Re: Re: Not a Hippie

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KUDZO Thanks everyone, for the definition.Kudzo! I love Raven's response. "Gesundheit!"Sounds like a sneeze!  Rainbow

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I find it hard to believe that people so 'enlightened' would display such blatant idiocy, hatefulness, and closed minded apathy. environmental1st2003 <no_reply > wrote: What I know about Vietnam war protesters I have learned from people who have served there, some of whom have served willingly, others who were drafted against their will, and all of whom were protested against. What they told me was that these protesters, if they were protesting the people who fought the war willingly rather than making a blanket protest against everyone, would have been more easily received. Instead the protestors slammed everyone, including those who were too loyal to their country to burn their draft cards of go absent without leave. The protestors, in otherwords, were prejudicial in thinking

everyone who fought the war believed in what they were doing. They were prejudicial in thinking that everyone could burn their draft cards or go AWOL so easily. It strikes me that protestors that would behave in such a fashion were an unsympathetic mob intent on promoting their own ideas, insulting anyone who didn't believe as they do, and generally raising a stink without recognizing that their right to behave so rudely was being preserved by the people they were protesting against. I also know that in subsequent years, family members of my neighbor who protested about his own involvement in the war apologized to him and stated that they should have protested against the government, not him.So I am not telepathic, and the idea that you would accuse me of speculation is insulting.TomAdministratorI agree. They could not help having been sent there and just didtheir job. Demonstrations should have been directed at thoseresponsible.Inger Re: Re: Not a HippieOther then that I am sort of "upset" at the hippies for theregreeting to those that came from vietnam.

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In a message dated 3/8/2006 7:57:33 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, inglori@... writes:

That is really bad taste, and very uncompassionate!

I agree that it does give a bad name to the peace movement. :-(

Inger

It does. Unfortunately it is happening more and more often.

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Maybe it's one of those zen things... :-)

Inger

Re: Not a Hippie

The fact that kudzu is something, and kudzo isn't. LOL! I looked up

kudzo in the dictionary and it's not there and googled kudzo and

got 'did you mean kudzu?' Yes!

> > >

> > > Re:

> > >

> > >

> > > > I think clearing kudzo wouldn't be random, it would take a

huge

> > > > determined, definite, methodical, systematic, ordered,

> particular

> > > > effort! LOL!

> > >

> > > Did you know that, in some Asian countries, people consider

kudzu

> a

> > > valuable natural resource? In Japan (where kudzu originated),

> people

> > > eat it in salads, make flour and fiber out of it, cook it in

soup

> > and

> > > as a vegetable, and do other things that I have forgotten.

> > > So if we want to control kudzu (as the Japanese have done

> for

> > > centuries), we don't need to clear it away ... we just need to

> learn

> > > how to use it!

> > >

> > > Or if we didn't want to use our kudzu (if most Americans just

> > couldn't

> > > learn to like the taste, or something), we could just export it

to

> > > Asian countries that *do* like it and use it ... (not to Japan:

> they

> > > have various trade embargoes on crops and livestock from the

USA -

>

> > but

> > > to other countries that would buy our kudzu if we had the wit to

> > sell

> > > it to them).

> > >

> > >

> > > Yours for better letters,

> > > Kate Gladstone

> > > Handwriting Repair and the World Handwriting Contest

> > > handwritingrepair@

> > > http://learn.to/handwrite,

> > http://www.global2000.net/handwritingrepair

> > > 325 South Manning Boulevard

> > > Albany, New York 12208-1731 USA

> > > telephone 518/482-6763

> > > AND REMEMBER ...

> > > you can order books through my site!

> > > (Amazon.com link -

> > > I get a 5% - 15% commission on each book sold)

> > >

> >

>

>

>

>

>

>

> FAM Secret Society is a community based on respect, friendship,

support and

> acceptance. Everyone is valued.

