Re: Spironolactone and alcohol

[Guest guest]

If you are having trouble with alcohol cravings, you might want to check out the

medication Baclofen.

>

> I have always been a heavy drinker, or alcohol abuser if you prefer. But

for the last few years I have been taking 50 mg of Spironolactone a day and I

cut back dramatically on the amount I drank – going days even weeks at a time

without drinking at all.

>

> Recently my Doctor took my off Spiro to prepare for AVS. Within a few days,

I found myself drawn back to my old practice of daily heavy drinking.

>

> Is it possible that the without the Spiro, I am drinking to self medicate the

stress induced by higher Aldosterone levels. Or am I fooling myself with one of

those rationalisations addicts become so good at?

>

> On separate but related issue – without the Spiro my BP has obviously gone up

– but how high is too high? I am getting numbers like 200/77 and 198/67 -

should I be worried?

>

[Guest guest]

Some studies link Aldosterone to depression and treating with Sprio helps with

depression. It may be your alcohol problem is due to depression.

> >

> > I have always been a heavy drinker, or alcohol abuser if you prefer. But

for the last few years I have been taking 50 mg of Spironolactone a day and I

cut back dramatically on the amount I drank – going days even weeks at a time

without drinking at all.

> >

> > Recently my Doctor took my off Spiro to prepare for AVS. Within a few

days, I found myself drawn back to my old practice of daily heavy drinking.

> >

> > Is it possible that the without the Spiro, I am drinking to self medicate

the stress induced by higher Aldosterone levels. Or am I fooling myself with

one of those rationalisations addicts become so good at?

> >

> > On separate but related issue – without the Spiro my BP has obviously gone

up – but how high is too high? I am getting numbers like 200/77 and 198/67 -

should I be worried?

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Francis, can you provide your source? The only study I'm aware of is:

http://archpsyc.ama-assn.org/cgi/content/full/60/1/24

(Mineralocorticoid Receptor Function in Major Depression) and my psychiatrist

would not tke a position on it.

Thanks

> > >

> > > I have always been a heavy drinker, or alcohol abuser if you prefer.

But for the last few years I have been taking 50 mg of Spironolactone a day

and I cut back dramatically on the amount I drank – going days even weeks at a

time without drinking at all.

> > >

> > > Recently my Doctor took my off Spiro to prepare for AVS. Within a few

days, I found myself drawn back to my old practice of daily heavy drinking.

> > >

> > > Is it possible that the without the Spiro, I am drinking to self medicate

the stress induced by higher Aldosterone levels. Or am I fooling myself with

one of those rationalisations addicts become so good at?

> > >

> > > On separate but related issue – without the Spiro my BP has obviously

gone up – but how high is too high? I am getting numbers like 200/77 and

198/67 - should I be worried?

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Here is one source I have seen others.

http://ajp.psychiatryonline.org/article.aspx?Volume=162 & page=1226 & journalID=13

> > > >

> > > > I have always been a heavy drinker, or alcohol abuser if you prefer.

But for the last few years I have been taking 50 mg of Spironolactone a day

and I cut back dramatically on the amount I drank – going days even weeks at a

time without drinking at all.

> > > >

> > > > Recently my Doctor took my off Spiro to prepare for AVS. Within a few

days, I found myself drawn back to my old practice of daily heavy drinking.

> > > >

> > > > Is it possible that the without the Spiro, I am drinking to self

medicate the stress induced by higher Aldosterone levels. Or am I fooling

myself with one of those rationalisations addicts become so good at?

> > > >

> > > > On separate but related issue – without the Spiro my BP has obviously

gone up – but how high is too high? I am getting numbers like 200/77 and

198/67 - should I be worried?

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

I do not have the links to the research, however Spiro increases cortisol levels

and elevated cortisol is correlated with many psychiatric issues, such as

anxiety and depression. Mental health research has focused on cortisol levels

quite a bit. My husband and his colleague J. Dabbs are a couple of the authors

of some of that research. They looked at cortisol levels with many different

population groups, mostly criminal offenders. They also looked at the same

populations and their testosterone levels. Conversly, low levels of cortisol, or

adrenal insufficiency is also linked with depression as a symptom. Pub Med has a

number of articles from NIMH (National Institutes of Mental Health) on cortisol

relating to mental health. They might even have it for aldosterone levels, I

haven't looked, but aldo levels, cortisol, and all the related hormones that

spiro supresses and elevates have many, many mental health impacts...i would

bet. After all, hormones rule just about everything, don't they?

> > > > >

> > > > > I have always been a heavy drinker, or alcohol abuser if you prefer.

But for the last few years I have been taking 50 mg of Spironolactone a day

and I cut back dramatically on the amount I drank – going days even weeks at a

time without drinking at all.

> > > > >

> > > > > Recently my Doctor took my off Spiro to prepare for AVS. Within a

few days, I found myself drawn back to my old practice of daily heavy drinking.

