Re: Re: Excellent Link (and me venting big time - no need to respond to my vent lol)

July 11, 2006

One of my girlfriends who was a child care provider, she had twins, they were supposed to go in for their shots, but one of the twins was ill. The well twin was vaccinated, his development had been completely normal, he went from a regular happy, communicating almost 2 year old to a profoundly non verbal autistic boy. I agree that it is the thimerosol, not the vaccines themselves. Until I know 110% that all of the vaccines (even the stockpiled ones) have zero mercury/metals in them, I will NOT vaccinate my kids. I will probably have to pull my daughter Sara out of school during the flu season, because she has life endangering asthma, but I am ok with that. Continuing to give Hope the flu vaccination or any of us for that reason, is not something I would ever be willing to do again. cubicmonica <cubicmonica@...> wrote: When my son was first diagnosed with autism, I was very skeptical about the mercury/autism link. I felt it the theory was caused by parents that wanted something or someone to blame and that not vaccinating was irresponsible. As time went on, the claims seemed to make more and more sense. What really got my attention is a lady I met that became autistic at the age of 8 - right after she got the MMR. How do I respond to that? She had a son that was diagnosed with Kanner's autism (born with it - never developed). She was told he would probably never learn to

walk and talk. She believe however he was poisoned by the metals in his Hepatitis B vaccine which is given in the hospital at birth. She did chelation and now he is only a couple years behind developmentally (I think he is about 8 or 9 now).I do not believe vaccines are the cause of autism though. Metal poisoning is. The mercury and aluminum in vaccines is one source of metal poisoning but not the only source. Until this is recognized, the claim of vaccine injury will continue to be laughed off because what about the kids that have never been vaccinated but are autistic. Other sources of metals can be antimony and arsenic from beds and bedding, various metals in water or cookware, dental work and a whole assortment of metals from mom during pregnancy. I believe my primary source of metals was from medication my mom was given while she was pregnant while she was pregnant. The level of mercury in it made her

lose all her hair which never grew back. I am aspergers. I'm sure I gave my kids a load of their own before they were born.I used to talk to another mom in my homeschool group about the dangers of mercury and I could tell by her demeanor she did not believe it. Less than a year later she sought me out for more information. Her pre-teen son had dental work done with amalgam fillings. All of a sudden, he has multiple food intolerances, slurring his speech, forgetting things such as how to write, odd stims and behaviour problems. The more she described how he had changed in a matter of a month, the more it sounded like autism.After looking at the medical records and comparing dates of vaccines vs. health issues, I have noticed a connection. My oldest son started having symptoms of Rheumatoid Arthritis a week after his MMR. My 3rd, autistic child started to regress right after his MMR. My 4th son started

having symptoms of celiac disease (which is genetic yet requires some sort of trauma to trigger it) right after his DPT. Something is going on here.What has even further convinced me autism is metal poisoning is the number of moms I have met in my autism support group that have done chelation. Before chelation, they would discuss how frustrated they are with slow progress but though some have slow progress, some have had near-miraculous changes in an extremely short period of time. I just couldn't say it was a coincidence.I have heard time and again about adults on the spectrum that say they like who they are and would not want to be "cured". This is not surprising. One of the big issues for those of us on the spectrum is avoiding change. To be cured would make life different from what we know it to be. That is unimaginable. The lower functioning one is, I'm sure the harder it would seem to be.To want

our kids to get better has nothing to do with accepting them. It is wanting the best for them. Even NT adults like to do things to better themselves. They read self-help books, take adult school classes or work toward another degree. They go on diets and work out at the gym. This is not an issue of acceptance but our natural desire to be all we can be. I can't buy that autism would ever be preferred if one were to understand the other side. Who likes being teased? Who like hurting other's feelings because they don't understand how their words might be taken? Who likes having so many food intolerances and the pain and/or bowel issues that go along with it? I just don't buy it.I will never accept the statement that autism is genetic. It is just not possible to have an epidemic from a genetic condition. It used to be 1 in 10,000 but now is 1 in 150. That is scientifically impossible. Some argue that it is just

