Re: Getting started with antivirals

[Guest guest]

Hi Stan,

Sorry for jumping in. I appreciate you sharing your thoughts as I

am trying to collect info to make a descision about how to start. I

thought I heard somewhere that JM likes to use Acyclovir in smaller

children and then move to Valtrex. You mention this may give the

virus a chance to mutate. My son is about 30# does that make any

difference in your recommendation?

I am happy to hear you are going to do a basic getting started

letter! Thank you!

> > > >

> > > > Stan,

> > > >

> > > > I'm not suggesting all antivirals at once. But I am

suggesting

> > (as

> > > > Andy Cutler has suggested, and I respect his opinion

enormously)

> > > > that antivirals work by different mechanisms, and that fact

can

> > be

> > > > used to our benefit. Also, most of our kids would seem to

have

> > more

> > > > than one virus at work in them, perhaps even viruses we

haven't

> > > > identified as problematic (our bodies are absolutely filled

with

> > > > viruses--the vast majority cause no problems whatsoever).

While

> > > > researching this, I spoke to a number of parents who had

tried

> > > > either Valtrex or the other one I can never remember how to

> > spell,

> > > > but with little result.

> > > >

> > > > All these things lead me to believe that for a good number

of our

> > > > kids, a multiple approach is best. And not one after

another, or

> > in

> > > > rotation--which could lead to resistance--but all at once.

> > Starting

> > > > one at a time, of course, just adding them in. I chose the

ones

> > I

> > > > chose based on what they are supposed to do. VS to attack

all

> > > > viruses through digesting them. Lauricidin because it can

work

> > on

> > > > measles, which I believe to be a problem. And OLE, because

it

> > uses

> > > > a different mechanism again, and had been used successfully

by

> > > > people like Dana for a very long time. Sambucol because it

seems

> > to

> > > > do well with flu viruses, which change all the time.

> > > >

> > > > Anita

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Stan,

Sorry for jumping in. I appreciate you sharing your thoughts as I

am trying to collect info to make a descision about how to start. I

thought I heard somewhere that JM likes to use Acyclovir in smaller

children and then move to Valtrex. You mention this may give the

virus a chance to mutate. My son is about 30# does that make any

difference in your recommendation?

I am happy to hear you are going to do a basic getting started

letter! Thank you!

> > > >

> > > > Stan,

> > > >

> > > > I'm not suggesting all antivirals at once. But I am

suggesting

> > (as

> > > > Andy Cutler has suggested, and I respect his opinion

enormously)

> > > > that antivirals work by different mechanisms, and that fact

can

> > be

> > > > used to our benefit. Also, most of our kids would seem to

have

> > more

> > > > than one virus at work in them, perhaps even viruses we

haven't

> > > > identified as problematic (our bodies are absolutely filled

with

> > > > viruses--the vast majority cause no problems whatsoever).

While

> > > > researching this, I spoke to a number of parents who had

tried

> > > > either Valtrex or the other one I can never remember how to

> > spell,

> > > > but with little result.

> > > >

> > > > All these things lead me to believe that for a good number

of our

> > > > kids, a multiple approach is best. And not one after

another, or

> > in

> > > > rotation--which could lead to resistance--but all at once.

> > Starting

> > > > one at a time, of course, just adding them in. I chose the

ones

> > I

> > > > chose based on what they are supposed to do. VS to attack

all

> > > > viruses through digesting them. Lauricidin because it can

work

> > on

> > > > measles, which I believe to be a problem. And OLE, because

it

> > uses

> > > > a different mechanism again, and had been used successfully

by

> > > > people like Dana for a very long time. Sambucol because it

seems

> > to

> > > > do well with flu viruses, which change all the time.

> > > >

> > > > Anita

> >

>

[Guest guest]

I can't speak for her, but I can tell you that I believe she used to talk about

Famvir for the

real little ones and Valtrex (Valacyclovir) for the older ones... but I'm not

her. But, I do

remember clearly a presentation she made in LA in 2004 where she said the above.

That said, a lot has changed from back then and she was at the meeting where Dr.

Jane

ElDahr said that Valtrex crosses the blood brain barrier and Acyclovir does not

and she did

say at the last DAN! conference she would consider giving Valtrex in folks

without viral

markers ... (this was a big deal... since, we argued about this for almost 2

years).

Anyway,

If you really want to know what she things you could join the autism_ldn group

and ask,

but my son was 32 lbs and started with 250mg of Valtrex three times a day... so

you

probably know thoughts about it.

- Stan

> > > > >

> > > > > Stan,

> > > > >

> > > > > I'm not suggesting all antivirals at once. But I am

> suggesting

> > > (as

> > > > > Andy Cutler has suggested, and I respect his opinion

> enormously)

> > > > > that antivirals work by different mechanisms, and that fact

> can

> > > be

> > > > > used to our benefit. Also, most of our kids would seem to

> have

> > > more

> > > > > than one virus at work in them, perhaps even viruses we

> haven't

> > > > > identified as problematic (our bodies are absolutely filled

> with

> > > > > viruses--the vast majority cause no problems whatsoever).

> While

> > > > > researching this, I spoke to a number of parents who had

> tried

> > > > > either Valtrex or the other one I can never remember how to

> > > spell,

> > > > > but with little result.

