Movies are boring

[Guest guest]

I can't stand that either and just skip 'R' rated movies alltogether in

order to not be suprised at some part in the movie where that pops up

(as it inevitably will).

>

> What I can't stand about movies these days is the fact that they

can't

> tell a story without saying the " F " word and GD ever other word. I

> can't enjoy a movie because I'm so put off by the language and sex

and

> violence. It looks like the makers of movies would see that some of

> the best selling movies are the ones that don't have all this cr*p in

> them..

>

[Guest guest]

>

> It's funny though. You go through the Bible Belt and seldom is

heard a

> discouraging word. Lots of pleases and thank you sir's and yes

> ma'am's. No sh*t, f*ck, G*d damn it, etc. And no strip clubs either.

>

> Also, there seem to be churches every other block.

>

> Could there be a correlation here?

>

It's true about there being not much swearing in the south. When I

hear it now I'm shocked. But I don't think a blanket statement can be

made because while swearing is a point with them, something else is

not. Like I've noticed often that swearing is a no-no but dirty jokes

are okay. There's also the problem of many being outwardly polite but

talking about you behind your back. Often I long for someone to speak

honestly and outrightly with me. And I had to learn that offers of

hospitality weren't really meant, they were just said to sound nice.

Also, more churches mean more chances of hypocritical or self-

righteous behavior. I don't know if there's less strip clubs here but

they definitely are here. NOTE: I'm not cutting down southerners,

just being real. Northerners and Southerners both have their

(different) good and bad points, in the end just people.

[Guest guest]

>

> It's funny though. You go through the Bible Belt and seldom is

heard a

> discouraging word. Lots of pleases and thank you sir's and yes

> ma'am's. No sh*t, f*ck, G*d damn it, etc. And no strip clubs either.

>

> Also, there seem to be churches every other block.

>

> Could there be a correlation here?

>

It's true about there being not much swearing in the south. When I

hear it now I'm shocked. But I don't think a blanket statement can be

made because while swearing is a point with them, something else is

not. Like I've noticed often that swearing is a no-no but dirty jokes

are okay. There's also the problem of many being outwardly polite but

talking about you behind your back. Often I long for someone to speak

honestly and outrightly with me. And I had to learn that offers of

hospitality weren't really meant, they were just said to sound nice.

Also, more churches mean more chances of hypocritical or self-

righteous behavior. I don't know if there's less strip clubs here but

they definitely are here. NOTE: I'm not cutting down southerners,

just being real. Northerners and Southerners both have their

(different) good and bad points, in the end just people.

[Guest guest]

I didn't see the passion. It was drilled into my head too many times at the christian school my parents stuck me in for 5 years as a teenager. Alot of people are going to kill in fits of passion or rage or even premeditated. Why not put it in movies to instill a sense of fear or atleast judge from pulse readers which kids have ice running through their veins and therefore know what's likely to happen in the future. tsbthatsme <kbtoni@...> wrote: a-name> house of 10,000 corpses which was halfway

decent I haven't see either of those, I do like horror movies(some). I could never understand why so many people complained about the violence in The Passion of The Christ(maybe because it looked so real and made people uncomfortable) but you can blow 12 peoples heads off and noone complains

Relax. virus scanning helps detect nasty viruses!

[Guest guest]

I didn't see the passion. It was drilled into my head too many times at the christian school my parents stuck me in for 5 years as a teenager. Alot of people are going to kill in fits of passion or rage or even premeditated. Why not put it in movies to instill a sense of fear or atleast judge from pulse readers which kids have ice running through their veins and therefore know what's likely to happen in the future. tsbthatsme <kbtoni@...> wrote: a-name> house of 10,000 corpses which was halfway

decent I haven't see either of those, I do like horror movies(some). I could never understand why so many people complained about the violence in The Passion of The Christ(maybe because it looked so real and made people uncomfortable) but you can blow 12 peoples heads off and noone complains

Relax. virus scanning helps detect nasty viruses!

[Guest guest]

I've been to smalltown Pennsylvania and some of my relatives didn't like the people up there because they were so abrasive. That's a good point you made about the number of churches and the people. I'd still rather live in a smalltown southern state than up north. mikecarrie01 <mikecarrie01@...> wrote: >> It's funny though. You go through the Bible Belt and seldom is heard a > discouraging word. Lots of pleases and thank you sir's and yes > ma'am's. No sh*t, f*ck, G*d damn it, etc. And no strip clubs either.> > Also, there seem to be churches every other block.> > Could there be a correlation here?> It's true about there being not much swearing in the south. When I hear it now

I'm shocked. But I don't think a blanket statement can be made because while swearing is a point with them, something else is not. Like I've noticed often that swearing is a no-no but dirty jokes are okay. There's also the problem of many being outwardly polite but talking about you behind your back. Often I long for someone to speak honestly and outrightly with me. And I had to learn that offers of hospitality weren't really meant, they were just said to sound nice. Also, more churches mean more chances of hypocritical or self-righteous behavior. I don't know if there's less strip clubs here but they definitely are here. NOTE: I'm not cutting down southerners, just being real. Northerners and Southerners both have their (different) good and bad points, in the end just people.

Use Photomail to share photos without annoying attachments.

[Guest guest]

I've been to smalltown Pennsylvania and some of my relatives didn't like the people up there because they were so abrasive. That's a good point you made about the number of churches and the people. I'd still rather live in a smalltown southern state than up north. mikecarrie01 <mikecarrie01@...> wrote: >> It's funny though. You go through the Bible Belt and seldom is heard a > discouraging word. Lots of pleases and thank you sir's and yes > ma'am's. No sh*t, f*ck, G*d damn it, etc. And no strip clubs either.> > Also, there seem to be churches every other block.> > Could there be a correlation here?> It's true about there being not much swearing in the south. When I hear it now

I'm shocked. But I don't think a blanket statement can be made because while swearing is a point with them, something else is not. Like I've noticed often that swearing is a no-no but dirty jokes are okay. There's also the problem of many being outwardly polite but talking about you behind your back. Often I long for someone to speak honestly and outrightly with me. And I had to learn that offers of hospitality weren't really meant, they were just said to sound nice. Also, more churches mean more chances of hypocritical or self-righteous behavior. I don't know if there's less strip clubs here but they definitely are here. NOTE: I'm not cutting down southerners, just being real. Northerners and Southerners both have their (different) good and bad points, in the end just people.