> > > > >

> > > > > Is it possible that the without the Spiro, I am drinking to self

medicate the stress induced by higher Aldosterone levels. Or am I fooling

myself with one of those rationalisations addicts become so good at?

> > > > >

> > > > > On separate but related issue – without the Spiro my BP has obviously

gone up – but how high is too high? I am getting numbers like 200/77 and

198/67 - should I be worried?

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Okay, I guess I can buy that but it looks more likely to be the fact that Spironolactone resolved the K+ issue which in turn resolved the MDD issue. "It is possible that the hypokalemia detected later in this patient may have been the causal factor for his illness. Depression has been reported as a symptom of hypokalemia and other electrolyte disturbances"

I don't often "hang my hat" on a study of one unless that one is ME!

> > > > >> > > > > I have always been a heavy drinker, or alcohol abuser if you prefer. But for the last few years I have been taking 50 mg of Spironolactone a day and I cut back dramatically on the amount I drank – going days even weeks at a time without drinking at all. > > > > > > > > > > Recently my Doctor took my off Spiro to prepare for AVS. Within a few days, I found myself drawn back to my old practice of daily heavy drinking.> > > > > > > > > > Is it possible that the without the Spiro, I am drinking to self medicate the stress induced by higher Aldosterone levels. Or am I fooling myself with one of those rationalisations addicts become so good at?> > > > > > > > > > On separate but related issue – without the Spiro my BP has obviously gone up – but how high is too high? I am getting numbers like 200/77 and 198/67 - should I be worried?> > > > >> > > >> > >> >>

[Guest guest]

Yep that is too high but are you DASHING? if not then do it. May your pressure be low!CE Grim MS, MDSpecializing in DifficultHypertensionOn Mar 24, 2012, at 16:42, Alan <alanttt3@...> wrote:

I have always been a heavy drinker, or alcohol abuser if you prefer. But for the last few years I have been taking 50 mg of Spironolactone a day and I cut back dramatically on the amount I drank – going days even weeks at a time without drinking at all.

Recently my Doctor took my off Spiro to prepare for AVS. Within a few days, I found myself drawn back to my old practice of daily heavy drinking.

Is it possible that the without the Spiro, I am drinking to self medicate the stress induced by higher Aldosterone levels. Or am I fooling myself with one of those rationalisations addicts become so good at?

On separate but related issue – without the Spiro my BP has obviously gone up – but how high is too high? I am getting numbers like 200/77 and 198/67 - should I be worried?

[Guest guest]

Here is a picture of what Spironolactone does to cortisol:

http://archpsyc.ama-assn.org/cgi/content-nw/full/60/1/24/FIGYOA20492F1

(Stolen from: http://archpsyc.ama-assn.org/cgi/content/full/60/1/24 )

> > > > > >> > > > > > I have always been a heavy drinker, or alcohol abuser if you prefer. But for the last few years I have been taking 50 mg of Spironolactone a day and I cut back dramatically on the amount I drank – going days even weeks at a time without drinking at all. > > > > > > > > > > > > Recently my Doctor took my off Spiro to prepare for AVS. Within a few days, I found myself drawn back to my old practice of daily heavy drinking.> > > > > > > > > > > > Is it possible that the without the Spiro, I am drinking to self medicate the stress induced by higher Aldosterone levels. Or am I fooling myself with one of those rationalisations addicts become so good at?> > > > > > > > > > > > On separate but related issue – without the Spiro my BP has obviously gone up – but how high is too high? I am getting numbers like 200/77 and 198/67 - should I be worried?> > > > > >> > > > >> > > >> > >> >>

[Guest guest]

Drinking mORE THAN 2 a day will ncrease Bp in those who ate Etoh sensitive. May your pressure be low!CE Grim MS, MDSpecializing in DifficultHypertensionOn Mar 24, 2012, at 16:45, maggiekat7 <ljurkovic@...> wrote:

If you are having trouble with alcohol cravings, you might want to check out the medication Baclofen.

>

> I have always been a heavy drinker, or alcohol abuser if you prefer. But for the last few years I have been taking 50 mg of Spironolactone a day and I cut back dramatically on the amount I drank – going days even weeks at a time without drinking at all.

>

> Recently my Doctor took my off Spiro to prepare for AVS. Within a few days, I found myself drawn back to my old practice of daily heavy drinking.

>

> Is it possible that the without the Spiro, I am drinking to self medicate the stress induced by higher Aldosterone levels. Or am I fooling myself with one of those rationalisations addicts become so good at?

>

> On separate but related issue – without the Spiro my BP has obviously gone up – but how high is too high? I am getting numbers like 200/77 and 198/67 - should I be worried?

>

[Guest guest]

Or more likely VVMay your pressure be low!CE Grim MS, MDSpecializing in DifficultHypertensionOn Mar 24, 2012, at 16:59, Francis Bill SUSPECTED PA <georgewbill@...> wrote:

Some studies link Aldosterone to depression and treating with Sprio helps with depression. It may be your alcohol problem is due to depression.