because they were misdiagnosed before. If that is the case, the number of those with diagnosis of MR or other conditions would go down but that has not been the case. There was a study done in the state of California funded by the government to determine the validity of accusations that the increase is due to changes in diagnosis. The final determination is that autism has increased and could not be explained in any other way. The only thing I can believe could be genetic is the degree in which the body can naturally eliminate metals on it's own.I do like who I am and recognize the skills I have that I can attribute to autism. The negatives however outweigh the positives. As a parent of both NT and ASD kids, I can see what life should be like. As I am searching for answers for my son, I am also doing what I can to make myself better. So far, my life has been better for it.>> Immunization does not cause autism. Autism is an inborn difference in > neural and brain structure, and is believed by the majority of > researchers to be genetic. There have been numerous studies that prove > absolutely that there is no connection. There is a condition, I > believe, that may mimic autism in children with mercury sensitivity, but > it isn't autism....just looks like it. If your children have a firm > diagnosis of autism, it's possible that this other condition is what is > going on with them.> > BTW, my son Louie (26, HFA/AS) never *had* his MMR because he got the > diseases before the injection was available. But he's been different > since we brought him home from the hospital. I have another child and 5

> younger brothers and sisters, so I've seen plenty of typical babies. > Louie was born as he is, God made him as he is, and what caused it is > immaterial to me. What is material to me is ensuring that his life is a > pleasant and normal one...which we did 5 years ago when he moved into > assisted living and started working. He has told me, as well, that if > there was a cure, he wouldn't want it. He likes who he is. He has > said, however, that there should be some med that the "other people" > (his phrase for anyone not autistic) could take that would make them > nicer to him and his roomies and other auties.> > He's a good guy. And a normal, typical, autistic person. > > Annie, who loves ya annie@...> -- > Some people strengthen the society just by being the kind of people they > are. -- W.

Gardner> If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they wentWill There is no psychiatrist in the world like a puppy licking your face.Ben A dog is the only thing on earth that loves you more than he loveshimself.Josh Billings

Talk is cheap. Use Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls. Great rates starting at 1¢/min.

July 11, 2006

Hi ,

Well we do know that vaccinations can damage kids, otherwise why would the have the Childhood Vaccination Compensation Act? This was created for parents to apply to the federal government if their child has been damaged by a vaccination. I tried to get that once for my son Marty, whose symptoms of seizures started after his fourth in a series of DPT vaccinations. This was in 1966, and they have improved the vaccinations since then, they thought it was the P that could cause seizures in some kids, it is for pertussis, or whooping cough.

At any rate, we have our children vaccinated to prevent illnesses, you have to weigh the probabilities of what is more dangerous for the child, to get sick with this particular disease, or perhaps suffer one of the rare side affects, such as uncontrollable life time seizures, brain damage, autism symptoms......etc.

Oh, I was going to say I couldn't get the compensation because my son's case is so old, and also there had to be certain criteria, like he had to get a high fever that lasted at least 24 hours, and constant screaming I think the report stated. He didn't get that sick, had a fever, it swelled some, then the little jerks, that over the years turned into seizures.

But even now we have no idea what caused them, could have been the vaccinations, but we don't know.

Also, all my grandchildren have been vaccinated, and hand outs were given as to possible side affects, those weren't given out in '66, so the parent can make an informed decision, and choose whether to do it or not, and risk their child getting some very serious diseases.

Being a parent aint easy, or a grandparent!

Carolyn

Re: Excellent Link (and me venting big time - no need to respond to my vent lol)

