Re: HELP ASAP!!! COMPLETE SLEEP DEPRIVATION FOR ALL!

January 19, 2006

Have you seen a specialist yet to discuss this? That's probably your best

bet at this point. If you truly suspect it is OCD, be sure and find someone

who is experienced in this particular disorder. The pediatrician will

probably recommend to wait it out, but as a parent if your gut is telling you

there's more to it, then go with that and seek a professional opinion. Are

there

other issues during the day that don't surround sleep that you're seeing?

Make sure you write everything down so you'll have detailed notes when seeing

the psychiatrist.

Wish I could offer more, but until you have a definitive diagnosis you're

probably running against the wind. If it truly is OCD, yelling, screaming, and

spankings aren't going to do a darn thing unfortunately. I can sympathize

with you, however, we've had many a sleepless nights too dealing with all of

this. It can wear you down for sure.

In a message dated 1/19/2006 6:11:20 PM Central Standard Time,

dndd1881@... writes:

We are 99.9% sure our 7 year old has been developing OCD symptoms

over the last 2 to 3 years. We've done tons of research, and he has

just about EVERY classic symptom in the book.

January 19, 2006

I can hear the desperation in your post. Lack of sleep definately

affects everyone and makes it harder to cope with emotions too!

There is help and it is a matter of going out and seeking it.

There are therapists who work with children and will help develop a

heiarchy to work on anxiety. Medication was a big help with my

daughter....so she could do exposures for her ocd. She didn't have

bedtime issues, but there are others on this list who may have some

advice. One thing she does like is music on when she goes to bed.

The important thing is do not lose hope, or your anger, which I know

is hard. Ocd is not an easy disorder to understand, but there is a

light at the end of the tunnel and even this list will get you

through tough days! I will pray for you!

Sandy

-- In , " iprayed4u " <dndd1881@h...>

wrote:

>

> We are 99.9% sure our 7 year old has been developing OCD symptoms

> over the last 2 to 3 years. We've done tons of research, and he

has

> just about EVERY classic symptom in the book.

>

> Bedtime has become an absolute nightmare for all of us. He is so

> paranoid that we're going to leave him, that someone is going to

get

> in the house, that his bed is going to fall, etc. We are at our

> wits end, and do NOT know how to get this child to go to bed. He

is

> constantly calling out, we have to check and recheck everything,

we

> constantly have to reassure him that we're not going anywhere (to

no

> avail), and bed time takes HOURS. It's torture for all of us. It

> usually ends up in a shouting match, several spankings, and lots

of

> tears for everyone. Only because we have NO idea what else to do.

> It's that bad.

>

> Also, he has a small bladder, so he wakes up every night between 4

> and 5 to go to the bathroom, and it starts all over again. I am a

> teacher, and I have to be up at 5:00 AM, so I am going to school

on

> 2 to 4 hours of sleep a night, which is usually interrupted. And

it

> just seems to be getting worse. I can't find any information or

> suggestions on how to deal with something like this. I don't want

> to start the habit of someone staying in the room until he falls

> asleep, but we just have no ideas.

>

> Please help! It's been months of sleep deprivation for all of us,

> and we really don't know where to turn.

>

January 19, 2006

I know there are many on the list that will jump in and help. We

haven't had a lot of night time disruption with our 10 yr. old. Some

waking and panicking, but after she was on Prozac, which works well for

her, it's all faded into the background. I'm sure you have thought of

letting him sleep with you so you can all get some rest. Just until you

find a psychiatrist/therapist team? When my DD was 3 and had night

terrors for 6 months, she was up every hour on the hour, screaming.

Looking back, I wish I had just let her sleep with me so we could all

sleep until I could get things straightened out. I'm sorry you are

going through such a rough period--lot of us have been right there with

you, even though the OCD issues may be different. (My daughter couldn't

eat and ended up being hospitalized for a month with a feeding tube).

With the right therapy and/or medications, things will get better!

Also, if you are terribly sleep deprived, your child is also. My

daughter's OCD symptoms used to get terrible when she was exhausted.