> >

> > I have always been a heavy drinker, or alcohol abuser if you prefer. But for the last few years I have been taking 50 mg of Spironolactone a day and I cut back dramatically on the amount I drank – going days even weeks at a time without drinking at all.

> >

> > Recently my Doctor took my off Spiro to prepare for AVS. Within a few days, I found myself drawn back to my old practice of daily heavy drinking.

> >

> > Is it possible that the without the Spiro, I am drinking to self medicate the stress induced by higher Aldosterone levels. Or am I fooling myself with one of those rationalisations addicts become so good at?

> >

> > On separate but related issue – without the Spiro my BP has obviously gone up – but how high is too high? I am getting numbers like 200/77 and 198/67 - should I be worried?

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Just to be a devil's advocate...I have suffered low k for quite some time now,

even despite k supplementation. I would not blame the low k for any depressive

symptomology, but rather the medical community who drove me nuts while seeking

help for it. That, and spending every day off at a lab or drs. office for the

past few months...would depress anyone. And even with super low k, when I blew

it all off and went skiing for a week (where my cell phone had no reception),

wasn't depressed a bit. Didn't last long, soon back to the grind, and when I

found NIH, got in, and felt like I was getting the help I needed, relieved of

quite a bit of anxiety, frustration, etc. Now, still low k, and with new

diagnosis, elevated anxiety, but not depressed.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I have always been a heavy drinker, or alcohol abuser if you

> prefer. But for the last few years I have been taking 50 mg of

> Spironolactone a day and I cut back dramatically on the amount I drank

> – going days even weeks at a time without drinking at all.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Recently my Doctor took my off Spiro to prepare for AVS.

> Within a few days, I found myself drawn back to my old practice of daily

> heavy drinking.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Is it possible that the without the Spiro, I am drinking to

> self medicate the stress induced by higher Aldosterone levels. Or am I

> fooling myself with one of those rationalisations addicts become so good

> at?

> > > > > >

> > > > > > On separate but related issue – without the Spiro my BP

> has obviously gone up – but how high is too high? I am getting

> numbers like 200/77 and 198/67 - should I be worried?

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

like I said, , you're good!

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > I have always been a heavy drinker, or alcohol abuser if you

> prefer. But for the last few years I have been taking 50 mg of

> Spironolactone a day and I cut back dramatically on the amount I drank

> – going days even weeks at a time without drinking at all.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Recently my Doctor took my off Spiro to prepare for AVS.

> Within a few days, I found myself drawn back to my old practice of daily

> heavy drinking.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Is it possible that the without the Spiro, I am drinking to

> self medicate the stress induced by higher Aldosterone levels. Or am I

> fooling myself with one of those rationalisations addicts become so good

> at?

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > On separate but related issue – without the Spiro my BP

> has obviously gone up – but how high is too high? I am getting

> numbers like 200/77 and 198/67 - should I be worried?

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Frances, , both of you amaze me in your ability to find and post relevant

articles! Thank you!

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > I have always been a heavy drinker, or alcohol abuser if you

> > prefer. But for the last few years I have been taking 50 mg of

> > Spironolactone a day and I cut back dramatically on the amount I drank

> > – going days even weeks at a time without drinking at all.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Recently my Doctor took my off Spiro to prepare for AVS.

> > Within a few days, I found myself drawn back to my old practice of daily

> > heavy drinking.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Is it possible that the without the Spiro, I am drinking to

> > self medicate the stress induced by higher Aldosterone levels. Or am I

> > fooling myself with one of those rationalisations addicts become so good

> > at?

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > On separate but related issue – without the Spiro my BP

> > has obviously gone up – but how high is too high? I am getting

> > numbers like 200/77 and 198/67 - should I be worried?

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Alan, I would say you should be very worried, both about your liver and your blood pressure.  Didn't your doc at least try some other BP meds?Val----- Original Message -----From: hyperaldosteronism@groupscom

 

I have always been a heavy drinker, or alcohol abuser if you prefer. But for the last few years I have been taking 50 mg of Spironolactone a day and I cut back dramatically on the amount I drank going days even weeks at a time without drinking at all.

Recently my Doctor took my off Spiro to prepare for AVS. Within a few days, I found myself drawn back to my old practice of daily heavy drinking.

Is it possible that the without the Spiro, I am drinking to self medicate the stress induced by higher Aldosterone levels. Or am I fooling myself with one of those rationalisations addicts become so good at?

On separate but related issue without the Spiro my BP has obviously gone up but how high is too high? I am getting numbers like 200/77 and 198/67 - should I be worried?

Switch to: Text-Only, Daily Digest • Unsubscribe • Terms of Use

.

