Re: How many Strength qualities should be developed at once?

[Guest guest]

Interesting question that I'm sure will create some discussion. I certainly

don't have the answers, but I think there are some general comments that might

be pertinent.

First - there is more than one road to Rome.

Second - as a general rule motor skills should be trained similar to actual

sporting performance. So, what sport you are training for can obviously effect

this. As an example of this point - learning a move in wrestling. You would

first try and learn the skill while you are fresh. However, once you have a

motor pattern learnt you'd try and execute it under different conditions.

Generally I prefer to start with speed strength and then go to either maximal

strength or strength endurance, since my sports tend to be power sports.

Third - some thought should be taken to restoration. Once again, as a general

rule restoration is quicker for speed strength or power, while more time is

generally required for strength endurance. Maximal strength can also be

problematic, but it really depends on how it is developed.

Fourth - there is a school of thought on 'complex training' you may find

interesting. The idea is that max strength and speed strength can augment one

another if performed concurrently. However, it is an area of some complexity (I

had to say that!). Seriously, whether there is a neurological affect, a skill

transfer affect or what is somewhat ambiguous, but pragmatically it seems to

work.

You may also want to look up the concept of 'conjugate periodization' for the

concurrent training of different qualities.

Bottom line is - there actually has been quite a bit of discussion. My own

opinion is that different things work, especially if the prescription is in

discrete training doses. The important thing is to develop a rationale plan that

makes sense to you, and be careful of restoration issues.

Hobman

Saskatoon, Canada

On 5/4/11 12:48 PM, lmann2008 wrote:

> I am fairly new to the strength and conditioning realm, but I'm catching on

quick with some of the must-reads. One issue I don't believe I have found to be

addressed(or somehow I've eluded) is whether the sports functional strength

qualities should all be addressed only with priority changing between qualities

within, say, a microcycle or even each workout. Are there combinations you

shouldn't train together or some that may augment the effects of another,

acutely? Could I start a session addressing explosive strength, move to maximal

strength and finally strength endurance? Or Should they be split to separate

days for the best results?

>

> Thanks,

> Lonnie Mann

> Gulfport, MS

> United States

>

[Guest guest]

Would possibly depend on:

*Level of Qualification and Training History of the Athlete

*Bioenergetic / Mechanical Demands of the Sport

*Aims and Objectives of Athlete

*Phase of Training / Sport

*Volume and Intensity of Stimuli

*Rest/Timing between combinations

Don't forget the inter-relationship of these types of " strengths " you have

referred to also.

Carruthers

Wakefield, UK

>

> I am fairly new to the strength and conditioning realm, but I'm catching on

quick with some of the must-reads. One issue I don't believe I have found to be

addressed(or somehow I've eluded) is whether the sports functional strength

qualities should all be addressed only with priority changing between qualities

within, say, a microcycle or even each workout. Are there combinations you

shouldn't train together or some that may augment the effects of another,

acutely? Could I start a session addressing explosive strength, move to maximal

strength and finally strength endurance? Or Should they be split to separate

days for the best results?

>

> Thanks,

> Lonnie Mann

> Gulfport, MS

> United States

>

[Guest guest]

Zatsiorsky and Kraemer explain well this concept in qualitative terms,

using the Force-Velocity curve. The curve makes it easier to grasp why there

is a trade off between speed and strength, and depending on your particular

sport movement you target the ideal amount of strength improvement and the

ideal amount of speed improvement. If you try to increase one of the two it

comes at the expense of the other.

Zatsiorsky VM, Kraemer WJ. *Science and Practice of Strength Training,

Second Edition*. 2nd ed. Human Kinetics Publishers; 2006.

Giovanni Ciriani - West Hartford, CT - USA

On Wed, May 4, 2011 at 2:48 PM, lmann2008 <lmann2008@...> wrote:

>

>

> I am fairly new to the strength and conditioning realm, but I'm catching on

> quick with some of the must-reads. One issue I don't believe I have found to

> be addressed(or somehow I've eluded) is whether the sports functional

> strength qualities should all be addressed only with priority changing

> between qualities within, say, a microcycle or even each workout. Are there

> combinations you shouldn't train together or some that may augment the

> effects of another, acutely? Could I start a session addressing explosive

> strength, move to maximal strength and finally strength endurance? Or Should

> they be split to separate days for the best results?

