Re: Better Diagnosis, My Arse

[Guest guest]

Quite likely, something about "stole a pig and away he run".

Re: Better Diagnosis, My Arse

does not say that the data implicates thimerosal as the cause ofautism, what he states is there "are the studies which, when takentogether, suggest a plausible biological mechanism for mercuryexposure as a contributing factor to regressive autism."It seems that junk science is in the eye of the beholder. It willprobably take an impartial jury in a court of law to substantiallysettle if there is enough evidence of harm to implicate thimerosalandor vaccines in autism. Bye the way, my name is Lenny Schafer. 's name is Kirby.What is your full name, Tom? Lenny> >> > Dear Tom> > > > This is a very interesting statement:> > > > "The many studies> > published since the IOM report fail to implicate thimerosal. The> > studies that have appeared in the literature since 2004 are of poor> > quality and/or authored by scientists with conflicts of interests,> > histories of plagiarism, outright negligence, and dishonesty."> > > > Please provide me with the evidence of these allegations, in > regards to> > the following researchers: Deth, Northeastern U; Martha> > Herbert, Harvard U; Jill , Univ of Arkansas; Burbacher, > Univ> > of Washington; Vargas, s Hopkins; Isaac Pessah, UC ;> > Mady Hornig, Columbia U; Mark Noble, Univ of Rochester.> > > > These are the studies which, when taken together, suggest a > plausible> > biological mechanism for mercury exposure as a contributing factor > to> > regressive autism.> > > > I will gladly question these people point blank about your > allegations> > and publish their responses in the Huffington Post.> > > > I cannot imagine that any of these researchers conducted studies of> > "poor quality," as you say, given the rigorous peer review system to> > which they were subjected (by some of the most respected journals > in the> > field). > > > > Any specific information you have on the integrity of these > researchers> > and their studies should be shared with the public immediately.> > > > Many thanks> > > > Kirby> >>

[Guest guest]

It is really almost laughable how these doctors anoint themselves as

experts since they have access to autism data and go over it with a

fine tooth comb. These doctors aren't living it, seeing it, daily

like the parents. My wife has been on the Illinois autism tasks

force for the last 5 years. Her and her team are requested by

public schools in the central Illinois area to train teachers on how

to teach these kids and setup appropriate learning environments.

This is because the teachers don't have clue on how to teach autism

because they have never seen it prior to 10 years ago.

My son is 13 years old and attends a school specifically for kids

with autism. The school doesn't teach teach beyond 14 years old

(around the 8th grade) but they are trying to get funding to so they

can teach high school aged kids. This is due to the kids getting

older and they have no place to go to provide the education they

need. Some friends of ours have a 17 year old severely autistic boy

that went to the same school as my son but now he is back in the

regular public school system (high school) and the teachers were

scared to death. They had no idea on how to deal with this. They

had never seen autism before.

The next step will be building new group homes for autistic adults

so they will have a place to live when the parents start passing

on. Better diagnosis, sure…that's it.

> >

> > Hey, didn't you guys hear that well dressed professional man on

> 60

> > minutes tell the world there is no autism epidemic? Isn't it

just

> > better and a broader diagnosis? What's wrong with us? We're

> supposed

> > to believe him. He looked sincere. He sounded like he was

> sincere.

> > My 21 yo daughter said he sounded like a used car salesman.

> >

> > Harry H.

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Tom

Go back to the literature, stud... To add to the voices of the

other fine folks here, Jill shows that impaired methylation

and sulfation correlate with " autism " . When children have very low

levels of cysteine, methionine and glutathione, they cannot excrete

Hg at proper levels. Also, you need to read the recent work of

Nataf.

By the way, as you know, my name is Hooker or as you

referred to me B.S. Hooker. I have my Ph.D. in Biochemical

Engineering and part of my studies include work on Rhodopseudomonas

palustris, a microorganism that makes the purple protein you are so

fond of.

To discuss the work of these disreputable researchers after the 2004

IOM ISR Committee fraudulent report, perhaps you could call me at

(509) 366-2269.

What is your full name, Tom? and from what lofty scientific

position do you offer your unsubstantiated claims?

B

> > >

> > > Dear Tom

> > >

> > > This is a very interesting statement:

> > >

> > > " The many studies

> > > published since the IOM report fail to implicate thimerosal.

The

> > > studies that have appeared in the literature since 2004 are of

poor

> > > quality and/or authored by scientists with conflicts of

interests,

> > > histories of plagiarism, outright negligence, and dishonesty. "

> > >

> > > Please provide me with the evidence of these allegations, in

> > regards to

> > > the following researchers: Deth, Northeastern U;

Martha

> > > Herbert, Harvard U; Jill , Univ of Arkansas;

Burbacher,

> > Univ

> > > of Washington; Vargas, s Hopkins; Isaac Pessah, UC

;

> > > Mady Hornig, Columbia U; Mark Noble, Univ of Rochester.