[Guest guest]

Just validate my point that since cortisol is so involved and fluctuates due to so many processes that blaming it on just spiro is hard to do. May have been high already, may be high because of other issues unrelated to spiro, may be due to spiro, or all of the above. Hard to know. Most report their anxiety and depression issues got better with treatment of PA. So is it a high or low cortisol "causing" those? Does it cause it or only respond to it? Is something else the reason we have anxiety and depression? Is it our inability to exercise - as that is certainly shown definitively to help both those conditions and increase our "happy" hormones? Just saying it's not likely we can just draw a linear path from spiro to our mental health issues - or whatever issues we believe the cortisol is causing.

It's much deeper and usually much more complicated than that. If it was simple every SSRI would increase our serotonin and dopamine and norepi and we'd all be happy as penguins - all except Al Gores penguins that is. Apparently they're stuck on a lonely melting iceberg looking for food still.

Like I said cortisol goes through these stages with the public - women's health circles mostly - because it's implicated in weight issues and we have been down that road already and we're always looking for the reason we're not weighing what we used to or want to. But we don't really know if it's always cause or effect - Chicken or the egg....or neither...maybe just a bystander.

From: maggiekat7 <ljurkovic@...>Subject: Re: Spironolactone and alcoholhyperaldosteronism Date: Saturday, March 24, 2012, 9:01 PM

Frances, , both of you amaze me in your ability to find and post relevant articles! Thank you!> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > I have always been a heavy drinker, or alcohol abuser if you> > prefer. But for the last few years I have been taking 50 mg of> > Spironolactone a day and I cut back dramatically on the amount I drank> > – going days even weeks at a time without drinking at all.> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > Recently my Doctor took my off Spiro to prepare for AVS.> >

Within a few days, I found myself drawn back to my old practice of daily> > heavy drinking.> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > Is it possible that the without the Spiro, I am drinking to> > self medicate the stress induced by higher Aldosterone levels. Or am I> > fooling myself with one of those rationalisations addicts become so good> > at?> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > On separate but related issue – without the Spiro my BP> > has obviously gone up – but how high is too high? I am getting> > numbers like 200/77 and 198/67 - should I be worried?> > > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > >> > > >> > >>

>>

[Guest guest]

I'll tell you I sure have issues with the psych field in general. To those who follow the classic psych model one would have to believe we are ALL inherently perfect, devoid of sadness, or grief, or shyness, or depression, or anxiety, or worry, or name your diagnosis today.....and we would skip across the planet if it weren't for some hormone being off and then using some "hormone fixer" medicine to replace the happy hormones. Or is too happy a mania and not good either because we have something there fix that one also? So are we all perfect inside, with no flaws unless our hormones mess up. Is no one is evil unless they have a chemical imbalance and so on?

Not sure how psych or the public think we should be. Are we supposed to be zombies without a personality - because what we used to call "character" or personality is now a diagnosis and needs to be treated.

When we were ill, and even still in the process today, going through this horrible medical system were we actually suffering from "anxiety" as a brain disease and mental health diagnosis / dsorder or were we just honestly anxious in response to an expectable situation(s)? Are we truly diagnosably "depressed" when our K is critically low and putting us there, when the real issue is NOT depression at all? I think of myself as being anxious, and maybe feeling down at times in a moment when I deserved to feel down, but I wasn't depressed. I wasn't suffering from anxiety disorder and I would not let that label be afixed to me. I am glad I did that, though that was about the only thing I actually stood my ground on, knowing it was organic and not mental or psych ailing me.

I was actually suffering from stupid doctor disorder and misdiagnosis disease.

Blows my mind how we can give someone a label like depression when they are falsely and not truly depressed - in truth if the health problem is fixed then they aren't actually mentally depressed. I think this system sucks with the labels and we're endowed by God with personalities - much of which we need to overcome in the way of overbearing things, but not inherently only peppy, and loving, and patient, and pick the positive emotion and fill in the blank all of our lives.

I fit to a "T" ADHD and bipolar when I do the "tests" but I don't take anything. I just keep busy, focused, and ornery as hell. And I get online and blab too much and get it all out for a bit.........

..

From: maggiekat7 <ljurkovic@...>Subject: Re: Spironolactone and alcoholhyperaldosteronism Date: Saturday, March 24, 2012, 8:39 PM

I do not have the links to the research, however Spiro increases cortisol levels and elevated cortisol is correlated with many psychiatric issues, such as anxiety and depression. Mental health research has focused on cortisol levels quite a bit. My husband and his colleague J. Dabbs are a couple of the authors of some of that research. They looked at cortisol levels with many different population groups, mostly criminal offenders. They also looked at the same populations and their testosterone levels. Conversly, low levels of cortisol, or adrenal insufficiency is also linked with depression as a symptom. Pub Med has a number of articles from NIMH (National Institutes of Mental Health) on cortisol relating to mental health. They might even have it for aldosterone levels, I haven't looked, but aldo levels, cortisol, and all the related hormones that spiro supresses and elevates have many, many mental health impacts...i would bet. After all, hormones

rule just about everything, don't they?> > > > >> > > > > I have always been a heavy drinker, or alcohol abuser if you prefer. But for the last few years I have been taking 50 mg of Spironolactone a day and I cut back dramatically on the amount I drank – going days even weeks at a time without drinking at all. > > > > > > > >

