High theta P4 and F4

[Guest guest]

I am working with a child who exibits a very high theta amplitude at P4 and F4

under task, and only under task.

The assessment at both these sites, involved the child listening to

instructions, and performing numerical tasks; digit recall at F4 and mental

arithmetic at P4.

I am currently using a windowed squash at the temporals as they have a scooped

EEG pattern.  I would then like to train P4 which has more of a downhill slope. 

Is it worth training theta down at P4 while under task?  If so, any idea  how I

could create the task conditions while training down theta?

Thanks,

Margaret.

[Guest guest]

Margaret,Training at task is very effective.  Doing it at F4 may be a bit of a problem because of the eye artifact, but certainly P4 would be easy.  Do the same thing you did in the assessment.  Have the client do calculation while blocking theta amplitudes.

Pete-- Van Deusenpvdtlc@...http://www.brain-trainer.comUSA 305 433 3160BR 47 3346 6235

The Learning Curve, Inc.

On Wed, Dec 9, 2009 at 4:25 PM, M APPLETON <margaret.appletonx@...> wrote:

 

I am working with a child who exibits a very high theta amplitude at P4 and F4 under task, and only under task.

The assessment at both these sites, involved the child listening to instructions, and performing numerical tasks; digit recall at F4 and mental arithmetic at P4.

I am currently using a windowed squash at the temporals as they have a scooped EEG pattern.  I would then like to train P4 which has more of a downhill slope. 

Is it worth training theta down at P4 while under task?  If so, any idea  how I could create the task conditions while training down theta?

[Guest guest]

Pete,

I'm trying to think what type of screen would be best to use while I ask him the math questions.

If I set up a simple threshold bar with audio reward, and asked him questions while he tried to control the bar and audio, do you think this would be effective?

Thanks,

Margaret.

I am working with a child who exibits a very high theta amplitude at P4 and F4 under task, and only under task.The assessment at both these sites, involved the child listening to instructions, and performing numerical tasks; digit recall at F4 and mental arithmetic at P4.I am currently using a windowed squash at the temporals as they have a scooped EEG pattern. I would then like to train P4 which has more of a downhill slope. Is it worth training theta down at P4 while under task? If so, any idea how I could create the task conditions while training down theta?

[Guest guest]

Margaret,The audio feedback is sufficient.  Just set up a simple screen (or use one of the existing TLC screens but don't bother with the DVD or video or game feedback) that either clicks or dings when slow activity stays below a certain point or slow activity falls and faster activity rises above a certain point.

You can also reverse the feedback if using a single measure.  For example, instead of setting theta up as an inhibit, set it up as a reward.  Instead of setting your auto threshold target at, say 75 or 80%, set it at 20 or 25%.  Then, as long as he is concentrating on the task, there will be no sound.  When he starts to see theta bursting upward, there will be clicking or dinging feedback to " wake him up " .

You can use written problems as well as spoken ones.One trick that I like to use is to tell the client to perform the calculation aloud, at least initially, speaking each step.  This is especially good in long-division problems like (if this is age appropriate) 3,428,216/2,134 or more complex multiplication problems like 1,423 X 2,486,943.  It's interesting to have the client do such a problem " in his head " once--however he would normally do it-- and track how many points he scores (or loses if the feedback is reversed) and how long it takes and how accurate his answer turns out.  Then do it again, same problem, doing it aloud and track the number of points, elapsed time and accuracy of the result.  Doing it aloud forces the client to use beta and forces him to perform each step (you can hear if he starts skimming over steps and have him go back).

Pete-- Van Deusenpvdtlc@...http://www.brain-trainer.comUSA 305 433 3160BR 47 3346 6235

The Learning Curve, Inc.

On Wed, Dec 9, 2009 at 8:13 PM, M APPLETON <margaret.appletonx@...> wrote:

 

Pete,

 

I'm trying to think what type of screen would be best to use while I ask him the math questions.

 

If I set up a simple threshold bar with audio reward, and asked him questions while he tried to control the bar and audio, do you think this would be effective? 

 

Thanks,

Margaret.

 

I am working with a child who exibits a very high theta amplitude at P4 and F4 under task, and only under task.The assessment at both these sites, involved the child listening to instructions, and performing numerical tasks; digit recall at F4 and mental arithmetic at P4.

I am currently using a windowed squash at the temporals as they have a scooped EEG pattern.  I would then like to train P4 which has more of a downhill slope.  Is it worth training theta down at P4 while under task?  If so, any idea  how I could create the task conditions while training down theta?

