very large organization) and wanted to start accepting those with A.S. However it is about grants and funding because government doesn’t want to pay for it. However the unique services offered are tailored and individualized and supportive. I think its organization should be supported by persons like us, to gather together and send hundreds if not thousands of e-mails to the proper places to make sure they are funded for us. As for other countries we should implore as well to assist others, however right now because I am American I concern myself with U.S relevancies. That is why others from other countries should gather that are A.S or H.F.A and we all work together. I really look forward to any possible responses. This is not a selfish thing of mine; it is not to make money or popularities myself but inact true and real advocacies that do something, not just say something. We should not depend on large organizations such as the autism society of America or cure autism now. Yet ideally make neutral certain things as to not create a psychological social divide between establishment and the individual I believe. What say you?_________________Thinking in ArchetypesAspie Owned, Aspie Operated.AspergersHostingcomA.S.W.C Autism Advocacy & Exchangehttp://www.aspergershosting.com/ASWC

TravelFind great deals to the top 10 hottest destinations!

[Guest guest]

If persons beyond those I have contacted thus far gather together and we sort of figure out how to work together, then contacting him for a type of marketing would be a good idea.environmental1st2003 <no_reply > wrote: It's only the forums that are down. I can still visit his site. This means that someone is paying the fee for keeping it online anyway. Tom Aspie Owned, Aspie Operated.AspergersHosting.comA.S.W.C Autism Advocacy & Exchangehttp://www.aspergershosting.com/ASWC__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

Just started talking to people the other day, I've only invited you and Tom thus far. Have not had a chance to speak to others yet.Inger Lorelei <inglori@...> wrote: I like the idea, since I too prefer the whole truth rather than an all-dismal or all-glorified view on AS. Some of us need help, others don't. But like Tom, I'm a bit hesitant to work with people who cling to only one side of the truth and close their eyes to the other side because it might hurt their "image" to admit that not everyone on the spectrum is as capable as themselves. I don't see how

they would be able to help with advocacy when you're not even allowed to mention AS as a disability on their sites? I do think something like this is needed, though. There clearly is a need for AS people in your country, and in the UK as well, to get the same type of benefits that Aspies get here in Sweden, while we also need to make it clear that we are NOT retarded just because we may happen to need SOME assistance, protection or special consideration. That we are NOT looking for the type of group home placements where you live as in a prison - with little privacy or power over one's daily life - but something a lot freer, more suited to our individual needs. But I still need to think about it a bit, to see who else is joining. Any additional information you can provide would also help in the decision. Inger Aspie Owned, Aspie Operated.AspergersHosting.comA.S.W.C Autism Advocacy & Exchangehttp://www.aspergershosting.com/ASWC__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

P.S talked to others yet, concerning the forum I have up, but I will speak to them today.My brain is busy today so likely I will work on this stuff at nights and do other things in the day offline.Inger Lorelei <inglori@...> wrote: I like the idea, since I too prefer the whole truth rather than an all-dismal or all-glorified view on AS. Some of us need help, others don't. But like Tom, I'm a bit hesitant to work with people who cling to only one side of the truth and close their eyes to the other side because it might hurt their "image" to admit

that not everyone on the spectrum is as capable as themselves. I don't see how they would be able to help with advocacy when you're not even allowed to mention AS as a disability on their sites? I do think something like this is needed, though. There clearly is a need for AS people in your country, and in the UK as well, to get the same type of benefits that Aspies get here in Sweden, while we also need to make it clear that we are NOT retarded just because we may happen to need SOME assistance, protection or special consideration. That we are NOT looking for the type of group home placements where you live as in a prison - with little privacy or power over one's daily life - but something a lot freer, more suited to our individual needs. But I still need to think about

it a bit, to see who else is joining. Any additional information you can provide would also help in the decision. Inger For Tom & Inger ( & others) Bringing together the leaders This is one of the ideas as to what to lobby for, everyone has ideas, many try to do it alone. It is important that the important ideas be merited and explored for polical yet neutral quality of life advocacies.When A.S is a real impairment despite liking who we are.. ... Quality of life and the TRUTH. Some desire to mask (hide) the real and true

reality of some individuals by promoting policies that state otherwise then the whole truth. However such expressions, ie site policies of nothing other then positive advocacies are beneficial to self-esteem. I believe that an autism community, that of course including those with A.S needs to unite to help those in policies advocacies whom are indeed disabled. Did you know that some with A.S, maybe you are viewing now are not fully able or have had no luck with forming social contacts outside of there families. Concerning younger folks with A.S there are advocacies available legally such as in school in America. However in adulthood there is a great need for assistance. I believe that a hidden movement is needed to unite forums despite differences for those that are adults who would benefit from programs and services that as of yet are not educated about A.S or accepting persons with A.S. While this topic is not entirely intellectual rather blunt