> > Recently my Doctor took my off Spiro to prepare for AVS. Within a few days, I found myself drawn back to my old practice of daily heavy drinking.> > > > > > > > > > Is it possible that the without the Spiro, I am drinking to self medicate the stress induced by higher Aldosterone levels. Or am I fooling myself with one of those rationalisations addicts become so good at?> > > > > > > > > > On separate but related issue – without the Spiro my BP has obviously gone up – but how high is too high? I am getting numbers like 200/77 and 198/67 - should I be worried?> > > > >> > > >> > >> >>

[Guest guest]

The two medications NIH allows when prepring for AVS are verapamill and

hydralazine. When is your AVS scheduled?

>

> Alan, I would say you should be very worried, both about your liver

> and your blood pressure.  Didn't your doc at least try some other BP

> meds?

> Val----- Original Message -----

> From: hyperaldosteronism

>  

>

> I have always been a heavy drinker, or alcohol abuser if you prefer.

> But for the last few years I have been taking 50 mg of Spironolactone

> a day and I cut back dramatically on the amount I drank going days

> even weeks at a time without drinking at all.

>

> Recently my Doctor took my off Spiro to prepare for AVS. Within a

> few days, I found myself drawn back to my old practice of daily heavy

> drinking.

>

> Is it possible that the without the Spiro, I am drinking to self

> medicate the stress induced by higher Aldosterone levels. Or am I

> fooling myself with one of those rationalisations addicts become so

> good at?

>

> On separate but related issue without the Spiro my BP has obviously

> gone up but how high is too high? I am getting numbers like 200/77 and

> 198/67 - should I be worried?

>

> [1] Switch to: Text-Only [2], Daily Digest [3] • Unsubscribe [4]

> • Terms of Use [5] .

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Thanks as always for the expert information and advice . Some of the more

technical stuff might have been a bit over my over my head but was doubtless of

interest to the other experts. Thanks too for the Baclofen tip – but I have

a history of addiction to benzodiazepines so I am wary of starting on yet

another drug. Just to clarify - even though I have stopped Spiro – I am still

taking 4 other hypertension drugs – listed below. On the subject of DASH my

domestic arrangements make it difficult for me to go on a special diet. It's

safe to assume that I have too much salt in my diet as nearly everyone does.

To comment briefly on own experience with Spiro – I certainly felt much better

when I was on it. Not only better mood but also less anxious and less insomnia

and though I still drank more than was good for me – it felt like I was choosing

to drink rather than " needing a drink " which is how I feel right now.

For the first day or two off Spiro I actually felt better and the seeing the

end of the gynecomastia was a morale boost but by the 4th day I was finding

excuses to drink and have been drinking 25 to 35 units a day since. I don't

think the Doctors anticipated this risk when they took me off Spiro. I am going

to see if I can get the Doctor to call me tomorrow to review this decision. If

they decide to put me back on Spiro it will be interesting to see if makes a

difference to my drinking. I will report when I have more information.

28 10.0 mg Bisoprolol Fumerate tablets (one per day)

84 4.0 mg Doxazosin tablets (Three per day)

28 32.0 mg Candesartan tablets (one per day)

28 200.0 mcg Moxonidine tablets (one per day)

>

> I have always been a heavy drinker, or alcohol abuser if you prefer. But

for the last few years I have been taking 50 mg of Spironolactone a day and I

cut back dramatically on the amount I drank – going days even weeks at a time

without drinking at all.

>

> Recently my Doctor took my off Spiro to prepare for AVS. Within a few days,

I found myself drawn back to my old practice of daily heavy drinking.

>

> Is it possible that the without the Spiro, I am drinking to self medicate the

stress induced by higher Aldosterone levels. Or am I fooling myself with one of

those rationalisations addicts become so good at?

>

> On separate but related issue – without the Spiro my BP has obviously gone up

– but how high is too high? I am getting numbers like 200/77 and 198/67 -

should I be worried?

>

[Guest guest]

Alan, it is not a question of perhaps giving up some salt.  Your life right now depends on it.  Eat no prepared food; only that which you make from scratch without salt - fruit, vegetables, low sodium meat.  Watch out for meat that has been infused with sodium.  Meat should naturally have about 60 - 70 mg sodium..  Perhaps later, you can go to a bit more salt but while your BP is raging in the 200 level, low/no salt may save your life. I assume, that if you'd get your drinking under control, you would be in better shape.  Have you sought out alcoholic treatment?  That is likely an absolutely critical move.Val----- Original Message -----From: hyperaldosteronism

Thanks as always for the expert information and advice . Some of the more technical stuff might have been a bit over my over my head but was doubtless of interest to the other experts. Thanks too for the Baclofen tip but I have a history of addiction to benzodiazepines so I am wary of starting on yet another drug. Just to clarify - even though I have stopped Spiro I am still taking 4 other hypertension drugs listed below. On the subject of DASH my domestic arrangements make it difficult for me to go on a special diet. It's safe to assume that I have too much salt in my diet as nearly everyone does.