When my son was first diagnosed with autism, I was very skeptical about the mercury/autism link. I felt it the theory was caused by parents that wanted something or someone to blame and that not vaccinating was irresponsible. As time went on, the claims seemed to make more and more sense. What really got my attention is a lady I met that became autistic at the age of 8 - right after she got the MMR. How do I respond to that? She had a son that was diagnosed with Kanner's autism (born with it - never developed). She was told he would probably never learn to walk and talk. She believe however he was poisoned by the metals in his Hepatitis B vaccine which is given in the hospital at birth. She did chelation and now he is only a couple years behind developmentally (I think he is about 8 or 9 now).I do not believe vaccines are the cause of autism though. Metal poisoning is. The mercury and aluminum in vaccines is one source of metal poisoning but not the only source. Until this is recognized, the claim of vaccine injury will continue to be laughed off because what about the kids that have never been vaccinated but are autistic. Other sources of metals can be antimony and arsenic from beds and bedding, various metals in water or cookware, dental work and a whole assortment of metals from mom during pregnancy. I believe my primary source of metals was from medication my mom was given while she was pregnant while she was pregnant. The level of mercury in it made her lose all her hair which never grew back. I am aspergers. I'm sure I gave my kids a load of their own before they were born.I used to talk to another mom in my homeschool group about the dangers of mercury and I could tell by her demeanor she did not believe it. Less than a year later she sought me out for more information. Her pre-teen son had dental work done with amalgam fillings. All of a sudden, he has multiple food intolerances, slurring his speech, forgetting things such as how to write, odd stims and behaviour problems. The more she described how he had changed in a matter of a month, the more it sounded like autism.After looking at the medical records and comparing dates of vaccines vs. health issues, I have noticed a connection. My oldest son started having symptoms of Rheumatoid Arthritis a week after his MMR. My 3rd, autistic child started to regress right after his MMR. My 4th son started having symptoms of celiac disease (which is genetic yet requires some sort of trauma to trigger it) right after his DPT. Something is going on here.What has even further convinced me autism is metal poisoning is the number of moms I have met in my autism support group that have done chelation. Before chelation, they would discuss how frustrated they are with slow progress but though some have slow progress, some have had near-miraculous changes in an extremely short period of time. I just couldn't say it was a coincidence.I have heard time and again about adults on the spectrum that say they like who they are and would not want to be "cured". This is not surprising. One of the big issues for those of us on the spectrum is avoiding change. To be cured would make life different from what we know it to be. That is unimaginable. The lower functioning one is, I'm sure the harder it would seem to be.To want our kids to get better has nothing to do with accepting them. It is wanting the best for them. Even NT adults like to do things to better themselves. They read self-help books, take adult school classes or work toward another degree. They go on diets and work out at the gym. This is not an issue of acceptance but our natural desire to be all we can be. I can't buy that autism would ever be preferred if one were to understand the other side. Who likes being teased? Who like hurting other's feelings because they don't understand how their words might be taken? Who likes having so many food intolerances and the pain and/or bowel issues that go along with it? I just don't buy it.I will never accept the statement that autism is genetic. It is just not possible to have an epidemic from a genetic condition. It used to be 1 in 10,000 but now is 1 in 150. That is scientifically impossible. Some argue that it is just because they were misdiagnosed before. If that is the case, the number of those with diagnosis of MR or other conditions would go down but that has not been the case. There was a study done in the state of California funded by the government to determine the validity of accusations that the increase is due to changes in diagnosis. The final determination is that autism has increased and could not be explained in any other way. The only thing I can believe could be genetic is the degree in which the body can naturally eliminate metals on it's own.I do like who I am and recognize the skills I have that I can attribute to autism. The negatives however outweigh the positives. As a parent of both NT and ASD kids, I can see what life should be like. As I am searching for answers for my son, I am also doing what I can to make myself better. So far, my life has been better for it.>> Immunization does not cause autism. Autism is an inborn difference in > neural and brain structure, and is believed by the majority of > researchers to be genetic. There have been numerous studies that prove > absolutely that there is no connection. There is a condition, I > believe, that may mimic autism in children with mercury sensitivity, but > it isn't autism....just looks like it. If your children have a firm > diagnosis of autism, it's possible that this other condition is what is > going on with them.> > BTW, my son Louie (26, HFA/AS) never *had* his MMR because he got the > diseases before the injection was available. But he's been different > since we brought him home from the hospital. I have another child and 5 > younger brothers and sisters, so I've seen plenty of typical babies. > Louie was born as he is, God made him as he is, and what caused it is > immaterial to me. What is material to me is ensuring that his life is a > pleasant and normal one...which we did 5 years ago when he moved into > assisted living and started working. He has told me, as well, that if > there was a cure, he wouldn't want it. He likes who he is. He has > said, however, that there should be some med that the "other people" > (his phrase for anyone not autistic) could take that would make them > nicer to him and his roomies and other auties.> > He's a good guy. And a normal, typical, autistic person. > > Annie, who loves ya annie@...> -- > Some people strengthen the society just by being the kind of people they > are. -- W. Gardner>

July 13, 2006

I think I understood your post , was just adding my two cents to it. It was that I think many children are damaged by vaccinations, but I don't think it is from the metals, although I must admit I have no idea about this, as I am not a scientist!