> > > > >

> > > > > All these things lead me to believe that for a good number

> of our

> > > > > kids, a multiple approach is best. And not one after

> another, or

> > > in

> > > > > rotation--which could lead to resistance--but all at once.

> > > Starting

> > > > > one at a time, of course, just adding them in. I chose the

> ones

> > > I

> > > > > chose based on what they are supposed to do. VS to attack

> all

> > > > > viruses through digesting them. Lauricidin because it can

> work

> > > on

> > > > > measles, which I believe to be a problem. And OLE, because

> it

> > > uses

> > > > > a different mechanism again, and had been used successfully

> by

> > > > > people like Dana for a very long time. Sambucol because it

> seems

> > > to

> > > > > do well with flu viruses, which change all the time.

> > > > >

> > > > > Anita

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

I can't speak for her, but I can tell you that I believe she used to talk about

Famvir for the

real little ones and Valtrex (Valacyclovir) for the older ones... but I'm not

her. But, I do

remember clearly a presentation she made in LA in 2004 where she said the above.

That said, a lot has changed from back then and she was at the meeting where Dr.

Jane

ElDahr said that Valtrex crosses the blood brain barrier and Acyclovir does not

and she did

say at the last DAN! conference she would consider giving Valtrex in folks

without viral

markers ... (this was a big deal... since, we argued about this for almost 2

years).

Anyway,

If you really want to know what she things you could join the autism_ldn group

and ask,

but my son was 32 lbs and started with 250mg of Valtrex three times a day... so

you

probably know thoughts about it.

- Stan

> > > > >

> > > > > Stan,

> > > > >

> > > > > I'm not suggesting all antivirals at once. But I am

> suggesting

> > > (as

> > > > > Andy Cutler has suggested, and I respect his opinion

> enormously)

> > > > > that antivirals work by different mechanisms, and that fact

> can

> > > be

> > > > > used to our benefit. Also, most of our kids would seem to

> have

> > > more

> > > > > than one virus at work in them, perhaps even viruses we

> haven't

> > > > > identified as problematic (our bodies are absolutely filled

> with

> > > > > viruses--the vast majority cause no problems whatsoever).

> While

> > > > > researching this, I spoke to a number of parents who had

> tried

> > > > > either Valtrex or the other one I can never remember how to

> > > spell,

> > > > > but with little result.

> > > > >

> > > > > All these things lead me to believe that for a good number

> of our

> > > > > kids, a multiple approach is best. And not one after

> another, or

> > > in

> > > > > rotation--which could lead to resistance--but all at once.

> > > Starting

> > > > > one at a time, of course, just adding them in. I chose the

> ones

> > > I

> > > > > chose based on what they are supposed to do. VS to attack

> all

> > > > > viruses through digesting them. Lauricidin because it can

> work

> > > on

> > > > > measles, which I believe to be a problem. And OLE, because

> it

> > > uses

> > > > > a different mechanism again, and had been used successfully

> by

> > > > > people like Dana for a very long time. Sambucol because it

> seems

> > > to

> > > > > do well with flu viruses, which change all the time.

> > > > >

> > > > > Anita

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Oops,

this: you probably know thoughts about it.

was meant to read: you probably know my thoughts about it.

- Stan

> > > > >

> > > > > Stan,

> > > > >

> > > > > I'm not suggesting all antivirals at once. But I am

> suggesting

> > > (as

> > > > > Andy Cutler has suggested, and I respect his opinion

> enormously)

> > > > > that antivirals work by different mechanisms, and that fact

> can

> > > be

> > > > > used to our benefit. Also, most of our kids would seem to

> have

> > > more

> > > > > than one virus at work in them, perhaps even viruses we

> haven't

> > > > > identified as problematic (our bodies are absolutely filled

> with

> > > > > viruses--the vast majority cause no problems whatsoever).

> While

> > > > > researching this, I spoke to a number of parents who had

> tried

> > > > > either Valtrex or the other one I can never remember how to

> > > spell,

> > > > > but with little result.

> > > > >

> > > > > All these things lead me to believe that for a good number

> of our

> > > > > kids, a multiple approach is best. And not one after

> another, or

> > > in

> > > > > rotation--which could lead to resistance--but all at once.

> > > Starting

> > > > > one at a time, of course, just adding them in. I chose the

> ones

> > > I

> > > > > chose based on what they are supposed to do. VS to attack

> all

> > > > > viruses through digesting them. Lauricidin because it can

> work

> > > on

> > > > > measles, which I believe to be a problem. And OLE, because

> it

> > > uses

> > > > > a different mechanism again, and had been used successfully

> by

> > > > > people like Dana for a very long time. Sambucol because it

> seems

> > > to

> > > > > do well with flu viruses, which change all the time.

> > > > >

> > > > > Anita

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Oops,

this: you probably know thoughts about it.

was meant to read: you probably know my thoughts about it.