To comment briefly on own experience with Spiro I certainly felt much better when I was on it. Not only better mood but also less anxious and less insomnia and though I still drank more than was good for me it felt like I was choosing to drink rather than "needing a drink" which is how I feel right now.

For the first day or two off Spiro I actually felt better and the seeing the end of the gynecomastia was a morale boost but by the 4th day I was finding excuses to drink and have been drinking 25 to 35 units a day since. I don't think the Doctors anticipated this risk when they took me off Spiro. I am going to see if I can get the Doctor to call me tomorrow to review this decision. If they decide to put me back on Spiro it will be interesting to see if makes a difference to my drinking. I will report when I have more information.

28 10.0 mg Bisoprolol Fumerate tablets (one per day)

84 4.0 mg Doxazosin tablets (Three per day)

28 32.0 mg Candesartan tablets (one per day)

28 200.0 mcg Moxonidine tablets (one per day)

>

> I have always been a heavy drinker, or alcohol abuser if you prefer. But for the last few years I have been taking 50 mg of Spironolactone a day and I cut back dramatically on the amount I drank going days even weeks at a time without drinking at all.

>

> Recently my Doctor took my off Spiro to prepare for AVS. Within a few days, I found myself drawn back to my old practice of daily heavy drinking.

>

> Is it possible that the without the Spiro, I am drinking to self medicate the stress induced by higher Aldosterone levels. Or am I fooling myself with one of those rationalisations addicts become so good at?

>

> On separate but related issue without the Spiro my BP has obviously gone up but how high is too high? I am getting numbers like 200/77 and 198/67 - should I be worried?

>

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[Guest guest]

My shrink is convinced that nearly all mental issues have an organic basis.  If the organic issues has not been diagnosed or treated, all he can do is treat the resulting mental problem and try to alleviate the symptoms.Val----- Original Message -----From: hyperaldosteronism

I'll tell you I sure have issues with the psych field in general. To those who follow the classic psych model one would have to believe we are ALL inherently perfect, devoid of sadness, or grief, or shyness, or depression, or anxiety, or worry, or name your diagnosis today.....and we would skip across the planet if it weren't for some hormone being off and then using some "hormone fixer" medicine to replace the happy hormones. Or is too happy a mania and not good either because we have something there  fix that one also? So are we all perfect inside, with no flaws unless our hormones mess up. Is no one is evil unless they have a chemical imbalance and so on?

 

Not sure how psych or the public think we should be. Are we supposed to be zombies without a personality - because what we used to call "character" or personality is now a diagnosis and needs to be treated.

When we were ill, and even still in the process today, going through this horrible medical system were we actually suffering from "anxiety" as a brain disease and mental health diagnosis / dsorder or were we just honestly  anxious in response to an expectable situation(s)? Are we truly diagnosably "depressed" when our K is critically low and putting us there, when the real issue is NOT depression at all?  I think of myself as being anxious, and maybe feeling down at times in a moment when I deserved to feel down, but I wasn't depressed. I wasn't suffering from anxiety disorder and I would not let that label be afixed to me. I am glad I did that, though  that was about the only thing I actually stood my ground on, knowing it was organic and not mental or psych ailing me.

 

I was actually suffering from stupid doctor disorder and misdiagnosis disease.

 

Blows my mind how we can give someone a label like depression when they are falsely and not truly depressed - in truth if the health problem is fixed then they aren't actually mentally depressed. I think this system sucks with the labels and we're endowed by God with personalities - much of which we need to overcome in the way of overbearing things, but not inherently only peppy, and loving, and patient, and pick the positive emotion and fill in the blank all of our lives. 

 

I fit to a "T" ADHD and bipolar when I do the "tests" but I don't take anything. I just keep busy, focused, and ornery as hell. And I get online and blab too much and get it all out for a bit.........

..

--- 

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[Guest guest]

Alcoholism & mental illness run in my family. I got sober (from alcohol &

benzos) 25 years ago & since then my life has changed incredibly. I was full of

fear & resentments; my relationships with others, especially men, were

difficult; & I practically lost my job. It took a while & lots of help &

support from therapists & friends. Today, I can say that I maybe regained

sanity & I am calm, serene & content most of the time; grateful for all my

blessings (despite migraines & fatigue); & happily married for over 12 years. I

am a strong believer in psychotherapy & living sober. They turned my life

around!

Lucy Sage

Please forgive brevity & typos

Sent from my droid

val@... wrote:

>My shrink is convinced that nearly all mental issues have an organic

>basis.  If the organic issues has not been diagnosed or treated, all

>he can do is treat the resulting mental problem and try to alleviate

>the symptoms.