> > >

> > > These are the studies which, when taken together, suggest a

> > plausible

> > > biological mechanism for mercury exposure as a contributing

factor

> > to

> > > regressive autism.

> > >

> > > I will gladly question these people point blank about your

> > allegations

> > > and publish their responses in the Huffington Post.

> > >

> > > I cannot imagine that any of these researchers conducted

studies of

> > > " poor quality, " as you say, given the rigorous peer review

system to

> > > which they were subjected (by some of the most respected

journals

> > in the

> > > field).

> > >

> > > Any specific information you have on the integrity of these

> > researchers

> > > and their studies should be shared with the public immediately.

> > >

> > > Many thanks

> > >

> > > Kirby

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

I've been reading in some lists that someone is using multiple aliases all named

after

proteins... is " tom " really this guy's first name? Someone else was suspecting

the " Diva " as

being this multiple-protein personality.

> > > >

> > > > Dear Tom

> > > >

> > > > This is a very interesting statement:

> > > >

> > > > " The many studies

> > > > published since the IOM report fail to implicate thimerosal.

> The

> > > > studies that have appeared in the literature since 2004 are of

> poor

> > > > quality and/or authored by scientists with conflicts of

> interests,

> > > > histories of plagiarism, outright negligence, and dishonesty. "

> > > >

> > > > Please provide me with the evidence of these allegations, in

> > > regards to

> > > > the following researchers: Deth, Northeastern U;

> Martha

> > > > Herbert, Harvard U; Jill , Univ of Arkansas;

> Burbacher,

> > > Univ

> > > > of Washington; Vargas, s Hopkins; Isaac Pessah, UC

> ;

> > > > Mady Hornig, Columbia U; Mark Noble, Univ of Rochester.

> > > >

> > > > These are the studies which, when taken together, suggest a

> > > plausible

> > > > biological mechanism for mercury exposure as a contributing

> factor

> > > to

> > > > regressive autism.

> > > >

> > > > I will gladly question these people point blank about your

> > > allegations

> > > > and publish their responses in the Huffington Post.

> > > >

> > > > I cannot imagine that any of these researchers conducted

> studies of

> > > > " poor quality, " as you say, given the rigorous peer review

> system to

> > > > which they were subjected (by some of the most respected

> journals

> > > in the

> > > > field).

> > > >

> > > > Any specific information you have on the integrity of these

> > > researchers

> > > > and their studies should be shared with the public immediately.

> > > >

> > > > Many thanks

> > > >

> > > > Kirby

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

If we are to assume that thimerosal is indeed THE

triggering factor for a significant portion of autism

then we should not be seeing an increase in cases

under the age of 5 as the phaseout on thimerosal in

pediatric vaccines began in 2001.

Yes I know many tainted lots remained on the shelves

until as lat as 2004, but many more progressive

pediatricians and clinic directors began using

thimerosal-free or at least greatly reduced

formulations as soon as they were available, if for no

other reason than to gain great cooperative compliance

from worried parents who (with good reason) feared

thimerosal injected into their babies.

Saying that adding a flu shot to the schedule would

replace the thimerosal found in 5 DTPs, 3 IPVs, 3HiBs

and 3 Hep Bs is just wrong. At worst, adding the flu

shot (even considering 2 recommended each year) should

have taken incidence of autism back to pre-mid 80's

levels, not allowed the increase to continue.

And most of the Hep B's given to infants are now

thimerosal free.

So we have a few options:

Thimersoal is NOT the culprit (that does not mean that

vaccines are off the hook, just thimerosal).

Mercury is still suspect, but it is not just

thimerosal, it is from all sources (supported by the

TX Study involving power plants and investigation into

PA Amish as reported by Olmstead where the only

autistic Amish were either vaccinated or lived

immediately downwind from power plants).

Thimerosal is still in vaccines, just not labled as

such. This would be possible if the label said

" preservative-free " but thimerosal was added during

manufacturing as a " fixing agent " and left in as

opposed to being added as a preservative after te

batch was done. It could also be a flat out lie by

the makers which was left unchecked by regulators.

My gut feeling is that it truly is still too soon to

see a significant decrease from thimerosal removal

(assuming it truly was). I think there were far more

tainted lots in production or shipped than the Feds

will acknowledge. I also agree that mercury in all

forms contributes to our common problem, as well as

other toxins both chemical and viral which work in

synergistic fashion or else " capitalize " on the damage

to the immune system that mercury causes.

Re: Better Diagnosis, My Arse

Posted by: " Herman Fudenberg " nitrf@...

Wed Feb 21, 2007 11:56 am (PST)

IT APPEARS THAT THe INCIDENCDE of AUTISM INCREASED

SIGNICANTLY IN 2005 and 2006. Hep, B VACCINE,

MANDATORY FOR THE NEWBORN IN THE FIRSt 24 HOURS of

LIFE , AND RICH IN THIMERSOL, IS PROBABLY RESPONSIBLE,

AND MANY INFANTS RE RECEIVED A FLU VACCINE CONTAINING

THIMERSLOLH. H.Fudenberg, M.D.,DDG.IOM Inman, SC 29349

(864) 592 8076 Website nitrf.org

Re: Better Diagnosis, My Arse

Posted by: " Debi " fightingautism@...

fightingautism

Wed Feb 21, 2007 12:34 pm (PST)

Those increases in 2005-06 can, in my op, be directly

correlated with

the mandated flu vaccines. The year those started,

what, around 2003?,

would be turning the age of dx.