Use Photomail to share photos without annoying attachments.

[Guest guest]

The dipiction of the Crucifixion in that movie shocked people

because they thought it was too brutal and full of too much gore.

In reality, it was probably true to the mark, and this causes people

a sort of guilty trauma. People sin so casually. To think that Jesus

suffered on our behalf in such a fashion makes sinners seem small

and selfish by comparisson.

What follows is a physician's description of what the body endures

during Crucifixion:

http://www.konnections.com/Kcundick/crucifix.html

A Physician Testifies About the Crucifixion

by Dr. C. Truman

About a decade ago, reading Jim Bishop's The Day Christ Died, I

realized that I had for years taken the Crucifixion more or less for

granted -- that I had grown callous to its horror by a too easy

familiarity with the grim details and a too distant friendship with

our Lord. It finally occurred to me that, though a physician, I

didn't even know the actual immediate cause of death. The Gospel

writers don't help us much on this point, because crucifixion and

scourging were so common during their lifetime that they apparently

considered a detailed description unnecessary. So we have only the

concise words of the Evangelists: " Pilate, having scourged Jesus,

delivered Him to them to be crucified -- and they crucified Him. "

I have no competence to discuss the infinite psychic and spiritual

suffering of the Incarnate God atoning for the sins of fallen man.

But it seemed to me that as a physician I might pursue the

physiological and anatomical aspects of our Lord's passonate some

detail. What did the body of Jesus of Nazareth actually endure

during those hours of torture?

This led me first to a study of the practice of crucifixion itself;

that is, torture and execution by fixation to a cross. I am indebted

to many who have studied this subject in the past, and especially to

a contemporary colleague, Dr. Pierre Barbet, a French surgeon who

has done exhaustive historical and experimental research and has

written extensively on the subject.

Apparently, the first known practice of crucifixion was by the

Persians. and his generals brought it back to the

Mediterranean world -- to Egypt and to Carthage. The Romans

apparently learned the practice from the Carthaginians and (as with

almost everything the Romans did) rapidly developed a very high

degree of efficiency and skill at it. A number of Roman authors

(Livy, Cicer, Tacitus) comment on crucifixion, and several

innovations, modifications, and variations are described in the

ancient literature.

For instance, the upright portion of the cross (or stipes) could

have the cross-arm (or patibulum) attached two or three feet below

its top in what we commonly think of as the Latin cross. The most

common form used in our Lord's day, however, was the Tau cross,

shaped like our T. In this cross the patibulum was placed in a notch

at the top of the stipes. There is archeological evidence that it

was on this type of cross that Jesus was crucified.

Without any historical or biblical proof, Medieval and Renaissance

painters have given us our picture of Christ carrying the entire

cross. But the upright post, or stipes, was generally fixed

permanently in the ground at the site of execution and the condemned

man was forced to carry the patibulum, weighing about 110 pounds,

from the prison to the place of execution.

Many of the painters and most of the sculptors of crucifixion, also

show the nails through the palms. Historical Roman accounts and

experimental work have established that the nails were driven

between the small bones of the wrists (radial and ulna) and not

through the palms. Nails driven through the palms will strip out

between the fingers when made to support the weight of the human

body. The misconception may have come about through a

misunderstanding of Jesus' words to , " Observe my hands. "

Anatomists, both modern and ancient, have always considered the

wrist as part of the hand.

A titulus, or small sign, stating the victim's crime was usually

placed on a staff, carried at the front of the procession from the

prison, and later nailed to the cross so that it extended above the

head. This sign with its staff nailed to the top of the cross would

have given it somewhat the characteristic form of the Latin cross.

But, of course, the physical passion of the Christ began in

Gethsemane. Of the many aspects of this initial suffering, the one

of greatest physiological interest is the bloody sweat. It is

interesting that St. Luke, the physician, is the only one to mention

this. He says, " And being in Agony, He prayed the longer. And His

sweat became as drops of blood, trickling down upon the ground. "

Every ruse (trick) imaginable has been used by modern scholars to

explain away this description, apparently under the mistaken

impression that this just doesn't happen. A great deal of effort

could have been saved had the doubters consulted the medical

literature. Though very rare, the phenomenon of Hematidrosis, or

bloody sweat, is well documented. Under great emotional stress of

the kind our Lord suffered, tiny capillaries in the sweat glands can

break, thus mixing blood with sweat. This process might well have

produced marked weakness and possible shock.

After the arrest in the middle of the night, Jesus was next brought

before the Sanhedrin and Caiphus, the High Priest; it is here that

the first physical trauma was inflicted. A soldier struck Jesus

across the face for remaining silent when questioned by Caiphus. The

palace guards then blind-folded Him and mockingly taunted Him to

identify them as they each passed by, spat upon Him, and struck Him

in the face.

In the early morning, battered and bruised, dehydrated, and

exhausted from a sleepless night, Jesus is taken across the

Praetorium of the Fortress Antonia, the seat of government of the

Procurator of Judea, Pontius Pilate. You are, of course, familiar

with Pilate's action in attempting to pass responsibility to Herod

Antipas, the Tetrarch of Judea. Jesus apparently suffered no

physical mistreatment at the hands of Herod and was returned to

Pilate. It was in response to the cries of the mob, that Pilate

ordered Bar-Abbas released and condemned Jesus to scourging and

crucifixion.