She still has some anxiety difficulty if she is tired.

Dina

January 19, 2006

Hi, welcome, and (((hugs))) as we've had long bedtime hours too. And

I like my sleep!!

Have you sought out any help for OCD yet? It can be hard in some

areas to find an experienced OCD therapist who works with children.

In all your research, I'm sure you've read about CBT and ERP

regarding therapy and also the medications offered.

If he's showing behaviors all day/night, 24/7, you really should seek

a therapist and a psychiatrist for medication, depending on how bad

it is at times other than bedtime. Bedtime is actually hard for a

lot of OCDers, less distractions from thoughts and OCD, plus any

bedtime rituals/needs that aren't going right, etc.

What I'm going to say isn't " OCD treatment " , but for just " right now "

you might try having someone sleep in his room or letting him sleep

in your room (sleeping bag on the floor nearby?) or if he's

comfortable on the living room couch(? sometimes they can be

comfortable elsewhere but not their own bed) just so the rest of the

family can get a bit of rest/sleep.

My son's OCD began in 6th grade. I would usually be in his room

until he was settled down in bed, and if needed would take a book to

read to myself until he was asleep. Luckily, once settled I could

usually leave, but sometimes I waited until he was asleep. He had

problems getting *into* or *onto* the bed the " right way " ; if it

wasn't " right " then he had to do it again. It sometimes took a

couple hours on the bad nights, minutes on a good night. The bad

nights sometimes seem to come several in a row that turn into weeks!

I wasn't always the most helpful " you can do it! " mom each night

either!

Stress will worsen OCD. So, punishment won't help, telling them

to " stop " won't help, etc. They really can't help it when OCD is in

control. What all is he having you check at bedtime??

Does he ever had a calm time during the day, no OCD stuff distressing

him? Does he know about OCD? During a good time of the day, you

might want to talk with him about bedtime. Go over some of his fears

with him. Like his bed falling. Well...what will happen if his bed

falls? Sort of role play it out, make a story out of it, maybe throw

in some humor with it! Same thing with some of the other things.

I will say my non-OCD son went thru months of anxiety with a fear

that I would " leave " and he became quite my shadow! Drove me crazy!

It was slow and he also knew how illogical it was for him to feel

that way, but he really couldn't help it but eventually things got

better. That was his only problem, so I put it down to some type of

extreme separation anxiety since nothing else showed up, like with my

other son's OCD. I woke one night and he had stayed up all night

sitting on my bed, watching TV, he was scared I'd leave. He was in

tears, it was so sad, he hated being that way.

Well, I've rambled a bit, sorry. Hope to hear more from you!

single mom, 3 sons

, 17 tomorrow!, with OCD, dysgraphia and Aspergers

>

> We are 99.9% sure our 7 year old has been developing OCD symptoms

> over the last 2 to 3 years. We've done tons of research, and he has

> just about EVERY classic symptom in the book.

>

> Bedtime has become an absolute nightmare for all of us. He is so

> paranoid that we're going to leave him, that someone is going to

get

>

January 19, 2006

Hi there, I'm so sorry to hear of all this upset you are going through right

now. My own dd had an abrupt onset of OCD at age four, but because it was

so abrupt there was no denying something was far wrong and she was quickly

diagnosed and started on SSRI treatment. Yes, that young... It was a

lifesaver and later when we could add the appropriate therapy, her symptoms

fell low and stable. She's 12 now.

My suggestions--first, calm down. No more drama, yelling, tears, spankings

because these worsen the situation and dramatically escalate stress and

anxiety for an already highly anxious and distressed kid. Maybe Mom and Dad

can take turns dealing with bedtime for now, and spell one another? That

way each would get one good night of sleep out of two. Many, many kids with

OCD have a lot of problems at bedtime, when they are tired, deprived of the

things that can distract them from the scary thoughts, or feel compelled to

things to reduce their anxiety (rituals, compulsions). As you've found, a

kid with pathological anxiety/OCD--if that is indeed what he has--will do

whatever he has to do to reduce his fear, even at the expense of Mom and Dad

angry, punishments, and other negatives.