and to the point because it is in fact of fact I suspect few will disagree but for ego desire to not accept it totally? Even I despise my own words at times but there is a benefit to humility and being humble in truth. The idea is simple, to lobby organizations that assists those with disabilities to assist those with A.S. A.S is a hidden disability, we need no wheelchairs. However I am not understanding of where persons come from here on this forum seeing this topic. The regional center, a organization that has numerous (many) locations to help those with developmental disabilities including autism (even without MR) will not accept those with A.S despite it being of the autistic spectrum. I am still investigating this and am meeting with them, an intake person told me he did talk to the board of the non-profit ( a very large organization) and wanted to start accepting those with A.S. However it is about grants and funding because government

doesn�t want to pay for it. However the unique services offered are tailored and individualized and supportive. I think its organization should be supported by persons like us, to gather together and send hundreds if not thousands of e-mails to the proper places to make sure they are funded for us. As for other countries we should implore as well to assist others, however right now because I am American I concern myself with U.S relevancies. That is why others from other countries should gather that are A.S or H.F.A and we all work together. I really look forward to any possible responses. This is not a selfish thing of mine; it is not to make money or popularities myself but inact true and real advocacies that do something, not just say something. We should not depend on large organizations such as the autism society of America or cure autism now. Yet ideally make neutral certain things as to not create a psychological social divide between

establishment and the individual I believe. What say you?_________________Thinking in ArchetypesAspie Owned, Aspie Operated.AspergersHostingcomA.S.W.C Autism Advocacy & Exchangehttp://www.aspergershosting.com/ASWC TravelFind great deals to the top 10 hottest destinations! Aspie Owned, Aspie

Operated.AspergersHosting.comA.S.W.C Autism Advocacy & Exchangehttp://www.aspergershosting.com/ASWC

Bring photos to life! New PhotoMail makes sharing a breeze.

[Guest guest]

I see. Well, as much as I appreciate the ideal of inclusiveness and cooperation between groups, I think a pre-requisite should be that members of this particular venture must accept some basic statement that AS can be both a gift AND a disability and that it may vary between individuals if, and if so, how much help one may need.

I one group sees it ONLY as a gift, and another sees it ONLY as a disability that should be cured ASAP, I don't see how they can be effective in a balanced advocacy. If I am to participate, I would wish the group to not include fanatics.

Inger

Re: Re: For Tom & Inger ( & others) Bringing together the leaders

Just started talking to people the other day, I've only invited you and Tom thus far. Have not had a chance to speak to others yet.Inger Lorelei <inglori@...> wrote:

I like the idea, since I too prefer the whole truth rather than an all-dismal or all-glorified view on AS. Some of us need help, others don't.

But like Tom, I'm a bit hesitant to work with people who cling to only one side of the truth and close their eyes to the other side because it might hurt their "image" to admit that not everyone on the spectrum is as capable as themselves. I don't see how they would be able to help with advocacy when you're not even allowed to mention AS as a disability on their sites?

I do think something like this is needed, though. There clearly is a need for AS people in your country, and in the UK as well, to get the same type of benefits that Aspies get here in Sweden, while we also need to make it clear that we are NOT retarded just because we may happen to need SOME assistance, protection or special consideration. That we are NOT looking for the type of group home placements where you live as in a prison - with little privacy or power over one's daily life - but something a lot freer, more suited to our individual needs.

But I still need to think about it a bit, to see who else is joining.

Any additional information you can provide would also help in the decision.

Inger

Aspie Owned, Aspie Operated.AspergersHosting.comA.S.W.C Autism Advocacy & Exchangehttp://www.aspergershosting.com/ASWC