There is much disagreement among authorities about the unusual

scourging as a prelude to crucifixion. Most Roman writers from this

period do not associate the two. Many scholars believe that Pilate

originally ordered Jesus scourged as his full punishment and that

the death sentence by crucifixion came only in response to the taunt

by the mob that the Procurator was not properly defending Caesar

against this pretender who allegedly claimed to be the King of the

Jews.

Preparations for the scourging were carried out when the Prisoner

was stripped of His clothing and His hands tied to a post above His

head. It is doubtful the Romans would have made any attempt to

follow the Jewish law in this matter, but the Jews had an ancient

law prohibiting more than forty lashes.

The Roman legionnaire steps forward with the flagrum (or flagellum)

in his hand. This is a short whip consisting of several heavy,

leather thongs with two small balls of lead attached near the ends

of each. The heavy whip is brought down with full force again and

again across Jesus' shoulders, back, and legs. At first the thongs

cut through the skin only. Then, as the blows continue, they cut

deeper into the subcutaneous tissues, producing first an oozing of

blood from the capillaries and veins of the skin, and finally

spurting arterial bleeding from vessels in the underlying muscles.

The small balls of lead first produce large, deep bruises which are

broken open by subsequent blows. Finally the skin of the back is

hanging in long ribbons and the entire area is an unrecognizable

mass of torn, bleeding tissue. When it is determined by the

centurion in charge that the prisoner is near death, the beating is

finally stopped.

The half-fainting Jesus is then untied and allowed to slump to the

stone pavement, wet with His own blood. The Roman soldiers see a

great joke in this provincial Jew claiming to be king. They throw a

robe across His shoulders and place a stick in His hand for a

scepter. They still need a crown to make their travesty complete.

Flexible branches covered with long thorns (commonly used in bundles

for firewood) are plaited into the shape of a crown and this is

pressed into His scalp. Again there is copious bleeding, the scalp

being one of the most vascular areas of the body.

After mocking Him and striking Him across the face, the soldiers

take the stick from His hand and strike Him across the head, driving

the thorns deeper into His scalp. Finally, they tire of their

sadistic sport and the robe is torn from His back. Already having

adhered to the clots of blood and serum in the wounds, its removal

causes excruciating pain just as in the careless removal of a

surgical bandage, and almost as though He were again being whipped

the wounds once more begin to bleed.

In deference to Jewish custom, the Romans return His garments. The

heavy patibulum of the cross is tied across His shoulders, and the

procession of the condemned Christ, two thieves, and the execution

detail of Roman soldiers headed by a centurion begins its slow

journey along the Via Dolorosa. In spite of His efforts to walk

erect, the weight of the heavy wooden beam, together with the shock

produced by copious blood loss, is too much. He stumbles and falls.

The rough wood of the beam gouges into the lacerated skin and

muscles of the shoulders. He tries to rise, but human muscles have

been pushed beyond their endurance.

The centurion, anxious to get on with the crucifixion, selects a

stalwart North African onlooker, Simon of Cyrene, to carry the

cross. Jesus follows, still bleeding and sweating the cold, clammy

sweat of shock, until the 650 yard journey from the fortress Antonia

to Golgotha is finally completed.

Jesus is offered wine mixed with myrrh, a mild analgesic mixture. He

refuses to drink. Simon is ordered to place the patibulum on the

ground and Jesus quickly thrown backward with His shoulders against

the wood. The legionnaire feels for the depression at the front of

the wrist. He drives a heavy, square, wrought-iron nail through the

wrist and deep into the wood. Quickly, he moves to the other side

and repeats the action being careful not to pull the arms to

tightly, but to allow some flexion and movement. The patibulum is

then lifted in place at the top of the stipes and the titulus

reading " Jesus of Nazareth, King of the Jews " is nailed in place.

The left foot is now pressed backward against the right foot, and

with both feet extended, toes down, a nail is driven through the

arch of each, leaving the knees moderately flexed. The Victim is now

crucified. As He slowly sags down with more weight on the nails in

the wrists excruciating pain shoots along the fingers and up the

arms to explode in the brain -- the nails in the writs are putting

pressure on the median nerves. As He pushes Himself upward to avoid

this stretching torment, He places His full weight on the nail

through His feet. Again there is the searing agony of the nail

tearing through the nerves between the metatarsal bones of the feet.

At this point, as the arms fatigue, great waves of cramps sweep over

the muscles, knotting them in deep, relentless, throbbing pain. With

these cramps comes the inability to push Himself upward. Hanging by

his arms, the pectoral muscles are paralyzed and the intercostal

muscles are unable to act. Air can be drawn into the lungs, but

cannot be exhaled. Jesus fights to raise Himself in order to get

even one short breath. Finally, carbon dioxide builds up in the

lungs and in the blood stream and the cramps partially subside.

Spasmodically, he is able to push Himself upward to exhale and bring

in the life-giving oxygen. It was undoubtedly during these periods

that He uttered the seven short sentences recorded:

The first, looking down at the Roman soldiers throwing dice for His

seamless garment, " Father, forgive them for they know not what they

do. "

The second, to the penitent thief, " Today thou shalt be with me in

Paradise. "

The third, looking down at the terrified, grief-stricken adolescent

-- the beloved Apostle -- he said, " Behold thy mother. " Then,

looking to His mother , " Woman behold thy son. "

The fourth cry is from the beginning of the 22nd Psalm, " My God, my

God, why has thou forsaken me? "

Hours of limitless pain, cycles of twisting, joint-rending cramps,

intermittent partial asphyxiation, searing pain where tissue is torn

from His lacerated back as He moves up and down against the rough

timber. Then another agony begins...A terrible crushing pain deep in

the chest as the pericardium slowly fills with serum and begins to

compress the heart.