>

> Thanks,

> Lonnie Mann

> Gulfport, MS

> United States

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

I think this question is really very interesting. And the fact that just only 3

or 4 people tried to answer such a huge question means that all of us don't know

which is the correct answer.

In ciclyst's training I use to mix different intensities (heart rate), movement

patterns (different RPM or cadence), and speeds in the same session. For

example,

-20 km warm up, changing cadence and speeds.

-Anaerobic threshold: 10 x 3 km (HR: 160 - 170).

-Recovery: 10 km (HR: 130 - 140).

-Aerobic power: 15 km time trial (HR: 180 or more).

-Aerobic endurance (low intensity): 30 km (HR: 140). 2 km RPM 110 x 1 km RPM 90.

Is it possible to plan a similar weight lifting session? (3 exercises for

maximun strenght, other 3 for explosive strenght, and 3 more for endurance

strenght?)

Does it have sense?

There is a lot of articles about strenght activation before explosive exercises

(examples: jumps or sprints). But I don't know much more about the question that

our friend ask to all of us.

We are accustomed to alternate different ways of strenght training in different

mesocyles (anatomic adaptation, maximun strenght, explosive strenght).

Is it possible in a session?

Is it possible in the same microcycle?

Very interesting questions.

I would like that all of us discuss about it.

Andrés Esper.

Argentina.

Enviado desde mi BlackBerry de Movistar

[Guest guest]

Andrés Esper wrote:

I think this question is really very interesting. And the fact that just only 3

or 4 people tried to answer such a huge question means that all of us don't

know which is the correct answer.

-----

Andres,

You're absolutely right - it's a fascinating question that gets into

periodization strategies.

There's quite a bit of evidence supporting the idea that concurrent/parallel

training causes an interference effect. That seems to be most apparent when

doing endurance and strength training simultaneously, where the former really

seems to arrest development of the latter. Recent studies point to intracellular

signaling pathways (triggered by lots of metabolic activity) as the likely

mechanism for this.

Since certain strength qualities involve training with high volume loads -

" strength endurance " being an obvious example - it's likely that the same issue

can occur even when traditional " energy system " development isn't part of the

program.

Hence the role of strategies like sequenced training, which are intended to

circumvent the problem. Dr Verkhohansky's conjugate sequence method is a classic

example that has been discussed at length in this forum. A quick search of the

archives will bring up many threads on the subject.

Regards,

Plisk

ExcelsiorSports.com

Derby CT

Prepare To Be A Champion!

[Guest guest]

Effects of combined endurance and strength training on muscle strength, power

and hypertrophy in 40–67-year-old men

L. Karavirta1, A. Hkkinen2,3, E. Sillanp1, D. García-López4, A. Kauhanen1, A.

Haapasaari1, M. Alen5, A. Pakarinen6, W. J. Kraemer7, M. Izquierdo8, E.

Gorostiaga8, K. Hkkinen1Article first published online: 18 DEC 2009

Scandinavian Journal of Medicine & Science in Sports

Volume 21, Issue 3, pages 402–411, June 2011

Both strength and endurance training have several positive effects on aging

muscle and physical performance of middle-aged and older adults, but their

combination may compromise optimal adaptation. This study examined the possible

interference of combined strength and endurance training on neuromuscular

performance and skeletal muscle hypertrophy in previously untrained

40–67-year-old men.

Maximal strength and muscle activation in the upper and lower extremities,

maximal concentric power, aerobic capacity and muscle fiber size and

distribution in the vastus lateralis muscle were measured before and after a

21-week training period. Ninety-six men [mean age 56 (SD 7) years] completed

high-intensity strength training (S) twice a week, endurance training (E) twice

a week, combined training (SE) four times per week or served as controls ©. SE

and S led to similar gains in one repetition maximum strength of the lower

extremities [22 (9)% and 21 (8)%, P<0.001], whereas E and C showed minor

changes. Cross-sectional area of type II muscle fibers only increased in S [26

(22)%, P=0.002], while SE showed an inconsistent, non-significant change [8

(35)%, P=0.73].