- Stan

> > > > >

> > > > > Stan,

> > > > >

> > > > > I'm not suggesting all antivirals at once. But I am

> suggesting

> > > (as

> > > > > Andy Cutler has suggested, and I respect his opinion

> enormously)

> > > > > that antivirals work by different mechanisms, and that fact

> can

> > > be

> > > > > used to our benefit. Also, most of our kids would seem to

> have

> > > more

> > > > > than one virus at work in them, perhaps even viruses we

> haven't

> > > > > identified as problematic (our bodies are absolutely filled

> with

> > > > > viruses--the vast majority cause no problems whatsoever).

> While

> > > > > researching this, I spoke to a number of parents who had

> tried

> > > > > either Valtrex or the other one I can never remember how to

> > > spell,

> > > > > but with little result.

> > > > >

> > > > > All these things lead me to believe that for a good number

> of our

> > > > > kids, a multiple approach is best. And not one after

> another, or

> > > in

> > > > > rotation--which could lead to resistance--but all at once.

> > > Starting

> > > > > one at a time, of course, just adding them in. I chose the

> ones

> > > I

> > > > > chose based on what they are supposed to do. VS to attack

> all

> > > > > viruses through digesting them. Lauricidin because it can

> work

> > > on

> > > > > measles, which I believe to be a problem. And OLE, because

> it

> > > uses

> > > > > a different mechanism again, and had been used successfully

> by

> > > > > people like Dana for a very long time. Sambucol because it

> seems

> > > to

> > > > > do well with flu viruses, which change all the time.

> > > > >

> > > > > Anita

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Thanks Stan,

I did post her as well. I just wanted your take on it.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Stan,

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I'm not suggesting all antivirals at once. But I am

> > suggesting

> > > > (as

> > > > > > Andy Cutler has suggested, and I respect his opinion

> > enormously)

> > > > > > that antivirals work by different mechanisms, and that

fact

> > can

> > > > be

> > > > > > used to our benefit. Also, most of our kids would seem

to

> > have

> > > > more

> > > > > > than one virus at work in them, perhaps even viruses we

> > haven't

> > > > > > identified as problematic (our bodies are absolutely

filled

> > with

> > > > > > viruses--the vast majority cause no problems

whatsoever).

> > While

> > > > > > researching this, I spoke to a number of parents who had

> > tried

> > > > > > either Valtrex or the other one I can never remember how

to

> > > > spell,

> > > > > > but with little result.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > All these things lead me to believe that for a good

number

> > of our

> > > > > > kids, a multiple approach is best. And not one after

> > another, or

> > > > in

> > > > > > rotation--which could lead to resistance--but all at

once.

> > > > Starting

> > > > > > one at a time, of course, just adding them in. I chose

the

> > ones

> > > > I

> > > > > > chose based on what they are supposed to do. VS to

attack

> > all

> > > > > > viruses through digesting them. Lauricidin because it

can

> > work

> > > > on

> > > > > > measles, which I believe to be a problem. And OLE,

because

> > it

> > > > uses

> > > > > > a different mechanism again, and had been used

successfully

> > by

> > > > > > people like Dana for a very long time. Sambucol because

it

> > seems

> > > > to

> > > > > > do well with flu viruses, which change all the time.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Anita

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Thanks Stan,

I did post her as well. I just wanted your take on it.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Stan,

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I'm not suggesting all antivirals at once. But I am

> > suggesting

> > > > (as

> > > > > > Andy Cutler has suggested, and I respect his opinion

> > enormously)

> > > > > > that antivirals work by different mechanisms, and that

fact

> > can

> > > > be

> > > > > > used to our benefit. Also, most of our kids would seem

to

> > have

> > > > more

> > > > > > than one virus at work in them, perhaps even viruses we

> > haven't

> > > > > > identified as problematic (our bodies are absolutely

filled

> > with

> > > > > > viruses--the vast majority cause no problems

whatsoever).

> > While

> > > > > > researching this, I spoke to a number of parents who had

> > tried

> > > > > > either Valtrex or the other one I can never remember how

to

> > > > spell,

> > > > > > but with little result.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > All these things lead me to believe that for a good

number

> > of our

> > > > > > kids, a multiple approach is best. And not one after

> > another, or

> > > > in

> > > > > > rotation--which could lead to resistance--but all at

once.

> > > > Starting

> > > > > > one at a time, of course, just adding them in. I chose

the

> > ones

> > > > I

> > > > > > chose based on what they are supposed to do. VS to

attack

> > all

> > > > > > viruses through digesting them. Lauricidin because it

can

> > work

> > > > on

> > > > > > measles, which I believe to be a problem. And OLE,

because

> > it

> > > > uses

> > > > > > a different mechanism again, and had been used

successfully

> > by

> > > > > > people like Dana for a very long time. Sambucol because

it

> > seems

> > > > to

> > > > > > do well with flu viruses, which change all the time.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Anita

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Stan,

Thanks for the long reply.

I do have some questions.

What do you think of starting low and increasing dose in an anti-

viral protocol? For istance, I read you gave your child 250 mg of

Valtrex 3x day. Did you stick to that dose from day 1 to day 270?

What other supplements, besides Diflucan, do you think should be

given? immune booster sup?

Thanks,

>

> Hi ,

>

> I was a bit afraid that this might happen. Sorry about that. I'm

in the middle of writing a

> document that outlines a couple of paths that one can take to get

started with antivirals.