Debi

________________________________________________________________________________\

____

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Get more visitors on your site using Search Marketing.

http://searchmarketing./arp/sponsoredsearch_v2.php

[Guest guest]

The real decreases in the Denmark cohort weren't seen until 8 years

after the withdrawal of thimerosal in vaccines. In addition, they

did not have the confound of the flu vaccine adding thimerosal

exposure back in.

That being said, ecological data like those from CA have very

limited power. People don't live in a vacuum and autism is indeed a

multi-faceted disorder with multiple routes of environmental

insult. That is why a good biomedical run-up needs to be done for

each of these children. The key is find out why your own kids is

sick. These general discussions have limited value at that level.

>

> If we are to assume that thimerosal is indeed THE

> triggering factor for a significant portion of autism

> then we should not be seeing an increase in cases

> under the age of 5 as the phaseout on thimerosal in

> pediatric vaccines began in 2001.

>

> Yes I know many tainted lots remained on the shelves

> until as lat as 2004, but many more progressive

> pediatricians and clinic directors began using

> thimerosal-free or at least greatly reduced

> formulations as soon as they were available, if for no

> other reason than to gain great cooperative compliance

> from worried parents who (with good reason) feared

> thimerosal injected into their babies.

>

> Saying that adding a flu shot to the schedule would

> replace the thimerosal found in 5 DTPs, 3 IPVs, 3HiBs

> and 3 Hep Bs is just wrong. At worst, adding the flu

> shot (even considering 2 recommended each year) should

> have taken incidence of autism back to pre-mid 80's

> levels, not allowed the increase to continue.

>

> And most of the Hep B's given to infants are now

> thimerosal free.

>

> So we have a few options:

>

> Thimersoal is NOT the culprit (that does not mean that

> vaccines are off the hook, just thimerosal).

>

> Mercury is still suspect, but it is not just

> thimerosal, it is from all sources (supported by the

> TX Study involving power plants and investigation into

> PA Amish as reported by Olmstead where the only

> autistic Amish were either vaccinated or lived

> immediately downwind from power plants).

>

> Thimerosal is still in vaccines, just not labled as

> such. This would be possible if the label said

> " preservative-free " but thimerosal was added during

> manufacturing as a " fixing agent " and left in as

> opposed to being added as a preservative after te

> batch was done. It could also be a flat out lie by

> the makers which was left unchecked by regulators.

>

> My gut feeling is that it truly is still too soon to

> see a significant decrease from thimerosal removal

> (assuming it truly was). I think there were far more

> tainted lots in production or shipped than the Feds

> will acknowledge. I also agree that mercury in all

> forms contributes to our common problem, as well as

> other toxins both chemical and viral which work in

> synergistic fashion or else " capitalize " on the damage

> to the immune system that mercury causes.

>

>

> Re: Better Diagnosis, My Arse

> Posted by: " Herman Fudenberg " nitrf@...

> Wed Feb 21, 2007 11:56 am (PST)

>

> IT APPEARS THAT THe INCIDENCDE of AUTISM INCREASED

> SIGNICANTLY IN 2005 and 2006. Hep, B VACCINE,

> MANDATORY FOR THE NEWBORN IN THE FIRSt 24 HOURS of

> LIFE , AND RICH IN THIMERSOL, IS PROBABLY RESPONSIBLE,

> AND MANY INFANTS RE RECEIVED A FLU VACCINE CONTAINING

> THIMERSLOLH. H.Fudenberg, M.D.,DDG.IOM Inman, SC 29349

> (864) 592 8076 Website nitrf.org

>

>

>

> Re: Better Diagnosis, My Arse

> Posted by: " Debi " fightingautism@...

> fightingautism

> Wed Feb 21, 2007 12:34 pm (PST)

> Those increases in 2005-06 can, in my op, be directly

> correlated with

> the mandated flu vaccines. The year those started,

> what, around 2003?,

> would be turning the age of dx.

>

> Debi

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

_____________________________________________________________________

_______________

> The fish are biting.

> Get more visitors on your site using Search Marketing.

> http://searchmarketing./arp/sponsoredsearch_v2.php

>

[Guest guest]

I thought I had read recently that the majority of the more recent

autism dx's were of a milder form like PDD-NOS for the kids under

5. This could have been isolated to a study of New Jersey alone,

but not sure. However, would this help explain the fact that there

are still a lot of children being diagnosed under age 5, yet to a

more milder form of the disorder. I know that my son, now 4,

recieved a Flu shot and MMR the same day when he turned 1 year old.