Combined training may interfere with muscle hypertrophy in aging men, despite

similar gains in maximal strength between the strength and the combined training

groups.

===================

Training for Endurance and Strength: Lessons

from Cell Signaling

KEITH BAAR

ABSTRACT

BAAR, K. Training for Endurance and Strength: Lessons from Cell Signaling. Med.

Sci. Sports Exerc., Vol. 38, No. 11, pp. 1939–1944,

2006. The classic work of Hickson demonstrated that training for both strength

and endurance at the same time results in less

adaptation compared with training for either one alone: this has been described

as the concurrent training effect. Generally, resistance

exercise results in an increase in muscle mass, and endurance exercise results

in an increase in muscle capillary density, mitochondrial

protein, fatty acid–oxidation enzymes, and more metabolically efficient forms of

contractile and regulatory proteins. In the 25 yr since

Hickson`s initial description, there have been a number of important advances in

the understanding of the molecular regulation of

muscle`s adaptation to exercise that may enable explanation of this phenomenon

at the molecular level. As will be described in depth

in the following four papers, two serine/threonine protein kinases in particular

play a particularly important role in this process.

Protein kinase B/Akt can both activate protein synthesis and decrease protein

breakdown, thus leading to hypertrophy, and AMPactivated

protein kinase can increase mitochondrial protein, glucose transport, and a

number of other factors that result in an

endurance phenotype. Not only are PKB and AMPK central to the generation of the

resistance and endurance phenotypes, they also

block each other`s downstream signaling. The consequence of these interactions

is a direct molecular blockade hindering the

development of the concurrent training phenotype. A better understanding of the

activation of these molecular pathways after exercise

and how they interact will allow development of better training programs to

maximize both strength and endurance. Key Words:

HYPERTROPHY, MITOCHONDRIAL, BIOGENESIS, EXERCISE

==================

Carruthers

Wakefield, UK

> I think this question is really very interesting. And the fact that just only

3

> or 4 people tried to answer such a huge question means that all of us don't

> know which is the correct answer.

> -----

>

> Andres,

>

> You're absolutely right - it's a fascinating question that gets into

> periodization strategies.

>

> There's quite a bit of evidence supporting the idea that concurrent/parallel

> training causes an interference effect. That seems to be most apparent when

> doing endurance and strength training simultaneously, where the former really

> seems to arrest development of the latter. Recent studies point to

intracellular

> signaling pathways (triggered by lots of metabolic activity) as the likely

> mechanism for this.

>

> Since certain strength qualities involve training with high volume loads -

> " strength endurance " being an obvious example - it's likely that the same

issue

> can occur even when traditional " energy system " development isn't part of the

> program.

>

> Hence the role of strategies like sequenced training, which are intended to

> circumvent the problem. Dr Verkhohansky's conjugate sequence method is a

classic

> example that has been discussed at length in this forum. A quick search of the

> archives will bring up many threads on the subject.

>

>

> Regards,

>

> Plisk

> ExcelsiorSports.com

> Derby CT

> Prepare To Be A Champion!

>

>

[Guest guest]

, thanks for posting those studies. Great info as always.

This issue is one of the central problems in performance training, in my

experience. One one hand, we have to zero in on the performance target(s) that

correspond to the demands of an athlete's sport. In a word, ourstrengthtraining

needs to be specific.

On the other hand, we need enough variation in training stimulus such that

adaptation doesn't accommodate and stagnate. The earlier an athlete is in

his/her development, the broader that bandwidth of variation should be; whereas

the later they are in their development, the narrower/more focused it becomes.

Dr V's conjugate sequence method was developed to address the problem of working

with advanced athletes. The basic principles of this method are pretty well

understood now. But it would be very helpful to know how he and others dealt

with the specificity/variation issue during " unidirectional blocks " of strength

development. My guess is that it was a matter of emphasis, rather than of going

totally specific.

Two reasons for that guess:

* 'Complexing' various strength tasks tends to amplify their overall effect. So

we can make a good case for including some nonspecific movements to complement

the specific ones - sort of like a pitcher throwing a curveball to set up a

fastball.