>

> Don't forget, there are links to other FAM sites on the Links page

in the

> folder marked " Other FAM Sites. "

>

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> Inger: "Maybe it's one of those zen things... :-)"Or, one of those zin things, should someone wine about it!  Rainbow

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Truly insightful. Now I have a better grasp on the subject.Inger Lorelei <inglori@...> wrote: :> I've heard this too--that some protestors (not all of course) wereopportunists and using the situation for their own ends--to fomentanarchy and anti-goverment statements, kind of like terrorism.That's unfortunately not too uncommon with any protest group. Either someone starts or supports a movement for their own agenda (e.g. anti-nuclear campaigns secretly funded/guided by the oil industry) or they hijack it along the way, or they disrupt legitimate and peaceful demonstrations to give the majority of peaceful demonstrators a bad name.This happened here at the WTO-meeting in Gothemburg, where masked trouble-makers came here from other parts of Europe to deliberately make it violent, which the

original organizers had in no way intended. It would not surprise me one bit if some of those were planted by the very powers they were pretending to protest against, so as to give an excuse for police to attack back and beat up/lock up serious, peaceful demonstrators and trouble-making riff-raff indiscriminately.Or else they might be misguided youth with too much adrenalin and not enough excitement in their lives. Very annoying, either way. Especially since that gives an image of ALL demonstrators being like that - which is not the case at all - and invariably achieves the goal of moving the focus from the issue being protested against, onto the rioting and who did what.Inger

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I registered with the Selective Service (AKA the Draft Board) on December 7, 1990. That was the day I turned 18 and so by the law I went to the post office and signed the form. Didn't get a card though since the draft was not active.

The point about those protestors and the ones that are protesting at funerals today is that they are a small minority, even among the other anti-war people. People that should have their butts kicked by the people attending the funeral for being such jackasses, but that would something I think most Americans would see and justified. I think it would be worth fighting for the majority, even if those people benefited too.

One of my high school teachers was a self-described "burned-out hippy." Yes, we had an old back to nature hippy teaching at a military school. Once you go to know him, that wasn't as odd as it seems. He built his own house maybe 10 miles from campus and had a little farm that he worked in the summer and his off time during the school year, where he had some crops, chickens and cows. He was also the one who instilled in me the idea that you should try to live your life peacefully and never fight unless it was life or death, and then fight to kill.

This fellow told me a few times about some of the protests during the Vietnam War. He did not go because he was never called up by the draft. Interestingly, he said a lot of the times he went to the protests only to meet girls, not because he cared about the protests. He also told me that at several of them, he saw the organizers whip the crowd into a frenzy then run away when the fighting started, leaving the college kids and other citizens to get beaten up while they made their escape. At one college protest, I don't recall which college, he got a funny feeling about how things were going especially in this building the students had taken over. Since he was just there to meet girls he cleared out. When the police rushed the crowd and the building, he saw the leaders of the protest who had just been out front telling the people to fight, jumping out back windows of the building and running to nearby cars and took off. The police vs. protestor fight went on for about half and hour after that.

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In a message dated 3/9/2006 1:29:41 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, nathaninfortuna@... writes:

No one wanted 9/11 but the threats and risks of terrorism logically and conclusively existed prior to that event. Still peace envisioned within the mind by some is a blind peace and is not stratigically logical nor able to properly defend itself nor others.

Who are quite right. Islamic terror attacks have been going on since the 1970's and maybe earlier, particularly is you include the Turkish genocide against Armenian Christians that resulted in about 1 million deaths (the happened shortly after WWI, the world knew, yawned and Hitler noticed). Under the Clinton administration there was one very nearly successful attempt to bring down the World Trade Center and a number of other terror attacks but there was no real response. Around 1996, Sudan offered to give us Bin Laudin because he was causing trouble for them and he was on our wanted lists. However, terrorism was considered a "law enforcement problem" and not one for the military, so nothing was done and Bin Laudin moved to Afghanistan and we had 9/11. The practical thing to have done would have been to pay Sudan well for them, and for secrecy, sent Delta Force to collect Bin Laudin and his top men, and pitch them out the back of a plane over the ocean somewhere, just make them disappear.