For now, do what you need to do get everyone sleeping again. If that's

sleeping in the same bed, sitting with your son until he falls asleep,

falling asleep with TV, radio, or whatever, do that for now. You may

notice a reduction in anxiety/OCD within the next few days as he and you all

catch up on your sleep debt and the ambiance around the house is less tense.

Tomorrow morning, either call the pediatrician for a referral to a child

psychiatrist experienced in treating OCD, or call your insurance and ask

them to email you the provider list of child psychiatrists. One way or the

other, get an appointment for your boy. Sometimes it takes weeks/months to

get in, but tell the staff that this is a crisis situation and ask to be put

on the cancellation list, which can get you in much more quickly.

Childhood OCD is treated with a certain type of behavior therapy, called

Cognitive Behavior Therapy with Exposure and Response Prevention. It is

also treated with antidepressant medications, the SSRIs (Prozac, Zoloft,

etc.). Commonly the dosages need to be higher for OCD than for depression,

even in kids. Either the pediatrician or the psychiatrist might suggest

medication to help your son sleep. Commonly this is given for a short time

while waiting for the SSRI to kick in, or sometimes by itself. We used

Benedryl, which is OTC--both our ped and the psych said we could give more

than was indicated on the package, but I don't now remember how much more.

In any case it made my child so sleepy that she fell asleep in the middle of

drama, anxiety, fears, etc.! There are prescription meds too the doctor(s)

may suggest.

Does your son have an actual, physically small bladder? I ask because

urinary obsessions and compulsions, and urgency in the absence of infection

etc., is a symptoms of PANDAS, the infection-related OCD.

Because of his age, and especially if he has been sick within the past month

or two, take him to the ped for a strep test. PANDAS OCD dramatically

spikes in severity--often parents can point to the day OCD started. My

child is a PANDAS kid and she has many times, had a documented strep throat

with *no* physical symptoms of illness, only the dramatically and suddenly

worse OCD symptoms.

Write back and let us know how you are doing. There are hundreds of

families here who are going through, or have gone through, what your family

is now. You'll find lots of help and direction here, and many " ears " if you

just want to vent or complain--we all know it's not easy having a child with

this disorder.

Kathy R. in Indiana

----- Original Message -----

From: " iprayed4u " <dndd1881@...>

> We are 99.9% sure our 7 year old has been developing OCD symptoms

> over the last 2 to 3 years. We've done tons of research, and he has

> just about EVERY classic symptom in the book.

>

> Bedtime has become an absolute nightmare for all of us. He is so

> paranoid that we're going to leave him, that someone is going to get

> in the house, that his bed is going to fall, etc. We are at our

> wits end, and do NOT know how to get this child to go to bed. He is

> constantly calling out, we have to check and recheck everything, we

> constantly have to reassure him that we're not going anywhere (to no

> avail), and bed time takes HOURS. It's torture for all of us. It

> usually ends up in a shouting match, several spankings, and lots of

> tears for everyone. Only because we have NO idea what else to do.

> It's that bad.

>

> Also, he has a small bladder, so he wakes up every night between 4

> and 5 to go to the bathroom, and it starts all over again. I am a

> teacher, and I have to be up at 5:00 AM, so I am going to school on

> 2 to 4 hours of sleep a night, which is usually interrupted. And it

> just seems to be getting worse. I can't find any information or

> suggestions on how to deal with something like this. I don't want

> to start the habit of someone staying in the room until he falls

> asleep, but we just have no ideas.

>

> Please help! It's been months of sleep deprivation for all of us,

> and we really don't know where to turn.

January 19, 2006

Wow, Kathy! I'm always inspired by your good advice! You are such an

asset to this board.