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

I view A.S as subjectable to the reality of the individual, a view concerning A.S absent from an individual him or herself is mute to the reality of any one other individual in his or her own choice and view.. I am sure it is easy to recognize a fanatic, I'm not supportive of anti-establishment ideals, though recognize professionals make mistakes. Fanatics may join, however I myself will spend the time to intellectually and rationally discuss issues in hopes for balanced views. My hope is to help those seeking hope, disability

need not be a disability rather a difference and just that. Inger Lorelei <inglori@...> wrote: I see. Well, as much as I appreciate the ideal of inclusiveness and cooperation between groups, I think a pre-requisite should be that members of this particular venture must accept some basic statement that AS can be both a gift AND a disability and that it may vary between individuals if, and if so, how much help one may need. I one group sees it ONLY as a gift, and another sees it ONLY as a disability that should be cured ASAP, I don't see how they can be effective in a balanced advocacy. If I

am to participate, I would wish the group to not include fanatics. Inger Aspie Owned, Aspie Operated.AspergersHosting.comA.S.W.C Autism Advocacy & Exchangehttp://www.aspergershosting.com/ASWC

Bring photos to life! New PhotoMail makes sharing a breeze.

[Guest guest]

I too view it as a difference, which is SOMETIMES also a disability - especially in non-optimal surroundings. In suitable and supporting circumstances it becomes less of a disability and can be more of an asset.

If you can get those whose members are not even permitted to MENTION that AS can sometimes be a disability, to adopt a more reasonable and realistic stance - and to quit bashing non-autistics as a favorite sport - then by all means, feel free to try. (Last time I tried, my post was removed and myself ejected from that forum within the hour.) I really pray that you will be able to talk some sense into them where I failed.

I think it is a great idea you have and that something like this is really needed.

Inger

Re: Re: For Tom & Inger ( & others) Bringing together the leaders

I view A.S as subjectable to the reality of the individual, a view concerning A.S absent from an individual him or herself is mute to the reality of any one other individual in his or her own choice and view..

I am sure it is easy to recognize a fanatic, I'm not supportive of anti-establishment ideals, though recognize professionals make mistakes. Fanatics may join, however I myself will spend the time to intellectually and rationally discuss issues in hopes for balanced views.

My hope is to help those seeking hope, disability need not be a disability rather a difference and just that.

Inger Lorelei <inglori@...> wrote:

I see. Well, as much as I appreciate the ideal of inclusiveness and cooperation between groups, I think a pre-requisite should be that members of this particular venture must accept some basic statement that AS can be both a gift AND a disability and that it may vary between individuals if, and if so, how much help one may need.

I one group sees it ONLY as a gift, and another sees it ONLY as a disability that should be cured ASAP, I don't see how they can be effective in a balanced advocacy. If I am to participate, I would wish the group to not include fanatics.

Inger

Aspie Owned, Aspie Operated.AspergersHosting.comA.S.W.C Autism Advocacy & Exchangehttp://www.aspergershosting.com/ASWC

Bring photos to life! New PhotoMail makes sharing a breeze.

[Guest guest]

I think that a common sense will arise, sometimes intolerances come from negative experiences and illusional beliefs concerning what cannot be readily controlled. The goal and the true intent at that is not to argue with words but rather organize to assist. When needed and in the primary intent is to establish a political advocacy so assist organizations, even governmental with the awareness of needed funds. For instance to initially figure out within the united states what programs governmentally or otherwise are established to help adults with A.S (disability, difference, gift or combination thereof). IF funding is needed, such as to accept those with A.S who are in need despite politics that state otherwise then working together to send a few hundred polite and constructive e-mails to help would be ideal. The goal is not to fight an illusive cure or promote any anti-establishment ideal, however if such persons want hosting, so be it. Working

together for the betterment of those in need is by far more constructive, sensible and of community service then anti-psychiatry marketing’s for instance. I must however, tolerate even intolerance for proof of my ability to make any such venue democratic and accepting. Anything of this endeavor, is however fully able and willing to be reformed and reformulated and not under the control of my whim nor my philosophical ideals. There are far more important generalized issues relevant to quality of life then divisional differences which are not important by comparison. YoungInger Lorelei <inglori@...> wrote: I too view it as a

difference, which is SOMETIMES also a disability - especially in non-optimal surroundings. In suitable and supporting circumstances it becomes less of a disability and can be more of an asset. If you can get those whose members are not even permitted to MENTION that AS can sometimes be a disability, to adopt a more reasonable and realistic stance - and to quit bashing non-autistics as a favorite sport - then by all means, feel free to try. (Last time I tried, my post was removed and myself ejected from that forum within the hour.) I really pray that you will be able to talk some sense into them where I failed. I think it is a great idea you have and that something like this is really needed. Inger Aspie Owned, Aspie Operated.AspergersHosting.comA.S.W.C Autism Advocacy & Exchangehttp://www.aspergershosting.com/ASWC

Use Photomail to share photos without annoying attachments.

