Re: No Safe Minds, No EOHarm!

[Guest guest]

No implosion at all.

The best, most productive discussions are always the most heated.

And what is a heated discussion among your family members???

Those you mention have all done tremendous and great work, despite all efforts by some on the UnHelpful committee to deceive. They must be commended for their efforts.

Without them, we would not be here.

However, it should be noted that perhaps congress wants to dispose of this issue given the coming elections.

Query: are we giving up significant leverage in signing onto this legislation?

Kerbob's point is that if we walk away now and voice our disgust and frustration and use this issue to batter the candidates during the coming election, perhaps we can wind up with something significantly better.

No Safe Minds, No EOHarm!

Did we forget that Lyn and Mark and the rest are the folks who convinced Kirby to write a certain book? That Lyn is the focus of the MOVIE? Good God why are we imploding here? Keep your enemies close, keep your friends closer? That shouldn't be the way on this list. I can see getting bashed by the Neurodiverse community who think that pooping in your pants until 20 is cool. I know the autism Diva thinks I'm a hateful mother for trying to help my 5 year old to say "mama." I get it when the straight ABA folks come at us for daring to question their supremacy. But to disparage NAA and Safeminds on THIS LIST is just startling to me.Mark, Lyn, , et al. -- thank you for doing your best in the constantly shifting political sands of Washington.K

[Guest guest]

Some political considerations:

Note that come January 2007 Frist is gone (retirement- he is gearing up for a short-lived quixotic self-delusion about a Presidential run), Santorum will likely lose in Pennsylvania to Casey (based upon all polling numbers) and Hillary will not have the moral authority nor the predilection (without Frist and Santorum to run interference for her as in the present case) to impose purposefully frustrating measures regarding research on thimerosal/vaccines on the legislation.

Bush is already worried about investigations by Democratically controlled committees and subcommittees. He'll also have a somewhat steepened learning curve to game this issue because Frist will not be doing his bidding in the Senate any longer. It would appear to take some time to become a thief (er, I meant, Senate majority leader).

That's a huge difference and that political calculus is worth some consideration.

That and the adage:

"It's the squeaky wheel that gets greased"

The present negotitations on the CAA to my mind resemble a Kabuki dance- one party (parents of vaccine injured children) wants something diametrically opposed to what the other party wants (with respect to the thimerosal/vaccine issue)- and noone will provide or consider language which presents anything other than ambiguity on this issue to get the deal done. This happens all the time in negotiations, depending upon the leverage of the parties.

The problem is, these types of negotiations almost always result in litigation. Are we confident in our position or have we been completely gamed? I note that our team (to its credit, mind you) does not have the level of deviousness, malice aforethought, experience and years of disingenuousness in gaming the system in Washington as do those who are crafting the legislation and can slip provisions into major legislation at 11:59PM.

That discussion should be considered along with the following thoughts:

Who has the leverage here?

Have we screamed loudly enough?

Are we confident that we got all that we could?

These are fair questions.

If we don't get what we want now and walk away, how interesting will life be in the days ending in early November?

Just a few thoughts.

No Safe Minds, No EOHarm!

Did we forget that Lyn and Mark and the rest are the folks who convinced Kirby to write a certain book? That Lyn is the focus of the MOVIE? Good God why are we imploding here? Keep your enemies close, keep your friends closer? That shouldn't be the way on this list. I can see getting bashed by the Neurodiverse community who think that pooping in your pants until 20 is cool. I know the autism Diva thinks I'm a hateful mother for trying to help my 5 year old to say "mama." I get it when the straight ABA folks come at us for daring to question their supremacy. But to disparage NAA and Safeminds on THIS LIST is just startling to me.Mark, Lyn, , et al. -- thank you for doing your best in the constantly shifting political sands of Washington.K

[Guest guest]

Walking away without

staying to fight leaves you with nothing, .except a bill that then can go

on to be approved

approved without the changes that

were made by those who fought hard for them

so which would you rather? because

the bill is not going away......so let it go on without the changes fought for,

or work to make the changes?