> Right now we're in the middle of what I would call some " green

light thinking " on the

> underlying mechanisms of antiviral therapy based on some of the

natural products that we

> are beginning to see good things from.

>

> A Brief Overview

>

> We started the group in November of 2005 and it is the third

fastest growing autism group

> started on in 2005. The top two are Kirby's Evidence

of Harm, and Dr.

> McCandless' Autism_LDN group. I was asked by parents to start this

group after the LA

> DAN! Conference when I presented antiviral therapies at the DAN!,

and presented videos at

> the Physician's Training and the Nurses Training. I also presented

our group data on both

> antiviral therapy and Nasal MB12 at the recent DAN! Think Tank in

Washington.

>

> I am not a doctor. I am a parent of a child who recovered on

Valtrex and I am an adult

> with ADHD and IBS that I learned to manage with methylcobalamin

nasal spray. I am also

> the producer www.recoveryvideos.com which includes 26 public videos

showing recoveries

> of children and adults from autism and chronic illness. I own two

private schools that

> include special needs children in the typical classroom and use

simple health oriented

> diets and natural methods to recover children from chronic illness

and to help typical

> children grow up healthy, alert, and productive. Lastly, I am the

Co-Chairman of Hand in

> Hand Child and Family Development Center in Encino, CA, a Regional

Center Provider of

> Speech, OT, PT, and behavioral therapies. Prior to my son being

ill, my background was in

> software and technology.

>

> In all of my positions I DO NOT TAKE ANY MONEY FROM ANYONE

regarding my work in

> autism and chronic health issues. My school collects tuition from

government funded

> families and a low fee for school tuition for paying clients, but

no family with autism is

> charged any more than a typical family (and families with autism

have free access to GF/CF

> and SCD diets at the school and many other services) and no family

outside of my school

> is charged anything for my work. I do not do private consulting

for a fee. I also do not

> receive any revenue from any company or individual for referrals.

I have made a conscious

> decision not to take money from anyone affected by autism or

chronic illness so there is

> not any perceived conflict of interest in my work and the greatest

number of people can

> learn from what we do.

>

> About The Group - Fast Forwarding to Today

>

> Since we know a little about how the natural products work, we are

able to start

> speculating about some of the underpinnings of our kids particular

impairments.... but

> this is really a preliminary discussion, and at this point we

probably know just enough to

> talk out loud with half of what we say being inaccurate.... it's

just brainstorming, but I

> think it's a very important discussion. It's how many of us

learn. It's how discoveries are

> made IMO. These types of open discussions don't always take place

in the medical

> community, IMO, because of the fear of a doctor or researcher

looking silly or stupid. We,

> on the other hand are silly and stupid more often, but in the midst

of that we seem to

> make discoveries before some others.

>

> That said, there are really four major elements to this group and

when you read a post

> you'll likely see one or more of these elements in it:

>

> 1. Brainstorming and Research - Folks who " talk out loud " about

ideas, research, and

> publications.

>

> 2. Antiviral trials and experiences - Parents who try an antiviral

approach and share their

> experience.

>

> 3. Methylcobalamin trials and experiences - Parents who try MB12

Nasal Spray (or shots or

> other alternatives) and talk about their experience.

>

> 4. Other related research, trials, and experiences.

>

> We have sort of lumped the 4 together in one group because they are

what helped recover

> both my son and I (and now many others) from autism and ADHD, so

they have become

> my passions. That said, I also believe they are connected together

and are two of the least

> publicized and effective therapies for autism and chronic illness.

>

> The group seems to work in waves. Sometimes members are sharing

nothing but their

> trial experience like, " I just started _____ and here is what

happened.. " or " My child is

> doing amazing and I've been doing this____ "

>

> In the last few weeks, we've seen more brainstorming than anything,

so for someone

> coming in for the first time looking for a place to start, the

group doesn't appear that

> accessible, but it is. You just need to do what you did, which is

say, " Nice conversation

> folks, but where do I begin? "

>

> The recent brainstorming and research about why some natural

antivirals are working and

> what other natural products may work. Most of us have the public

or private desire not to

> use medicine if we don't have to for one of possibly many

reasons... money, possible side

> effects, possibly just not wanting to invest in the drug companies,

the challenge to get a

> script from a doctor (which has its pros and cons, and I'm

not " anti-doctor " by any

> means... and " anti-unevolved doctor " ), or some people just live in

areas where some

> medicines are just not readily available.

>

> My view about this has changed a bit. I look at naturals and

medicines and choose what is

> the most effective without bias either way (as long as they are

safe). I am actually a bit

> biased towards natural, although you may not notice that since I

often advocate for a

> medicine in antiviral therapy if I feel it is the best option. I

personally don't focus my first

> priority on costs. I care more about what works best regardless of

where it comes from.

>

> Some more recent members may be more biased towards naturals, while

other folks that

> have been here longer have been focusing on Valtrex. Some of the

Valtrex users have

> already have recovered children and no longer consistently post.

(Some of those folks you

> can read about in the FILES section of our group under Valtrex

posts.)

>

> These mixes of people on the list make the discussion more rich and

interesting, and

> ultimately challenges all of us to continue to learn.