I have just read that it was the vaccine itself that caused the damage, what was in it that gave immunity, either live virus, dead virus, or something like that. They say the newer vaccines are much safer for a variety of reasons. I think we have to depend on scientific research, not personal opinion, or propaganda from health nuts, can't think what to call them, don't want to offend anybody, it is those type of folks who hear something, and then jump on a bandwagon insisting this is true. I don't mean you, I hardly know you, but I have met folks who make me a little uneasy how they preach their particular brand of health religion.

I learned something when I went to college I would like to share with you all. I went during my 40s and early 50s and earned two degree, Bachelor of Science, and Master of Science. Well anyway I took a class one time in nutrition, and I learned that it WAS NOT AGAINST THE LAW TO LIE! That all those health food fads and gimmicks we have all read about at one time or another, well it is not against the law to claim great things from foods, vitamins, gold chains, potions, etc.

This is why we hear advertisement on t.v. , etc., that say if we take this pill we will lose 50 lbs in 3 months, it will just melt off of us, and it is not against the law to sell things this way. Yes, it is a lie, and so I think is fraudulent, but not against the law. I didn't know this before I learned it in Nutrition 101!

So the only thing we can go by is scientific research, that study something over and over in different ways, and add up the results of the research to see which way it is leaning. Like, did you know, they have never PROVEN yet that Vitamin C helps the common cold! Yet probably billions in $$ have been made from it since that claim was made, I know I have contributed some myself.

Something to think about anyway.

Carolyn

Re: Excellent Link (and me venting big time - no need to respond to my vent lol)

You must have misunderstood my post. I do now believe vaccines can cause autism but don't believe it is the sole cause. For some kids the vaccine alone could be the cause. For some, they may already have an assortment of metals in their body and the vaccines are just the proverbial "straw that broke the camel's back". For others, the vaccines have nothing to do with it but the other metals the child was exposed to was the cause. What I am saying is one cannot give a blanket statement that vaccines is the sole cause of autism because that is not true. I know numerous autistic kids that have not had a single vaccine. Vaccines however are a major player in the poisoning of our kids though. I feel we lose credibility when we say vaccines are THE cause of autism because it does not take into account those that were never vaccinated.For my autistic son, I feel his autism is due to a combination of metals and undiagnosed celiac disease. He started out with the metals from me when I carried him. Then I put him in a playpen drenched in antimony and arsenic. Then I dutifully had him get all his vaccines. It was too much for his little body to take. I had him tested for heavy metals and mercury barely showed up but his level of antimony was so high, the lab mentioned to the doctor they thought it was an autopsy!>> Hi ,> > Well we do know that vaccinations can damage kids, otherwise why would the have the Childhood Vaccination Compensation Act? This was created for parents to apply to the federal government if their child has been damaged by a vaccination. I tried to get that once for my son Marty, whose symptoms of seizures started after his fourth in a series of DPT vaccinations. This was in 1966, and they have improved the vaccinations since then, they thought it was the P that could cause seizures in some kids, it is for pertussis, or whooping cough.> >

..

July 15, 2006

cubicmonica wrote:

>

> Unfortunately, most of the vaccines that have had the mercury removed

> were replaced with aluminum. Not much of an improvement.

>

> I believe some vaccines are beneficial if you can get it without

> metals but many of them are overkill. In the last 10 years, there

> have been only 5 cased of polio in this country. All of them were the

> vaccine strain, not the wild strain. Where did they get it?

>> From the vaccine!

From the WHO:

http://www.polioeradication.org/disease.asp

" Until the 1950s, polio crippled thousands of children every year in

industrialized countries. Soon after the introduction of effective

vaccines in the late 1950s (IPV) and early 1960s (OPV), polio was

brought under control, and practically eliminated as a public health

problem in industrialized countries. "

" Polio mainly affects children under five years of age. However, immune

and or partially immune adults and children can still be infected with

poliovirus and carry the virus for long enough to take the virus from

one country to another, infecting close contacts and contaminating

sanitation systems. This could facilitate transmission especially in

countries where sanitation systems are sub-standard. "

" There is no cure for polio, it can only be prevented through

immunization. Polio vaccine, given multiple times, almost always

protects a child for life. Full immunization will markedly reduce an

individual's risk of developing paralytic polio. Full immunization will

protect most people, however individuals can still contract the disease

due to the failure of some individuals to respond to the vaccine. "

According to PostPolio Health International, there hasn't been a

confirmed case of either type of polio in the U.S. since 1998.