All of his progress at that point pretty much came to a grinding

halt... I also have a 1 year old daugher whom our local hospital

tried to give her a HepB vaccine when she was born that still

contained traces of thimerosal... She didn't get it, needless to

say.

Steve

>

> If we are to assume that thimerosal is indeed THE

> triggering factor for a significant portion of autism

> then we should not be seeing an increase in cases

> under the age of 5 as the phaseout on thimerosal in

> pediatric vaccines began in 2001.

>

> Yes I know many tainted lots remained on the shelves

> until as lat as 2004, but many more progressive

> pediatricians and clinic directors began using

> thimerosal-free or at least greatly reduced

> formulations as soon as they were available, if for no

> other reason than to gain great cooperative compliance

> from worried parents who (with good reason) feared

> thimerosal injected into their babies.

>

> Saying that adding a flu shot to the schedule would

> replace the thimerosal found in 5 DTPs, 3 IPVs, 3HiBs

> and 3 Hep Bs is just wrong. At worst, adding the flu

> shot (even considering 2 recommended each year) should

> have taken incidence of autism back to pre-mid 80's

> levels, not allowed the increase to continue.

>

> And most of the Hep B's given to infants are now

> thimerosal free.

>

> So we have a few options:

>

> Thimersoal is NOT the culprit (that does not mean that

> vaccines are off the hook, just thimerosal).

>

> Mercury is still suspect, but it is not just

> thimerosal, it is from all sources (supported by the

> TX Study involving power plants and investigation into

> PA Amish as reported by Olmstead where the only

> autistic Amish were either vaccinated or lived

> immediately downwind from power plants).

>

> Thimerosal is still in vaccines, just not labled as

> such. This would be possible if the label said

> " preservative-free " but thimerosal was added during

> manufacturing as a " fixing agent " and left in as

> opposed to being added as a preservative after te

> batch was done. It could also be a flat out lie by

> the makers which was left unchecked by regulators.

>

> My gut feeling is that it truly is still too soon to

> see a significant decrease from thimerosal removal

> (assuming it truly was). I think there were far more

> tainted lots in production or shipped than the Feds

> will acknowledge. I also agree that mercury in all

> forms contributes to our common problem, as well as

> other toxins both chemical and viral which work in

> synergistic fashion or else " capitalize " on the damage

> to the immune system that mercury causes.

>

>

> Re: Better Diagnosis, My Arse

> Posted by: " Herman Fudenberg " nitrf@...

> Wed Feb 21, 2007 11:56 am (PST)

>

> IT APPEARS THAT THe INCIDENCDE of AUTISM INCREASED

> SIGNICANTLY IN 2005 and 2006. Hep, B VACCINE,

> MANDATORY FOR THE NEWBORN IN THE FIRSt 24 HOURS of

> LIFE , AND RICH IN THIMERSOL, IS PROBABLY RESPONSIBLE,

> AND MANY INFANTS RE RECEIVED A FLU VACCINE CONTAINING

> THIMERSLOLH. H.Fudenberg, M.D.,DDG.IOM Inman, SC 29349

> (864) 592 8076 Website nitrf.org

>

>

>

> Re: Better Diagnosis, My Arse

> Posted by: " Debi " fightingautism@...

> fightingautism

> Wed Feb 21, 2007 12:34 pm (PST)

> Those increases in 2005-06 can, in my op, be directly

> correlated with

> the mandated flu vaccines. The year those started,

> what, around 2003?,

> would be turning the age of dx.

>

> Debi

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

_____________________________________________________________________

_______________

> The fish are biting.

> Get more visitors on your site using Search Marketing.

> http://searchmarketing./arp/sponsoredsearch_v2.php

>

[Guest guest]

Even the CDC admits that the regressive form of autism is the most

common.

Is anyone looking for the " genes " that kick on at 18 months?

Carolyn

> > >

> > > Dear Tom

> > >

> > > This is a very interesting statement:

> > >

> > > " The many studies

> > > published since the IOM report fail to implicate thimerosal.

The

> > > studies that have appeared in the literature since 2004 are

of poor

> > > quality and/or authored by scientists with conflicts of

interests,

> > > histories of plagiarism, outright negligence, and dishonesty. "

> > >

> > > Please provide me with the evidence of these allegations, in

> > regards to

> > > the following researchers: Deth, Northeastern U;

Martha

> > > Herbert, Harvard U; Jill , Univ of Arkansas;

Burbacher,

> > Univ

> > > of Washington; Vargas, s Hopkins; Isaac Pessah, UC

;

> > > Mady Hornig, Columbia U; Mark Noble, Univ of Rochester.

> > >

> > > These are the studies which, when taken together, suggest a

> > plausible

> > > biological mechanism for mercury exposure as a contributing

factor

> > to

> > > regressive autism.

> > >

> > > I will gladly question these people point blank about your

> > allegations

> > > and publish their responses in the Huffington Post.

> > >

> > > I cannot imagine that any of these researchers conducted

studies of

> > > " poor quality, " as you say, given the rigorous peer review

system to

> > > which they were subjected (by some of the most respected

journals

> > in the

> > > field).