[Guest guest]

OK, I understand and am impressed by your vision. This precise type of advocacy I think is urgently needed. I just hope more forum owners can be as open-minded as yourself.

Inger

Re: Re: For Tom & Inger ( & others) Bringing together the leaders

I think that a common sense will arise, sometimes intolerances come from negative experiences and illusional beliefs concerning what cannot be readily controlled.The goal and the true intent at that is not to argue with words but rather organize to assist. When needed and in the primary intent is to establish a political advocacy so assist organizations, even governmental with the awareness of needed funds.For instance to initially figure out within the united states what programs governmentally or otherwise are established to help adults with A.S (disability, difference, gift or combination thereof). IF funding is needed, such as to accept those with A.S who are in need despite politics that state otherwise then working together to send a few hundred polite and constructive e-mails to help would be ideal.The goal is not to fight an illusive cure or promote any anti-establishment ideal, however if such persons want hosting, so be it. Working together for the betterment of those in need is by far more constructive, sensible and of community service then anti-psychiatry marketing’s for instance.I must however, tolerate even intolerance for proof of my ability to make any such venue democratic and accepting.

Anything of this endeavor, is however fully able and willing to be reformed and reformulated and not under the control of my whim nor my philosophical ideals. There are far more important generalized issues relevant to quality of life then divisional differences which are not important by comparison. YoungInger Lorelei <inglori@...> wrote:

I too view it as a difference, which is SOMETIMES also a disability - especially in non-optimal surroundings. In suitable and supporting circumstances it becomes less of a disability and can be more of an asset.

If you can get those whose members are not even permitted to MENTION that AS can sometimes be a disability, to adopt a more reasonable and realistic stance - and to quit bashing non-autistics as a favorite sport - then by all means, feel free to try. (Last time I tried, my post was removed and myself ejected from that forum within the hour.) I really pray that you will be able to talk some sense into them where I failed.

I think it is a great idea you have and that something like this is really needed.

Inger

Aspie Owned, Aspie Operated.AspergersHosting.comA.S.W.C Autism Advocacy & Exchangehttp://www.aspergershosting.com/ASWC

Use Photomail to share photos without annoying attachments.

[Guest guest]

As long as the basic autism phenotype is not considered a disorder, I have no problems

with such forum. I do not like the idea of bashing advocate-site like AFF. They have a

role too, because today's mainstream-views of autism are totally flawed. Without proper

understanding of autism which mostly the advocacy-sites is delivering, there can be

no balanced view of AS either.

I do think we should also take the comorbidities more seriously. For instance, I

just found out that in a sample of 3000 autistic children, 1/3 had too high iron

levels. Why isn't anybody researching this and the possible connection to

Hemochromatosis? Why isn't anybody taking amalgam / mercury poisoning

seriously? We have "curebees" taking this issues seriously, but only to demonstrate

their view of the causes of autism. I rarely see advocacy groups taking these things

seriously. I think we need to take these and many other issues more seriously.

Better to prevent handicapped autistics than to shoot for assistance when they

already suffered from treatable damage.

Leif

For Tom & Inger ( & others) Bringing together the leaders

This is one of the ideas as to what to lobby for, everyone has ideas, many try to do it alone. It is important that the important ideas be merited and explored for polical yet neutral quality of life advocacies.When A.S is a real impairment despite liking who we are.. ... Quality of life and the TRUTH. Some desire to mask (hide) the real and true reality of some individuals by promoting policies that state otherwise then the whole truth. However such expressions, ie site policies of nothing other then positive advocacies are beneficial to self-esteem. I believe that an autism community, that of course including those with A.S needs to unite to help those in policies advocacies whom are indeed disabled. Did you know that some with A.S, maybe you are viewing now are not fully able or have had no luck with forming social contacts outside of there families. Concerning younger folks with A.S there are advocacies available legally such as in school in America. However in adulthood there is a great need for assistance. I believe that a hidden movement is needed to unite forums despite differences for those that are adults who would benefit from programs and services that as of yet are not educated about A.S or accepting persons with A.S. While this topic is not entirely intellectual rather blunt and to the point because it is in fact of fact I suspect few will disagree but for ego desire to not accept it totally? Even I despise my own words at times but there is a benefit to humility and being humble in truth. The idea is simple, to lobby organizations that assists those with disabilities to assist those with A.S. A.S is a hidden disability, we need no wheelchairs. However I am not understanding of where persons come from here on this forum seeing this topic. The regional center, a organization that has numerous (many) locations to help those with developmental disabilities including autism (even without MR) will not accept those with A.S despite it being of the autistic spectrum. I am still investigating this and am meeting with them, an intake person told me he did talk to the board of the non-profit ( a very large organization) and wanted to start accepting those with A.S. However it is about grants and funding because government doesn’t want to pay for it. However the unique services offered are tailored and individualized and supportive. I think its organization should be supported by persons like us, to gather together and send hundreds if not thousands of e-mails to the proper places to make sure they are funded for us. As for other countries we should implore as well to assist others, however right now because I am American I concern myself with U.S relevancies. That is why others from other countries should gather that are A.S or H.F.A and we all work together. I really look forward to any possible responses. This is not a selfish thing of mine; it is not to make money or popularities myself but inact true and real advocacies that do something, not just say something. We should not depend on large organizations such as the autism society of America or cure autism now. Yet ideally make neutral certain things as to not create a psychological social divide between establishment and the individual I believe. What say you?_________________Thinking in ArchetypesAspie Owned, Aspie Operated.AspergersHostingcomA.S.W.C Autism Advocacy & Exchangehttp://www.aspergershosting.com/ASWC

