Re: Wellbutrin/addictions

[Guest guest]

gail,

i'm very glad you brought up these points about addiction.

here are some thoughts.

though i think i understand your meaning about people who overuse

susbstance, i don't agree at all with you at this point in my life, and i

think oversimplifying things is a very dangerous thing to do.

when i was young in junior high and high school and then college i was very

wary about drugs and alcohol. very much stigmatized by all the hype by

authority figures and so i stayed clear of most of that stuff and tried to

live properly.

then at 21 i had my first bought with cfs. then at 23 i was laid flat and

disabled.

peers who had gone to far more excess than me were running marathons and

getting job promotions. basically everyone i knew was in better health. this

forced me to look at things differently

i notice that you bring up sugar alot and deem it to be 'bad' and this last

thing about alcohol, cigarrettes, etc. well, health can also be an addiction

as can perfection and self righteousnous (not accusing you at all) and these

can be far worse than smoking or drinking. some of the healthiest people i

know are unconcerned with what is talked about on this list, and i try to

examine this and learn something from it.

one of my friends is an alcoholic. when i first met him i was a little bit

disparaging about his habit. but last year a came to another realization. i

watched him drink an enormous amount of hard liquor and then vomit. at this

time i in the middle of liver flushes and sometimes i would vomit myself

just from the walking as it would make stones move that were sitting right

at the bile duct. anyway i asked him some detailed questions about drinking

and it turns out that he vomits up some green liquid when he drinks and

sometimes passes it in his stool. i came to the conclusion that for him

drinking had a survival aspect to it. i think it was his own way of liver

cleansing and this was freeing up bile. alcohol is a solvent and i'll bet it

dissolves stones better than any herb. obviously it is also dangerous too,

but this was a great realization for me. now i look at addiction as

someone's instinctual way to achieve an equilibrium. this also makes it alot

easier to help them because knowing the reason why can help you get to the

root cause, at least at a physical level. more importantly there is no shame

cast upon the person, actually it is the opposite in that it helps them to

see it in a positive light.

now i could look back to myself in junior high school and i can honestly say

that i would have been better being a hard core drug addict than drinking

milk and eating bread every day. one of my docs used to say that wheat was

more addicting than heroin. previous to becoming completely disabled i ook

anibiotics for a long period of time. then to fix the problems they created

i was put on antacids for an entire summer. i can say now that falling prey

to the medical authority was one of the most damaging things of my life. i

would have been better off starting up the habit of cigarrettes and forcing

myself to drink.

still there is more mystery in the issue of metal poisoning and exactly how

bad that is in relation to other substances that the public or government

calls contraband. for some folks, using substance may be the best solution

given their particular condition.

in ayurveda sugar and ice cream is acceptable for the pitta body type as it

is cooling. for the kapha type it is devastating.

a woman who does colonic therapy told me about one of her clients who was a

heroin addict. in one of his colonic sessions he passed a boatload of

bloodworms. the following day his heroin addiction was gone.

an cousin of mine quit smoking after 30 years of use and then gained a huge

amount of weight and died of a heart attack a year later. we have to be

careful of forcing certain issues even if on the surface it seems like it is

healthy.

some people are more in life using drugs than not.

two years ago i tried an illicit natural substance that i had never done

before. i was a bit apprehensive because of people's claims that it was so

powerful. it turned out to be great and i think i disvovered a new property

of this substance in that it cleared some metal out of my brain.

ps i tried wellbutrin ten years ago and i hated it.

[Guest guest]

Re: Wellbutrin/addictions

> gail,

>

> i'm very glad you brought up these points about addiction....

>

> though i think i understand your meaning about people who overuse

> susbstance, i don't agree at all with you at this point in my life, and i

> think oversimplifying things is a very dangerous thing to do...

>

> peers who had gone to far more excess than me were running marathons and

> getting job promotions. basically everyone i knew was in better health. this

> forced me to look at things differently

>

> i notice that you bring up sugar alot and deem it to be 'bad' and this last

> thing about alcohol, cigarrettes, etc. well, health can also be an addiction

> as can perfection and self righteousnous (not accusing you at all) and these

> can be far worse than smoking or drinking. some of the healthiest people i

> know are unconcerned with what is talked about on this list, and i try to

> examine this and learn something from it....

Arthur,

Thank you for this very wise and insightful post. There are indeed many ways to

look at an issue, and you provided some excellent examples in the field of

holistic health. It's easy to be glib about what we think someone else needs to

do -- but they may have good reasons for what they are doing, about which we

don't have a clue.

This is why I try to focus on healing myself, first and foremost. I firmly

believe that the clearer I become, the more I am able to benefit others --

simply by how I behave and through the energy I emit. I give suggestions and

advice when asked, but try to offer them as options rather than " shoulds. " As a

folk singer friend sings, " Don't 'should' on me and I won't 'should' on you. "

Respectfully,

Nenah

Nenah Sylver, PhD

*Information, products, and services related to healing*

=========================================

THE HOLISTIC HANDBOOK OF SAUNA THERAPY

is now available. Order this and also

THE HANDBOOK OF RIFE FREQUENCY HEALING,

at http://www.nenahsylver.com

[Guest guest]

Thats nice Nenah

Dwight Munson

Re: Wellbutrin/addictions

> gail,

>

> i'm very glad you brought up these points about addiction....

>

> though i think i understand your meaning about people who overuse

> susbstance, i don't agree at all with you at this point in my life, and i

> think oversimplifying things is a very dangerous thing to do...