Underhanded and shady yes, but the world would be a far safer place without him. Without the 9/11 attacks he planned, there would have been no basis for invading Afghanistan and It would have been next to impossible to rally world support to take down Sadaam. In addition, though it would be a secret or at least a denied action, the people who needed to know, the other terrorists out there, would learn the truth about Bin Laudin and that would scare the crud out of them, that that might happen to them too one day if they messed with the US. It worked for the Russians. Some of their people were kidnapped in Lebanon. The KGB took a few hostages from the right people's families and delivered to those right people certain parts of the hostages anatomies. Very soon after the Russian hostages were released and none we ever taken again.

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I may not like what you have to say, but I would fight to the death for your right to say it. Who said something like that in history? "To be blunt: I would rather commit suicide then defend such people. I am not going to fight for a bunch of stoners and loshers who have no known direction and no known purpose, even unto themselves except to protest those who would defend their better interests."I'm from this planet, the rest of you are not.Please go back to Mars or Venushttp://www.simplecomplexities.org/community/

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Yes, I do not often pay much attention to most of what goes on. I have seen veterans for peace on the road before in Eureka ir Arcata California. It is one man who sits in a lawn chair with an umbrella promoting anti-war and he is a vet. He was there two times that I went thus far. No matter the foolishness, as I know that the vision of dreams of no war is a false peace. It is as if some whom are blind to logical reason appear to dismiss the fact that if everyone refuses war then those that refuse it will be attacked by those of war, such as a

foreign enemy and WWII with Japan. No one wants war, some wars are also not clearly needed particularly at the time. No one wanted 9/11 but the threats and risks of terrorism logically and conclusively existed prior to that event. Still peace envisioned within the mind by some is a blind peace and is not stratigically logical nor able to properly defend itself nor others. environmental1st2003 <no_reply > wrote: Not in this particular instance though. In this instance you had a bunch of people who didn't know what they believed harrassing veterans and underminding

the ability of the United Dates Government to win the war by turning the people against it.Thus here you had the little fish manipulating the sharks as they pleased. I saw the same thing during Gulf War I.It sickened me in college to see protesters walking down the street protesting the war, and then get in their big-ass SUVS and drive to the campus common, burn a tire, start smoking grass, and sing "Give peace a chance." I notice the pot smoking lasted about five hours whereas the actual march took half an hour. I wondered if spectators who just happened on the scene would wonder what these people were protesting. The war, or anti-pot laws.Good thing the cops broke it up. The whole thing was an embarrassment to the school. Particularly the march portion of the protest where the ROTC, Army, Navy, and Air Force Reserve personnel were held back by police in a confined area outside the

parade route so they couldn'ty interfere with the protestors or make their own voices heard.One of those guys that were cordoned off and made to shut up got shipped off to the war and got killed. I only hope the assholes that protested because it was "cool" to protest enjoyed their five hours of getting high. It's people like the Army guy who got killed that died for the right for those potheads to snub their noses at American US Service Personnel.I can agree with people who fight for peace. But war protestors like those I have described above make me sick.TomAdministratorI'll leave it alone now, though, since we seem to more or less agree on the basic issue; that here, as so many other times in history, the little guy just doing his job gets the brunt for what the big fish order them do, while the

sharks can keep playing their power games unperturbed, using people like chess pawns as they please.IngerI'm from this planet, the rest of you are not.Please go back to Mars or Venushttp://www.simplecomplexities.org/community/

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There are an increasing number of discontents within society, one idelogy will alienate the other from eachothers P.V (point of view) as to justify itself. I think there needs to be a general maturity development within society that understands that there are differences in general but unity should be found by the premises in which we all can oblige, in essential respects and dignities. Sort as if minds are more understanding of one another, less tempormental and certainly straight forward but not subsiding to irrational disputes sociopolically. Psychological understanding one another by increasing the prevalence’s of rational teachings such as psychological concepts starting early on in public

education would be good. strictnon_conformist <no_reply > wrote: I'm not sure, , but I'm with Tom on this one: people who refuseto do anything in regards to using their rights other than to use themblindly deserve to be left to their own devices: they deserve nodefense by the efforts and lives of others. If they willinglyparticipate in something they don't believe in, they're hypocrites ofthe worst kind: they don't even fight for what they believe in.