giving up leverage? what

do you think walking away from it does? We are holding on to

what leverage there can be fought for and was fought for

that some stayed to do so, kudos to

you .that some left to express dismay, perhaps there had to be

raised the element of upset..those who left

have worked relentlessly as well...all of

our organizations have worked and persevered, stretching the limits of their

time and energy

but some of us had to stay otherwise

you lose any progress you hope to make leaving en masse, all

groups, would have been a disaster

Suzanne

From: EOHarm [mailto:EOHarm ] On Behalf Of H

Sent: Thursday, July 27, 2006 4:57

PM

EOHarm

Subject: Re: No Safe

Minds, No EOHarm!

No implosion at all.

The best, most productive discussions are always the

most heated.

And what is a heated discussion among your family members???

Those you mention have all done tremendous and great

work, despite all efforts by some on the UnHelpful committee to

deceive. They must be commended for their efforts.

Without them, we would not be here.

However, it should be noted that perhaps congress wants to

dispose of this issue given the coming elections.

Query: are we giving up significant leverage in signing onto

this legislation?

Kerbob's point is that if we walk away now and voice our

disgust and frustration and use this issue to batter the candidates during the

coming election, perhaps we can wind up with something significantly better.

No Safe

Minds, No EOHarm!

Did we forget that Lyn and Mark and the rest are the

folks who

convinced Kirby to write a certain book? That Lyn is the focus

of the MOVIE? Good God why are we imploding here? Keep your

enemies close, keep your friends closer? That shouldn't be the way on

this list.

I can see getting bashed by the Neurodiverse community who think that

pooping in your pants until 20 is cool. I know the autism Diva thinks

I'm a hateful mother for trying to help my 5 year old to say " mama. "

I get it when the straight ABA

folks come at us for daring to question

their supremacy. But to disparage NAA and Safeminds on THIS LIST is

just startling to me.

Mark, Lyn, , et al. -- thank you for doing your best in the

constantly shifting political sands of Washington.

K

[Guest guest]

Henry if this were my family someone would have thrown a large pot of

spaghetti sauce across the room by now! We don't have to

compare eachother to cancer -- that's a bit low, even by Gotti family

standards.....

KS

[Guest guest]

I would like to repost a comment I made to this list earlier on the

subject:

" There may be disagreements of tactics and strategies at times, but

let us not forget who are friends and family are. There can be

disagreements amongst ourselves, and at times strong disagreements.

But if in our passion lose our dignity and we forget who our friends

are we are lost in self-destruction. "

The role of SafeMinds, Lyn, Mark and Sallie, in bringing the science

and the issues to the public's awareness is nothing short of heroic.

Lenny

>

> Did we forget that Lyn and Mark and the rest are the folks who

> convinced Kirby to write a certain book? That Lyn is the focus

> of the MOVIE? Good God why are we imploding here? Keep your

> enemies close, keep your friends closer? That shouldn't be the way on

> this list.

>

> I can see getting bashed by the Neurodiverse community who think that

> pooping in your pants until 20 is cool. I know the autism Diva thinks

> I'm a hateful mother for trying to help my 5 year old to say " mama. "

> I get it when the straight ABA folks come at us for daring to question

> their supremacy. But to disparage NAA and Safeminds on THIS LIST is

> just startling to me.

>

> Mark, Lyn, , et al. -- thank you for doing your best in the

> constantly shifting political sands of Washington.

>

> K

>

[Guest guest]

Henry,

" Kerbob's point is that if we walk away now and voice our disgust and

frustration and use this issue to batter the candidates during the

coming election, perhaps we can wind up with something significantly

better. "

That is a strategy..but the issue of the message was the tone,

negativity, and continual below the belt comments. It was uncalled

for and not nice.

>

> No implosion at all.

> The best, most productive discussions are always the most heated.

> And what is a heated discussion among your family members???

>

> Those you mention have all done tremendous and great work, despite

all efforts by some on the UnHelpful committee to deceive. They must

be commended for their efforts.