One remembers again the 22nd Psalm, the 14th verse: " I am poured out

like water, and all my bones are out of joint; my heart is like wax;

it is melted in the midst of my bowels. "

It is now almost over. The loss of tissue fluids has reached a

critical level; the compressed heart is struggling to pump heavy,

thick, sluggish blood into the tissue; the tortured lungs are making

a frantic effort to gasp in small gulps of air. The markedly

dehydrated tissues send their flood of stimuli to the brain.

Jesus gasps His fifth cry, " I thirst. "

One remembers another verse from the prophetic 22nd Psalm: " My

strength is dried up like a potsherd; and my tongue cleaveth to my

jaws; and thou has brought me into the dust of death. "

A sponge soaked in posca, the cheap, sour wine which is the staple

drink of the Roman legionaries, is lifted to His lips. He apparently

doesn't take any of the liquid. The body of Jesus is now in

extremes, and He can feel the chill of death creeping through His

tissues. This realization brings out His sixth words, possibly

little more than a tortured whisper, " It is finished. "

His mission of atonement has completed. Finally He can allow his

body to die.

With one last surge of strength, he once again presses His torn feet

against the nail, straightens His legs, takes a deeper breath, and

utters His seventh and last cry, " Father! Into thy hands I commit my

spirit. "

The rest you know. In order that the Sabbath not be profaned, the

Jews asked that the condemned men be dispatched and removed from the

crosses. The common method of ending a crucifixion was by

crurifracture, the breaking of the bones of the legs. This prevented

the victim from pushing himself upward; thus the tension could not

be relieved from the muscles of the chest and rapid suffocation

occurred. The legs of the two thieves were broken, but when the

soldiers came to Jesus they saw that this was unnecessary.

Apparently to make doubly sure of death, the legionnaire drove his

lance through the fifth interspace between the ribs, upward through

the pericardium and into the heart. The 34th verse of the 19th

chapter of the Gospel according to St. reports: " And

immediately there came out blood and water. " That is, there was an

escape of water fluid from the sac surrounding the heart, giving

postmortem evidence that Our Lord died not the usual crucifixion

death by suffocation, but of heart failure (a broken heart) due to

shock and constriction of the heart by fluid in the pericardium.

Thus we have had our glimpse -- including the medical evidence -- of

that epitome of evil which man has exhibited toward Man and toward

God. It has been a terrible sight, and more than enough to leave us

despondent and depressed. How grateful we can be that we have the

great sequel in the infinite mercy of God toward man -- at once the

miracle of the atonement (at one ment) and the expectation of the

triumphant Easter morning.

---------------------------------------------------------------------

Dr. C. Truman is a nationally respected Opthalmologist, vice

president of the American Association of Ophthalmology, and an

active figure in the Christian schools movement. He is founder and

president of the excellent Trinity Christian School in Mesa Arizona,

and a trustee of Grove City College.

---------------------------------------------------------------------

This work is ©copyrighted by The Review of the NEWS, April 14, 1976

a-name> house of 10,000 corpses which was halfway

decent

I haven't see either of those, I do like horror movies

(some).

I could never understand why so many people complained about the

violence in The Passion of The Christ(maybe because it looked so real

and made people uncomfortable) but you can blow 12 peoples heads off

and noone complains

[Guest guest]

The dipiction of the Crucifixion in that movie shocked people

because they thought it was too brutal and full of too much gore.

In reality, it was probably true to the mark, and this causes people

a sort of guilty trauma. People sin so casually. To think that Jesus

suffered on our behalf in such a fashion makes sinners seem small

and selfish by comparisson.

What follows is a physician's description of what the body endures

during Crucifixion:

http://www.konnections.com/Kcundick/crucifix.html

A Physician Testifies About the Crucifixion

by Dr. C. Truman

About a decade ago, reading Jim Bishop's The Day Christ Died, I

realized that I had for years taken the Crucifixion more or less for

granted -- that I had grown callous to its horror by a too easy

familiarity with the grim details and a too distant friendship with

our Lord. It finally occurred to me that, though a physician, I

didn't even know the actual immediate cause of death. The Gospel

writers don't help us much on this point, because crucifixion and

scourging were so common during their lifetime that they apparently

considered a detailed description unnecessary. So we have only the

concise words of the Evangelists: " Pilate, having scourged Jesus,

delivered Him to them to be crucified -- and they crucified Him. "

I have no competence to discuss the infinite psychic and spiritual

suffering of the Incarnate God atoning for the sins of fallen man.

But it seemed to me that as a physician I might pursue the

physiological and anatomical aspects of our Lord's passonate some

detail. What did the body of Jesus of Nazareth actually endure

during those hours of torture?

This led me first to a study of the practice of crucifixion itself;

that is, torture and execution by fixation to a cross. I am indebted

to many who have studied this subject in the past, and especially to

a contemporary colleague, Dr. Pierre Barbet, a French surgeon who

has done exhaustive historical and experimental research and has

written extensively on the subject.

Apparently, the first known practice of crucifixion was by the

Persians. and his generals brought it back to the

Mediterranean world -- to Egypt and to Carthage. The Romans

apparently learned the practice from the Carthaginians and (as with

almost everything the Romans did) rapidly developed a very high

degree of efficiency and skill at it. A number of Roman authors

(Livy, Cicer, Tacitus) comment on crucifixion, and several

innovations, modifications, and variations are described in the

ancient literature.

For instance, the upright portion of the cross (or stipes) could

have the cross-arm (or patibulum) attached two or three feet below

its top in what we commonly think of as the Latin cross. The most

common form used in our Lord's day, however, was the Tau cross,

shaped like our T. In this cross the patibulum was placed in a notch

at the top of the stipes. There is archeological evidence that it

was on this type of cross that Jesus was crucified.

Without any historical or biblical proof, Medieval and Renaissance

painters have given us our picture of Christ carrying the entire

cross. But the upright post, or stipes, was generally fixed

permanently in the ground at the site of execution and the condemned

man was forced to carry the patibulum, weighing about 110 pounds,

from the prison to the place of execution.