TravelFind great deals to the top 10 hottest destinations!

[Guest guest]

A.F.F is very closed minded, one of the owners is a satanist, the group has a history with conflicts with other groups. Started a bunch of issues with me over simple questions becuase I found out incidently an anti-aff site which could be true or not.I offered to work with them but seen as a competitor, outcasted dispite trying to help and being caught in the middle of group to group conflicts from the start. What a fricken waste of time and recourse. found out that other site owners hated A.F.F, then for me defending A.F.F initially hated for that, then hated by A.F.F for finding what was refered to as dirt on them and asking publicly about it. Then I was accused of harrassing the lady owner person whom talked to me in chat for over a year and treated me nicely until I opened my site and all this happened. HArrassing becuase I brought up the S.F site on another, so somehow I was a criminal becuase I was speaking freely.The whole triangle as I say of hate

and opposition internally from one another, including not allowing free speech on there site leaves me thinking:IF they want to control the point of view, will not allow any sort of difference of opinion then how to deal with that?A.F.F like some other poeple have manipulated the truth concerning me, it's really stupid.They unlike others whom just have differences of opinion with, yet respect should apologise to me and others whom they have outcasted and inact reform for the choice in policy of the members, not remove those that differ. It's the ultimate disrespect.Debating whether or not autism is a disability is not an issue, the goal is to improve the quality of life of individuals, not what autism is or what it is consider as. No one will ultimatly agree and it is a formula for disaster.A.F.F really is not freedom, its there point of view and nothing otherwise.They have cuased me so many problems and all I wanted to do was

help. Nope they are in no way willing to speak to me, yet think of me as such a bad person.Many many problems and false things projected into who I am not simply for asking questions.Yet my saying this to some means I am against everything that is said by them and every member there. Not true.I'd like a full apology from Amy, its well deserved. Then I might think about it and try to get others to reconsider them as a whole.To me there are two Amy's, yet one. The one before what happened and the one after. She was actually a good friend in chat.Yet by saying this, some won't like me one bit for offering the peace as well as bridging the gap between groups.Leif Ekblad <leif@...> wrote: As long as the basic autism phenotype is not considered a disorder, I have no problems with such forum. I do not like the idea of bashing advocate-site like AFF. They have a role too, because today's mainstream-views of autism are totally flawed. Without proper understanding of autism which mostly the advocacy-sites is delivering, there can be no balanced view of AS either. I do think we should also take the comorbidities more seriously. For instance, I just found out that in a sample of 3000 autistic children, 1/3 had too high iron levels. Why isn't anybody researching this and the possible connection to Hemochromatosis? Why isn't anybody taking amalgam / mercury poisoning seriously? We have "curebees" taking this issues seriously, but only to demonstrate their view of the causes of autism. I rarely see advocacy groups taking these things seriously. I think we need to take these and many other issues more seriously. Better to prevent handicapped autistics than to shoot for assistance when they already suffered from treatable damage. LeifAspie Owned, Aspie

Operated.AspergersHosting.comA.S.W.C Autism Advocacy & Exchangehttp://www.aspergershosting.com/ASWC

Use Photomail to share photos without annoying attachments.

[Guest guest]

:

> A.F.F is very closed minded, one of the owners is a satanist,

> the group has a history with conflicts with other groups.