> Without them, we would not be here.

>

> However, it should be noted that perhaps congress wants to dispose

of this issue given the coming elections.

>

> Query: are we giving up significant leverage in signing onto this

legislation?

>

> Kerbob's point is that if we walk away now and voice our disgust and

frustration and use this issue to batter the candidates during the

coming election, perhaps we can wind up with something significantly

better.

>

>

> No Safe Minds, No EOHarm!

>

>

> Did we forget that Lyn and Mark and the rest are the folks who

> convinced Kirby to write a certain book? That Lyn is the focus

> of the MOVIE? Good God why are we imploding here? Keep your

> enemies close, keep your friends closer? That shouldn't be the way on

> this list.

>

> I can see getting bashed by the Neurodiverse community who think that

> pooping in your pants until 20 is cool. I know the autism Diva thinks

> I'm a hateful mother for trying to help my 5 year old to say " mama. "

> I get it when the straight ABA folks come at us for daring to

question

> their supremacy. But to disparage NAA and Safeminds on THIS LIST is

> just startling to me.

>

> Mark, Lyn, , et al. -- thank you for doing your best in the

> constantly shifting political sands of Washington.

>

> K

>

[Guest guest]

That's a cogent, intelligent explanation and we thank you for that.

Have we left ourselves room for further negotiations, approaches, etc?

The only relevant issue here is the research into something congress wants to totally avoid and that we need to cause if there is to be relevant, real treatment protocols which emanate from the spending of those research dollars.

No Safe Minds, No EOHarm!

Did we forget that Lyn and Mark and the rest are the folks who convinced Kirby to write a certain book? That Lyn is the focus of the MOVIE? Good God why are we imploding here? Keep your enemies close, keep your friends closer? That shouldn't be the way on this list. I can see getting bashed by the Neurodiverse community who think that pooping in your pants until 20 is cool. I know the autism Diva thinks I'm a hateful mother for trying to help my 5 year old to say "mama." I get it when the straight ABA folks come at us for daring to question their supremacy. But to disparage NAA and Safeminds on THIS LIST is just startling to me.Mark, Lyn, , et al. -- thank you for doing your best in the constantly shifting political sands of Washington.K

[Guest guest]

The sands aren't shifting in Washington. The defense of thimerosal and vaccines is rock solid as evidenced in the harmful CAA bill.

No Safe Minds, No EOHarm!

Did we forget that Lyn and Mark and the rest are the folks who convinced Kirby to write a certain book? That Lyn is the focus of the MOVIE? Good God why are we imploding here? Keep your enemies close, keep your friends closer? That shouldn't be the way on this list. I can see getting bashed by the Neurodiverse community who think that pooping in your pants until 20 is cool. I know the autism Diva thinks I'm a hateful mother for trying to help my 5 year old to say "mama." I get it when the straight ABA folks come at us for daring to question their supremacy. But to disparage NAA and Safeminds on THIS LIST is just startling to me.Mark, Lyn, , et al. -- thank you for doing your best in the constantly shifting political sands of Washington.K

[Guest guest]

Please stop the trifling on this subject. You have absolutely no hope of getting needed thimerosal and vaccine research into this bill. Looking at life through rose-colored glasses is extremely ill-advised.

No Safe Minds, No EOHarm!

Did we forget that Lyn and Mark and the rest are the folks who convinced Kirby to write a certain book? That Lyn is the focus of the MOVIE? Good God why are we imploding here? Keep your enemies close, keep your friends closer? That shouldn't be the way on this list. I can see getting bashed by the Neurodiverse community who think that pooping in your pants until 20 is cool. I know the autism Diva thinks I'm a hateful mother for trying to help my 5 year old to say "mama." I get it when the straight ABA folks come at us for daring to question their supremacy. But to disparage NAA and Safeminds on THIS LIST is just startling to me.Mark, Lyn, , et al. -- thank you for doing your best in the constantly shifting political sands of Washington.K