>

> Most of us here respect both types of therapies. In time we'll

learn more. The question of

> what to start with and what to introduce next is still mostly

theoretical at this point. One

> of my goals is to coordinate a clinical study comparing Valtrex

along with the natural

> therapies to see what works best, in what order, and with whom.

>

> I may get a little snappy here and there to try to challenge our

thinking, or to question the

> safety of a new idea or therapy, or to just help keep us from going

too far off from the

> focus of the group at times. Looking closely, some newer folks are

also still getting

> comfortable with me after I came back from a four week leave. To

some I may appear new

> to the group, but I really enjoy the discussion and I'm learning

everyday and I'm enjoying

> myself.

>

> I think the recent discussions are really important. The group is

developing new life with

> new individuals that are IMO, parental leaders in new ideas and

creative thinking, and it is

> changing the dynamics of the group in a good way.

>

> That said, let me see if I can summarize where I would begin

without taking up too much

> of your time...

>

> Where To Begin

>

> Just about everything we are talking about regarding antivirals has

the same basic,

> successful formula

>

> Taking care of the gut (diet and an antifungal strategy) +

Antivirals (medicine or naturals)

> = benefits for many children

>

> Mostly what we banter about is different strategies that might work

differently and

> possibly (hopefully) better. In the end, IMO, this will likely

turn out to be like cancer

> treatment (which unfortunately I learned a lot about this month),

where there are different

> flavors of treatment that will work on different children.

Everyone here respects the

> different approaches we are talking about, so we are just

discussing different agents

> (medicine or natural) and how they may be working for our kids.

Ultimately, most of these

> approaches are very safe and relatively proven to be non-invasive.

I strongly believe that

> antiviral therapy is safer than chelation... and chelation, for the

most part, has a pretty

> safe track record, although I had my experience of feeling like I

wanted to die when I did it

> as a test to see how it would feel before I decided not to do it to

my son, but we'll talk

> about that another time.

>

> How to get started

>

> A simple strategy is to first decision about your antifungal

strategy. Personally I believe

> the safest, simplest and most effective agents for this is using

oral Diflucan, or Nizoral

> (and I sometimes mention amphotericin . They are very effective

and they have a proven

> track record of safety to not be relatively non-toxic. Others opt

to try naturals and some

> have success with products like Candex, or Caprilic Acid, Biotin,

Grape Seed Extract (GSE)

> and a growing list of things that I will put in my introduction

letter I will hopefully finish

> this weekend.

>

> Personally, if I was just getting started today, based on my

personal philosophy of going

> what is most effective and not caring what the administration was,

meaning I don't mind

> using a medicine as long as it's one that is science based, safe,

proven, non-toxic, and

> effective, then I would start with either Diflucan or Nizoral (or

my third choice

> Amphotericin . Additionally, there is recent research that shows

that these medicines

> are helping a large set of our kids who have testosterone issues,

and I won't get into the

> details in this post, but normalizing testosterone seems to be a

major factor in lowering

> bacteria levels, raising glutathione levels and this activity may

be a very important element

> of a good portion of our children's recovery. So bascially, IMO,

you are safely covering two

> bases with one therapy.

>

> If you are one of those folks who wants to go all natural, and

don't mind the risk that

> some of the naturals may not work as well for your child, then

exploring the list of

> naturals may make sense to you. I feel we will come up with a list

of naturals to use and

> figure out what works best for what child, but right now it's a bit

of a trial and error

> scenario, but an important one because if we can figure it out it

will save a lot of people

> money and headaches in dealing with doctors... Rx's etc.

>

> But, again... today if I was just getting started I would go with

Diflucan or Nizoral.

>

> Next is the antiviral agent.

>

> After a lot of thinking... today I believe the place to start if

you can afford it or have

> insurance is Valtrex. While we have seen gains with natural

agents, we do not have more

> than handful of possible recoveries from them yet. Yes, we have a

growing list of

> improvements, but comparatively I have 50 pages of children who

have greatly improved

> or recovered from the use of Valtex. My son being one of them. He

continually improved

> on Valtrex and was off the spectrum in a matter of months. He was

on Valtrex for a total

> of 9 months and has been free of any biomedical therapies for more

than year now. And

> this was a metals toxic child with physical and behavioral

impairments, so he not only

> recovered virally but he also detoxed and cleared his gut issues in

a more natural way,

> through antiviral therapy. In the last few months we've confirmed

that there is a metals

> dumping effect with Valtrex for at least some people, my son was

one, we have test results

> of before and after on others.

>

> We also know that Valtrex modulated adenosine. Many of our kids

have high or low

> adenosine levels and prior to Dr. Sid Baker publishing his study

results about acyclovir and

> adenosine, we didn't have another therapy for this. Valtrex

quickly converts into acyclovir,

> but the added values of Valtrex is that it is less toxic, more

bioavailable and it crosses the

> blood brain barrier, which is where our kids often have

inflammation, (according to the

> 's Hopkins study that came out last year and also mentioned

recently in Time

> Magazine).

