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In a message dated 3/15/05 12:09:49 PM Eastern Standard Time,

vgammill@... writes:

> For the past three centuries scientists and madmen have tried to prove

> that magnets would cure or treat something, anything

They say the same about homeopathy and it works!

When I seriously pulled a muscle in my calf, the orthopedic surgeon told me

to expect a lot of black and blue showing up. I used magnet wraps round the

clock and never did see any discoloration.

I have found the effects of magnets to work for some ailments and not others.

I had no preconception about magnets and have used them with the

understanding that they might or might not work. For the things they work for,

they work quite well. Much like homeopathic results.

My best friend is an energy healer from Soviet Georgia. If not for her, I

would be in a wheel chair. I had responses to her healing that at first were

quite frightening. I had four blocked chakras and when she started moving the

energy around I experienced pressure and excruciating pain, but once the blood

flow got going, the pain decreased noticeably.

I had a healer work on me once..a very powerful healer. I thought she was

touching my feet at one point, the sensation was so intense. I opened my eyes

to take a peek and she had actually left the room.

Do not fall into the box of disbelief of esoteric treatments from magnets to

energy healing to rife to acupuncture to meditation etc. Energy healing is a

powerful form of healing, not to be disrespected.

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Interesting. Beg to differ..

Journal of Pain Management, peer-reviewed journal, had a double-blind

study from about four years ago on ankle/foot pain, and six months

later, over 70% of those who had magnets (and not dummies) still had

pain relief, whereas the placebo group was at 15%. I'd say it works, but

the magnets have to be fairly strong. None of these " bracelet " things.

Dave

Gammill wrote:

> Recent research in England (British Medical Journal, Vol 329, p. 1450)

> proves that the use of magnets for pain relief -- such as for arthritis --

> only works if you believe in it. This confirms research conducted by Mark

> Winemiller of the Mayo Clinic.

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Ray,

There is no reason why the godzilla can't be used to effectively treat the

prostate cancer. After all, there is no difference between it and the GEIPE

device that Jay is promoting. All it will take is to visit the GEIPE

instruction site:

http://www.cancer-treatment.net/Non-Invasive_GEIPE-Instructions.htm

study the instructions, purchase the right electrodes and apply the instructions

to the godzilla, using the new electrodes.

Bear in mind however that the operating battery voltage, for the reasons given

by the pioneer, Jay, must be kept below 9 volts -- 6 volts precisely, while the

current is adjusted through proper skin preparation and electrode size to not

less than 2.5 mA.

Well, it is said that most serious health problems start from wrong food, habits

etc -- resulting in poor digestion and assimilation. So, treating these

maladies with electro-devices without addressing the life-style issue, is like

trying to put off a fire alarm without putting off the fire!!

Please, see the site below for additional info on specific nutrition for cancer

treatments:

http://www.cancertutor.com/AltTreatments/Alt_Diet.html

If you are going to treat Fungi/molds which seem to be at base of most cancers,

consider the product Threelac.

for more info visit: http://www. .org/

Wishing you speedy recovery!

Goddy.

Re: Magnets

Ray,

I don't have prostate cancer. For my arthritic hip I use a device commonly

called a

Magnetic Pulser. this is ssentially a camera flash unit without the light

source. The device

is supplied by <http://www.sotainstruments.com/> out of Canada.

I pulse every night and this makes my life very comfortable. I can walk all

daywithout pain.

Without this device I would be in constant pain. It pulses a strong magnetic

pulse into the

body and will reach about 9 inches into flesh and bone. The pulsing I believe

promotes

and stimulates the blood supply to the tissue inside the hip joint.

I strongly believe the pulses too reach and keep my prostate well supplied

with blood flow

etc. Do some research via Google and better inform yourself about what this

device might

achieve for you.

I constantly wear 6 tiny very powerful rare earth magnets just under my right

my knee and

this also promotes the blood supply and makes my knee very comfortable. I

made/sewed

my own magnetic therapy knee strip with heavy cotton tape and velcro. Small

powerful

magnets do not penetrate very deep into tissue etc, maybe an inch or two. The

magnetic

pulser does penetrate far deeper.

I recently set/sewed (15 x 2 -- 1.5 x5mm dia.-- three rows of 5 magnets on

each

shoulder top about an inch apart) magnets into a shoulder harness supported by

wide

contractor/carpenter type suspenders. Within three days this allowed me to

resume bench

presses on my weight bench -- I don't use a lot of weight and find this type

of weight

training done on a regular work out schedule very important for my health

(keeps your

bones strong and fights off their softening) now that I'm getting on in years.

Again, very

small, very powerful rare earth magnets. Do a Google search and find yourself

a supplier!

This is important: the magnets must be orientated so that the pole that

attracts a compass

needle towards North is the magnet side that is towards the skin or body. The

Pulser is

also orientated in this way. Again, I couldn't live without my magnets or my

pulser. I take it

with me when I travel, in fact, I'm going to get another just to have a

spare!!

This is not to be considered medical advice. I am not a doctor. I'm an

individual who has

taken control and accepts responsibility for my health and well being. I have

spent

hundreds of hours of reseach into methods to improve and maintain my bodily

and mental

health. This is all the information I'm able to volunteer. You might want to

do any further

research.