* While the stretch-shortening cycle is a distinct ability in elite athletes,

its performance requires allstrength qualities to behighly developed. Once

again, even when focusing on the elastic-reactive strength involved in running

or jumping, it makes sense to complement this with some heavy resistance work

etc.

Others' thoughts?

Regards,

Plisk

ExcelsiorSports.com

Derby CT

Prepare To Be A Champion!

________________________________

Effects of combined endurance and strength training on muscle strength, power

and hypertrophy in 40–67-year-old men

L. Karavirta1, A. Hkkinen2,3, E. Sillanp1, D. García-López4, A. Kauhanen1, A.

Haapasaari1, M. Alen5, A. Pakarinen6, W. J. Kraemer7, M. Izquierdo8, E.

Gorostiaga8, K. Hkkinen1Article first published online: 18 DEC 2009

Scandinavian Journal of Medicine & Science in Sports

Volume 21, Issue 3, pages 402–411, June 2011

Both strength and endurance training have several positive effects on aging

muscle and physical performance of middle-aged and older adults, but their

combination may compromise optimal adaptation. This study examined the possible

interference of combined strength and endurance training on neuromuscular

performance and skeletal muscle hypertrophy in previously untrained

40–67-year-old men.

Maximal strength and muscle activation in the upper and lower extremities,

maximal concentric power, aerobic capacity and muscle fiber size and

distribution in the vastus lateralis muscle were measured before and after a

21-week training period. Ninety-six men [mean age 56 (SD 7) years] completed

high-intensity strength training (S) twice a week, endurance training (E) twice

a week, combined training (SE) four times per week or served as controls ©. SE

and S led to similar gains in one repetition maximum strength of the lower

extremities [22 (9)% and 21 (8)%, P<0.001], whereas E and C showed minor

changes. Cross-sectional area of type II muscle fibers only increased in S [26

(22)%, P=0.002], while SE showed an inconsistent, non-significant change [8

(35)%, P=0.73].

Combined training may interfere with muscle hypertrophy in aging men, despite

similar gains in maximal strength between the strength and the combined training

groups.

============ =======

Training for Endurance and Strength: Lessons

from Cell Signaling

KEITH BAAR

ABSTRACT

BAAR, K. Training for Endurance and Strength: Lessons from Cell Signaling. Med.

Sci. Sports Exerc., Vol. 38, No. 11, pp. 1939–1944,

2006. The classic work of Hickson demonstrated that training for both strength

and endurance at the same time results in less

adaptation compared with training for either one alone: this has been described

as the concurrent training effect. Generally, resistance

exercise results in an increase in muscle mass, and endurance exercise results

in an increase in muscle capillary density, mitochondrial

protein, fatty acid–oxidation enzymes, and more metabolically efficient forms

of

contractile and regulatory proteins. In the 25 yr since

Hickson`s initial description, there have been a number of important advances in

the understanding of the molecular regulation of

muscle`s adaptation to exercise that may enable explanation of this phenomenon

at the molecular level. As will be described in depth

in the following four papers, two serine/threonine protein kinases in particular

play a particularly important role in this process.

Protein kinase B/Akt can both activate protein synthesis and decrease protein

breakdown, thus leading to hypertrophy, and AMPactivated

protein kinase can increase mitochondrial protein, glucose transport, and a

number of other factors that result in an

endurance phenotype. Not only are PKB and AMPK central to the generation of the

resistance and endurance phenotypes, they also

block each other`s downstream signaling. The consequence of these interactions

is a direct molecular blockade hindering the

development of the concurrent training phenotype. A better understanding of the

activation of these molecular pathways after exercise

and how they interact will allow development of better training programs to

maximize both strength and endurance. Key Words:

HYPERTROPHY, MITOCHONDRIAL, BIOGENESIS, EXERCISE

============ ======

Carruthers

Wakefield, UK

[Guest guest]

>

> , thanks for posting those studies. Great info as always.

>

> This issue is one of the central problems in performance training, in my

> experience. One one hand, we have to zero in on the performance target(s) that

> correspond to the demands of an athlete's sport. In a word,

ourstrengthtraining

> needs to be specific.