[Guest guest]

Thanks, this will help enormously.Margaret.

I am working with a child who exibits a very high theta amplitude at P4 and F4 under task, and only under task.The assessment at both these sites, involved the child listening to instructions, and performing numerical tasks; digit recall at F4 and mental arithmetic at P4.I am currently using a windowed squash at the temporals as they have a scooped EEG pattern. I would then like to train P4 which has more of a downhill slope. Is it worth training theta down at P4 while under task? If so, any idea how I could create the task conditions while training down theta?

[Guest guest]

Margaret

A friend of mine taught me something wonderful for this. You buy one of those

hand held Nintendo Games. Then buy either Brain Age or Brain Age II. Very

inexpensive. These games are great because they have one section that is just

for math problems. Simple addition/subtraction/multiplication. It also has

Sudoku as well. These games are great for central and partial work for EO when

you need some kind of task exercise . Just hook them up to whatever protocol

you are doing and let them play.

Good luck

>

> Thanks, this will help enormously.

> Margaret.

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> I am working with a child who exibits a very high theta amplitude at P4 and F4

under task, and only under task.

>

> The assessment at both these sites, involved the child listening to

instructions, and performing numerical tasks; digit recall at F4 and mental

arithmetic at P4.

>

> I am currently using a windowed squash at the temporals as they have a scooped

EEG pattern.  I would then like to train P4 which has more of a downhill

slope. 

>

> Is it worth training theta down at P4 while under task?  If so, any idea 

how I could create the task conditions while training down theta?

>

[Guest guest]

I am training down high theta, under task, at F4 (quite successfully). While doing this, I am monitoring P4 and I notice that as the theta at F4 reduces, so the high beta at P4 increases. Would you recommend squashing down F4 theta and P4 high beta simultaneously? Do I need to be concerned about this increase in high beta?

At one point, with this same child, I was recommended from a Q analysis to train down theta at T3. Again I noticed that when doing this, theta went down but high beta rocketed. I subsequently used a windowed squash at the temporals.

I guess my question is, is high beta (23-38Hz) always a bad thing? Is it just bad at certain sites? Is the 'normal' activation EEG pattern always desired at all sites unless sleeping or very excited/stresed?

Margaret.

I am working with a child who exibits a very high theta amplitude at P4 and F4 under task, and only under task.The assessment at both these sites, involved the child listening to instructions, and performing numerical tasks; digit recall at F4 and mental arithmetic at P4.I am currently using a windowed squash at the temporals as they have a scooped EEG pattern. I would then like to train P4 which has more of a downhill slope. Is it worth training theta down at P4 while under task? If so, any idea how I could create the task conditions while training down theta?

[Guest guest]

Margaret,I guess my question would be, " how is the client doing? "   I suspect, if you had enough channels to be able to track activity all over the head, an endless number of things might be happening.  If the client is responding positively to the F4 theta downtraining at task, then I wouldn't worry much about what's happening at F4.

Pete-- Van Deusenpvdtlc@...http://www.brain-trainer.comUSA 305 433 3160BR 47 3346 6235

The Learning Curve, Inc.

On Tue, Jan 19, 2010 at 7:04 PM, M APPLETON <margaret.appletonx@...> wrote:

 

I am training down high theta, under task, at F4 (quite successfully).  While doing this, I am monitoring P4 and I notice that as the theta at F4 reduces, so the high beta at P4 increases.  Would you recommend squashing down F4 theta and P4 high beta simultaneously?  Do I need to be concerned about this increase in high beta?

 

At one point, with this same child, I was recommended from a Q analysis to train down theta at T3.  Again I noticed that when doing this, theta went down but high beta rocketed.  I subsequently used a windowed squash at the temporals.

 

I guess my question is, is high beta (23-38Hz) always a bad thing?  Is it just bad at certain sites?  Is the 'normal' activation EEG pattern always desired at all sites unless sleeping or very excited/stresed? 

 

Margaret.

 

 

 

I am working with a child who exibits a very high theta amplitude at P4 and F4 under task, and only under task.The assessment at both these sites, involved the child listening to instructions, and performing numerical tasks; digit recall at F4 and mental arithmetic at P4.

I am currently using a windowed squash at the temporals as they have a scooped EEG pattern.  I would then like to train P4 which has more of a downhill slope.  Is it worth training theta down at P4 while under task?  If so, any idea  how I could create the task conditions while training down theta?