You might supply more exact information on the unit you are using, including

who

supplies it, cost etc. This will allow others to comment with more knowledge

and input.

I have no financial interest in Sota Instruments.

Hansie Axyl

>

> I have prostate cancer. I was told that I could not use a TENS unit

> because of the cancer.

>

> I purchased a unit from www.earthpulse.net that is supposed to help me

> sleep. They said that it could be used with cancer.

>

> This unit has 2 magnets. There's no pads like the tens instrument.

> They said this unit could also be used to help areas of pain caused by

> arthritis. I also have arthritis. It does help the arthritis pain

> some. It is not the magic bullet as far as sleeping goes but I think

> it does help some.

>

> The unit can be adjusted to different frequencies.They are referred to

> as Delta Rhythim, Theta Rhythm and there are 4 others.

>

> My question is: Can this unit be used safely with cancer?

> I think my prostatis is getting worse but this may not be caused by

> the magnets.

>

> Any help or suggestions would be appreciated.

>

> Ray

The group's main page has a menu to the left, with photos of Godzilla devices

and info. This is a discussion, free speech forum, not medical advice. All

info is free to members. Membership is free, but by joing, you agree to hold

harmless the posters, including moderator, from damages from anything you find

here whether jointly, severally, or individually. We are interested in your

results, but cannot say anything about repeatability, or whether this might have

medical benefits. Thanks, for your understanding, good luck researching. --bG

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Ray,

There is no reason why the godzilla can't be used to effectively treat the

prostate cancer. After all, there is no difference between it and the GEIPE

device that Jay is promoting. All it will take is to visit the GEIPE

instruction site:

http://www.cancer-treatment.net/Non-Invasive_GEIPE-Instructions.htm

study the instructions, purchase the right electrodes and apply the instructions

to the godzilla, using the new electrodes.

Bear in mind however that the operating battery voltage, for the reasons given

by the pioneer, Jay, must be kept below 9 volts -- 6 volts precisely, while the

current is adjusted through proper skin preparation and electrode size to not

less than 2.5 mA.

Well, it is said that most serious health problems start from wrong food, habits

etc -- resulting in poor digestion and assimilation. So, treating these

maladies with electro-devices without addressing the life-style issue, is like

trying to put off a fire alarm without putting off the fire!!

Please, see the site below for additional info on specific nutrition for cancer

treatments:

http://www.cancertutor.com/AltTreatments/Alt_Diet.html

If you are going to treat Fungi/molds which seem to be at base of most cancers,

consider the product Threelac.

for more info visit: http://www. .org/

Wishing you speedy recovery!

Goddy.

Re: Magnets

Ray,

I don't have prostate cancer. For my arthritic hip I use a device commonly

called a

Magnetic Pulser. this is ssentially a camera flash unit without the light

source. The device

is supplied by <http://www.sotainstruments.com/> out of Canada.

I pulse every night and this makes my life very comfortable. I can walk all

daywithout pain.

Without this device I would be in constant pain. It pulses a strong magnetic

pulse into the

body and will reach about 9 inches into flesh and bone. The pulsing I believe

promotes

and stimulates the blood supply to the tissue inside the hip joint.

I strongly believe the pulses too reach and keep my prostate well supplied

with blood flow

etc. Do some research via Google and better inform yourself about what this

device might

achieve for you.

I constantly wear 6 tiny very powerful rare earth magnets just under my right

my knee and

this also promotes the blood supply and makes my knee very comfortable. I

made/sewed

my own magnetic therapy knee strip with heavy cotton tape and velcro. Small

powerful

magnets do not penetrate very deep into tissue etc, maybe an inch or two. The

magnetic

pulser does penetrate far deeper.

I recently set/sewed (15 x 2 -- 1.5 x5mm dia.-- three rows of 5 magnets on

each

shoulder top about an inch apart) magnets into a shoulder harness supported by

wide

contractor/carpenter type suspenders. Within three days this allowed me to

resume bench

presses on my weight bench -- I don't use a lot of weight and find this type

of weight

training done on a regular work out schedule very important for my health

(keeps your

bones strong and fights off their softening) now that I'm getting on in years.

Again, very

small, very powerful rare earth magnets. Do a Google search and find yourself

a supplier!

This is important: the magnets must be orientated so that the pole that

attracts a compass

needle towards North is the magnet side that is towards the skin or body. The

Pulser is

also orientated in this way. Again, I couldn't live without my magnets or my

pulser. I take it

with me when I travel, in fact, I'm going to get another just to have a

spare!!

This is not to be considered medical advice. I am not a doctor. I'm an

individual who has

taken control and accepts responsibility for my health and well being. I have

spent

hundreds of hours of reseach into methods to improve and maintain my bodily

and mental

health. This is all the information I'm able to volunteer. You might want to

do any further

research.

You might supply more exact information on the unit you are using, including

who

supplies it, cost etc. This will allow others to comment with more knowledge

and input.

I have no financial interest in Sota Instruments.

Hansie Axyl

>

> I have prostate cancer. I was told that I could not use a TENS unit

> because of the cancer.

>

> I purchased a unit from www.earthpulse.net that is supposed to help me

> sleep. They said that it could be used with cancer.

>

> This unit has 2 magnets. There's no pads like the tens instrument.