>

> On the other hand, we need enough variation in training stimulus such that

> adaptation doesn't accommodate and stagnate. The earlier an athlete is in

> his/her development, the broader that bandwidth of variation should be;

whereas

> the later they are in their development, the narrower/more focused it becomes.

>

> Dr V's conjugate sequence method was developed to address the problem of

working

> with advanced athletes. The basic principles of this method are pretty well

> understood now. But it would be very helpful to know how he and others dealt

> with the specificity/variation issue during " unidirectional blocks " of

strength

> development. My guess is that it was a matter of emphasis, rather than of

going

> totally specific.

>

> Others' thoughts?

***

It's interesting to note that the next logical step in the evolution of Ivan

Abadjiev's " system " was the omission of squats entirely (personal communication

with Glenn Pendlay). Remove all other " stressors " allowing greater

concentration on the lifts. As a consequence, the " adaptive ability " of the

body is enhanced?

Carruthers

Wakefield, UK

[Guest guest]

Carruthers wrote:

It's interesting to note that the next logical step in the evolution of Ivan

Abadjiev's " system " was the omission of squats entirely (personal communication

with Glenn Pendlay). Remove all other " stressors " allowing greater

concentration on the lifts. As a consequence, the " adaptive ability " of the

body is enhanced?

-----

,

That's an interesting point. Considering the weights the Bulgarian lifters would

be squatting by the time they qualified for his group, it would be the mother of

all stressors!

Depending on whose stories we believe, apparently they used some type of 1-leg

squat or step-up for a while as an alternative (as a way to unload the spine).

It's wild that Coach Abadjiev decided to omit squats completely though. When

working with such advanced athletes, some interesting decisions probably need to

be made in the interests of specificity or recovery.

Regards,

Plisk

ExcelsiorSports.com

Derby CT

Prepare To Be A Champion!

[Guest guest]

It is my understanding the one-legged squat or, more correctly, the step-up has

never been a part of any Bulgarian weightlifting coaches training. I'm going by

memory, but when I did a search some months ago the one-legged squat was simply

an internet legend.

Is there any evidence of the one-legged step-up as a focal exercise in the

training of a Bulgarian or Bulgarian influenced weightlifter? By this I mean a

competitive weightlifter? I have found nothing myself.

I think you could argue the exercise has efficacy for athletes where unilateral

strength is required, but for a weightlifter the front squat (IMO) is far more

effective since strength needs to be developed bi-laterally.

Hobman

Saskatoon, Canada

On 5/17/11 8:14 AM, Plisk wrote:

> Carruthers wrote:

> It's interesting to note that the next logical step in the evolution of Ivan

> Abadjiev's " system " was the omission of squats entirely (personal

communication

> with Glenn Pendlay). Remove all other " stressors " allowing greater

> concentration on the lifts. As a consequence, the " adaptive ability " of the

> body is enhanced?

>

> -----

>

> ,

>

> That's an interesting point. Considering the weights the Bulgarian lifters

would

> be squatting by the time they qualified for his group, it would be the mother

of

> all stressors!

>

> Depending on whose stories we believe, apparently they used some type of 1-leg

> squat or step-up for a while as an alternative (as a way to unload the spine).

> It's wild that Coach Abadjiev decided to omit squats completely though. When

> working with such advanced athletes, some interesting decisions probably need

to

> be made in the interests of specificity or recovery.

>

>

> Regards,

>

> Plisk

> ExcelsiorSports.com

> Derby CT

> Prepare To Be A Champion!

>

>

[Guest guest]

There have been passed a couple of weeks since this question was written.

There have been 6 or 7 answers and none of them were similar.

Two papers were posted. It is my opinion that both are not able to answer the

question because first of all those surveys combine strength and endurance (they

didn't combine different types of strenght in the same session). Second, the

population in one of them was elder untrained people. I think that it is totally

different training an untrained people than a trained men or women. Also, we

could say that, it doesn't matter what to do with unfit people because

everything fits well. I am saying that if you train a 60 years old sedentary

woman just only walking 30 minutes per day, it could be very possible that not

only her aerobic power improve but also her strenght.