Dina

January 19, 2006

In addition to seeking a good professional

psychologist trained in CBT/ERP, you might find it

helpful to take a look at some books. Tamar Chansky

has a very good book. I originally came across it at

my local library, but liked it so much I felt it was

worth buying and purchased it at my local and

Noble. Here's a link:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0812931173/002-3148571-9146410?v=glance & n=28315\

5

>

> ----- Original Message -----

> From: " iprayed4u " <dndd1881@...>

>

> > We are 99.9% sure our 7 year old has been

> developing OCD symptoms

> > over the last 2 to 3 years. We've done tons of

> research, and he has

> > just about EVERY classic symptom in the book.

> >

> > Bedtime has become an absolute nightmare for all

> of us. He is so

> > paranoid that we're going to leave him, that

> someone is going to get

> > in the house, that his bed is going to fall, etc.

> We are at our

> > wits end, and do NOT know how to get this child to

> go to bed. He is

> > constantly calling out, we have to check and

> recheck everything, we

> > constantly have to reassure him that we're not

> going anywhere (to no

> > avail), and bed time takes HOURS. It's torture for

> all of us. It

> > usually ends up in a shouting match, several

> spankings, and lots of

> > tears for everyone. Only because we have NO idea

> what else to do.

> > It's that bad.

> >

> > Also, he has a small bladder, so he wakes up every

> night between 4

> > and 5 to go to the bathroom, and it starts all

> over again. I am a

> > teacher, and I have to be up at 5:00 AM, so I am

> going to school on

> > 2 to 4 hours of sleep a night, which is usually

> interrupted. And it

> > just seems to be getting worse. I can't find any

> information or

> > suggestions on how to deal with something like

> this. I don't want

> > to start the habit of someone staying in the room

> until he falls

> > asleep, but we just have no ideas.

> >

> > Please help! It's been months of sleep deprivation

> for all of us,

> > and we really don't know where to turn.

>

__________________________________________________

January 19, 2006

I was a single parent during my son's years like the ones you

describe - so, when absolutely nothing worked and I just gave up and

let him sleep with me so we could get good sleep, it wasn't a big

deal -

But, like you say, nothing else worked - - - nothing. Even when he

slept with me, he was still fearful, but at least it gave him a

powerful tool to fight the fear back and find a way to go to sleep.

Try to see it, at least for a while, as a serious illness that

requires close physical supervision at night until brought under

control . . . like whooping couph or severe asthma . . .

Try not to see it as a parental/child discipline problem - if it was,

you'd have fixed it by now.

>

> Hi there, I'm so sorry to hear of all this upset you are going

through right

> now. My own dd had an abrupt onset of OCD at age four, but because

it was

> so abrupt there was no denying something was far wrong and she was

quickly

> diagnosed and started on SSRI treatment. Yes, that young... It

was a

> lifesaver and later when we could add the appropriate therapy, her

symptoms

> fell low and stable. She's 12 now.

>

> My suggestions--first, calm down. No more drama, yelling, tears,

spankings

> because these worsen the situation and dramatically escalate stress

and

> anxiety for an already highly anxious and distressed kid. Maybe

Mom and Dad

> can take turns dealing with bedtime for now, and spell one

another? That

> way each would get one good night of sleep out of two. Many, many

kids with

> OCD have a lot of problems at bedtime, when they are tired,

deprived of the

> things that can distract them from the scary thoughts, or feel

compelled to

> things to reduce their anxiety (rituals, compulsions). As you've

found, a

> kid with pathological anxiety/OCD--if that is indeed what he has--

will do

> whatever he has to do to reduce his fear, even at the expense of

Mom and Dad

> angry, punishments, and other negatives.

>

> For now, do what you need to do get everyone sleeping again. If

that's

> sleeping in the same bed, sitting with your son until he falls

asleep,

> falling asleep with TV, radio, or whatever, do that for now. You

may

> notice a reduction in anxiety/OCD within the next few days as he

and you all

> catch up on your sleep debt and the ambiance around the house is

less tense.