>

> Both Valtrex and the Naturals often result in what we call a

healing-regression, which is a

> period of time when the child is healing but looks like they are

regressing. It is similar to

> a die off effect, but at the same time we believe there is metals

detox going on as well as

> immune system and metabolic restoration from the methylation

changes and the lessening

> of the viral load. There also seems to be an increase in fungus

during antiviral therapy

> and initially there is probably a kill off of this new fungus. The

process is often greatly

> lessened by having the antifungal in place prior to starting the

antiviral. This healing-

> regression typically lasts 20 to 40 days. Some folks also report

never see a regression and

> only see gains...

>

> A SMALLER MINORITY of folks experience the regression for more than

40 days and folks

> in that situation often go to a lower dosage, take a break and

return later, or possibly the

> best option move to another agent like Famvir or Acyclovir which

seem to work more

> slowly and then try Valtrex again after a period of time. We've

seen some nice posts from

> parents who worked through really difficult cases with this

strategy and I applaud them.

>

> What you don't want to IMO, is try an agent like Famvir or

Acyclovir first, because you may

> trigger the virus to mutate or build a bit of resistance (this is

just my observation). Lastly,

> some of these folks who have had a healing regression longer than

40 days might move

> off of Valtrex at that point, switch to an Natural like OLE or

Virastop for while and then

> move back to Valtrex (or try both) if their child doesn't have a

full recovery with the

> Natural (which I have not seen a report of a recovery from a

natural yet... although we've

> seen nice improvements).

>

> After the healing-regression and the typical gains we see

thereafter, if you see consistent

> gains that look like you are recovery bound, like in the case of my

son, I would not change

> anything. If you see gains and then a plateau, I would consider

ADDING a natural like OLE.

> Then if you continue to see gains I would not change anything or I

might try adding

> Virastop and seeing what happens.

>

> One you have this part of your viral strategy under control, the

next step would be to

> consider therapies that flush out Measles virus, which include a

two day High Dose Vitamin

> A trial, and then Lauricidin.

>

> The group (and hopefully your good DAN! doc) will help you with the

nuances of each

> strategy, but I think this is a good framework to start with. I'm

not a doctor. I'm not a

> PhD., but I do have the unique perspective of having the position

of reading the thousands

> of posts and hundreds of trials from this group, and also of having

a recovered child.

>

> Thank you for your question. It helped me clear up some of my

thinking and I'll use some

> of this post in my framework for a " How to get started " document.

>

> Welcome, good luck, and keep us posted on your progress and

questions.

>

> All the best,

>

> - Stan

[Guest guest]

Hi Stan,

Thanks for the long reply.

I do have some questions.

What do you think of starting low and increasing dose in an anti-

viral protocol? For istance, I read you gave your child 250 mg of

Valtrex 3x day. Did you stick to that dose from day 1 to day 270?

What other supplements, besides Diflucan, do you think should be

given? immune booster sup?

Thanks,

>

> Hi ,

>

> I was a bit afraid that this might happen. Sorry about that. I'm

in the middle of writing a

> document that outlines a couple of paths that one can take to get

started with antivirals.

> Right now we're in the middle of what I would call some " green

light thinking " on the

> underlying mechanisms of antiviral therapy based on some of the

natural products that we

> are beginning to see good things from.

>

> A Brief Overview

>

> We started the group in November of 2005 and it is the third

fastest growing autism group

> started on in 2005. The top two are Kirby's Evidence

of Harm, and Dr.

> McCandless' Autism_LDN group. I was asked by parents to start this

group after the LA

> DAN! Conference when I presented antiviral therapies at the DAN!,

and presented videos at

> the Physician's Training and the Nurses Training. I also presented

our group data on both

> antiviral therapy and Nasal MB12 at the recent DAN! Think Tank in

Washington.

>

> I am not a doctor. I am a parent of a child who recovered on

Valtrex and I am an adult

> with ADHD and IBS that I learned to manage with methylcobalamin

nasal spray. I am also

> the producer www.recoveryvideos.com which includes 26 public videos

showing recoveries

> of children and adults from autism and chronic illness. I own two

private schools that

> include special needs children in the typical classroom and use

simple health oriented

> diets and natural methods to recover children from chronic illness

and to help typical

> children grow up healthy, alert, and productive. Lastly, I am the

Co-Chairman of Hand in

> Hand Child and Family Development Center in Encino, CA, a Regional

Center Provider of

> Speech, OT, PT, and behavioral therapies. Prior to my son being

ill, my background was in

> software and technology.

>

> In all of my positions I DO NOT TAKE ANY MONEY FROM ANYONE

regarding my work in

> autism and chronic health issues. My school collects tuition from

government funded

> families and a low fee for school tuition for paying clients, but

no family with autism is

> charged any more than a typical family (and families with autism

have free access to GF/CF

> and SCD diets at the school and many other services) and no family

outside of my school

> is charged anything for my work. I do not do private consulting

for a fee. I also do not

> receive any revenue from any company or individual for referrals.

I have made a conscious

> decision not to take money from anyone affected by autism or

chronic illness so there is

> not any perceived conflict of interest in my work and the greatest

number of people can

> learn from what we do.

>

> About The Group - Fast Forwarding to Today

>

> Since we know a little about how the natural products work, we are

able to start

> speculating about some of the underpinnings of our kids particular

impairments.... but

> this is really a preliminary discussion, and at this point we

probably know just enough to

> talk out loud with half of what we say being inaccurate.... it's

just brainstorming, but I

> think it's a very important discussion. It's how many of us

learn. It's how discoveries are

> made IMO. These types of open discussions don't always take place

in the medical

> community, IMO, because of the fear of a doctor or researcher

looking silly or stupid. We,

> on the other hand are silly and stupid more often, but in the midst

of that we seem to

> make discoveries before some others.

>

> That said, there are really four major elements to this group and

when you read a post

> you'll likely see one or more of these elements in it:

>

> 1. Brainstorming and Research - Folks who " talk out loud " about

ideas, research, and

> publications.

>

> 2. Antiviral trials and experiences - Parents who try an antiviral

approach and share their

> experience.

>

> 3. Methylcobalamin trials and experiences - Parents who try MB12

Nasal Spray (or shots or

> other alternatives) and talk about their experience.

>

> 4. Other related research, trials, and experiences.

>

> We have sort of lumped the 4 together in one group because they are

what helped recover

> both my son and I (and now many others) from autism and ADHD, so

they have become

> my passions. That said, I also believe they are connected together

and are two of the least

> publicized and effective therapies for autism and chronic illness.

>

> The group seems to work in waves. Sometimes members are sharing

nothing but their

> trial experience like, " I just started _____ and here is what

happened.. " or " My child is

> doing amazing and I've been doing this____ "

>

> In the last few weeks, we've seen more brainstorming than anything,

so for someone

> coming in for the first time looking for a place to start, the

group doesn't appear that

> accessible, but it is. You just need to do what you did, which is

say, " Nice conversation

> folks, but where do I begin? "

>

> The recent brainstorming and research about why some natural

antivirals are working and

> what other natural products may work. Most of us have the public

or private desire not to

> use medicine if we don't have to for one of possibly many

reasons... money, possible side

> effects, possibly just not wanting to invest in the drug companies,

the challenge to get a

> script from a doctor (which has its pros and cons, and I'm

not " anti-doctor " by any

> means... and " anti-unevolved doctor " ), or some people just live in

areas where some

> medicines are just not readily available.

>

> My view about this has changed a bit. I look at naturals and

medicines and choose what is

> the most effective without bias either way (as long as they are

safe). I am actually a bit

> biased towards natural, although you may not notice that since I

often advocate for a

> medicine in antiviral therapy if I feel it is the best option. I

personally don't focus my first

> priority on costs. I care more about what works best regardless of

where it comes from.

>

> Some more recent members may be more biased towards naturals, while

other folks that

> have been here longer have been focusing on Valtrex. Some of the

Valtrex users have

> already have recovered children and no longer consistently post.

(Some of those folks you

> can read about in the FILES section of our group under Valtrex

posts.)

>

> These mixes of people on the list make the discussion more rich and

interesting, and

> ultimately challenges all of us to continue to learn.

>

> Most of us here respect both types of therapies. In time we'll

learn more. The question of

> what to start with and what to introduce next is still mostly

theoretical at this point. One

> of my goals is to coordinate a clinical study comparing Valtrex

along with the natural

> therapies to see what works best, in what order, and with whom.

>

> I may get a little snappy here and there to try to challenge our

thinking, or to question the

> safety of a new idea or therapy, or to just help keep us from going

too far off from the

> focus of the group at times. Looking closely, some newer folks are

also still getting

> comfortable with me after I came back from a four week leave. To

some I may appear new

> to the group, but I really enjoy the discussion and I'm learning

everyday and I'm enjoying

> myself.

>

> I think the recent discussions are really important. The group is

developing new life with

> new individuals that are IMO, parental leaders in new ideas and

creative thinking, and it is

> changing the dynamics of the group in a good way.

>

> That said, let me see if I can summarize where I would begin

without taking up too much

> of your time...

>

> Where To Begin

>

> Just about everything we are talking about regarding antivirals has

the same basic,

> successful formula

>

> Taking care of the gut (diet and an antifungal strategy) +

Antivirals (medicine or naturals)

> = benefits for many children

>

> Mostly what we banter about is different strategies that might work

differently and

> possibly (hopefully) better. In the end, IMO, this will likely

turn out to be like cancer

> treatment (which unfortunately I learned a lot about this month),

where there are different

> flavors of treatment that will work on different children.

Everyone here respects the

> different approaches we are talking about, so we are just

discussing different agents

> (medicine or natural) and how they may be working for our kids.

Ultimately, most of these

> approaches are very safe and relatively proven to be non-invasive.

I strongly believe that

> antiviral therapy is safer than chelation... and chelation, for the

most part, has a pretty

> safe track record, although I had my experience of feeling like I

wanted to die when I did it

> as a test to see how it would feel before I decided not to do it to

my son, but we'll talk

> about that another time.

>

> How to get started

>

> A simple strategy is to first decision about your antifungal

strategy. Personally I believe

> the safest, simplest and most effective agents for this is using

oral Diflucan, or Nizoral

> (and I sometimes mention amphotericin . They are very effective

and they have a proven

> track record of safety to not be relatively non-toxic. Others opt

to try naturals and some

> have success with products like Candex, or Caprilic Acid, Biotin,

Grape Seed Extract (GSE)

> and a growing list of things that I will put in my introduction

letter I will hopefully finish

> this weekend.