I would like to say that we have to focus in trained people. Imagine that we

have to train an athlete who is able to run 100 m in 11 seconds, or a

basquetball player who plays in some national league. I mean, people who have a

good fitness level, a clear objective and many years training.

Because I don't think that the answer for that question could be read in a

paper, I would like to write my opinion about some hypothetic situation.

First of all, we have to analyse how many types of strenghts our athlete needs.

Imagine that he is a rugbier. Depending his position he needs different

strenght's types. A forward player need maximun strenght (to push and pull),

explosive strenght to shorts sprints and tackle, and resistance strenght (to

push some long seconds or to be used in some intense repetitive short

situations).

Second, we have to analyse the time we have in each session and player's

experience. Maybe, we train weight lifting 4 times per week, 1 - 1,5 hour per

session. Our player has been training for 10 years. Then, we have to plan

specific trainings.

Now, we could think in the question. I have choose some sport that needs

different types of strenghts. In other sports, this discussion it could not be

possible.

We are accustomed to combine different mesocycles. 1) Maximun strenght (M.S.).

2) Explosive strenght (E.S.). 3) Resistance strenght (R.S.).

Also we use some transference exercises from M.S. to explosive or speed

exercises (jumps and sprints). And there are papers' evidence that the former

activate the latter.

If we focus in combining in different sessions the 3 types of strenghts in one

week, we have to decide if just only one session of MS, ES or RS is sufficient.

If we want to combine them in the same session, we have to decide if we have

enough time.

Also we have to think if there is a trace from the previous training that

improve or affect the following.

I believe that if we need to improve a strenght type, we need time. Therefore,

we need to focus in a type. Also we need to focus in maximun strenght before

resistance str.

Next to competitions we can decrease trainings and train different types in the

same week or sesion. Also, we can use some kind of circuit for this purpose.

Finally, there isn't just only an answer. Depending on the player, the sport,

the anual period, etc, we have to take a decission and planing.

I believe that it could not be correct to combine in the same session different

types of strenghts in preparation period and it could be possible and good next

to competitions.

I'll appreciate your comments.

Since I am not English native speaker, I apologize for some possible grammar

mistakes.

Sincerely,

Andrés Esper.

Argentina.

Enviado desde mi BlackBerry de Movistar

[Guest guest]

I'm not entirely sure what you mean by " resistance strength, " but you are

correct, the first step in determining how many should be developed is

determining what is needed. I still feel that the studies posted are relevant,

since athletes like basketball and soccer players, as well as rugby, need to

have a well-developed aerobic capacity, in addition to being as explosive as

possible, and in the case of rugby players (not all positions), as strong as

possible.

Additionally, the question of how many can be developed, and how many can be

optimized are separate discussions.

Brock LegginsNorwalk, IA

> Supertraining

> From: esperandres@...

> Date: Fri, 20 May 2011 04:58:41 +0000

> Subject: Re: How many Strength qualities should be developed

at once?

>

> There have been passed a couple of weeks since this question was written.

>

> There have been 6 or 7 answers and none of them were similar.

>

> Two papers were posted. It is my opinion that both are not able to answer the

question because first of all those surveys combine strength and endurance (they

didn't combine different types of strenght in the same session). Second, the

population in one of them was elder untrained people. I think that it is totally

different training an untrained people than a trained men or women. Also, we

could say that, it doesn't matter what to do with unfit people because

everything fits well. I am saying that if you train a 60 years old sedentary

woman just only walking 30 minutes per day, it could be very possible that not

only her aerobic power improve but also her strenght.

>

> I would like to say that we have to focus in trained people. Imagine that we

have to train an athlete who is able to run 100 m in 11 seconds, or a

basquetball player who plays in some national league. I mean, people who have a

good fitness level, a clear objective and many years training.

>

> Because I don't think that the answer for that question could be read in a

paper, I would like to write my opinion about some hypothetic situation.