> They said this unit could also be used to help areas of pain caused by

> arthritis. I also have arthritis. It does help the arthritis pain

> some. It is not the magic bullet as far as sleeping goes but I think

> it does help some.

>

> The unit can be adjusted to different frequencies.They are referred to

> as Delta Rhythim, Theta Rhythm and there are 4 others.

>

> My question is: Can this unit be used safely with cancer?

> I think my prostatis is getting worse but this may not be caused by

> the magnets.

>

> Any help or suggestions would be appreciated.

>

> Ray

The group's main page has a menu to the left, with photos of Godzilla devices

and info. This is a discussion, free speech forum, not medical advice. All

info is free to members. Membership is free, but by joing, you agree to hold

harmless the posters, including moderator, from damages from anything you find

here whether jointly, severally, or individually. We are interested in your

results, but cannot say anything about repeatability, or whether this might have

medical benefits. Thanks, for your understanding, good luck researching. --bG

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> To me, it seems rather unlikely that people are sensitive to a PURE

> DC field, such as that produced by a bar magnet

Having tried many absurd-sounding gizmos in the last few years,

one of them was called " Immortality Rings " , which were supposed

to stop your aging process. These were simply some strong

magnets that you wore as a ring around your finger.

I can tell you, that I had a horrible reaction to these magnets

on my fingers, and it only took a couple minutes! I was getting

terrible chest pains and anxiety... the same symptoms that some

other foods, supplements, and EMF protection devices give me.

But of course, my theory is that all of the above are mobilizing

toxins into my bloodstream, and I am reacting to the toxins. But

still, it is an adverse reaction to a magnet, as far as most

people would be concerned.

Marc

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Could be, and I've seen some weird things also, so I'm not

discounting your experience. I DO believe that some of these

magnets in targeted areas can have effects on the body. Many of

these magnetic bracelets/rings are THOUSANDS of gauss (MILLIONS of

miligauss), placed right next to your skin (rings, bracelets). It's

possible they have biological effects.

The point I was making is that you are already in a 300-500milligauss

DC magnetic field, all the time, from the earth. Adding a few

milligauss of DC field on top of that from a pure DC lighting system

seems unlikely to cause symptoms. Even at 10x the strength, it's

still far less than the field of the earth.

Just trying to put things in perspective.

On Mar 23, 2006, at 12:02 PM, Marc wrote:

>> To me, it seems rather unlikely that people are sensitive to a PURE

>> DC field, such as that produced by a bar magnet

>

> Having tried many absurd-sounding gizmos in the last few years,

> one of them was called " Immortality Rings " , which were supposed

> to stop your aging process. These were simply some strong

> magnets that you wore as a ring around your finger.

>

> I can tell you, that I had a horrible reaction to these magnets

> on my fingers, and it only took a couple minutes! I was getting

> terrible chest pains and anxiety... the same symptoms that some

> other foods, supplements, and EMF protection devices give me.

>

> But of course, my theory is that all of the above are mobilizing

> toxins into my bloodstream, and I am reacting to the toxins. But

> still, it is an adverse reaction to a magnet, as far as most

> people would be concerned.

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I'd read about those rings Marc,never got to try one though. I suspect

if it made you that ill so quickly they had the wrong poles facing.

Yes, our bodies should normally be fine with the earth's fields, as

we're made to be okay with it.

Small additional ones, at possibly the wrong strengths, could be

harmful. I know someone who had a similar reaction to Marc's, by

applying one to their shoulder that was suppose to help with healing,

but caused pain.

Japan has more knowledge than we do about magnetic usage. The helpful

and harmful poles.

The positive can cause swelling, congestion and other problems.

The wrong fields cause genetic damage and sometimes ghastly results in

experiments, such as 3 legged carnivorous chickens.

Anyone wanting to feel a magnetic field w/o electric, just take a

couple off your fridge and put like poles together. Separate from

electricity and static is the only way to get a pure magnetic field.

I wonder how much of our troubles are " enhanced " by the earth's

decaying magnetic field? It's not near what it once was.

~ Snoshoe

>

> Could be, and I've seen some weird things also, so I'm not

> discounting your experience. I DO believe that some of these

> magnets in targeted areas can have effects on the body. Many of

> these magnetic bracelets/rings are THOUSANDS of gauss (MILLIONS of

> miligauss), placed right next to your skin (rings, bracelets).

It's

> possible they have biological effects.

>

> The point I was making is that you are already in a 300-

500milligauss

> DC magnetic field, all the time, from the earth. Adding a few

> milligauss of DC field on top of that from a pure DC lighting system

> seems unlikely to cause symptoms. Even at 10x the strength, it's

> still far less than the field of the earth.

>

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> But don't you think that you needed the detoxing?

Yes, I *do* think I need the detoxing, but it cannot be done using a

method that's going to cause more harm than good. If you are

having adverse detox reactions, then most likely you are

redistributing the toxins to another part of the body, and doing

more damage. You are not getting them out of your body.

You have to detox at a rate that your liver, kidneys, etc. can

handle. You also have to detox at a rate that your body can

adequately replace the toxins with whatever mineral was

supposed to be there in the first place. You can't expect

it to happen overnight. I spent a year on medical disability

detoxing, only to realize that there was no end in sight to

this, and I really had to slow down and do it at a rate that

I could also live my life and earn a living.