>

> Tomorrow morning, either call the pediatrician for a referral to a

child

> psychiatrist experienced in treating OCD, or call your insurance

and ask

> them to email you the provider list of child psychiatrists. One

way or the

> other, get an appointment for your boy. Sometimes it takes

weeks/months to

> get in, but tell the staff that this is a crisis situation and ask

to be put

> on the cancellation list, which can get you in much more quickly.

>

> Childhood OCD is treated with a certain type of behavior therapy,

called

> Cognitive Behavior Therapy with Exposure and Response Prevention.

It is

> also treated with antidepressant medications, the SSRIs (Prozac,

Zoloft,

> etc.). Commonly the dosages need to be higher for OCD than for

depression,

> even in kids. Either the pediatrician or the psychiatrist might

suggest

> medication to help your son sleep. Commonly this is given for a

short time

> while waiting for the SSRI to kick in, or sometimes by itself. We

used

> Benedryl, which is OTC--both our ped and the psych said we could

give more

> than was indicated on the package, but I don't now remember how

much more.

> In any case it made my child so sleepy that she fell asleep in the

middle of

> drama, anxiety, fears, etc.! There are prescription meds too the

doctor(s)

> may suggest.

>

> Does your son have an actual, physically small bladder? I ask

because

> urinary obsessions and compulsions, and urgency in the absence of

infection

> etc., is a symptoms of PANDAS, the infection-related OCD.

>

> Because of his age, and especially if he has been sick within the

past month

> or two, take him to the ped for a strep test. PANDAS OCD

dramatically

> spikes in severity--often parents can point to the day OCD

started. My

> child is a PANDAS kid and she has many times, had a documented

strep throat

> with *no* physical symptoms of illness, only the dramatically and

suddenly

> worse OCD symptoms.

>

> Write back and let us know how you are doing. There are hundreds

of

> families here who are going through, or have gone through, what

your family

> is now. You'll find lots of help and direction here, and

many " ears " if you

> just want to vent or complain--we all know it's not easy having a

child with

> this disorder.

>

> Kathy R. in Indiana

>

> ----- Original Message -----

> From: " iprayed4u " <dndd1881@h...>

>

> > We are 99.9% sure our 7 year old has been developing OCD symptoms

> > over the last 2 to 3 years. We've done tons of research, and he

has

> > just about EVERY classic symptom in the book.

> >

> > Bedtime has become an absolute nightmare for all of us. He is so

> > paranoid that we're going to leave him, that someone is going to

get

> > in the house, that his bed is going to fall, etc. We are at our

> > wits end, and do NOT know how to get this child to go to bed. He

is

> > constantly calling out, we have to check and recheck everything,

we

> > constantly have to reassure him that we're not going anywhere (to

no

> > avail), and bed time takes HOURS. It's torture for all of us. It

> > usually ends up in a shouting match, several spankings, and lots

of

> > tears for everyone. Only because we have NO idea what else to do.

> > It's that bad.

> >

> > Also, he has a small bladder, so he wakes up every night between 4

> > and 5 to go to the bathroom, and it starts all over again. I am a

> > teacher, and I have to be up at 5:00 AM, so I am going to school

on

> > 2 to 4 hours of sleep a night, which is usually interrupted. And

it

> > just seems to be getting worse. I can't find any information or

> > suggestions on how to deal with something like this. I don't want

> > to start the habit of someone staying in the room until he falls

> > asleep, but we just have no ideas.

> >

> > Please help! It's been months of sleep deprivation for all of us,

> > and we really don't know where to turn.

>

January 20, 2006

I gave in years ago! My daughter has to keep checking the locks on the

doors.. So we have a nightly routine. Watch full house together in her bed

then

I lay with her. BAD habit but I really don't mind. 30 minutes she's asleep

and I can sneak out. She's 9 now!

also you could also try meatonin? it should make him sleepy. it right over

the counter.

When Lindsey's OCD/tics became unmanageable she was put on Risperdal(after

bad reaction to Luvox).

it makes them very very sleepy.

Jennie

In a message dated 1/19/2006 11:50:05 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,

kathylr@... writes: