Re: Better Diagnosis, My Arse

[Guest guest]

Excuse me I don't mean to offend, but the genetics in your neighborhood

SUCKS!!!!!

> His sister has PDD-NOS(recovering nicely).

> His other good friend, Mikey's 11 year old brother has Asperger's.

> And his best friend 's baby brother now may have Autism.

>

> These children live within 2 blocks of one another.

>

> The same neighborhood where I grew up, where I knew no one with

autism.

>

> 3 friends with 3 siblings who have Autism in 2 blocks.

>

> Better diagnosis, my ass...

>

[Guest guest]

Excuse me I don't mean to offend, but the genetics in your neighborhood

SUCKS!!!!!

> His sister has PDD-NOS(recovering nicely).

> His other good friend, Mikey's 11 year old brother has Asperger's.

> And his best friend 's baby brother now may have Autism.

>

> These children live within 2 blocks of one another.

>

> The same neighborhood where I grew up, where I knew no one with

autism.

>

> 3 friends with 3 siblings who have Autism in 2 blocks.

>

> Better diagnosis, my ass...

>

[Guest guest]

There are 5 spectrum Kids within about 500 yards of my home. Two of

them in special ed classrooms, One of them is in high school, one

Aspie and my son (PDD; high functioning).

We have lived here for less than 3 years, so there may be more that

I don't know about.

>

> Excuse me I don't mean to offend, but the genetics in your

neighborhood

> SUCKS!!!!!

>

>

>

>

> > His sister has PDD-NOS(recovering nicely).

> > His other good friend, Mikey's 11 year old brother has

Asperger's.

> > And his best friend 's baby brother now may have Autism.

> >

> > These children live within 2 blocks of one another.

> >

> > The same neighborhood where I grew up, where I knew no one with

> autism.

> >

> > 3 friends with 3 siblings who have Autism in 2 blocks.

> >

> > Better diagnosis, my ass...

> >

>

[Guest guest]

There are 5 spectrum Kids within about 500 yards of my home. Two of

them in special ed classrooms, One of them is in high school, one

Aspie and my son (PDD; high functioning).

We have lived here for less than 3 years, so there may be more that

I don't know about.

>

> Excuse me I don't mean to offend, but the genetics in your

neighborhood

> SUCKS!!!!!

>

>

>

>

> > His sister has PDD-NOS(recovering nicely).

> > His other good friend, Mikey's 11 year old brother has

Asperger's.

> > And his best friend 's baby brother now may have Autism.

> >

> > These children live within 2 blocks of one another.

> >

> > The same neighborhood where I grew up, where I knew no one with

> autism.

> >

> > 3 friends with 3 siblings who have Autism in 2 blocks.

> >

> > Better diagnosis, my ass...

> >

>

[Guest guest]

5 autistic boys (including my son) in a 500 yard radius of our

home.

> >

> > Excuse me I don't mean to offend, but the genetics in your

> neighborhood

> > SUCKS!!!!!

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > > His sister has PDD-NOS(recovering nicely).

> > > His other good friend, Mikey's 11 year old brother has

> Asperger's.

> > > And his best friend 's baby brother now may have Autism.

> > >

> > > These children live within 2 blocks of one another.

> > >

> > > The same neighborhood where I grew up, where I knew no one with

> > autism.

> > >

> > > 3 friends with 3 siblings who have Autism in 2 blocks.

> > >

> > > Better diagnosis, my ass...

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

5 autistic boys (including my son) in a 500 yard radius of our

home.

> >

> > Excuse me I don't mean to offend, but the genetics in your

> neighborhood

> > SUCKS!!!!!

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > > His sister has PDD-NOS(recovering nicely).

> > > His other good friend, Mikey's 11 year old brother has

> Asperger's.

> > > And his best friend 's baby brother now may have Autism.

> > >

> > > These children live within 2 blocks of one another.

> > >

> > > The same neighborhood where I grew up, where I knew no one with

> > autism.

> > >

> > > 3 friends with 3 siblings who have Autism in 2 blocks.

> > >

> > > Better diagnosis, my ass...

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

When are the animals going to stop poisoning the babies?

Better Diagnosis, My Arse

So, Saturday afternoon I come in the house after a trip to the store to find my husband on the phone with a panicked look on his face.

"You have to take this, Jul", he says slowly as he covers the mouth of the phone and passes it to me with two hands.

"What's wrong?" I ask panicked. "Is someone dead?"

"No, just take it. It's Debbie. They think has Autism."

Debbie is my 9 year old son's best friend's mother. We've been friends for several years. , her youngest, is 17 months old.

He's not talking, he's not walking. He shakes his head back and forth, back and forth. He just recently started crawling in a circle over and over, like he's a dog chasing his tail.

"I just don't understand it," she says near tears. "None of this stuff happened until recently. I mean he's been slow, but he's been fine. I can't believe this. It took everything in me not to drive over to your house and show up on your door step in tears."

"How recently?", I asked cautiously. "Before or after the high pitched screaming episode you told me about following his most recent shots?"

Apparently a few weeks ago, after the MMR, DTaP and Polio in one visit, had a high fever (accompanied by lumps at the injection sites) that had him up the whole night crying and screaming.

Silence.

"Oh, my God. It was right after. Oh, my God."

Silence.

Debbie is an emergency room nurse at one of the top hospitals in Chicago.

We finished the conversation. They are going for a hearing test, an EEG, and a developmental exam next week.

If is diagnosed with Autism, then the following will be true for my 9 year old son:

His sister has PDD-NOS(recovering nicely).

His other good friend, Mikey's 11 year old brother has Asperger's.

And his best friend 's baby brother now may have Autism.

These children live within 2 blocks of one another.

The same neighborhood where I grew up, where I knew no one with autism.

3 friends with 3 siblings who have Autism in 2 blocks.

Better diagnosis, my ass...

[Guest guest]

Let me see if I have this correct.

Twenty years ago autism struck 1:10,000. Two weeks ago the CDC comes out and says the autism rates are now 1:150. That's a significant change from the 1:166 they have been preaching the past few years. But it's not an increase, and it's not an epidemic? Would some CDC or IOM lurker please explain to us at what point do these numbers become an EPIDEMIC? I think we really need to establish the correct threshold.

Last Sunday, on the premier investigative journalism show on TV, an epidemiologist tells the world that there is NO EPIDEMIC OF AUTISM. It's a simple case of making the autism spectrum wider to include more cases that were previously ignored, misdiagnosed, or deemed not worthy enough for inclusion. Riiiight.

When the numbers were 1:10,000 those children and adults with autism were easy to overlook. Most were locked away. Not anymore. We're out here in your face, and we are not going away. No matter how wide you expand the criteria, or redefine the diagnosis. You cannot hide from 1:150. They will find you.

One child in one hundred and fifty on the spectrum, and one child in 5 or 6 with neurological damage is way beyond the scope of epidemiology or genetics This is a catastrophic increase and CAUSATION must be addressed. Using data sets in a computer program is NOT the way to research causation. And genetics cannot entirely explain these numbers either. Biology must be implicated and thoroughly examined in this as well.

In my opinion the epidemiologists have been at the heart of this controversy since it surfaced. The epidemiologists denying the science are indeed disingenuous. They often manipulate the numbers to show a preordained outcome. That is not science. That is deception. For reference see the infamous Denmark study, or the minutes from the Simpsonwood meeting. The numbers have been cooked. It happens every day in business, and government. I think it's defined as obfuscation, or maybe "spin". It is certainly dishonest.

The biological science from the laboratories, on the other hand, appears definitive and often indisputable. A link between autism and thimerosal appears to be biologically plausible, according to the IOM. The multiple additives put into vaccines are often acutely toxic at levels much lower than anyone had ever tested them for. If there ever was any testing. The synergistic effect they have on each other also appears to increase their lethal effects, according to Boyd Haley. I believe he DID the science.

Can you honestly tell us that these toxic substances need to be injected into any human body? I would like to see the USP Biological Test results for thimerosal. I would also appreciate the USP testing on each of the additives used in vaccines. I can't wait to see the Acute Systemic Toxicity results. How many mice will survive? Come on. Show us these results. Show us the real science.

Let us see the lab results. USP testing is simple and relatively inexpensive. There are independent labs all over the country that do this every day. The government and the pharmaceutical industry have not shown the results of any toxicity studies. Why? Boyd Haley believes you can't even design a study to prove the safety of thimerosal. Based on my extensive conversations with industrial chemists and medial device manufactures I am forced to agree with him. Pediatricians and pharmaceutical companies are the only ones who think this stuff is safe and lobby for it's continued usage. How stupid is that?

Meanwhile Dr. Burbacher shows the lethal effects of tiny amounts of thimerosal on primates. How simply scientific of him. In my opinion, that's the science we need to be looking at. Not computer science. You're looking in the wrong department. Go over to the biology building on campus.

While we are at it, let's study the real effects of tripling the number of mandated vaccines in such a short period of time, and yes 20 years is a SHORT period of time. It seems the FDA did not adequately allow for proper studies on the cumulative effects on an infant's developing systems of all these injections. To the casual observer it raises many questions. To the father of three, who watched his normally developing son regress into silence and a host of BIOLOGICAL disorders as a direct result of assault by too many vaccines attacking his little body, it answers a lot of the questions. This was nothing more than shoddy work done by pharmaceutical corporations and dismal oversight by the FDA to fast track vaccines into the mandated schedule.

It's a trend that repeats itself with other drugs as well. We have a list of drugs that have been rushed to market only to be recalled later when they are found to cause serious side effects, like frequent death. Are we to believe the same companies that won't do their homework on the pills they tell us to pop, should be trusted when they tell us the vaccines the make are safe? How stupid is that?

For all the thimerosal, aluminum and multiple vaccine apologists as well as the epidemiologists. Keep it up. Your credibility is diminishing every time you open your mouths. If all you've got to back you up is a stack of manipulated computer printouts, you've already lost.

If you want to find the real cause of autism, start looking in the laboratory and not in the courtroom,or the used car lot.

Harry H. Check out free AOL. Most comprehensive set of free safety and security tools, millions of free high-quality videos from across the web, free AOL Mail and much more.

[Guest guest]

Dr. Goodman knows the literature and the science of epidemics and he

has concluded that there's no data to support an epidemic of autism.

He is not alone in this conclusion. There is a consensus among

epidemiologists that autism rates are not increasing.

Calling Dr. Goodman a used car salesman and inferring that he's

disingenuous fails to counter the findings from a scientific

discipline that has a long and accurate history of tracking down the

causes of disease.

The only reason to vilify the fellow is because his findings are

inconsistent with the theory that thimerosal is to blame for autism.

It may be that he's wrong about this. If so, the flaws in his work

will be found and his reputation will suffer.

But if he's right, then isn't it a great relief to know that

something tragically preventable like the preservative in vaccines

was not the cause of our children's disorder?

Wouldn't it then be helpful to focus energy on finding the real cause

of autism?

Hey, didn't you guys hear that well dressed professional man on 60

minutes tell the world there is no autism epidemic? Isn't it just

better and a broader diagnosis? What's wrong with us? We're supposed

to believe him. He looked sincere. He sounded like he was sincere.

My 21 yo daughter said he sounded like a used car salesman.

Harry H.

[Guest guest]

Yes, there's no autism epidemic, there was no holocaust, my children are not

being treated like Ford Pintos, the Tobacco guys were innocent, pure Oxygen

pumped into preemies isolettes did not cause blindness, pregnant women

taking DES in the '50s did not cause uterine cancer in female children. . .

.. . . . .

>From: hhofher@...

>Reply-EOHarm

>EOHarm

>Subject: Re: Better Diagnosis, My Arse

>Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2007 00:35:35 EST

>

>Hey, didn't you guys hear that well dressed professional man on 60 minutes

>tell the world there is no autism epidemic? Isn't it just better and a

>broader

>diagnosis? What's wrong with us? We're supposed to believe him. He looked

>sincere. He sounded like he was sincere. My 21 yo daughter said he sounded

>like

>a used car salesman.

>

>Harry H.

_________________________________________________________________

http://homepage.msn.com/zune?icid=hmetagline

[Guest guest]

And we can all be thankful that Rhodopsin1appears not to be a shill.

Re: Better Diagnosis, My Arse>Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2007 00:35:35 EST>>Hey, didn't you guys hear that well dressed professional man on 60 minutes>tell the world there is no autism epidemic? Isn't it just better and a >broader>diagnosis? What's wrong with us? We're supposed to believe him. He looked>sincere. He sounded like he was sincere. My 21 yo daughter said he sounded >like>a used car salesman.>>Harry H.__________________________________________________________http://homepage.msn.com/zune?icid=hmetagline

[Guest guest]

" Wouldn't it then be helpful to focus energy on finding the real

cause of autism " ?

As a quiz, let's just see here. So, what would your best guess be

for potential " real causes " if thimerosal is in fact NOT a factor.

A) TV watching and older fathers.

Other possible triggers such as aluminum, formaldehyde, Viral

issues (from vaccines or otherwise), some combination of the

previous? Etc, etc...

Just curious

>

> Hey, didn't you guys hear that well dressed professional man on

60

> minutes tell the world there is no autism epidemic? Isn't it just

> better and a broader diagnosis? What's wrong with us? We're

supposed

> to believe him. He looked sincere. He sounded like he was

sincere.

> My 21 yo daughter said he sounded like a used car salesman.

>

> Harry H.

>

[Guest guest]

n EOHarm , " McDonough " <kevntimmcd@...> wrote:

What part of this do you not understand.

Response:

The part I don't understand is all the name calling and absolute

certainty that mercury is to blame for autism.

Steve Goodman and other epidemiologists have looked at the data and

concluded that there's nothing compelling to support an autism

epidemic. That doesn't make him a shill or a jerk or a used-car

salesman.

It just means he and others have found evidence that doesn't fit the

thimerosal theory.

[Guest guest]

Can't I just say something really stupid, really damaging and designed to mislead and just leave it at that?

Why do you have to challenge me?

Re: Better Diagnosis, My Arse

n EOHarm , " McDonough" <kevntimmcd@...> wrote:What part of this do you not understand.Response:The part I don't understand is all the name calling and absolute certainty that mercury is to blame for autism. Steve Goodman and other epidemiologists have looked at the data and concluded that there's nothing compelling to support an autism epidemic. That doesn't make him a shill or a jerk or a used-car salesman. It just means he and others have found evidence that doesn't fit the thimerosal theory.

[Guest guest]

Everyone on this list is aware that current popular epidemiology does not

support the Thimerosal Theory. Thank you for sharing but I can't help but

hum " Taps " and " Revellry " (sp.?) at the same time while typing this. I hope

you understand what I'm trying to say to you nicely.

>From: " rhodopsin1 " <rhodopsin1@...>

>Reply-EOHarm

>EOHarm

>Subject: Re: Better Diagnosis, My Arse

>Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2007 16:03:05 -0000

>

>n EOHarm , " McDonough " <kevntimmcd@...> wrote:

>What part of this do you not understand.

>

>Response:

>The part I don't understand is all the name calling and absolute

>certainty that mercury is to blame for autism.

>

>Steve Goodman and other epidemiologists have looked at the data and

>concluded that there's nothing compelling to support an autism

>epidemic. That doesn't make him a shill or a jerk or a used-car

>salesman.

>

>It just means he and others have found evidence that doesn't fit the

>thimerosal theory.

>

>

>

_________________________________________________________________

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[Guest guest]

LOL!

> What part of this do you not understand.

>

> Response:

> The part I don't understand is all the name calling and absolute

> certainty that mercury is to blame for autism.

>

> Steve Goodman and other epidemiologists have looked at the data

and

> concluded that there's nothing compelling to support an autism

> epidemic. That doesn't make him a shill or a jerk or a used-car

> salesman.

>

> It just means he and others have found evidence that doesn't fit

the

> thimerosal theory.

>

[Guest guest]

Y? because we love you.....M-O-U-S-EEEEEEEEEEEE!

From: H <stratpat@...>Reply-EOHarm To: EOHarm Subject: Re: Re: Better Diagnosis, My ArseDate: Tue, 20 Feb 2007 11:10:16 -0500

Can't I just say something really stupid, really damaging and designed to mislead and just leave it at that?

Why do you have to challenge me?

Re: Better Diagnosis, My Arse

n EOHarm , " McDonough" <kevntimmcd@...> wrote:What part of this do you not understand.Response:The part I don't understand is all the name calling and absolute certainty that mercury is to blame for autism. Steve Goodman and other epidemiologists have looked at the data and concluded that there's nothing compelling to support an autism epidemic. That doesn't make him a shill or a jerk or a used-car salesman. It just means he and others have found evidence that doesn't fit the thimerosal theory.

[Guest guest]

celiacdaughter,

You know very well what the cause is because the " experts " have

spoken, and proclaimed it to be defective genes - you know,

the " autism " gene(s). Never mind that the rates of autism have

skyrocketed over the past 20 years - the " experts " have also told us

that there isn't an increase in autism. Why should you be so

difficult to convince? These are all very ethical " experts " with very

high integrity who would never ever consider doing anything nefarious

with the DATA. What is wrong with your " belief " system that you can't

be brainwashed into believing the " experts " ?

Seriously though, the " belief " system that has worked so well for so

long is crumbling in all areas of life around the blue marble, and

the conscious people want unadulterated facts and TRUTH. What else

can the dark forces due but to keep spinning tales of deceit with

their DATA.

> >

> > Hey, didn't you guys hear that well dressed professional man on

> 60

> > minutes tell the world there is no autism epidemic? Isn't it just

> > better and a broader diagnosis? What's wrong with us? We're

> supposed

> > to believe him. He looked sincere. He sounded like he was

> sincere.

> > My 21 yo daughter said he sounded like a used car salesman.

> >

> > Harry H.

> >

>

[Guest guest]

If you look at that fancy suit Dr. Goodman appears to have gotten for using his professionalism and reputation as a shill for the vaccine deniers and you compare it with the suit worn by the Wizard of Oz in the original MGM classic, I think we have found a duplicate- all the way down waist size.

Re: Better Diagnosis, My Arse

celiacdaughter,You know very well what the cause is because the "experts" have spoken, and proclaimed it to be defective genes - you know, the "autism" gene(s). Never mind that the rates of autism have skyrocketed over the past 20 years - the "experts" have also told us that there isn't an increase in autism. Why should you be so difficult to convince? These are all very ethical "experts" with very high integrity who would never ever consider doing anything nefarious with the DATA. What is wrong with your "belief" system that you can't be brainwashed into believing the "experts"? Seriously though, the "belief" system that has worked so well for so long is crumbling in all areas of life around the blue marble, and the conscious people want unadulterated facts and TRUTH. What else can the dark forces due but to keep spinning tales of deceit with their DATA. > > > > Hey, didn't you guys hear that well dressed professional man on > 60 > > minutes tell the world there is no autism epidemic? Isn't it just > > better and a broader diagnosis? What's wrong with us? We're > supposed > > to believe him. He looked sincere. He sounded like he was > sincere. > > My 21 yo daughter said he sounded like a used car salesman. > > > > Harry H.> >>

[Guest guest]

Great - And could you find me an epidemiologist without a serious

conflict of interest that would say that?

> What part of this do you not understand.

>

> Response:

> The part I don't understand is all the name calling and absolute

> certainty that mercury is to blame for autism.

>

> Steve Goodman and other epidemiologists have looked at the data and

> concluded that there's nothing compelling to support an autism

> epidemic. That doesn't make him a shill or a jerk or a used-car

> salesman.

>

> It just means he and others have found evidence that doesn't fit the

> thimerosal theory.

>

[Guest guest]

Dear rhodopsin1,

why are you a member of this list?

thnx, Heidi

From: "rhodopsin1" <rhodopsin1@...>Reply-EOHarm To: EOHarm Subject: Re: Better Diagnosis, My ArseDate: Tue, 20 Feb 2007 14:09:26 -0000

Dr. Goodman knows the literature and the science of epidemics and he has concluded that there's no data to support an epidemic of autism. He is not alone in this conclusion. There is a consensus among epidemiologists that autism rates are not increasing. Calling Dr. Goodman a used car salesman and inferring that he's disingenuous fails to counter the findings from a scientific discipline that has a long and accurate history of tracking down the causes of disease. The only reason to vilify the fellow is because his findings are inconsistent with the theory that thimerosal is to blame for autism. It may be that he's wrong about this. If so, the flaws in his work will be found and his reputation will suffer. But if he's right, then isn't it a great relief to know that something tragically preventable like the preservative in vaccines was not the cause of our children's disorder? Wouldn't it then be helpful to focus energy on finding the real cause of autism? Hey, didn't you guys hear that well dressed professional man on 60 minutes tell the world there is no autism epidemic? Isn't it just better and a broader diagnosis? What's wrong with us? We're supposed to believe him. He looked sincere. He sounded like he was sincere. My 21 yo daughter said he sounded like a used car salesman. Harry H.

[Guest guest]

OK, can Dr. Goodman show us what evidence he is relying upon. I

would like to see it. Now. My husband is a scientist with a strong

epidemiological background, and he could fairly evaluate it. Get me

this guy's email address so my husband can talk to him.

It seems that his evidence would need to consist of data to show that

in the 80s (or whatever dataset he is comparing to today's data),

there was an enormous contingent of autistic children who were

labelled something else. Dr. Goodman should be able to PROVE to us

that these children 1) do in fact have autism, and 2) were in fact

given the wrong " label " .

These individuals who were misidentified should be REALLY EASY to

find. Even high functioning autistic children do not recover on

their own and will be dependent on society as adults. In the 1980's,

almost NO child who HAD AUTISM who was identified with something

else, would today be a functional independent individual. Even 90% of

Asperger's individuals are unemployed.

OK, so show us the data. Show us these individuals. Don't just talk

about " evidence " without showing it to us.

Jenna

> What part of this do you not understand.

>

> Response:

> The part I don't understand is all the name calling and absolute

> certainty that mercury is to blame for autism.

>

> Steve Goodman and other epidemiologists have looked at the data and

> concluded that there's nothing compelling to support an autism

> epidemic. That doesn't make him a shill or a jerk or a used-car

> salesman.

>

> It just means he and others have found evidence that doesn't fit

the

> thimerosal theory.

>

[Guest guest]

I for one am really glad you believe there is no autism epidemic.

I have noticed that all the discussion groups and doctor's offices

treating children biomedically have gotten really crowded in the past

year and I count my blessings that you are one less person to crowd

things up.

> What part of this do you not understand.

>

> Response:

> The part I don't understand is all the name calling and absolute

> certainty that mercury is to blame for autism.

>

> Steve Goodman and other epidemiologists have looked at the data and

> concluded that there's nothing compelling to support an autism

> epidemic. That doesn't make him a shill or a jerk or a used-car

> salesman.

>

> It just means he and others have found evidence that doesn't fit the

> thimerosal theory.

>

[Guest guest]

>

>

> OK, can Dr. Goodman show us what evidence he is relying upon.

Yes, it's freely available for download as a PDF file. Go to the

Institute of Medicine's site and read the report " Immunization Safety

Review: Vaccines and Autism "

[Guest guest]

Too bad I didn't save the rude and crass email I received from him;

I'd love to share it with all on this list.

I think you're wasting your time trying to convince the

knowledgeable and dedicated parents on this list that mercury,

particularly thimerosal, has not contributed to the autism

epidemic. We all know that epidemilogical evidence doesn't hold

water in a court of law. I have corresponded with an actuary and

statistician who is known for his work in the U.S. insurance

industry who told me, " The studies used to exonerate thimerosal in

the autism epidemic are complete garbage and would never be

acceptable in my industry. "

We are all familiar with the lab and clinical science that supports

our claim that thimerosal injured our kids. Many of us have the

urine toxic metal reports showing that mercury is pouring out of our

kids after we chelate. We have all read the MSDS for thimerosal,

the transcripts from the Simpsonwood Meeting, and " Mercury in

Medicine - Taking Unnecessary Risks " .

Please ask Dr. Goodman why the VSD data is not available so that the

Verstraeten study can be replicated. Also, ask him why the AAP

changed the wording when reporting the results of the Denmark study

(we have FOIA documents confirming that it was reported that autism

rates " decreased " when thimerosal was removed in Denmark, yet the

AAP used the word " increased " in their reporting of the study

results.)

>

> Hey, didn't you guys hear that well dressed professional man on

60

> minutes tell the world there is no autism epidemic? Isn't it just

> better and a broader diagnosis? What's wrong with us? We're

supposed

> to believe him. He looked sincere. He sounded like he was

sincere.

> My 21 yo daughter said he sounded like a used car salesman.

>

> Harry H.

>