People have died from attempting to detoxify to rapidly. If one

method of detox seems to be doing you more harm then good, then I

say try another. There seems to be a great number of methods

to choose from.

Marc

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Hi again, Marc,

I guess our differences are in the semantics. I do understand why you could

not use a magnet to detox--it was detoxing too much. However, my point was that

often people say they react to items/supplements with bad reactions and quit

them, when this is really due to ANY detoxing--large or small. If you avoid all

symptoms of detoxing, you never recover fully from CFIDS/FMS. (I know, Marc,

that this does not apply to you personally. You have detoxed to the point of

recovery.)

We do, however, have to choose a level of detoxing that we can live with

(which usually still means you are sick, just not as sick as to be

dysfunctional. But for me personally, I did need to be nearly dysfunctional to

begin this process.) I have noticed that I do not get as ill from even heavy

detoxing when I couple it with added fiber for the toxins to bind to, tho. I

agree that you can redistribute the toxins to other parts of the body if not

careful, but this has nothing to do with most of the discomfort involved. That

has to do with the ability of the elimination systems of the body to handle the

load. Also there is alot to be understood with how toxins bind to saturated

fats, etc with this subject. It is complex. There are other considerations

entirely if the toxin is a heavy metal.

I reacted badly to both molybdenum and pantethine. These are necessary

nutrients for the lymphatic system and sulfination (sp?) pathway, from what I

understand. Each of these nutrients have helped me greatly over the past year,

however, I got horrific reactions from both when I first started them. I quit

taking each of them altogether. Later my nutritionist wanted me to go back on

each of them and I explained the situation. He told me to take miniscule

amounts and build up on them, which I did. They worked great this way. Within

a week I was taking the full capsules/tablets. Within another couple weeks, I

was taking mega doses of pantethine. He told me that I would have also worked

thru tolerance if I had kept taking them at the full dose to begin with. It

would have just taken me a week or so, but I would have been sicker for awhile

and worked thru that. (These did make me totally dysfunctional, tho, so I doubt

myself that I could have gone this route.)

Now, when I get this reaction with new items/supplements, I do not regard it

as necessarily bad. I continue doing whatever is giving me the reaction and see

if it tapers off in a few days. If the reaction is extreme or severe, I lessen

the dose or I put the item further away from me. But I do not quit the product

altogether. Usually I find that the reaction levels off and I tolerate it

better within a week. Am I ill alot while doing this? Yes, I am. However, the

quicker I can detox, the better I am each time I take a break from it. I do

not stop a product if it continues to give me ongoing detox symptoms either. I

take many supplements that give me ongoing detox symptoms, I just adjust the

doses to a level I can live with.

Obviously I am not going to make myself ill to the point of being totally

dysfunctional, but I now realize that to get to where I want to go (total, full

health), I am going to have to endure some pain along the way. I have gone from

bed-bound to just pretty nearly normal. In just the past year alone, I have

gone from unable to exert myself physically without a relapse (rapidly falling

bp and total adrenal dysfunction) to the point of being able to exercise on a

regular basis. I am not going to qualify for a tri-athelon competition anytime

soon, but in my eyes this is great progress.

My original point was that many people never get to actual detoxing because

they think that any discomfort is a bad thing. You cannot detox without

discomfort. Also, detoxing takes a very long time. While we are detoxing, we

are accumulating new toxins in most cases. Some of our toxins are replicating

(as in the example of bad gut flora.) Such is life and even more so in the days

in which we live.

Diane

Marc <marc@...> wrote:

> But don't you think that you needed the detoxing?

Yes, I *do* think I need the detoxing, but it cannot be done using a

method that's going to cause more harm than good. If you are

having adverse detox reactions, then most likely you are

redistributing the toxins to another part of the body, and doing

more damage.

---------------------------------

Messenger with Voice. Make PC-to-Phone Calls to the US (and 30+

countries) for 2ยข/min or less.

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> >So when you wear a magnet next to skin what about blood polarity

heama/metal content will this generate a form of occillating feild ?

will it have effect of altering the electron spin in blood corpusles

etc which must have a major knock on effect. One theory I have is that

my Tinittus may be partly due/exacerbated by, a change in blood

polarity as it passes my audiological nerve which then stimulates the

nerve and cillia in a foreign way hence hf sounds etc ... ?

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This issue re earths decaying mag feilds has got to be part of the

problem this would gradually alter so many of our trusted physical laws

as ES persons we may be the first to know ! Lets face it we are

canaries down the mine or perhaps organic Barometers, I am sure that

the answers to alot of this are to be found in genes, tracing your tree

and perhpas there is a purpose to our torment that lies hidden for

know. There is nothing new under the sun, however !

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Hello,

everything that is magnetic, whether DC or AC, does have an impact on the

body.

The impact on electrosensible people is much greater than on ordinary

people.

So my advice is, stay away from it as far away as possible.

Greetings,

Claessens

member Verband Baubiologie

www.milieuziektes.nl

www.milieuziektes.be

www.hetbitje.nl

checked by Norton Antivirus

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> everything that is magnetic, whether DC or AC, does have an impact on the

> body.