> > >

> > > Any specific information you have on the integrity of these

> > researchers

> > > and their studies should be shared with the public

immediately.

> > >

> > > Many thanks

> > >

> > > Kirby

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Actually, the EPA has asked hospitals to " virtually eliminate "

mercury-containing waste. So, hospitals are replacing those medical

devices.

Strangely, the injectables keep coming in,

Carolyn

>

> Hey, Tom...

>

> I'm still waiting for the toxicity data that shows thimerosal is

safe to put

> into any medical device, let alone an injectable.

>

> Come on. Can't you do better than to attack the Geiers? That's

pathetic,

> and weak.

>

>

> Harry H.

> <BR><BR><BR>**************************************<BR> AOL now

offers free

> email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at

> http://www.aol.com.

>

[Guest guest]

Some researchers have stated that it's still in there. I think Boyd

Haley is one who said it's in the processing, then attempted to be

filtered but it's already bonded to the proteins. And, don't forget,

many consider autism " metal " poisoning. All these vaccines never lost

their aluminum. And, autism rates did drop around 2003-2005 or

something like that. A speech path that has a 0-3 clinic told me what

she's seeing is less autism, but a ton more of barely off spectrum. If

these parents get the 5 yr boosters, then that's plenty to push them

right over the edge.

I'm also getting a lot of inquiries from our local ASA group from

families describing a somewhat verbal child with autism. Before it was

a lot more nonverbal.

Debi

>

> If we are to assume that thimerosal is indeed THE

> triggering factor for a significant portion of autism

> then we should not be seeing an increase in cases

> under the age of 5 as the phaseout on thimerosal in

> pediatric vaccines began in 2001.

>

> Yes I know many tainted lots remained on the shelves

> until as lat as 2004, but many more progressive

> pediatricians and clinic directors began using

> thimerosal-free or at least greatly reduced

> formulations as soon as they were available, if for no

> other reason than to gain great cooperative compliance

> from worried parents who (with good reason) feared

> thimerosal injected into their babies.

>

> Saying that adding a flu shot to the schedule would

> replace the thimerosal found in 5 DTPs, 3 IPVs, 3HiBs

> and 3 Hep Bs is just wrong. At worst, adding the flu

> shot (even considering 2 recommended each year) should

> have taken incidence of autism back to pre-mid 80's

> levels, not allowed the increase to continue.

>

> And most of the Hep B's given to infants are now

> thimerosal free.

>

> So we have a few options:

>

> Thimersoal is NOT the culprit (that does not mean that

> vaccines are off the hook, just thimerosal).

>

> Mercury is still suspect, but it is not just

> thimerosal, it is from all sources (supported by the

> TX Study involving power plants and investigation into

> PA Amish as reported by Olmstead where the only

> autistic Amish were either vaccinated or lived

> immediately downwind from power plants).

>

> Thimerosal is still in vaccines, just not labled as

> such. This would be possible if the label said

> " preservative-free " but thimerosal was added during

> manufacturing as a " fixing agent " and left in as

> opposed to being added as a preservative after te

> batch was done. It could also be a flat out lie by

> the makers which was left unchecked by regulators.

>

> My gut feeling is that it truly is still too soon to

> see a significant decrease from thimerosal removal

> (assuming it truly was). I think there were far more

> tainted lots in production or shipped than the Feds

> will acknowledge. I also agree that mercury in all

> forms contributes to our common problem, as well as

> other toxins both chemical and viral which work in

> synergistic fashion or else " capitalize " on the damage

> to the immune system that mercury causes.

>

>

> Re: Better Diagnosis, My Arse

> Posted by: " Herman Fudenberg " nitrf@...

> Wed Feb 21, 2007 11:56 am (PST)

>

> IT APPEARS THAT THe INCIDENCDE of AUTISM INCREASED

> SIGNICANTLY IN 2005 and 2006. Hep, B VACCINE,

> MANDATORY FOR THE NEWBORN IN THE FIRSt 24 HOURS of

> LIFE , AND RICH IN THIMERSOL, IS PROBABLY RESPONSIBLE,

> AND MANY INFANTS RE RECEIVED A FLU VACCINE CONTAINING

> THIMERSLOLH. H.Fudenberg, M.D.,DDG.IOM Inman, SC 29349

> (864) 592 8076 Website nitrf.org

>

>

>

> Re: Better Diagnosis, My Arse

> Posted by: " Debi " fightingautism@...

> fightingautism

> Wed Feb 21, 2007 12:34 pm (PST)

> Those increases in 2005-06 can, in my op, be directly

> correlated with

> the mandated flu vaccines. The year those started,

> what, around 2003?,

> would be turning the age of dx.

>

> Debi

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

________________________________________________________________________________\

____

> The fish are biting.

> Get more visitors on your site using Search Marketing.

> http://searchmarketing./arp/sponsoredsearch_v2.php

>

[Guest guest]

That information would seem to reflect a toxicological profile consistent with lower dose mercury.