Asthe old saying goes: if you stand for nothing, you'll fall foranything. I say, let them fall, but let them go and do so quietly,without disturbing others along the way.>> I may not like what you have to say, but I would fight to the deathfor your right to say it.> > Who said something like that in history?> > > "To be blunt: I would rather commit suicide then defend such people. I > am not going to fight for a bunch of stoners and loshers who have no > known direction and no known purpose, even unto themselves except to > protest those who would defend their better interests."> > > > I'm from this planet, the rest of you are not.> Please go back to Mars or Venus> http://www.simplecomplexities.org/community/> > ---------------------------------> > Bring photos to life! New PhotoMail makes sharing a breeze.>I'm from this planet, the rest of you are not.Please go back to Mars or Venushttp://www.simplecomplexities.org/community/

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In a message dated 3/9/2006 9:49:25 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, no_reply writes:

I don't know whether this is true or not, but one of my high school history teachers said there was a minor terrorist attacks in The former USSR and when the men who did it were caught, they were castrated by the KGB and returned to their families with their genitals crammed down their throats.TomAdministrator

That is one version that I have heard. The other is that the men were emasculated but not killed, but the understanding was that they would be unless the hostages were released.

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In a message dated 3/9/2006 2:02:59 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, inglori@... writes:

Sweden was never part of Nato, and thus not under your 'protection'.

That's a debatable point. Sweden was part of the European Economic sphere and occupies a somewhat strategic location. So, it is unlikely that NATO would have would have stood by and allowed Sweden to be attacked by Russia or another Warsaw Pact country. Therefore, even though not officially a part of NATO, Sweden still gained protection from it.

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In a message dated 3/9/2006 3:34:24 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, julie.stevenson16@... writes:

I also believe if a cause is worth dying for it's even better to live for it :-)

I prefer the way my cousin General Patton looked at it. He told his soldiers, "I don't want you to die for your country, but make that other poor son of a bitch die for his!", or something like that.

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In a message dated 3/9/2006 4:35:59 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, inglori@... writes:

To the point:

No disrespect to your cousin, but such statements/sentiments as Patton's frankly scare me.

Isn't that other "son of a bitch" more likely a "son of a caring mother" just like yourself? Won't she be as sad to lose him as yours would be? Aren't we all HUMAN? Why do we need to keep KILLING each other?? And then parade it as if it is something to be proud of? I really don't get it. Sorry.

I guess I'm just too naive for this planet. :-(

Inger

The point Patton was trying to make was that live soldiers were more important than dead heroes. He wanted his men to fight skillfully and well, but not take undue risks. If the enemy took undue risks, then take advantage of it.

The point other, which you see to addressing, is that, from an American perspective, the fewer grieving American mothers the better. If that meant more grieving German mothers, then that is the way it has to be. Do bear in mind that the Nazis started WWII and the Germans gave Hitler very high approval ratings up through even the invasion of Poland and France. The Nazis also were committing mass genocide everywhere they went. So, lives were well spent stopping them.

However, I did like Winston Churchill's preference, to let the Nazis and Communists bleed each other white and then for the Allies to defeat the weakened winner of that contest.