>Val----- Original Message -----

>From: hyperaldosteronism

>

>I'll tell you I sure have issues with the psych field in general. To

>those who follow the classic psych model one would have to believe we

>are ALL inherently perfect, devoid of sadness, or grief, or shyness,

>or depression, or anxiety, or worry, or name your diagnosis

>today.....and we would skip across the planet if it weren't for some

>hormone being off and then using some " hormone fixer " medicine to

>replace the happy hormones. Or is _too_ happy a mania and not good

>either because we have something there  fix that one also? So are we

>all perfect inside, with no flaws unless our hormones mess up. Is no

>one is evil unless they have a chemical imbalance and so on?   Not

>sure how psych or the public think we should be. Are we supposed to be

>zombies without a personality - because what we used to call

> " character " or personality is now a diagnosis and needs to be treated.

>

> When we were ill, and even still in the process today, going

>through this horrible medical system were we actually _suffering_

>from " anxiety " as a brain disease and mental health diagnosis /

>dsorder or were we just honestly  anxious in response to an

>expectable situation(s)? Are we truly diagnosably " depressed " when our

>K is critically low and putting us there, when the real issue is NOT

>depression at all?  I think of myself as being anxious, and maybe

>feeling down at times in a moment when I deserved to feel down, but I

>wasn't depressed. I wasn't suffering from anxiety disorder and I would

>not let that label be afixed to me. I am glad I did that, though

> that was about the only thing I actually stood my ground on, knowing

>it was organic and not mental or psych ailing me.   I was actually

>suffering from stupid doctor disorder and misdiagnosis disease.  

>Blows my mind how we can give someone a label like depression when

>they are falsely and not truly depressed - in truth if the health

>problem is fixed then they aren't actually mentally depressed. I

>think this system sucks with the labels and we're endowed by God with

>personalities - much of which we need to overcome in the way of

>overbearing things, but not inherently only peppy, and loving, and

>patient, and pick the positive emotion and fill in the blank all of

>our lives.    I fit to a " T " ADHD and bipolar when I do the " tests "

>but I don't take anything. I just keep busy, focused, and ornery as

>hell. And I get online and blab too much and get it all out for a

>bit......... .

>--- 

>

> [1] Switch to: Text-Only [2], Daily Digest [3] • Unsubscribe [4]

>• Terms of Use [5] .

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

28 10.0 mg Bisoprolol Fumerate tablets (one per day)

This is a BB which dies not work well in PA

84 4.0 mg Doxazosin tablets (Three per day)

THIS IS not a very good BP MED IN GENERAL

28 32.0 mg Candesartan

tablets (one per day)

this is a ARB which does not work well in PA

28 200.0 mcg Moxonidine tablets (one per day)

DON'T KNOW WHAT THIS IS.

YOU AND YOUR team needs to read my evolution of PA ARTICLE.

[Guest guest]

FYI and theirs hydralazine increase renin and aldo levels. Some old data from Grim et al May your pressure be low!CE Grim MS, MDSpecializing in DifficultHypertensionOn Mar 25, 2012, at 4:55, <jclark24p@...> wrote:

The two medications NIH allows when prepring for AVS are verapamill and hydralazine. When is your AVS scheduled?

>

> Alan, I would say you should be very worried, both about your liver

> and your blood pressure. Â Didn't your doc at least try some other BP

> meds?

> Val----- Original Message -----

> From: hyperaldosteronism

> Â

>

> I have always been a heavy drinker, or alcohol abuser if you prefer.

> But for the last few years I have been taking 50 mg of Spironolactone

> a day and I cut back dramatically on the amount I drank going days

> even weeks at a time without drinking at all.

>

> Recently my Doctor took my off Spiro to prepare for AVS. Within a

> few days, I found myself drawn back to my old practice of daily heavy

> drinking.

>

> Is it possible that the without the Spiro, I am drinking to self

> medicate the stress induced by higher Aldosterone levels. Or am I

> fooling myself with one of those rationalisations addicts become so

> good at?

>

> On separate but related issue without the Spiro my BP has obviously

> gone up but how high is too high? I am getting numbers like 200/77 and

> 198/67 - should I be worried?

>

> [1] Switch to: Text-Only [2], Daily Digest [3] • Unsubscribe [4]

> • Terms of Use [5] .