> Started a bunch of issues with me over simple questions

> becuase I found out incidently an anti-aff site which could be true or

not.

That's irrelevant. AFF has got publicity outside of traditional

advocacy circles, and is recognized as a radical AS site. If

some of them are satanists, budhist or whatever is irrelevant.

[snipped hate for AFF]

I think any site that claims to represent all views cannot

take sides against particular sites, regardless if they are

pro-cure or think Aspies are good as they are.

Leif

[Guest guest]

,

I'd very surprised indeed to see any apology from Amy.

Does that mean AFF will not be invited to join in your venture?

Inger

[Guest guest]

Leif:

> As long as the basic autism phenotype is not considered a disorder, I have

> no problems

with such forum. I do not like the idea of bashing advocate-site like AFF.

I'm sure intends to do no such thing, only explaining his policy to

us, here, since I ASKED about it.

> They have a role too, because today's mainstream-views of autism are

> totally flawed. Without proper

understanding of autism which mostly the advocacy-sites is delivering, there

can be no balanced view of AS either.

And they have a " proper " understanding of autism??? When you're hardly even

allowed to mention that autism or AS may be anything but sign of being an

übermench.

> I do think we should also take the comorbidities more seriously. For

> instance, I

just found out that in a sample of 3000 autistic children, 1/3 had too high

iron

levels. Why isn't anybody researching this and the possible connection to

Hemochromatosis?

What exactly IS hemochomatosis? (I have always been more or less anaemic.)

> Why isn't anybody taking amalgam / mercury poisoning seriously?

Because if they did, you would see law-suits that no dentist can afford and

we'd get a dental crisis.

> We have " curebees " taking this issues seriously, but only to demonstrate

> their view of the causes of autism.

Yes, unfortunately.

> I rarely see advocacy groups taking these things seriously.

I think we need to take these and many other issues more seriously.

Better to prevent handicapped autistics than to shoot for assistance when

they

already suffered from treatable damage.

I don't think any of us are properly qualified. Autism is such a complex

question and there are already gazillions of groups out there both trying to

find a reason for it and providing services for those who are most disabled.

But how many care about all those aspies who fall through the cracks and

don't get the help they really need because they look and act " too normal " -

yet often not " normal " enough to avoid getting bullied and shut out of the

job market?

Inger

[Guest guest]

> Leif:

> > As long as the basic autism phenotype is not considered a disorder, I

have

> > no problems

> with such forum. I do not like the idea of bashing advocate-site like AFF.

Inger:

> I'm sure intends to do no such thing, only explaining his policy to

> us, here, since I ASKED about it.

I didn't say he would, but I offered this as kind of a provocation given

I know the attitude of some people here about AFF ;-)

> > They have a role too, because today's mainstream-views of autism are

> > totally flawed. Without proper

> understanding of autism which mostly the advocacy-sites is delivering,

there

> can be no balanced view of AS either.

>

> And they have a " proper " understanding of autism??? When you're hardly

even

> allowed to mention that autism or AS may be anything but sign of being an

> übermench.

I think looking at superior traits is part of understanding autism. It is

not

the only thing required but certainly part of it.

> What exactly IS hemochomatosis? (I have always been more or less anaemic.)

Hemochromatosis is a genetic mutation that makes you absorb iron much

more efficiently from food than normal. The problems arrises when you

get too much iron in your food, as the body cannot get rid of the excess

iron and it will instead accumulate in the body. There are also a couple

of diseases that involves accumulation of iron in the brain, for instance

Parkinson.

> > Why isn't anybody taking amalgam / mercury poisoning seriously?

>

> Because if they did, you would see law-suits that no dentist can afford

and

> we'd get a dental crisis.

I suppose you are right. I wouldn't care if there were a dental crisis. I

won't go to a dentist again. Never. No knowing what they will put

into your mouth, and what the long-term effects are.

> > I rarely see advocacy groups taking these things seriously.

> I think we need to take these and many other issues more seriously.

> Better to prevent handicapped autistics than to shoot for assistance when

> they

> already suffered from treatable damage.

>

> I don't think any of us are properly qualified. Autism is such a complex

> question and there are already gazillions of groups out there both trying

to

> find a reason for it and providing services for those who are most

disabled.

That's the point. We shouldn't think these issues *cause* autism. We should

be worried about comorbidities that are treatable. Hemochromatosis, for

instance,

is easily treatable. All that is required is to loose blood regulary.

> But how many care about all those aspies who fall through the cracks and

> don't get the help they really need because they look and act " too

normal " -

> yet often not " normal " enough to avoid getting bullied and shut out of the

> job market?