One of the things that has mystified me in the past year

is how the latest iteration of my employer's work ID

badge causes me problems. So much so that I probably

only wear it for a few minutes a day. Since the badge

has no power source (although it does have a proximity

antenna plus some kind of chip with 32k memory), I

wonder if it simply has something magnetic in it

that's bothering me...

Marc

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I am mildly ES, but react strongly to cell phones. I am not (yet)

convinced that this is just one problem, I think you can be sensitive to

microwaves more than ordinary electro fields.

Anyway, I use the North pole of magnets against skin regularly with no

trouble at all. They are very helpful, I use them to relax the liver

(assists with detox), to treat pain (especially dental), to treat insect

bites (my whole family uses them for this, very powerful), and to assist

with sleep (you actually must use the magnets late afternoon to help

with sleep that night). I have also used them to stop seizure activity

(a magnetic headband).

Sometimes I get a mild tinnitus from the magnets, but it does not last,

and the benefits outweigh that mild noise. But if someone uses a cell

phone within about 10m, my brain feels like it is full of glue. Just

bogs down for awhile.

Magnets are not EMF, they are natural magnetics and do not have

'frequency' issues.

--Kurt

SPAM-MED: Re: magnets

> >So when you wear a magnet next to skin what about blood polarity

heama/metal content will this generate a form of occillating feild ?

will it have effect of altering the electron spin in blood corpusles

etc which must have a major knock on effect. One theory I have is that

my Tinittus may be partly due/exacerbated by, a change in blood

polarity as it passes my audiological nerve which then stimulates the

nerve and cillia in a foreign way hence hf sounds etc ... ?

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Hello Kurt, there you are wrong.

Magnets belong to EMF.

We have:

electrical AC fields

magnetic AC fields

electrical DC fields

magnetic DC fields (where the magnets belong)

electromagnetic DC fields

First you feel a lot of high frequency fields, but later you will be also

more sensible to low frequency fields.

Be aware.

Greetings,

Claessens

member Verband Baubiologie

www.milieuziektes.nl

www.milieuziektes.be

www.hetbitje.nl

checked by Norton Antivirus

>

> Sometimes I get a mild tinnitus from the magnets, but it does not last,

> and the benefits outweigh that mild noise. But if someone uses a cell

> phone within about 10m, my brain feels like it is full of glue. Just

> bogs down for awhile.

>

> Magnets are not EMF, they are natural magnetics and do not have

> 'frequency' issues.

>

> --Kurt

>

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And, just as a clarifiicatin, magnetic DC fields created by permanent

magnets and magnetic DC fields created by electrical currents are

exactly the same. As mentioned prior, the 500 milligauss natural

magnetic field of the earth is generated, in fact, by circulating DC

electricity.

On Mar 25, 2006, at 10:39 AM, charles wrote:

> Hello Kurt, there you are wrong.

>

> Magnets belong to EMF.

>

> We have:

> electrical AC fields

> magnetic AC fields

> electrical DC fields

> magnetic DC fields (where the magnets belong)

> electromagnetic DC fields

>

> First you feel a lot of high frequency fields, but later you will

> be also

> more sensible to low frequency fields.

> Be aware.

>

>

> Greetings,

> Claessens

> member Verband Baubiologie

> www.milieuziektes.nl

> www.milieuziektes.be

> www.hetbitje.nl

> checked by Norton Antivirus

>

>

>>

>> Sometimes I get a mild tinnitus from the magnets, but it does not

>> last,

>> and the benefits outweigh that mild noise. But if someone uses a

>> cell

>> phone within about 10m, my brain feels like it is full of glue. Just

>> bogs down for awhile.

>>

>> Magnets are not EMF, they are natural magnetics and do not have

>> 'frequency' issues.

>>

>> --Kurt

>>

>

>

>

>

>

>

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Hi Kurt and ,

Interesting discussion. I know zip about anything technical here (I am an

artist/muscian type), so it is helpful for me to learn from all you guys (and

ladies) here who know what you are talking about. One thing I have wondered

tho.... Marc and I have been having a discussion about detoxing and it has

occurred to me that even my cell phone reactions *COULD BE* a type of serious

detoxing. (I am not saying they are, but that I am wondering if this is

possible). Could this be so and, if so, could all ES be a type of detoxing, or

could this be mixed--magnetic causing detoxing and other frequencies causing

other reactions to toxins we already have in our bodies? This is probably a

very stupid question, I know. But I don't expect any of you to play Beethoven

symphonies, either ;) so be kind. lol I just notice that most of us here

have toxin issues. So, is the ES reacting to the toxins by pulling them out

(detoxing) or by magnifying the affects of the toxins and making them

stronger?

What about this, everybody? Does anyone have an opinion to share?

Kurt, it is also interesting about your electrolyte needs. I, too, seem to

need alot of electrolytes. I really like the fizz tabs by " Electro-Blast " --they

are like alka-seltzers you put into water and are sweetened with only stevia,

which is the only sweetener I use. What electrolytes do you use?

Diane

" Kurt R. " <kurt@...> wrote:

I don't believe that permanent magnets are in the same class as EMF, as

there is no electricity involved. Magnets are natural, we have a magnet

in our brains! In the pineal gland. The body is supposed to have

magnetic fields, it uses them. The body also relies on the earth's

magnetic field. A permanent magnet can be very helpful with many

medical conditions.