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> Tom: "....... to the defense of disdainful, snobby people like you."Somebody put this guy on moderation!This is the 'definition' of a personal attack!  Rainbow

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> Inger: "Peace?"Ahhhh, now isn't that just what being a hippie is/was all about?Proud to be one,Let me repeat that I, personally, was drafted into the Vietnam 'war' and filed for Conscientious Objector to War status. I was the first, and probably only, person from my home town to ever have been granted such status. The draft law itself made it clear in a tiny, fine print footnote, on the very bottom of the last page, that if one believed in God, and had a moral objection to violence, one might 'serve' the people of the United States by performing an 'alternative' service that would be in the interest of the health and safety of our citizens. I was granted this status, labeled 'C.O.', in light of the fact that, to prove my sincerity, I was already working as an Occupational Therapy Aide in a local psychiatric hospital. I continued in this position for a full two years, the equivalent time one would have spent in the army.  Rainbow

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In a message dated 3/10/2006 11:30:19 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, inglori@... writes:

I think it was back in the 1600s, possibly between the German and French. A battle was scheduled at dawn the next day. But just before dawn a messenger from one of the sides arrived into the enemy camp with a letter saying that their soldiers had no clean lace cuffs left, so if they could please postpone the battle for another day so as to have time to wash them? They were granted this extra time. To fight in dirty cuffs - unthinkable! How barbaric!

That's the first I have heard of that. It could be true, though I suspect that if it did happen, it was more of a ploy to buy time than actual concern about wardrobe.

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In a message dated 3/10/2006 11:30:19 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, inglori@... writes:

I think it was back in the 1600s, possibly between the German and French. A battle was scheduled at dawn the next day. But just before dawn a messenger from one of the sides arrived into the enemy camp with a letter saying that their soldiers had no clean lace cuffs left, so if they could please postpone the battle for another day so as to have time to wash them? They were granted this extra time. To fight in dirty cuffs - unthinkable! How barbaric!

That's the first I have heard of that. It could be true, though I suspect that if it did happen, it was more of a ploy to buy time than actual concern about wardrobe.

[Guest guest]

Is this where they get the saying fist to cuffs, or whatever it is?

Inger Lorelei wrote:

> That's a cute story.

>

> Reminds me of another war story (can't swear as to it's authenticity but

> this is what I heard anyway, can correct me if he knows more

> about

> it).

>

> I think it was back in the 1600s, possibly between the German and

> French. A

> battle was scheduled at dawn the next day. But just before dawn a

> messenger

> from one of the sides arrived into the enemy camp with a letter saying

> that

> their soldiers had no clean lace cuffs left, so if they could please

> postpone the battle for another day so as to have time to wash them? They

> were granted this extra time. To fight in dirty cuffs - unthinkable! How

> barbaric!

>

> :-)

>

> Inger

>

>

> Re: Re: Not a Hippie

> >

> >

> > In a message dated 3/9/2006 3:34:24 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,

> julie.stevenson16@... writes:

> > I also believe if a cause is worth dying for it's even better to

> live

> > for it :-)

> >

> >

> >

> > I prefer the way my cousin General Patton looked at it. He told his

> soldiers, " I don't want you to die for your country, but make that

> other poor son of a bitch die for his! " , or something like that.

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > FAM Secret Society is a community based on respect, friendship,

> support and acceptance. Everyone is valued.

> >

> > Don't forget, there are links to other FAM sites on the Links page

> in the folder marked " Other FAM Sites. "

> >

> >

> >

> >

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I have no idea if it's true. I think it was my Aspie XH who found it in some book. Just thought it was cute.

Inger

Re: Re: Not a Hippie

In a message dated 3/10/2006 11:30:19 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, inglori@... writes:

I think it was back in the 1600s, possibly between the German and French. A battle was scheduled at dawn the next day. But just before dawn a messenger from one of the sides arrived into the enemy camp with a letter saying that their soldiers had no clean lace cuffs left, so if they could please postpone the battle for another day so as to have time to wash them? They were granted this extra time. To fight in dirty cuffs - unthinkable! How barbaric!

That's the first I have heard of that. It could be true, though I suspect that if it did happen, it was more of a ploy to buy time than actual concern about wardrobe.