>

> Personally, if I was just getting started today, based on my

personal philosophy of going

> what is most effective and not caring what the administration was,

meaning I don't mind

> using a medicine as long as it's one that is science based, safe,

proven, non-toxic, and

> effective, then I would start with either Diflucan or Nizoral (or

my third choice

> Amphotericin . Additionally, there is recent research that shows

that these medicines

> are helping a large set of our kids who have testosterone issues,

and I won't get into the

> details in this post, but normalizing testosterone seems to be a

major factor in lowering

> bacteria levels, raising glutathione levels and this activity may

be a very important element

> of a good portion of our children's recovery. So bascially, IMO,

you are safely covering two

> bases with one therapy.

>

> If you are one of those folks who wants to go all natural, and

don't mind the risk that

> some of the naturals may not work as well for your child, then

exploring the list of

> naturals may make sense to you. I feel we will come up with a list

of naturals to use and

> figure out what works best for what child, but right now it's a bit

of a trial and error

> scenario, but an important one because if we can figure it out it

will save a lot of people

> money and headaches in dealing with doctors... Rx's etc.

>

> But, again... today if I was just getting started I would go with

Diflucan or Nizoral.

>

> Next is the antiviral agent.

>

> After a lot of thinking... today I believe the place to start if

you can afford it or have

> insurance is Valtrex. While we have seen gains with natural

agents, we do not have more

> than handful of possible recoveries from them yet. Yes, we have a

growing list of

> improvements, but comparatively I have 50 pages of children who

have greatly improved

> or recovered from the use of Valtex. My son being one of them. He

continually improved

> on Valtrex and was off the spectrum in a matter of months. He was

on Valtrex for a total

> of 9 months and has been free of any biomedical therapies for more

than year now. And

> this was a metals toxic child with physical and behavioral

impairments, so he not only

> recovered virally but he also detoxed and cleared his gut issues in

a more natural way,

> through antiviral therapy. In the last few months we've confirmed

that there is a metals

> dumping effect with Valtrex for at least some people, my son was

one, we have test results

> of before and after on others.

>

> We also know that Valtrex modulated adenosine. Many of our kids

have high or low

> adenosine levels and prior to Dr. Sid Baker publishing his study

results about acyclovir and

> adenosine, we didn't have another therapy for this. Valtrex

quickly converts into acyclovir,

> but the added values of Valtrex is that it is less toxic, more

bioavailable and it crosses the

> blood brain barrier, which is where our kids often have

inflammation, (according to the

> 's Hopkins study that came out last year and also mentioned

recently in Time

> Magazine).

>

> Both Valtrex and the Naturals often result in what we call a

healing-regression, which is a

> period of time when the child is healing but looks like they are

regressing. It is similar to

> a die off effect, but at the same time we believe there is metals

detox going on as well as

> immune system and metabolic restoration from the methylation

changes and the lessening

> of the viral load. There also seems to be an increase in fungus

during antiviral therapy

> and initially there is probably a kill off of this new fungus. The

process is often greatly

> lessened by having the antifungal in place prior to starting the

antiviral. This healing-

> regression typically lasts 20 to 40 days. Some folks also report

never see a regression and

> only see gains...

>

> A SMALLER MINORITY of folks experience the regression for more than

40 days and folks

> in that situation often go to a lower dosage, take a break and

return later, or possibly the

> best option move to another agent like Famvir or Acyclovir which

seem to work more

> slowly and then try Valtrex again after a period of time. We've

seen some nice posts from

> parents who worked through really difficult cases with this

strategy and I applaud them.

>

> What you don't want to IMO, is try an agent like Famvir or

Acyclovir first, because you may

> trigger the virus to mutate or build a bit of resistance (this is

just my observation). Lastly,

> some of these folks who have had a healing regression longer than

40 days might move

> off of Valtrex at that point, switch to an Natural like OLE or

Virastop for while and then

> move back to Valtrex (or try both) if their child doesn't have a

full recovery with the

> Natural (which I have not seen a report of a recovery from a

natural yet... although we've

> seen nice improvements).

>

> After the healing-regression and the typical gains we see

thereafter, if you see consistent

> gains that look like you are recovery bound, like in the case of my

son, I would not change

> anything. If you see gains and then a plateau, I would consider

ADDING a natural like OLE.

> Then if you continue to see gains I would not change anything or I

might try adding

> Virastop and seeing what happens.

>

> One you have this part of your viral strategy under control, the

next step would be to

> consider therapies that flush out Measles virus, which include a

two day High Dose Vitamin

> A trial, and then Lauricidin.

>

> The group (and hopefully your good DAN! doc) will help you with the

nuances of each

> strategy, but I think this is a good framework to start with. I'm

not a doctor. I'm not a

> PhD., but I do have the unique perspective of having the position

of reading the thousands

> of posts and hundreds of trials from this group, and also of having

a recovered child.

>

> Thank you for your question. It helped me clear up some of my

thinking and I'll use some

> of this post in my framework for a " How to get started " document.

>

> Welcome, good luck, and keep us posted on your progress and

questions.

>

> All the best,

>

> - Stan