>

> peers who had gone to far more excess than me were running marathons and

> getting job promotions. basically everyone i knew was in better health. this

> forced me to look at things differently

>

> i notice that you bring up sugar alot and deem it to be 'bad' and this last

> thing about alcohol, cigarrettes, etc. well, health can also be an addiction

> as can perfection and self righteousnous (not accusing you at all) and these

> can be far worse than smoking or drinking. some of the healthiest people i

> know are unconcerned with what is talked about on this list, and i try to

> examine this and learn something from it....

Arthur,

Thank you for this very wise and insightful post. There are indeed many ways

to

look at an issue, and you provided some excellent examples in the field of

holistic health. It's easy to be glib about what we think someone else needs

to

do -- but they may have good reasons for what they are doing, about which we

don't have a clue.

This is why I try to focus on healing myself, first and foremost. I firmly

believe that the clearer I become, the more I am able to benefit others --

simply by how I behave and through the energy I emit. I give suggestions and

advice when asked, but try to offer them as options rather than " shoulds. " As

a

folk singer friend sings, " Don't 'should' on me and I won't 'should' on you. "

Respectfully,

Nenah

Nenah Sylver, PhD

*Information, products, and services related to healing*

=========================================

THE HOLISTIC HANDBOOK OF SAUNA THERAPY

is now available. Order this and also

THE HANDBOOK OF RIFE FREQUENCY HEALING,

at http://www.nenahsylver.com

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[Guest guest]

i came to the conclusion that for him

> drinking had a survival aspect to it.<SNIP>

now i look at addiction as

> someone's instinctual way to achieve an equilibrium. <snip>

some people are more in life using drugs than not.

============================

Hi Arthur,

Well, for sure addiction is a complex thing and I don't think we are

really gaining much on it. There are a lot of people addicted to one

thing or another. And yes, I do believe they need compassion and

love. However, coming from an addicted family and marrying into one,

I just don't have any patience for it. Nor do I have the skills to

help them. Even the professionals will sometime not work. It is so

very complex. Some might have started out first to cover up some

sort of pain. And sometimes that pain can be very hard as in child

abuse or whatever. So for them it might be a way of surviving the

abuse at the time. Or some might have just wanted to fit in or

whatever, and then the drug takes over and they find they can't get

off it, yet at the smae time they hate it.

Your comments to me just seem like hogwash. Sorry, but I've been

around drugs so much and only see the destruction it causes not only

for themself but for all those around. I don't think you're doing

them any favors by saying the above. then, again, that might just be

my opinion, fwiw. And don't forget the violance! People aren't more

in life...they are in an altered state and for whatever reason

escaping from the realities of life. This stuff kills. Not only

themself but often also those around them. I'm talking now about

hard core drugs. There are, ofcourse, other addictions as in

relationship addictions, emotional addictions and the likes. I don't

know if those so much kill, but I can't see as how it would be

healthy.

I suppose you can philosophize it until you are blue in the face. I,

for one, do not understand it and it truly grieves me. To whitewash

it or say it is beneficial in any way just doesn't seem like it would

help the one struggling in his/her addiction.

fwiw, but like I said I do not understand the reason why (only have

seen the effects of it).

Gail

[Guest guest]

> when i was young in junior high and high school and then college i was very

> wary about drugs and alcohol. very much stigmatized by all the hype by

> authority figures and so i stayed clear of most of that stuff and tried to

> live properly.

>

> then at 21 i had my first bought with cfs. then at 23 i was laid flat and

> disabled.

>

> peers who had gone to far more excess than me were running marathons and

> getting job promotions. basically everyone i knew was in better health. this

> forced me to look at things differently

Though I understand what you are saying, what you are suggesting - that

one is the cause of the other - is absurd.

Just because some of your friends were doing more things that are

considered unhealthy, and were not *evidencing* any symptoms at the

time, does *not* mean that they were 'healthier' than someone who ate

properly and did not have any vices.

There are many, many cases of people who are *seemingly* the 'picture of

health', who keel over and die of a massive heart attack at 30.

So, to suggest that your problems were because you *didn't* use drugs,

just because you saw people who *did* do drugs and a*appeared* to be

healthier than you, is just plain fallacious logic.

> i notice that you bring up sugar alot and deem it to be 'bad' and this last

> thing about alcohol, cigarrettes, etc. well, health can also be an addiction

Yes - but a much 'healthier' one than drugs... take this from a

recovering drug addict of 17+ years (and no, I haven't been to a

'meeting' in over 16 years).

> as can perfection and self righteousnous (not accusing you at all) and these

> can be far worse than smoking or drinking.

True enough, but to lump these together is simply wrong. Someone can be

'addicted to health' without being self-righteous about it.

> some of the healthiest people i

> know are unconcerned with what is talked about on this list, and i try to

> examine this and learn something from it.

Again - they may *seem* to be healthy - but if they are eating the

S.A.D. diet, they are slowly but surely killing themselves.

Some people inherit very strong genes - due to their ancestors doing the

*right* things for a long time. But *any* familial line *will*

degenerate, if the successive generations continue to poison their bodies.

> now i could look back to myself in junior high school and i can honestly say

> that i would have been better being a hard core drug addict than drinking

> milk and eating bread every day.

Maybe - and maybe not. There is simply no way of telling. You may be

*dead* right now if you had used drugs.

> i was put on antacids for an entire summer. i can say now that falling prey

> to the medical authority was one of the most damaging things of my life. i

> would have been better off starting up the habit of cigarrettes and forcing

> myself to drink.

Lol... Art, you sure have a way with words...

> an cousin of mine quit smoking after 30 years of use and then gained a huge

> amount of weight and died of a heart attack a year later.

The fact that he gained a lot of weight says it all - he was not living

a healthy lifestyle.

> some people are more in life using drugs than not.

Depends on a lot of things...