Many of the painters and most of the sculptors of crucifixion, also

show the nails through the palms. Historical Roman accounts and

experimental work have established that the nails were driven

between the small bones of the wrists (radial and ulna) and not

through the palms. Nails driven through the palms will strip out

between the fingers when made to support the weight of the human

body. The misconception may have come about through a

misunderstanding of Jesus' words to , " Observe my hands. "

Anatomists, both modern and ancient, have always considered the

wrist as part of the hand.

A titulus, or small sign, stating the victim's crime was usually

placed on a staff, carried at the front of the procession from the

prison, and later nailed to the cross so that it extended above the

head. This sign with its staff nailed to the top of the cross would

have given it somewhat the characteristic form of the Latin cross.

But, of course, the physical passion of the Christ began in

Gethsemane. Of the many aspects of this initial suffering, the one

of greatest physiological interest is the bloody sweat. It is

interesting that St. Luke, the physician, is the only one to mention

this. He says, " And being in Agony, He prayed the longer. And His

sweat became as drops of blood, trickling down upon the ground. "

Every ruse (trick) imaginable has been used by modern scholars to

explain away this description, apparently under the mistaken

impression that this just doesn't happen. A great deal of effort

could have been saved had the doubters consulted the medical

literature. Though very rare, the phenomenon of Hematidrosis, or

bloody sweat, is well documented. Under great emotional stress of

the kind our Lord suffered, tiny capillaries in the sweat glands can

break, thus mixing blood with sweat. This process might well have

produced marked weakness and possible shock.

After the arrest in the middle of the night, Jesus was next brought

before the Sanhedrin and Caiphus, the High Priest; it is here that

the first physical trauma was inflicted. A soldier struck Jesus

across the face for remaining silent when questioned by Caiphus. The

palace guards then blind-folded Him and mockingly taunted Him to

identify them as they each passed by, spat upon Him, and struck Him

in the face.

In the early morning, battered and bruised, dehydrated, and

exhausted from a sleepless night, Jesus is taken across the

Praetorium of the Fortress Antonia, the seat of government of the

Procurator of Judea, Pontius Pilate. You are, of course, familiar

with Pilate's action in attempting to pass responsibility to Herod

Antipas, the Tetrarch of Judea. Jesus apparently suffered no

physical mistreatment at the hands of Herod and was returned to

Pilate. It was in response to the cries of the mob, that Pilate

ordered Bar-Abbas released and condemned Jesus to scourging and

crucifixion.

There is much disagreement among authorities about the unusual

scourging as a prelude to crucifixion. Most Roman writers from this

period do not associate the two. Many scholars believe that Pilate

originally ordered Jesus scourged as his full punishment and that

the death sentence by crucifixion came only in response to the taunt

by the mob that the Procurator was not properly defending Caesar

against this pretender who allegedly claimed to be the King of the

Jews.

Preparations for the scourging were carried out when the Prisoner

was stripped of His clothing and His hands tied to a post above His

head. It is doubtful the Romans would have made any attempt to

follow the Jewish law in this matter, but the Jews had an ancient

law prohibiting more than forty lashes.

The Roman legionnaire steps forward with the flagrum (or flagellum)

in his hand. This is a short whip consisting of several heavy,

leather thongs with two small balls of lead attached near the ends

of each. The heavy whip is brought down with full force again and

again across Jesus' shoulders, back, and legs. At first the thongs

cut through the skin only. Then, as the blows continue, they cut

deeper into the subcutaneous tissues, producing first an oozing of

blood from the capillaries and veins of the skin, and finally

spurting arterial bleeding from vessels in the underlying muscles.

The small balls of lead first produce large, deep bruises which are

broken open by subsequent blows. Finally the skin of the back is

hanging in long ribbons and the entire area is an unrecognizable

mass of torn, bleeding tissue. When it is determined by the

centurion in charge that the prisoner is near death, the beating is

finally stopped.

The half-fainting Jesus is then untied and allowed to slump to the

stone pavement, wet with His own blood. The Roman soldiers see a

great joke in this provincial Jew claiming to be king. They throw a

robe across His shoulders and place a stick in His hand for a

scepter. They still need a crown to make their travesty complete.

Flexible branches covered with long thorns (commonly used in bundles

for firewood) are plaited into the shape of a crown and this is

pressed into His scalp. Again there is copious bleeding, the scalp

being one of the most vascular areas of the body.

After mocking Him and striking Him across the face, the soldiers

take the stick from His hand and strike Him across the head, driving

the thorns deeper into His scalp. Finally, they tire of their

sadistic sport and the robe is torn from His back. Already having

adhered to the clots of blood and serum in the wounds, its removal

causes excruciating pain just as in the careless removal of a

surgical bandage, and almost as though He were again being whipped

the wounds once more begin to bleed.

In deference to Jewish custom, the Romans return His garments. The

heavy patibulum of the cross is tied across His shoulders, and the

procession of the condemned Christ, two thieves, and the execution

detail of Roman soldiers headed by a centurion begins its slow

journey along the Via Dolorosa. In spite of His efforts to walk

erect, the weight of the heavy wooden beam, together with the shock

produced by copious blood loss, is too much. He stumbles and falls.

The rough wood of the beam gouges into the lacerated skin and

muscles of the shoulders. He tries to rise, but human muscles have

been pushed beyond their endurance.

The centurion, anxious to get on with the crucifixion, selects a

stalwart North African onlooker, Simon of Cyrene, to carry the

cross. Jesus follows, still bleeding and sweating the cold, clammy

sweat of shock, until the 650 yard journey from the fortress Antonia

to Golgotha is finally completed.

Jesus is offered wine mixed with myrrh, a mild analgesic mixture. He

refuses to drink. Simon is ordered to place the patibulum on the

ground and Jesus quickly thrown backward with His shoulders against

the wood. The legionnaire feels for the depression at the front of

the wrist. He drives a heavy, square, wrought-iron nail through the

wrist and deep into the wood. Quickly, he moves to the other side

and repeats the action being careful not to pull the arms to

tightly, but to allow some flexion and movement. The patibulum is

then lifted in place at the top of the stipes and the titulus

reading " Jesus of Nazareth, King of the Jews " is nailed in place.