Re: Better Diagnosis, My Arse

Some researchers have stated that it's still in there. I think BoydHaley is one who said it's in the processing, then attempted to befiltered but it's already bonded to the proteins. And, don't forget,many consider autism "metal" poisoning. All these vaccines never losttheir aluminum. And, autism rates did drop around 2003-2005 orsomething like that. A speech path that has a 0-3 clinic told me whatshe's seeing is less autism, but a ton more of barely off spectrum. Ifthese parents get the 5 yr boosters, then that's plenty to push themright over the edge. I'm also getting a lot of inquiries from our local ASA group fromfamilies describing a somewhat verbal child with autism. Before it wasa lot more nonverbal.Debi>> If we are to assume that thimerosal is indeed THE> triggering factor for a significant portion of autism> then we should not be seeing an increase in cases> under the age of 5 as the phaseout on thimerosal in> pediatric vaccines began in 2001.> > Yes I know many tainted lots remained on the shelves> until as lat as 2004, but many more progressive> pediatricians and clinic directors began using> thimerosal-free or at least greatly reduced> formulations as soon as they were available, if for no> other reason than to gain great cooperative compliance> from worried parents who (with good reason) feared> thimerosal injected into their babies.> > Saying that adding a flu shot to the schedule would> replace the thimerosal found in 5 DTPs, 3 IPVs, 3HiBs> and 3 Hep Bs is just wrong. At worst, adding the flu> shot (even considering 2 recommended each year) should> have taken incidence of autism back to pre-mid 80's> levels, not allowed the increase to continue. > > And most of the Hep B's given to infants are now> thimerosal free.> > So we have a few options:> > Thimersoal is NOT the culprit (that does not mean that> vaccines are off the hook, just thimerosal).> > Mercury is still suspect, but it is not just> thimerosal, it is from all sources (supported by the> TX Study involving power plants and investigation into> PA Amish as reported by Olmstead where the only> autistic Amish were either vaccinated or lived> immediately downwind from power plants). > > Thimerosal is still in vaccines, just not labled as> such. This would be possible if the label said> "preservative-free" but thimerosal was added during> manufacturing as a "fixing agent" and left in as> opposed to being added as a preservative after te> batch was done. It could also be a flat out lie by> the makers which was left unchecked by regulators.> > My gut feeling is that it truly is still too soon to> see a significant decrease from thimerosal removal> (assuming it truly was). I think there were far more> tainted lots in production or shipped than the Feds> will acknowledge. I also agree that mercury in all> forms contributes to our common problem, as well as> other toxins both chemical and viral which work in> synergistic fashion or else "capitalize" on the damage> to the immune system that mercury causes.> > > Re: Better Diagnosis, My Arse > Posted by: "Herman Fudenberg" nitrf@... > Wed Feb 21, 2007 11:56 am (PST) > > IT APPEARS THAT THe INCIDENCDE of AUTISM INCREASED> SIGNICANTLY IN 2005 and 2006. Hep, B VACCINE,> MANDATORY FOR THE NEWBORN IN THE FIRSt 24 HOURS of> LIFE , AND RICH IN THIMERSOL, IS PROBABLY RESPONSIBLE,> AND MANY INFANTS RE RECEIVED A FLU VACCINE CONTAINING> THIMERSLOLH. H.Fudenberg, M.D.,DDG.IOM Inman, SC 29349> (864) 592 8076 Website nitrf.org > > > > Re: Better Diagnosis, My Arse > Posted by: "Debi" fightingautism@... > fightingautism > Wed Feb 21, 2007 12:34 pm (PST) > Those increases in 2005-06 can, in my op, be directly> correlated with> the mandated flu vaccines. The year those started,> what, around 2003?,> would be turning the age of dx.> > Debi> > > > > > >__________________________________________________________> The fish are biting. > Get more visitors on your site using Search Marketing.> http://searchmarketing./arp/sponsoredsearch_v2.php>

[Guest guest]

I had heard Dr. Haley say before that the only

thimerosal removed from the pediatric vaccines was the

typing on the label. Seems this is something that

could be easily tested.

Can someone here with a little better science

background describe the process and chemical needed to

test the mercury content of a liquid?

Re: Better Diagnosis, My Arse

Posted by: " Debi " fightingautism@...

fightingautism

Thu Feb 22, 2007 10:22 am (PST)

Some researchers have stated that it's still in there.

I think Boyd

Haley is one who said it's in the processing, then

attempted to be

filtered but it's already bonded to the proteins. And,

don't forget,

many consider autism " metal " poisoning. All these

vaccines never lost

their aluminum. And, autism rates did drop around

2003-2005 or

something like that. A speech path that has a 0-3

clinic told me what

she's seeing is less autism, but a ton more of barely

off spectrum. If

these parents get the 5 yr boosters, then that's

plenty to push them

right over the edge.

I'm also getting a lot of inquiries from our local ASA

group from

families describing a somewhat verbal child with

autism. Before it was

a lot more nonverbal.