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

No certain how much a unit is but more that 2 glasses of beer or wine a day or two shots of hard liquor a day will increase BP IN MANY. Only way to tell is to tell is to try and stop and see what happens. May your pressure be low!CE Grim MS, MDSpecializing in DifficultHypertensionOn Mar 25, 2012, at 9:24, val@... wrote:

Alan, it is not a question of perhaps giving up some salt. Your life right now depends on it. Eat no prepared food; only that which you make from scratch without salt - fruit, vegetables, low sodium meat. Watch out for meat that has been infused with sodium. Meat should naturally have about 60 - 70 mg sodium.. Perhaps later, you can go to a bit more salt but while your BP is raging in the 200 level, low/no salt may save your life. I assume, that if you'd get your drinking under control, you would be in better shape. Have you sought out alcoholic treatment? That is likely an absolutely critical move.Val----- Original Message -----From: hyperaldosteronism

Thanks as always for the expert information and advice . Some of the more technical stuff might have been a bit over my over my head but was doubtless of interest to the other experts. Thanks too for the Baclofen tip but I have a history of addiction to benzodiazepines so I am wary of starting on yet another drug. Just to clarify - even though I have stopped Spiro I am still taking 4 other hypertension drugs listed below. On the subject of DASH my domestic arrangements make it difficult for me to go on a special diet. It's safe to assume that I have too much salt in my diet as nearly everyone does.

To comment briefly on own experience with Spiro I certainly felt much better when I was on it. Not only better mood but also less anxious and less insomnia and though I still drank more than was good for me it felt like I was choosing to drink rather than "needing a drink" which is how I feel right now.

For the first day or two off Spiro I actually felt better and the seeing the end of the gynecomastia was a morale boost but by the 4th day I was finding excuses to drink and have been drinking 25 to 35 units a day since. I don't think the Doctors anticipated this risk when they took me off Spiro. I am going to see if I can get the Doctor to call me tomorrow to review this decision. If they decide to put me back on Spiro it will be interesting to see if makes a difference to my drinking. I will report when I have more information.

28 10.0 mg Bisoprolol Fumerate tablets (one per day)

84 4.0 mg Doxazosin tablets (Three per day)

28 32.0 mg Candesartan tablets (one per day)

28 200.0 mcg Moxonidine tablets (one per day)

>

> I have always been a heavy drinker, or alcohol abuser if you prefer. But for the last few years I have been taking 50 mg of Spironolactone a day and I cut back dramatically on the amount I drank going days even weeks at a time without drinking at all.

>

> Recently my Doctor took my off Spiro to prepare for AVS. Within a few days, I found myself drawn back to my old practice of daily heavy drinking.

>

> Is it possible that the without the Spiro, I am drinking to self medicate the stress induced by higher Aldosterone levels. Or am I fooling myself with one of those rationalisations addicts become so good at?

>

> On separate but related issue without the Spiro my BP has obviously gone up but how high is too high? I am getting numbers like 200/77 and 198/67 - should I be worried?

>

Switch to: Text-Only, Daily Digest • Unsubscribe • Terms of Use

.

[Guest guest]

Every disease is due to altered chemistry. May your pressure be low!CE Grim MS, MDSpecializing in DifficultHypertensionOn Mar 25, 2012, at 11:42, val@... wrote:

My shrink is convinced that nearly all mental issues have an organic basis. If the organic issues has not been diagnosed or treated, all he can do is treat the resulting mental problem and try to alleviate the symptoms.Val----- Original Message -----From: hyperaldosteronism

I'll tell you I sure have issues with the psych field in general. To those who follow the classic psych model one would have to believe we are ALL inherently perfect, devoid of sadness, or grief, or shyness, or depression, or anxiety, or worry, or name your diagnosis today.....and we would skip across the planet if it weren't for some hormone being off and then using some "hormone fixer" medicine to replace the happy hormones. Or is too happy a mania and not good either because we have something there fix that one also? So are we all perfect inside, with no flaws unless our hormones mess up. Is no one is evil unless they have a chemical imbalance and so on?

Not sure how psych or the public think we should be. Are we supposed to be zombies without a personality - because what we used to call "character" or personality is now a diagnosis and needs to be treated.

When we were ill, and even still in the process today, going through this horrible medical system were we actually suffering from "anxiety" as a brain disease and mental health diagnosis / dsorder or were we just honestly anxious in response to an expectable situation(s)? Are we truly diagnosably "depressed" when our K is critically low and putting us there, when the real issue is NOT depression at all? I think of myself as being anxious, and maybe feeling down at times in a moment when I deserved to feel down, but I wasn't depressed. I wasn't suffering from anxiety disorder and I would not let that label be afixed to me. I am glad I did that, though that was about the only thing I actually stood my ground on, knowing it was organic and not mental or psych ailing me.

I was actually suffering from stupid doctor disorder and misdiagnosis disease.

Blows my mind how we can give someone a label like depression when they are falsely and not truly depressed - in truth if the health problem is fixed then they aren't actually mentally depressed. I think this system sucks with the labels and we're endowed by God with personalities - much of which we need to overcome in the way of overbearing things, but not inherently only peppy, and loving, and patient, and pick the positive emotion and fill in the blank all of our lives.

I fit to a "T" ADHD and bipolar when I do the "tests" but I don't take anything. I just keep busy, focused, and ornery as hell. And I get online and blab too much and get it all out for a bit.........

..

---

Switch to: Text-Only, Daily Digest • Unsubscribe • Terms of Use

.