>

> First of all, we have to analyse how many types of strenghts our athlete

needs. Imagine that he is a rugbier. Depending his position he needs different

strenght's types. A forward player need maximun strenght (to push and pull),

explosive strenght to shorts sprints and tackle, and resistance strenght (to

push some long seconds or to be used in some intense repetitive short

situations).

>

> Second, we have to analyse the time we have in each session and player's

experience. Maybe, we train weight lifting 4 times per week, 1 - 1,5 hour per

session. Our player has been training for 10 years. Then, we have to plan

specific trainings.

>

> Now, we could think in the question. I have choose some sport that needs

different types of strenghts. In other sports, this discussion it could not be

possible.

>

> We are accustomed to combine different mesocycles. 1) Maximun strenght (M.S.).

2) Explosive strenght (E.S.). 3) Resistance strenght (R.S.).

>

> Also we use some transference exercises from M.S. to explosive or speed

exercises (jumps and sprints). And there are papers' evidence that the former

activate the latter.

>

> If we focus in combining in different sessions the 3 types of strenghts in one

week, we have to decide if just only one session of MS, ES or RS is sufficient.

>

> If we want to combine them in the same session, we have to decide if we have

enough time.

>

> Also we have to think if there is a trace from the previous training that

improve or affect the following.

>

> I believe that if we need to improve a strenght type, we need time.

Therefore, we need to focus in a type. Also we need to focus in maximun strenght

before resistance str.

>

> Next to competitions we can decrease trainings and train different types in

the same week or sesion. Also, we can use some kind of circuit for this purpose.

>

> Finally, there isn't just only an answer. Depending on the player, the sport,

the anual period, etc, we have to take a decission and planing.

> I believe that it could not be correct to combine in the same session

different types of strenghts in preparation period and it could be possible and

good next to competitions.

>

> I'll appreciate your comments.

>

> Since I am not English native speaker, I apologize for some possible grammar

mistakes.

>

> Sincerely,

>

> Andrés Esper.

> Argentina.

> Enviado desde mi BlackBerry de Movistar

>

> ------------------------------------

>

> Modify/cancel your subscription at:

>

> mygroups

>

> Sign all letters with full name & city of residence if you

> wish them to be published!

>

>

[Guest guest]

Andres,

You make some good points. This issue gets into planning, the complexity of

which is probably the reason for the varied answers.

If this were a forum on sport coaching, and we were addressing the question " how

many plays should be executed at once? " , I think we'd have a similar problem. In

my experience, a good place to start is best practices - and the

evidence/principles they are based on.

Two strategies that can be very useful are summated training and sequenced

training. Both are appropriate for athletes at the more advanced end of the

continuum, when the fitness qualities being developed are few in number and

pretty specialized. But unless one strength quality is being developed for its

own sake, it's impractical to boil the issue down to a number.

I think the take away message is to:

- have a clear picture of the performance target, and make that the primary

focus

- complement specific preparation with enough general preparation to yield

further adaptation

Regards,

Plisk

ExcelsiorSports.com

Derby CT

Prepare To Be A Champion!

________________________________

There have been passed a couple of weeks since this question was written.

There have been 6 or 7 answers and none of them were similar.

Two papers were posted. It is my opinion that both are not able to answer the

question because first of all those surveys combine strength and endurance

(they didn't combine different types of strenght in the same session). Second,

the population in one of them was elder untrained people. I think that it is

totally different training an untrained people than a trained men or women.

Also, we could say that, it doesn't matter what to do with unfit people because

everything fits well. I am saying that if you train a 60 years old sedentary

woman just only walking 30 minutes per day, it could be very possible that not

only her aerobic power improve but also her strenght.

I would like to say that we have to focus in trained people. Imagine that we

have to train an athlete who is able to run 100 m in 11 seconds, or a

basquetball player who plays in some national league. I mean, people who have a

good fitness level, a clear objective and many years training.

Because I don't think that the answer for that question could be read in a

paper, I would like to write my opinion about some hypothetic situation.

First of all, we have to analyse how many types of strenghts our athlete needs.

Imagine that he is a rugbier. Depending his position he needs different

strenght's types. A forward player need maximun strenght (to push and pull),

explosive strenght to shorts sprints and tackle, and resistance strenght (to

push some long seconds or to be used in some intense repetitive short

situations).