Debi

________________________________________________________________________________\

____

Cheap talk?

Check out Messenger's low PC-to-Phone call rates.

http://voice.

[Guest guest]

I can't describe the chemical process of testing, but I can tell you

the social process. Get a doc willing to send a vial to Doctor's Data

for testing & you'll have results.

Debi

>

> I had heard Dr. Haley say before that the only

> thimerosal removed from the pediatric vaccines was the

> typing on the label. Seems this is something that

> could be easily tested.

>

> Can someone here with a little better science

> background describe the process and chemical needed to

> test the mercury content of a liquid?

>

[Guest guest]

Do you think it is Tom Verstraeten?

hahahahahahahahahahaha!

From: " Nanstiel" <erik@...>Reply-EOHarm To: EOHarm Subject: Re: Better Diagnosis, My ArseDate: Thu, 22 Feb 2007 15:00:49 -0000

I've been reading in some lists that someone is using multiple aliases all named after proteins... is "tom" really this guy's first name? Someone else was suspecting the "Diva" as being this multiple-protein personality.> > > >> > > > Dear Tom> > > > > > > > This is a very interesting statement:> > > > > > > > "The many studies> > > > published since the IOM report fail to implicate thimerosal. > The> > > > studies that have appeared in the literature since 2004 are of > poor> > > > quality and/or authored by scientists with conflicts of > interests,> > > > histories of plagiarism, outright negligence, and dishonesty."> > > > > > > > Please provide me with the evidence of these allegations, in > > > regards to> > > > the following researchers: Deth, Northeastern U; > Martha> > > > Herbert, Harvard U; Jill , Univ of Arkansas; > Burbacher, > > > Univ> > > > of Washington; Vargas, s Hopkins; Isaac Pessah, UC > ;> > > > Mady Hornig, Columbia U; Mark Noble, Univ of Rochester.> > > > > > > > These are the studies which, when taken together, suggest a > > > plausible> > > > biological mechanism for mercury exposure as a contributing > factor > > > to> > > > regressive autism.> > > > > > > > I will gladly question these people point blank about your > > > allegations> > > > and publish their responses in the Huffington Post.> > > > > > > > I cannot imagine that any of these researchers conducted > studies of> > > > "poor quality," as you say, given the rigorous peer review > system to> > > > which they were subjected (by some of the most respected > journals > > > in the> > > > field). > > > > > > > > Any specific information you have on the integrity of these > > > researchers> > > > and their studies should be shared with the public immediately.> > > > > > > > Many thanks> > > > > > > > Kirby> > > >> > >> >>

[Guest guest]

Waiting for the reply from the last rebuttal, Losing the argument??

ange

RE: Re: Better Diagnosis, My Arse

Do you think it is Tom Verstraeten?

hahahahahahahahahahaha!

From: " Nanstiel" <erikautismmedia (DOT) org>Reply-EOHarm To: EOHarm Subject: Re: Better Diagnosis, My ArseDate: Thu, 22 Feb 2007 15:00:49 -0000

I've been reading in some lists that someone is using multiple aliases all named after proteins... is "tom" really this guy's first name? Someone else was suspecting the "Diva" as being this multiple-protein personality.> > > >> > > > Dear Tom> > > > > > > > This is a very interesting statement:> > > > > > > > "The many studies> > > > published since the IOM report fail to implicate thimerosal. > The> > > > studies that have appeared in the literature since 2004 are of > poor> > > > quality and/or authored by scientists with conflicts of > interests,> > > > histories of plagiarism, outright negligence, and dishonesty."> > > > > > > > Please provide me with the evidence of these allegations, in > > > regards to> > > > the following researchers: Deth, Northeastern U; > Martha> > > > Herbert, Harvard U; Jill , Univ of Arkansas; > Burbacher, > > > Univ> > > > of Washington; Vargas, s Hopkins; Isaac Pessah, UC > ;> > > > Mady Hornig, Columbia U; Mark Noble, Univ of Rochester.> > > > > > > > These are the studies which, when taken together, suggest a > > > plausible> > > > biological mechanism for mercury exposure as a contributing > factor > > > to> > > > regressive autism.> > > > > > > > I will gladly question these people point blank about your > > > allegations> > > > and publish their responses in the Huffington Post.> > > > > > > > I cannot imagine that any of these researchers conducted > studies of> > > > "poor quality," as you say, given the rigorous peer review > system to> > > > which they were subjected (by some of the most respected > journals > > > in the> > > > field). > > > > > > > > Any specific information you have on the integrity of these > > > researchers> > > > and their studies should be shared with the public immediately.> > > > > > > > Many thanks> > > > > > > > Kirby> > > >> > >> >>

[Guest guest]

I'm not waiting - no time for purple proteins...

> > > > >

> > > > > Dear Tom

> > > > >

> > > > > This is a very interesting statement:

> > > > >

> > > > > " The many studies

> > > > > published since the IOM report fail to implicate

thimerosal.