The left foot is now pressed backward against the right foot, and

with both feet extended, toes down, a nail is driven through the

arch of each, leaving the knees moderately flexed. The Victim is now

crucified. As He slowly sags down with more weight on the nails in

the wrists excruciating pain shoots along the fingers and up the

arms to explode in the brain -- the nails in the writs are putting

pressure on the median nerves. As He pushes Himself upward to avoid

this stretching torment, He places His full weight on the nail

through His feet. Again there is the searing agony of the nail

tearing through the nerves between the metatarsal bones of the feet.

At this point, as the arms fatigue, great waves of cramps sweep over

the muscles, knotting them in deep, relentless, throbbing pain. With

these cramps comes the inability to push Himself upward. Hanging by

his arms, the pectoral muscles are paralyzed and the intercostal

muscles are unable to act. Air can be drawn into the lungs, but

cannot be exhaled. Jesus fights to raise Himself in order to get

even one short breath. Finally, carbon dioxide builds up in the

lungs and in the blood stream and the cramps partially subside.

Spasmodically, he is able to push Himself upward to exhale and bring

in the life-giving oxygen. It was undoubtedly during these periods

that He uttered the seven short sentences recorded:

The first, looking down at the Roman soldiers throwing dice for His

seamless garment, " Father, forgive them for they know not what they

do. "

The second, to the penitent thief, " Today thou shalt be with me in

Paradise. "

The third, looking down at the terrified, grief-stricken adolescent

-- the beloved Apostle -- he said, " Behold thy mother. " Then,

looking to His mother , " Woman behold thy son. "

The fourth cry is from the beginning of the 22nd Psalm, " My God, my

God, why has thou forsaken me? "

Hours of limitless pain, cycles of twisting, joint-rending cramps,

intermittent partial asphyxiation, searing pain where tissue is torn

from His lacerated back as He moves up and down against the rough

timber. Then another agony begins...A terrible crushing pain deep in

the chest as the pericardium slowly fills with serum and begins to

compress the heart.

One remembers again the 22nd Psalm, the 14th verse: " I am poured out

like water, and all my bones are out of joint; my heart is like wax;

it is melted in the midst of my bowels. "

It is now almost over. The loss of tissue fluids has reached a

critical level; the compressed heart is struggling to pump heavy,

thick, sluggish blood into the tissue; the tortured lungs are making

a frantic effort to gasp in small gulps of air. The markedly

dehydrated tissues send their flood of stimuli to the brain.

Jesus gasps His fifth cry, " I thirst. "

One remembers another verse from the prophetic 22nd Psalm: " My

strength is dried up like a potsherd; and my tongue cleaveth to my

jaws; and thou has brought me into the dust of death. "

A sponge soaked in posca, the cheap, sour wine which is the staple

drink of the Roman legionaries, is lifted to His lips. He apparently

doesn't take any of the liquid. The body of Jesus is now in

extremes, and He can feel the chill of death creeping through His

tissues. This realization brings out His sixth words, possibly

little more than a tortured whisper, " It is finished. "

His mission of atonement has completed. Finally He can allow his

body to die.

With one last surge of strength, he once again presses His torn feet

against the nail, straightens His legs, takes a deeper breath, and

utters His seventh and last cry, " Father! Into thy hands I commit my

spirit. "

The rest you know. In order that the Sabbath not be profaned, the

Jews asked that the condemned men be dispatched and removed from the

crosses. The common method of ending a crucifixion was by

crurifracture, the breaking of the bones of the legs. This prevented

the victim from pushing himself upward; thus the tension could not

be relieved from the muscles of the chest and rapid suffocation

occurred. The legs of the two thieves were broken, but when the

soldiers came to Jesus they saw that this was unnecessary.

Apparently to make doubly sure of death, the legionnaire drove his

lance through the fifth interspace between the ribs, upward through

the pericardium and into the heart. The 34th verse of the 19th

chapter of the Gospel according to St. reports: " And

immediately there came out blood and water. " That is, there was an

escape of water fluid from the sac surrounding the heart, giving

postmortem evidence that Our Lord died not the usual crucifixion

death by suffocation, but of heart failure (a broken heart) due to

shock and constriction of the heart by fluid in the pericardium.

Thus we have had our glimpse -- including the medical evidence -- of

that epitome of evil which man has exhibited toward Man and toward

God. It has been a terrible sight, and more than enough to leave us

despondent and depressed. How grateful we can be that we have the

great sequel in the infinite mercy of God toward man -- at once the

miracle of the atonement (at one ment) and the expectation of the

triumphant Easter morning.

---------------------------------------------------------------------

Dr. C. Truman is a nationally respected Opthalmologist, vice

president of the American Association of Ophthalmology, and an

active figure in the Christian schools movement. He is founder and

president of the excellent Trinity Christian School in Mesa Arizona,

and a trustee of Grove City College.

---------------------------------------------------------------------

This work is ©copyrighted by The Review of the NEWS, April 14, 1976

a-name> house of 10,000 corpses which was halfway

decent

I haven't see either of those, I do like horror movies

(some).

I could never understand why so many people complained about the

violence in The Passion of The Christ(maybe because it looked so real

and made people uncomfortable) but you can blow 12 peoples heads off

and noone complains

[Guest guest]

Also the way people complained about Gladiator being violent. Well, what

did they think Gladiators did, play Patty Cake or hop scotch? Same about

the WWII movies. Those people needed to get real. The movies were about

war. War is nasty and brutal and those movies portrayed it well, even if

the landing scene in Saving Private was watered down for the final

cut. But, I'm willing to bet that those same people will go and watch a

horror movie and a gangster shoot-'em-up like the Four Brothers, and

think its the best movie ever.