Second, we have to analyse the time we have in each session and player's

experience. Maybe, we train weight lifting 4 times per week, 1 - 1,5 hour per

session. Our player has been training for 10 years. Then, we have to plan

specific trainings.

Now, we could think in the question. I have choose some sport that needs

different types of strenghts. In other sports, this discussion it could not be

possible.

We are accustomed to combine different mesocycles. 1) Maximun strenght (M.S.).

2) Explosive strenght (E.S.). 3) Resistance strenght (R.S.).

Also we use some transference exercises from M.S. to explosive or speed

exercises (jumps and sprints). And there are papers' evidence that the former

activate the latter.

If we focus in combining in different sessions the 3 types of strenghts in one

week, we have to decide if just only one session of MS, ES or RS is sufficient.

If we want to combine them in the same session, we have to decide if we have

enough time.

Also we have to think if there is a trace from the previous training that

improve or affect the following.

I believe that if we need to improve a strenght type, we need time. Therefore,

we need to focus in a type. Also we need to focus in maximun strenght before

resistance str.

Next to competitions we can decrease trainings and train different types in the

same week or sesion. Also, we can use some kind of circuit for this purpose.

Finally, there isn't just only an answer. Depending on the player, the sport,

the anual period, etc, we have to take a decission and planing.

I believe that it could not be correct to combine in the same session different

types of strenghts in preparation period and it could be possible and good next

to competitions.

I'll appreciate your comments.

Since I am not English native speaker, I apologize for some possible grammar

mistakes.

Sincerely,

Andrés Esper.

Argentina.

Enviado desde mi BlackBerry de Movistar

[Guest guest]

I call " resistance " training to strength training in order to improve the

capacity to do strength during " a long " period of time. I prefer to say

" explosive strenght resistance " when talking about team sports (basquetball,

rugby, handball, etc) because the strength resistance needed is explosive or at

least at high intensity.

Endurance is used to aerobic capacity.

For this reason, I think the mentioned paper, which combines endurance and

strength could not be totally relevant to answer the question: " How many

STRENGTH QUALITIES should be developed at once? " .

Sincerely,

Andres Esper.

Argentina.

Enviado desde mi BlackBerry de Movistar

[Guest guest]

Kim Goss recently noted the following on Goheavy:

During his presentation at the Eleiko Strength Summit last weekend, Ivan

Abadjiev cleared up some misconceptions about Bulgarian weightlifting methods.

Abadjiev's current thinking is that weightlifters should not back squat, unless

an injury prevents them from front squatting. In 1988 I asked Naim Suleymanoglu

about this matter and he said that back squats are " not specific " to

weightlifting. And no, Abadjiev's lifters did not perform lunges, step-ups or

bench presses.

Thank you,

Kim Goss, MS

Poliquin Performance

> >

> > , thanks for posting those studies. Great info as always.

> >

> > This issue is one of the central problems in performance training, in my

> > experience. One one hand, we have to zero in on the performance target(s)

that

> > correspond to the demands of an athlete's sport. In a word,

ourstrengthtraining

> > needs to be specific.

> >

> > On the other hand, we need enough variation in training stimulus such that

> > adaptation doesn't accommodate and stagnate. The earlier an athlete is in

> > his/her development, the broader that bandwidth of variation should be;

whereas

> > the later they are in their development, the narrower/more focused it

becomes.

> >

> > Dr V's conjugate sequence method was developed to address the problem of

working

> > with advanced athletes. The basic principles of this method are pretty well

> > understood now. But it would be very helpful to know how he and others dealt

> > with the specificity/variation issue during " unidirectional blocks " of

strength

> > development. My guess is that it was a matter of emphasis, rather than of

going

> > totally specific.

> >

> > Others' thoughts?

>

> ***

> It's interesting to note that the next logical step in the evolution of Ivan

Abadjiev's " system " was the omission of squats entirely (personal communication

with Glenn Pendlay). Remove all other " stressors " allowing greater

concentration on the lifts. As a consequence, the " adaptive ability " of the

body is enhanced?

>

> Carruthers

> Wakefield, UK

>