> > The

> > > > > studies that have appeared in the literature since

2004 are of

> > poor

> > > > > quality and/or authored by scientists with conflicts

of

> > interests,

> > > > > histories of plagiarism, outright negligence, and

dishonesty. "

> > > > >

> > > > > Please provide me with the evidence of these

allegations, in

> > > > regards to

> > > > > the following researchers: Deth, Northeastern

U;

> > Martha

> > > > > Herbert, Harvard U; Jill , Univ of Arkansas;

> > Burbacher,

> > > > Univ

> > > > > of Washington; Vargas, s Hopkins; Isaac

Pessah, UC

> > ;

> > > > > Mady Hornig, Columbia U; Mark Noble, Univ of Rochester.

> > > > >

> > > > > These are the studies which, when taken together,

suggest a

> > > > plausible

> > > > > biological mechanism for mercury exposure as a

contributing

> > factor

> > > > to

> > > > > regressive autism.

> > > > >

> > > > > I will gladly question these people point blank about

your

> > > > allegations

> > > > > and publish their responses in the Huffington Post.

> > > > >

> > > > > I cannot imagine that any of these researchers

conducted

> > studies of

> > > > > " poor quality, " as you say, given the rigorous peer

review

> > system to

> > > > > which they were subjected (by some of the most

respected

> > journals

> > > > in the

> > > > > field).

> > > > >

> > > > > Any specific information you have on the integrity of

these

> > > > researchers

> > > > > and their studies should be shared with the public

immediately.

> > > > >

> > > > > Many thanks

> > > > >

> > > > > Kirby

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Question? what is luprol?

I saw the Geirers give their powerpoint presentation on mercury effects at the NC Legislative Blding . along with Amy and 's MOMS AGAINST MERCURYeffort to inform/educate legislators .(all three were great!) You should have seen the MDs, Dental Lobbists, Pediatritions lined up to *not hear * what the Geirers had to show and tell.

They gave a great presentation, and gave me a chance to tell off the Pres. of the State Ped. Society , under his watch my latest grandson got the hours after birth Hep.b shot. I saw him before and I saw him after, man, what a difference...formula, problems( mother could nurse) upset stomach, yellow skin...a mess.

I Think he is a late talker and who knows what else may show up. Nora

Re: Better Diagnosis, My Arse

Tom, you list the Geiers "lupron" protocol as the worst of what they've done for our children.Before meeting the Geiers and investigating their protocol, my daughter wasn't very sociable... didn't like being touched, had gained few skills in the last five years and rarely demonstrated the extent of her "receptive" language vocabulary.She also had some self-injurious and destructive behaviors... she also would smear poop in the middle of the night... leaving us to clean her fecal frescoes in the morning. She was extremely moody, suffered from nasty G.I. problems & chronic diarrhea... do you really want me to go on???Since placing her on the protocol, we took her testosterone down from a high level of 23 ng/dcl (about 3 times her reference range) to hover around 10 or 11 ng/dcl. And what a difference that has made.She lost her tactile defensiveness (or most of it, anyway)... she is much more affectionate. She suddenly started understanding what a fork was all about and began using one at meals. She lost interest in her sippy cup and started drinking from regular cups. Her gut improved dramatically... and we now have much fewer problems with chronic constipation & diarrhea... the fecal frescoes are a thing of the past. She's happy, affectionate... and actually LIKES being hugged now.Her teachers have remarked at her dramatic improvements in school. She will actually sit and wait her turn with various activities... where she used to flit about the room knocking things off shelves. I could go on, but I suspect you don't care about my daughter.The Lupron protocol has been a godsend for my family... and we have had NO side effects.The Geiers are among a very few doctors who have been willing to investigate these related biochemistries and use an FDA-approved mainline medicine to treat the problem. And the vast majority of their patients (of which I speak with a few dozen) are reporting similar or SUPERIOR results than in our experience.I have been demonized by a group of despicable "ND's" who refuse to really look at the science and listen to the parents whose children are benefitting from this protocol. They would prefer to take away my daughter's recent gains and improvements... but somehow I doubt they would be willing to help her (or us) live with the countless problems that her medical conditions have presented.The Geiers have really stepped up to help... more than many other doctors we've worked with, they have consistent follow-up, they're very thorough with testing... and they are accessible when we have questions or concerns.Tom, you've allowed Kathleen Seidel to draw you in with her tapestry of misrepresentations, lies and half-truths. You can make anything look frightening with the right lighting... >> ....and worst of all treating children with lupron. > > > Many, many thanks,> Tom>

[Guest guest]

Hi Nora,

Lupron is a drug that is nearly identical to a natural brain chemical that

suppresses the sex

hormones. It is an FDA-approved treatment for central precocious puberty and

hyper

androgenicity. It's also used to help treat prostate cancer in adults...

Watch the Geiers' talk about their protocol in this November 2005 inteview:

http://www.autismmedia.org/media4.html

> >

> > ....and worst of all treating children with lupron.

> >

> >

> > Many, many thanks,

> > Tom

> >

>