EXACTLY right,

VISIGOTH@... wrote:

> In a message dated 3/14/2006 12:50:05 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,

> kbtoni@... writes:

>

> I haven't see either of those, I do like horror movies(some).

> I could never understand why so many people complained about the

> violence in The Passion of The Christ(maybe because it looked so real

> and made people uncomfortable) but you can blow 12 peoples heads off

> and noone complains

>

> A very good point. Also the way people complained about Gladiator

> being violent. Well, what did they think Gladiators did, play Patty

> Cake or hop scotch? Same about the WWII movies. Those people needed to

> get real. The movies were about war. War is nasty and brutal and those

> movies portrayed it well, even if the landing scene in Saving Private

> was watered down for the final cut. But, I'm willing to bet that

> those same people will go and watch a horror movie and a gangster

> shoot-'em-up like the Four Brothers, and think its the best movie ever.

>

>

>

>

> FAM Secret Society is a community based on respect, friendship,

> support and acceptance. Everyone is valued.

>

> Don't forget, there are links to other FAM sites on the Links page in

> the folder marked " Other FAM Sites. "

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Also the way people complained about Gladiator being violent. Well, what

did they think Gladiators did, play Patty Cake or hop scotch? Same about

the WWII movies. Those people needed to get real. The movies were about

war. War is nasty and brutal and those movies portrayed it well, even if

the landing scene in Saving Private was watered down for the final

cut. But, I'm willing to bet that those same people will go and watch a

horror movie and a gangster shoot-'em-up like the Four Brothers, and

think its the best movie ever.

EXACTLY right,

VISIGOTH@... wrote:

> In a message dated 3/14/2006 12:50:05 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,

> kbtoni@... writes:

>

> I haven't see either of those, I do like horror movies(some).

> I could never understand why so many people complained about the

> violence in The Passion of The Christ(maybe because it looked so real

> and made people uncomfortable) but you can blow 12 peoples heads off

> and noone complains

>

> A very good point. Also the way people complained about Gladiator

> being violent. Well, what did they think Gladiators did, play Patty

> Cake or hop scotch? Same about the WWII movies. Those people needed to

> get real. The movies were about war. War is nasty and brutal and those

> movies portrayed it well, even if the landing scene in Saving Private

> was watered down for the final cut. But, I'm willing to bet that

> those same people will go and watch a horror movie and a gangster

> shoot-'em-up like the Four Brothers, and think its the best movie ever.

>

>

>

>

> FAM Secret Society is a community based on respect, friendship,

> support and acceptance. Everyone is valued.

>

> Don't forget, there are links to other FAM sites on the Links page in

> the folder marked " Other FAM Sites. "

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

I left out racism and Bible Belt hypocricy.

Sometimes I will turn to the fundamentalist stations on the AM band

while I am driving through corn country and they all preach that God

made us all and he made us each to our purpose and whatever is made by

God should not be denegrated, therefore racism is wrong.

But my own relatives from down south who go to church every Sunday and

listen to nothing but these stations on the radio are racist bigots

anyway.

Tom

Administrator

There's also the problem of many being outwardly polite but

talking about you behind your back.

[Guest guest]

I left out racism and Bible Belt hypocricy.

Sometimes I will turn to the fundamentalist stations on the AM band

while I am driving through corn country and they all preach that God

made us all and he made us each to our purpose and whatever is made by

God should not be denegrated, therefore racism is wrong.

But my own relatives from down south who go to church every Sunday and

listen to nothing but these stations on the radio are racist bigots

anyway.

Tom

Administrator

There's also the problem of many being outwardly polite but

talking about you behind your back.

[Guest guest]

>

> A very good point. Also the way people complained about Gladiator

being

> violent. Well, what did they think Gladiators did, play Patty Cake

or hop scotch?

> Same about the WWII movies. Those people needed to get real. The

movies were

> about war. War is nasty and brutal and those movies portrayed it

well, even

> if the landing scene in Saving Private was watered down for

the final

> cut. But, I'm willing to bet that those same people will go and

watch a horror

> movie and a gangster shoot-'em-up like the Four Brothers, and

think its the

> best movie ever.

>

I saw the 'edited for violence' version of Gladiator and liked it

very much. But I appreciated the realistic hand-to-hand combat in

Braveheart (unedited)even though it was difficult to watch--I think

it's important for people to understand how it really is. Not showing

how war actually is or having heroes get shot at by 3 machine guns

but somehow never getting hit even by a rebounding or stray bullet,

romanticizes violence and children are especially vulnerable to this.

[Guest guest]

>

> A very good point. Also the way people complained about Gladiator

being

> violent. Well, what did they think Gladiators did, play Patty Cake

or hop scotch?

> Same about the WWII movies. Those people needed to get real. The

movies were

> about war. War is nasty and brutal and those movies portrayed it

well, even

> if the landing scene in Saving Private was watered down for

the final

> cut. But, I'm willing to bet that those same people will go and

watch a horror

> movie and a gangster shoot-'em-up like the Four Brothers, and

think its the

> best movie ever.

>

I saw the 'edited for violence' version of Gladiator and liked it

very much. But I appreciated the realistic hand-to-hand combat in

Braveheart (unedited)even though it was difficult to watch--I think

it's important for people to understand how it really is. Not showing

how war actually is or having heroes get shot at by 3 machine guns

but somehow never getting hit even by a rebounding or stray bullet,

romanticizes violence and children are especially vulnerable to this.

[Guest guest]

>

In Pennsylvania and New York there

> seemed to be as many rude people as polite ones in the South. The

Midwest was

> more like the South in that people were generally more polite or at

least

> didn't glare at you just for walking by.