But I agree with you that the sensitivity to even permanent magnets

could change, I have experienced this. When I am sick for example, my

sensitivity to the magnets changes a bit, but usually I actually need

them even more during that time.

I think this is complicated, the problems occur when an external field

interferes with our own field. Perhaps tolerance will vary according to

the type of illness a person has. Much of this also may relate to ion

channelopathies. I usually take electrolytes every few hours, and that

helps me a great deal.

---------------------------------

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> Marc and I have been having a discussion about detoxing and

> it has occurred to me that even my cell phone reactions *COULD BE*

> a type of serious detoxing. Could this be so and, if so,

> could all ES be a type of detoxing, or could this be mixed--magnetic

> causing detoxing and other frequencies causing other reactions to

> toxins we already have in our bodies? This is probably a very

> stupid question, I know.

Actually, I think that is a very smart question. I think a lot

of people with ES are indeed having " detox " reactions when

exposed to EMF. That is, the EMF is stirring up toxins into

their bloodstream, then they start having an adverse reaction.

That is why when they try something that is good for detoxification,

they may find themselves with *worse* ES symptoms than before.

In such a case, one really should focus on using things that

help you deal with those mobilized toxins (e.g., taking

antioxidants or electrolytes or fiber), or things that will

reduce the mobilization (e.g, avoidance of EMF fields).

One thing that I tried that *really* helped my ES symptoms

was taking antibiotics. Well, of course, antibiotics are

known to halt any detoxification processes dead in their

tracks. No detox = no ES.

When I talk about EMF protection devices, I note that some

make me worse, and some make me better. I think the critical

factor with these devices are how it affects my detoxification

processes. For example, the Springlife Polarizers seem to

have the same effect as mercury chelator -- that is, they

can make you feel better, but if you take too much you will

start feeling terrible. On the other hand, the Quantum

Products are like taking antibiotics -- they offer instant

relief, but they also bring your detoxification processes

to a halt. I go back and forth using these things, helping

me detox at a rate that I am comfortable with, and that essentially

eliminates my ES problems.

Marc

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No, no, no.

That is utterly nonsense.

Electrical currents have nothing to do with static magnetic fields.

The earth has a magnetic field of about 45.000 nT (nanoTesla).

This has always been, even before the dark Middle Ages, when there even was

no currents, no AC and no DC.

Electricity only exists for the last 200 years.

There are deviations on this magnetic field, by underground water flows,

ruptures in the underground, earth beams, etc.

Those differences can be measured with a magnetometer.

Magnetic fields exist also in many metal parts, like the springs in your

mattress, or the supporting underwired bra.

Or metal supporting beams in houses.

One may check this with a compass.

First check where North is; then go over the place, and when the needle

shows a different direction, you have found a spot.

A Tesla or Gauss meter only measures AC magnetic fields.

AC magnetic fields only occur where current is flowing.

Greetings,

Claessens

member Verband Baubiologie

www.milieuziektes.nl

www.milieuziektes.be

www.hetbitje.nl

checked by Norton Antivirus

Re: Re: magnets

> And, just as a clarifiicatin, magnetic DC fields created by permanent

> magnets and magnetic DC fields created by electrical currents are

> exactly the same. As mentioned prior, the 500 milligauss natural

> magnetic field of the earth is generated, in fact, by circulating DC

> electricity.

>

> On Mar 25, 2006, at 10:39 AM, charles wrote:

>

>> Hello Kurt, there you are wrong.

>>

>> Magnets belong to EMF.

>>

>> We have:

>> electrical AC fields

>> magnetic AC fields

>> electrical DC fields

>> magnetic DC fields (where the magnets belong)

>> electromagnetic DC fields

>>

>> First you feel a lot of high frequency fields, but later you will

>> be also

>> more sensible to low frequency fields.

>> Be aware.

>>

>>

>> Greetings,

>> Claessens

>> member Verband Baubiologie

>> www.milieuziektes.nl

>> www.milieuziektes.be

>> www.hetbitje.nl

>> checked by Norton Antivirus

>>

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> No, no, no.

> That is utterly nonsense.

> Electrical currents have nothing to do with static magnetic fields.

Yes, they do.

I rarely post nonsense, but I have been known to make mistakes. Not

this time, though.

Since some on this list seem unlikely to believe me, here is a quote

from NASA's educational website The exploration of the Earth's

Magnetosphere " and a link which backs up my explanation.

" In space, on the Sun and in the Earth's core, electric currents are

the only source of magnetism. We loosely refer to the region of their

influence as their magnetic field, a term which will be further

discussed later. " - NASA

Here is that website: http://www-spof.gsfc.nasa.gov/Education/

wmfield.html

And another that confirms the earth's magnetism comes from

circulating electrical currents in the core:

http://istp.gsfc.nasa.gov/earthmag/dynamos2.htm

If you don't believe NASA, the canadians basically say the same thing

on their science and technology museum web site... http://

www.sciencetech.technomuses.ca/English/schoolzone/Info_Magnets.cfm

" ... the Earth's magnetic field is produced by electric currents. One

theory accounting for the production of these currents is that deep

in the Earth's core, hot molten magma rises, cools and sinks. Then,

the whole process repeats itself. It is thought that within these

rising and falling masses of magma the rotation of the Earth creates

organized patterns of circular electrical currents, called eddies.