I agree. I've been in that position myself with my kids.

Leif

[Guest guest]

" I think that a common sense will arise, sometimes intolerances come

from negative experiences and illusional beliefs concerning what

cannot be readily controlled. "

, as much as I would like to believe this to be true, I think

you are NOT seeing something that only became glaringly obvious to me

after a period of time. There are two websites out there who APPEAR to

be working on behalf of all Aspies when in fact they are only working

in their own egotistical best interests.

The moment you confront them with this plain accusation you are banned

and then ranted against without the ability to respond because you

have been banned. They then accuse you of being weak because you have

not responded, and their members come to believe this not knowing that

you have been banned.

I will NOT stand in a coalition if these websites are to be included.

Their interest is NOT to assist all Aspies but to assist themselves.

Joining your coalition would hardly be a genuine gesture on their part

but just another way to make it look like they were working for Aspies

when in fact they would be working for themselves. For these two

boards, all of their Aspie members are unknowing pawns in a game.

" I must however, tolerate even intolerance for proof of my ability to

make any such venue democratic and accepting. "

That's weak.

Would you tolerate people with weak ethics and morals just so your own

cause can be achieved?

I would ask you to rethink how you are compiling this coalition and

deliberately exclude those boards which conduct themselves with

lacking morals, values, and ethics.

" There are far more important generalized issues relevant to quality

of life then divisional differences which are not important by

comparison. "

I disagree. The divisional differences are there for a reason. I like

to take the moral high road. Others do not. Why not exclude and shun

those who use and manipulate their members for their own purposes? We

should do this because those boards are the biggest impediment for

Aspies to achieve the GOOD recognition that they deserve.

Tom

Administrator

[Guest guest]

Bridging the gap between some groups and AFF is noble, but worthless

because even if everyone apologized, AFF will continue to act in their

best interest and undermine any perceived competitor, even if the

competitor makes larger strides in the direction they themselves claim

to be heading in.

A moral stance must be taken here if we are to advocate for autistics,

and that stance must say " We do not stand alongside of egotistical

manipulative Satanists even if SOME of what they are doing is good. "

Autistics need to demonstrate that they have morals, ethics, and

priciples and are WORTHY of the attentions, assistance, and good

treatment of non-autistics. Since AFF seems to think they don't need

anyone else, and since they have proven themselves unworthy of the

attentions, assistance, and good treatment of non-autistics, I can

scarecly see why anyone would want to have these people as an ally as

it would only make the overall coalition a laughing stock in the eyes

of the non-autistic community.

And I will not have anything to do with Aspergian Pride either. We

cannot have someone who talks abouthow special autistics are on the

one hand and who has a website devoted to the BDSM treatment of

mentally incapacitated idividuals against their will on the other

advocating for Aspie rights. No one in their right mind would take

such a website seriously.

Tom

Administrator

I'd like a full apology from Amy, its well deserved. Then I might

think about it and try to get others to reconsider them as a whole.

To me there are two Amy's, yet one. The one before what happened and

the one after. She was actually a good friend in chat.

Yet by saying this, some won't like me one bit for offering the peace

as well as bridging the gap between groups.

[Guest guest]

The fact that they have publicity is irrelevant. We can get our own

publicity. The fact that no one else currently has it stems from the

fact that they have members on Wikkipeida that delete anyone else's

attempts to post links to their own forums and slam any group

publically that challenges their notions about AS.

What they are Leif, is what the UFO people are in my country.

Amusing at best, and fodder for ridicule by any respectable

organization.

Aside from that, Satanism teachers that there is no such thing as

evil. This is why AFF can use evil methods freely to accomplish

their goals.

I want no part of such filth.

If this is the sort of people you would like to associate with,

that's your perrogative, but recognize that by so doing their filth

and their methods will rub off on you, as will their increasingly

derrogatory reputation.

Tom

Administrator

That's irrelevant. AFF has got publicity outside of traditional

advocacy circles, and is recognized as a radical AS site. If

some of them are satanists, budhist or whatever is irrelevant.

Leif

[Guest guest]

Leif:

>>> I do not like the idea of bashing advocate-site like AFF.

>

Inger:

>> I'm sure intends to do no such thing, only explaining his policy

>> to us, here, since I ASKED about it.