It must be how we're raised and what we're used to. I'm from the

midwest, near Chicago but far enough out to make it somewhere between

suburb and rural and I think it was the absolute perfect balance--hee

hee. I couldn't make it in NYC--the noise and loudness and intensity

and bluntness would overwhelm me. I thought a lot of the people were

very very nice and if I smiled at someone on the streets they would

often smile back or if I asked for directions they would stop and

help, but even so, it would be too intense and sink-or-swim for me.

Many places in the northeast don't appeal to me either--especially

did I find Connecticut to be full of what I perceived as 'rude'

people.

[Guest guest]

I didn't see the movie so I can't comment on the particulars but I

think knowing what Jesus went through is important.

>

> a-name> house of 10,000 corpses which was halfway

> decent

> I haven't see either of those, I do like horror movies

> (some).

> I could never understand why so many people complained about the

> violence in The Passion of The Christ(maybe because it looked so

real

> and made people uncomfortable) but you can blow 12 peoples heads off

> and noone complains

>

[Guest guest]

I didn't see the movie so I can't comment on the particulars but I

think knowing what Jesus went through is important.

>

> a-name> house of 10,000 corpses which was halfway

> decent

> I haven't see either of those, I do like horror movies

> (some).

> I could never understand why so many people complained about the

> violence in The Passion of The Christ(maybe because it looked so

real

> and made people uncomfortable) but you can blow 12 peoples heads off

> and noone complains

>

[Guest guest]

The racism is bad but I won't go off on that. The male chauvenism is

no fun, either. Although the growth in Atlanta has taken away a lot

of it's character, the racism and male chauvenism are a little

better. Black people in certain parts of town had an attitude because

of the racism but they don't now. I used to hate being the recipient

of the anger while being against racism at the same time. Sad

situation. As regards chauvenism I used to get angry at how men

treated me when I came down here and how it's a boy's club but I've

adjusted and it is better. A few years ago when I was particularly

upset about the male chauvenism but had given in (what choice?)and

not yet learned how to deal with it and strike some sort of balance a

company person from Ohio came to our office. Normally male company

people will ignore the women so I was used to that and when this guy

was talking to the women and treated us the same way I kind of

flinched almost and acted like someone who has been abused does when

being treated nicely! He looked at me strangely. It's better now that

I'm older, as well. I've also been the victim of sexual harrassment--

once serious, but that can happen anywhere.

>

> There's also the problem of many being outwardly polite but

> talking about you behind your back.

>

[Guest guest]

I don't like horror, nor violence in any shape or form. Making films about gladiators, war, gangsters, adventure or whatever I see as just an excuse to brutalise people's minds and desensitise them to violence.

I also really dislike the verbal violence, which is usually portrayed as something perfectly natural and normal.

If I wanted to see sex on film, I'd go rent a an X-rated one.

Wouldn't mind a bit less cussing too, but I don't mind it as much as violence. Can't help finding the foul-mouthed Osbournes rather entertaining.

Inger

Re: re:movies are boring

In a message dated 3/14/2006 12:50:05 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, kbtoni@... writes:

I haven't see either of those, I do like horror movies(some). I could never understand why so many people complained about the violence in The Passion of The Christ(maybe because it looked so real and made people uncomfortable) but you can blow 12 peoples heads off and noone complains

A very good point. Also the way people complained about Gladiator being violent. Well, what did they think Gladiators did, play Patty Cake or hop scotch? Same about the WWII movies. Those people needed to get real. The movies were about war. War is nasty and brutal and those movies portrayed it well, even if the landing scene in Saving Private was watered down for the final cut. But, I'm willing to bet that those same people will go and watch a horror movie and a gangster shoot-'em-up like the Four Brothers, and think its the best movie ever.

[Guest guest]

:

> I just saw Citizen Kane, which some say is the best movie ever made but I

> didn't think that much of it.

Me neither. I thought it was confusing and boring.

Did enjoy some of Hitchcocks films though, before he turned too sicko for my

taste. Especially Spellbound, and North by Northwest.

Inger

[Guest guest]

What are some of the Hitchcock sicko films?

Amy

P.S. A propos of nothing, wasn't Hitch an Aspie?

Re: Movies are boring

:> I just saw Citizen Kane, which some say is the best movie ever made but I > didn't think that much of it.Me neither. I thought it was confusing and boring.Did enjoy some of Hitchcocks films though, before he turned too sicko for my taste. Especially Spellbound, and North by Northwest.Inger

[Guest guest]

Amy:

> What are some of the Hitchcock sicko films?

Psycho, Marnie etc. Seems he got more twisted with time. (My opinion.

Others may disagree.)

> P.S. A propos of nothing, wasn't Hitch an Aspie?

No idea. But odd for sure, anyway.

Inger

[Guest guest]

Amy:> What are some of the Hitchcock sicko films? Psycho, Marnie etc. Seems he got more twisted with time. (My opinion. Others may disagree.)

Yes, and then there is The Birds. I haven't seen Marnie.

Family Plot was lighter, and I liked it.> P.S. A propos of nothing, wasn't Hitch an Aspie?No idea. But odd for sure, anyway.

Check out one of his bios -- I think you (all) might find his history interesting ..

[Guest guest]

I love Hitchcock movies. was a good book, too. The opening

line: " Last night I dreamt I went to Manderly again " has a

nostalgic/haunting mix that stays with you and is like the first line

from Out of Africa: " I had a farm in Africa at the foot of the Ngong

Hills. " The author of , Daphne du Maurier, also wrote The Birds

but Hitchcock made it more a thriller.

(Whoa, someone stop me, I'm having a Tangent Trivia Attack.)

Didn't Orson Welles remind you of Kelsey Grammer's Dr. Frasier Crane

character in Frasier? Have you seen that sitcom?

>

> :

> > I just saw Citizen Kane, which some say is the best movie ever made

but I

> > didn't think that much of it.

>

> Me neither. I thought it was confusing and boring.

>

> Did enjoy some of Hitchcocks films though, before he turned too sicko

for my

> taste. Especially Spellbound, and North by Northwest.

>

> Inger

>