The interior of the planet in fact acts like a giant dynamo. "

> The earth has a magnetic field of about 45.000 nT (nanoTesla).

> This has always been, even before the dark Middle Ages, when there

> even was

> no currents, no AC and no DC.

> Electricity only exists for the last 200 years.

As stated above, and in my prior post, it IS generated by naturally

circulating DC electrical currents.

As you correctly point out, static magnetic fields vary in buildings

due to steel or other ferrous metal objects which " distort " the

earth's field. Properly installed active DC electrical circuits do

also distort the earths magnetic field slightly when activated, but

generally far less than the structure of a steel building, or lying

on a steel frame bed, for instance.

You are correct that a compass can be used to identify these effects,

if they are of concern.

I think we all agree that AC EMF is a totally different ball of wax,

and is produced by AC currents.

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Evie,

I have wondered the same thing, whether some of the EMS sensitivity is a

Rife-type of effect on bugs or toxins. Rife uses harmonic resonance to

over-stimulate and kill bugs, as a musician you should appreciate that!

The same principle as strings on a piano or guitar that will vibrate

sympathetically when you sing a note on any major harmonic with the

string. This could also be stimulating certain toxins.

But if this were the case, then the sensitivity would be only to

specific frequencies. For some people that might be what is happening,

particularly with phone sensitivity. But for others the sensitivity is

to fields and static charge, which does not seem likely to involve

frequency.

Another theory of my own is that the EMF is interfering with the proper

function of the Pineal gland itself. This could happen in some weird

ways as various neurological patterns might be triggered by specific

frequencies. The brain might actually 'learn' to respond to certain

EMFs. Thus the external EMF to turn on or off a number of

semi-autonomic nervous system functions. For example, the fight-flight

response. I just posted a hypothesis about that on my CFS blog

www.kurtsprotocol.blogspot.com <http://www.kurtsprotocol.blogspot.com/>

..

As far as electrolytes, I am using Recup, which is perfectly balanced to

muscle tissue mineral requirements. www.recuperat-ion.com

<http://www.recuperat-ion.com/> . It is from Spain and some people

recover from Fibromyalgia and CFS simply with this electrolyte replacing

drink. There is no other electrolyte drink that is perfectly balanced

like this.

--Kurt

Re: Re: magnets

Hi Kurt and ,

Interesting discussion. I know zip about anything technical here (I

am an artist/muscian type), so it is helpful for me to learn from all

you guys (and ladies) here who know what you are talking about. One

thing I have wondered tho.... Marc and I have been having a discussion

about detoxing and it has occurred to me that even my cell phone

reactions *COULD BE* a type of serious detoxing. (I am not saying they

are, but that I am wondering if this is possible). Could this be so

and, if so, could all ES be a type of detoxing, or could this be

mixed--magnetic causing detoxing and other frequencies causing other

reactions to toxins we already have in our bodies? This is probably a

very stupid question, I know. But I don't expect any of you to play

Beethoven symphonies, either ;) so be kind. lol I just notice that

most of us here have toxin issues. So, is the ES reacting to the toxins

by pulling them out (detoxing) or by magnifying the affects of the

toxins and making them

stronger?

What about this, everybody? Does anyone have an opinion to share?

Kurt, it is also interesting about your electrolyte needs. I, too,

seem to need alot of electrolytes. I really like the fizz tabs by

" Electro-Blast " --they are like alka-seltzers you put into water and are

sweetened with only stevia, which is the only sweetener I use. What

electrolytes do you use?

Diane

" Kurt R. " <kurt@...> wrote:

I don't believe that permanent magnets are in the same class as EMF,

as

there is no electricity involved. Magnets are natural, we have a magnet

in our brains! In the pineal gland. The body is supposed to have

magnetic fields, it uses them. The body also relies on the earth's

magnetic field. A permanent magnet can be very helpful with many

medical conditions.

But I agree with you that the sensitivity to even permanent magnets

could change, I have experienced this. When I am sick for example, my

sensitivity to the magnets changes a bit, but usually I actually need

them even more during that time.

I think this is complicated, the problems occur when an external field

interferes with our own field. Perhaps tolerance will vary according to

the type of illness a person has. Much of this also may relate to ion

channelopathies. I usually take electrolytes every few hours, and that

helps me a great deal.

---------------------------------

New Messenger with Voice. Call regular phones from your PC for

low, low rates.

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I mispoke when I said about a truly " just magnetic field " with the

static magnets. Everything that exists, every molecule, every grain of

sand has an emf frequency that makes it " it " .

Although most likely that field is not a problem. Yes, you are right

that a current could be produced by moving yourself through the field,

or the blood. I almost mentioned that, but didn't.

How that could affect your blood and the type of fields that would be

produced, I don't know. It wasn't something I covered when I was

studying electromagnetism in school.

If you have a Nikken distributor they may have a gadget that comes with

their kit that could help demonstrate that, and the magnetic field

going through the body.

~ Snoshoe

>

> > >So when you wear a magnet next to skin what about blood polarity

> heama/metal content will this generate a form of occillating feild ?

> will it have effect of altering the electron spin in blood corpusles

> etc which must have a major knock on effect. One theory I have is

that

> my Tinittus may be partly due/exacerbated by, a change in blood

> polarity as it passes my audiological nerve which then stimulates the

> nerve and cillia in a foreign way hence hf sounds etc ... ?