>

Leif:

> I didn't say he would, but I offered this as kind of a provocation given I

> know the attitude of some people here about AFF ;-)

The only ones here who may have an " attitude " about AFF are those who have

been unfairly treated by them. I don't want to bash anyone; just asking some

questions and explaining why I am not overly keen on being in a joint

venture with them - or with AP who state in their board policy that you

can't mention AS in anything but positive light or risk having your post

edited.

Inger:

>> And they have a " proper " understanding of autism??? When you're hardly

>> even allowed to mention that autism or AS may be anything but sign of

>> being an übermench.

>

Leif:

> I think looking at superior traits is part of understanding autism. It is

> not the only thing required but certainly part of it.

Have I said otherwise? You have known me ever since I came online. Have I

not always tried to point out people's special talents when they feel

totally useless because that's what they've been told all their lives? But

that doesn't mean that many of us aren't also in need of assistance. I

happen to be a color genius. But I am still too sensitive and physically

incapacitated to make it in this world without assistance. Only difference

between me and the fanatic faction is that I don't see it as degrading to

need help. I don't feel that it makes me worth any less as a human being.

I'm not too proud to ask for the help that I need.

>> What exactly IS hemochomatosis? (I have always been more or less

>> anaemic.)

> Hemochromatosis is a genetic mutation that makes you absorb iron much

more efficiently from food than normal. The problems arrises when you

get too much iron in your food, as the body cannot get rid of the excess

iron and it will instead accumulate in the body. There are also a couple

of diseases that involves accumulation of iron in the brain, for instance

Parkinson.

Very interesting. What happens when you have too much blood then? Do you get

symtoms like in autism?

> > > Why isn't anybody taking amalgam / mercury poisoning seriously?

> >

> > Because if they did, you would see law-suits that no dentist can afford

> > and we'd get a dental crisis.

>

> I suppose you are right. I wouldn't care if there were a dental crisis. I

> won't go to a dentist again. Never. No knowing what they will put

> into your mouth, and what the long-term effects are.

They will not put anything in there that you don't let them. If you can

afford it, just ask for porcelain.

And in Sweden, dentists can't be sued, btw. It would probably be the State

found responsible since it was Socialstyrelsen who approved of mercury, and

they are naturally unwilling to pay the cost, even if it would be with our

own tax money. That's why Socialstyrelsen still insists that the only place

mercury miraculously becomes non-toxic is in the mouth of a living person.

Soon as you're dead, the corpse is considered an environmental hazard if it

has mercury fillings.

Leif:

> We shouldn't think these issues *cause* autism. We should

be worried about comorbidities that are treatable. Hemochromatosis, for

instance, is easily treatable. All that is required is to loose blood

regulary.

Why don't you start an information campaign about that, then?

Inger

[Guest guest]

" AFF has got publicity outside of traditional advocacy circles, and is

recognized as a radical AS site. If some of them are satanists,

budhist or whatever is irrelevant. "

We can get the publicity they have. The reason we have not gotten it

so far is that their members on Wikkepedia keep deleting our links and

banning us when we protest. Additionally, they slam us openly on other

sites and we have to go surfing the net to find these posts in order

to combat them. By then it is too late.

The fact that Gareth is a Satanist is directly relevant because he

believes the following:

http://www.aspiesforfreedom.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?

t=1043 & postdays=0 & postorder=asc & start=105

" To the satanist, the self is god. "

We have no chance working in conjunction with a person whose flaws are

the rules they live by and govern with. Imperfection is a stmbling

block. Not a foundation.

" I think any site that claims to represent all views cannot take sides

against particular sites, regardless if they are pro-cure or think

Aspies are good as they are. "

Agreed. And so we can simply say:

" This site represents all views except those of the radical autistic

community. To wit: AFF. "

Tom

Administrator

[Guest guest]

>

> I'd like a full apology from Amy, its well deserved. Then I might

think about it and try to get others to reconsider them as a whole.

>

> To me there are two Amy's, yet one. The one before what happened and

the one after. She was actually a good friend in chat.

>

> Yet by saying this, some won't like me one bit for offering the peace

as well as bridging the gap between groups.

>

, I had experienced exaclty the same with her originally.

When you know the bad side, on the serious and abruptly uncaring scale

that we have, it cancels the good side from having been real, and we

should not chase nostalgically after recovering it.

[Guest guest]

The bottom line is...as a Christian, I cannot and will not enter into

a coalition with Satanists.

That's my final word on that.

Exclude AFF and AP and I am in.

Include them and I will have nothing to do with them.

Tom

Administrator

" If some of them are satanists, budhist or whatever is irrelevant. "