(http://www.post-polio.org/ipn/ir-usa.html)

However:

http://blogs.chron.com/sciguy/archives/2005/11/great_news_on_p.html

" By the end of 2003, the polio-eradication campaign appeared to have

success at hand, having confined polio to six African and Asian

countries - Nigeria, Niger, Egypt, India, Bangladesh and Afghanistan.

Just 15 years earlier, when the campaign began, polio was circulating in

125 countries. In 1988 there were 350,000 annual cases of polio ; by

2003, just 784. "

" The plan is simple: Vaccinate everyone. But at the end of 2003,

hard-line clerics in a northern Nigerian state halted all vaccinations

based on rumors that the program was a U.S. plot to render Muslims

infertile or infect them with AIDS. "

" Amid the 11-month vaccine boycott, the Nigerian-rooted virus spread to

neighbor countries including Benin, Chad and Cameroon. It also was

exported farther afield, to Botswana, Burkina Faso, Central African

Republic, Ghana, Guinea, Mali, Togo and even Saudi Arabia. "

" Many of these African countries, believing they were polio -free, had

stopped routinely vaccinating babies. "

" Several months later it turns out the World Health Organization has had

some considerable success in Africa:

Public health experts have confirmed that a polio epidemic in ten

countries in west and central Africa - Benin, Burkina Faso, Cameroon,

Central African Republic, Chad, Cote d'Ivoire, Ghana, Guinea, Mali and

Togo - has been successfully stopped. The epidemic has paralysed nearly

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

200 children for life since mid-2003, but no new cases have been

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

reported in these countries since early June. At the same time, polio

eradication efforts are intensifying in Nigeria, where extensive disease

transmission continues, as part of a mass polio campaign across 28

African countries beginning today. "

And that was after only *11 months* of the vaccine boycott there.

> Infants are given Hepatitis B vaccines in the

> hospital before they go home unless the parent specifically requests

> it not to be given. It amazes me that doctors tell parents not to

> take their child out for the first few weeks because of their

> immature immune systems yet inject a virus in them. And what are the

> risks of an infant getting Hepatitis? I have yet to see an infant

> sharing needles or having unprotected sex.

This from Wikipedia on Hep B:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hepatitis#Hepatitis_B

" Identified methods of transmission include blood (blood transfusion,

now rare), tattoos (both amateur and professionally done), horizontally

(sexually or through contact with blood or body fluids), or vertically

(from mother to her unborn child). However, in about half of cases the

source of infection cannot be determined. " ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

From the CDC:

http://www.cdc.gov/ncidod/diseases/hepatitis/index.htm

" One out of 20 people in the United States will get infected with HBV

some time during their lives. "

" Your risk is higher if your parents were born in Southeast Asia,

Africa, the Amazon Basin in South America, the Pacific Islands, or the

Middle East. " ........ " In 2003, an estimated 73,000 people were

infected with HBV. People of all ages get hepatitis B and about 5,000

die per year of sickness caused by HBV. "

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

As someone who lived through the polio epidemic of the 50's (and watched

a girl my sis's age down the street come home in braces), I know there

are worse things than autism and this is one of them. As a sufferer of

Hepatitis C who is on chemo right now....well, what I " m taking is also

what you take when you have Hepatitis B. And I wouldn't wish this on

anyone, much less a child. Both of these vicious virii are endemic in a

lot of the rest of the world. All it would take would be for one

infected person from Africa or Asia getting on a plane while

(unknowingly) carrying the polio virus. It spreads like wildfire. Take

a trip to your local cemetary sometime and look in the children's burial

area. You will see grave upon grave of children who died of polio myelitis.

We don't need that happening again, especially to our babies (the

incubation time for the polio virus in the body is 12 days) and to our

little kids....again.

There are much worse things than autism in the world that, fortunately,

we can prevent. My son got his polio vaccine after he'd already evinced

his autism, never had the MMR, never had the HBV. Yet he's an autistic

person, has always been an autistic person and will never be anything

*but* an autistic person.

I'd lot rather my boy, whom I love to distraction, be autistic than live

out his life in an iron lung or be prey to post-polio syndrome. I've

seen kids and grownups in that situation. Autism is better.

My opinion, but a researched and experiential one.

Annie, who loves ya annie@...

--

Some people strengthen the society just by being the kind of people they

are. -- W. Gardner

July 15, 2006