>

>

>

>

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Electrosensibles should avoid all products from Nikken.

Greetings,

Claessens

member Verband Baubiologie

www.milieuziektes.nl

www.milieuziektes.be

www.hetbitje.nl

checked by Norton Antivirus

Re: magnets

>I mispoke when I said about a truly " just magnetic field " with the

> static magnets. Everything that exists, every molecule, every grain of

> sand has an emf frequency that makes it " it " .

>

> Although most likely that field is not a problem. Yes, you are right

> that a current could be produced by moving yourself through the field,

> or the blood. I almost mentioned that, but didn't.

> How that could affect your blood and the type of fields that would be

> produced, I don't know. It wasn't something I covered when I was

> studying electromagnetism in school.

>

> If you have a Nikken distributor they may have a gadget that comes with

> their kit that could help demonstrate that, and the magnetic field

> going through the body.

>

> ~ Snoshoe

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I am quite pleased with the effects I get from Nikken. The insoles, the

water, the seat cushion, and the back magnet, which I've used to get

rid of earaches and swollen glands, as it stimulates the lymph system.

~ Snoshoe

>

> Electrosensibles should avoid all products from Nikken.

>

> Greetings,

> Claessens

> member Verband Baubiologie

> www.milieuziektes.nl

> www.milieuziektes.be

> www.hetbitje.nl

> checked by Norton Antivirus

>

>

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Hi, Kurt,

Thanks for the info. And it is very interesting about harmonics killing bugs!

This is a tune I need to learn! lol Thanks also for the electrolyte info.

Diane (aka Evie)

" Kurt R. " <kurt@...> wrote:

Evie,

I have wondered the same thing, whether some of the EMS sensitivity is a

Rife-type of effect on bugs or toxins. Rife uses harmonic resonance to

over-stimulate and kill bugs, as a musician you should appreciate that!

The same principle as strings on a piano or guitar that will vibrate

sympathetically when you sing a note on any major harmonic with the

string. This could also be stimulating certain toxins.

But if this were the case, then the sensitivity would be only to

specific frequencies. For some people that might be what is happening,

particularly with phone sensitivity. But for others the sensitivity is

to fields and static charge, which does not seem likely to involve

frequency.

Another theory of my own is that the EMF is interfering with the proper

function of the Pineal gland itself. This could happen in some weird

ways as various neurological patterns might be triggered by specific

frequencies. The brain might actually 'learn' to respond to certain

EMFs. Thus the external EMF to turn on or off a number of

semi-autonomic nervous system functions. For example, the fight-flight

response. I just posted a hypothesis about that on my CFS blog

www.kurtsprotocol.blogspot.com <http://www.kurtsprotocol.blogspot.com/>

..

As far as electrolytes, I am using Recup, which is perfectly balanced to

muscle tissue mineral requirements. www.recuperat-ion.com

<http://www.recuperat-ion.com/> . It is from Spain and some people

recover from Fibromyalgia and CFS simply with this electrolyte replacing

drink. There is no other electrolyte drink that is perfectly balanced

like this.

--Kurt

Re: Re: magnets

Hi Kurt and ,

Interesting discussion. I know zip about anything technical here (I

am an artist/muscian type), so it is helpful for me to learn from all

you guys (and ladies) here who know what you are talking about. One

thing I have wondered tho.... Marc and I have been having a discussion

about detoxing and it has occurred to me that even my cell phone

reactions *COULD BE* a type of serious detoxing. (I am not saying they

are, but that I am wondering if this is possible). Could this be so

and, if so, could all ES be a type of detoxing, or could this be

mixed--magnetic causing detoxing and other frequencies causing other

reactions to toxins we already have in our bodies? This is probably a

very stupid question, I know. But I don't expect any of you to play

Beethoven symphonies, either ;) so be kind. lol I just notice that

most of us here have toxin issues. So, is the ES reacting to the toxins

by pulling them out (detoxing) or by magnifying the affects of the

toxins and making them

stronger?

What about this, everybody? Does anyone have an opinion to share?

Kurt, it is also interesting about your electrolyte needs. I, too,

seem to need alot of electrolytes. I really like the fizz tabs by

" Electro-Blast " --they are like alka-seltzers you put into water and are

sweetened with only stevia, which is the only sweetener I use. What

electrolytes do you use?

Diane

" Kurt R. " <kurt@...> wrote:

I don't believe that permanent magnets are in the same class as EMF,

as

there is no electricity involved. Magnets are natural, we have a magnet

in our brains! In the pineal gland. The body is supposed to have

magnetic fields, it uses them. The body also relies on the earth's

magnetic field. A permanent magnet can be very helpful with many

medical conditions.

But I agree with you that the sensitivity to even permanent magnets

could change, I have experienced this. When I am sick for example, my

sensitivity to the magnets changes a bit, but usually I actually need

them even more during that time.

I think this is complicated, the problems occur when an external field

interferes with our own field. Perhaps tolerance will vary according to

the type of illness a person has. Much of this also may relate to ion

channelopathies. I usually take electrolytes every few hours, and that

helps me a great deal.

---------------------------------

New Messenger with Voice. Call regular phones from your PC for

low, low rates.

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