Guest guest Posted March 6, 2006 Report Posted March 6, 2006 Hi Peta We do high doses every other day (instead of evry 3rd day) - the improvements just keep on coming. We give 7.2ml at the recommended concentration of 25mg/ml, my son is a fairly skinny 7 year old. We have increased twice from our original dose. We have been on MB12 for over 15 months now. Its wonderful stuff for us. Tina peta_catherine <peta_catherine@...> wrote: HiA friend of mine recently saw Bock in New York and he recommended icreasing doses of mb12 up to 125mg. We have always stayed on 25mg. Is anyone else increasing the amount of the dose and are there more side effects?ThanksPetaDISCLAIMERNo information contained in this post is to be construed as medical advice. If you need medical advice, please seek it from a suitably qualified practitioner. Quote
Guest guest Posted March 6, 2006 Report Posted March 6, 2006 Thanks Tina my friends son is hyper sensitive to everything. She is so exhausted she doesn't manage to read this site. He also advised DMSA suppositories and said doesn't use transdermal DMPS. Do you know anyone else who chelates with supps - our Charlie is quite compliant but we couldn't get one in him. Peta- -- In Autism Treatment , SIMON WOOD <simon_tinawood@...> wrote: > > Hi Peta > > We do high doses every other day (instead of evry 3rd day) - the improvements just keep on coming. We give 7.2ml at the recommended concentration of 25mg/ml, my son is a fairly skinny 7 year old. > > We have increased twice from our original dose. We have been on MB12 for over 15 months now. Its wonderful stuff for us. > > Tina > > > > peta_catherine <peta_catherine@...> wrote: > Hi > A friend of mine recently saw Bock in New York and he recommended > icreasing doses of mb12 up to 125mg. We have always stayed on 25mg. Is > anyone else increasing the amount of the dose and are there more side > effects? > Thanks > Peta > > > > > > DISCLAIMER > No information contained in this post is to be construed as medical advice. If you need medical advice, please seek it from a suitably qualified practitioner. > > Quote
Guest guest Posted March 6, 2006 Report Posted March 6, 2006 Hi Peta We use transdermal DMPS. Different Doctors seem to have different preferences. Dr McCandless seems to be a big td fan and is anti suppositories, Dr Usman who we are with uses td, oral and IVs, others stick with oral. Don't know too many using suppositories, but I'm sure they work fine with some kids. Not something I would like to try..... Tina peta_catherine <peta_catherine@...> wrote: Thanks Tinamy friends son is hyper sensitive to everything. She is so exhausted she doesn't manage to read this site.He also advised DMSA suppositories and said doesn't use transdermal DMPS. Do you know anyone else who chelates with supps - our Charlie is quite compliant but we couldn't get one in him.Peta> Hi> A friend of mine recently saw Bock in New York and he recommended > icreasing doses of mb12 up to 125mg. We have always stayed on 25mg. Is > anyone else increasing the amount of the dose and are there more side > effects?> Thanks> Peta> > > > > > DISCLAIMER> No information contained in this post is to be construed as medical advice. If you need medical advice, please seek it from a suitably qualified practitioner.> > Quote
Guest guest Posted March 6, 2006 Report Posted March 6, 2006 Suppositories are not something you want to do, unless there is NO other option. Without getting too graphic, you can set up a Lot of problems, especially if the child is young, by administering medications rectally. I have heard some people say this is fine for young children, but for developmental reasons and future psychological concerns, young children are the LAST age group for which suppositories should be used. Personally, I would run away as fast as I could from a dr who prefers this choice. Tells me things about the dr I don't want to know. Am I being subtle enough??? Re: Re: Mthyl b12 Hi Peta We use transdermal DMPS. Different Doctors seem to have different preferences. Dr McCandless seems to be a big td fan and is anti suppositories, Dr Usman who we are with uses td, oral and IVs, others stick with oral. Don't know too many using suppositories, but I'm sure they work fine with some kids. Not something I would like to try..... Tina peta_catherine <peta_catherine@...> wrote: Thanks Tinamy friends son is hyper sensitive to everything. She is so exhausted she doesn't manage to read this site.He also advised DMSA suppositories and said doesn't use transdermal DMPS. Do you know anyone else who chelates with supps - our Charlie is quite compliant but we couldn't get one in him.Peta> Hi> A friend of mine recently saw Bock in New York and he recommended > icreasing doses of mb12 up to 125mg. We have always stayed on 25mg. Is > anyone else increasing the amount of the dose and are there more side > effects?> Thanks> Peta> > > > > > DISCLAIMER> No information contained in this post is to be construed as medical advice. If you need medical advice, please seek it from a suitably qualified practitioner.> > Quote
Guest guest Posted March 6, 2006 Report Posted March 6, 2006 You shouldn't feel responsible for your friends doctors. No one here likes my sons doctor, but I make sure I get my moneys worth, and question everything, I was offered a refund on some of the tests we had done because of confusing results, I honestly wouldn't part with money if I wasn't satisfied, sometimes if you don't want to be on the end of a huge waiting list you have to make it work for you. Vicky xx Quote
Guest guest Posted March 6, 2006 Report Posted March 6, 2006 , Yes this is the "Anglo-Saxon" view of things. But the French do things very differently -don't ever put a thermometer in a French bathroom in your mouth....! Margaret Re: Re: Mthyl b12 Hi Peta We use transdermal DMPS. Different Doctors seem to have different preferences. Dr McCandless seems to be a big td fan and is anti suppositories, Dr Usman who we are with uses td, oral and IVs, others stick with oral. Don't know too many using suppositories, but I'm sure they work fine with some kids. Not something I would like to try..... Tina peta_catherine <peta_catherine@...> wrote: Thanks Tinamy friends son is hyper sensitive to everything. She is so exhausted she doesn't manage to read this site.He also advised DMSA suppositories and said doesn't use transdermal DMPS. Do you know anyone else who chelates with supps - our Charlie is quite compliant but we couldn't get one in him.Peta> Hi> A friend of mine recently saw Bock in New York and he recommended > icreasing doses of mb12 up to 125mg. We have always stayed on 25mg. Is > anyone else increasing the amount of the dose and are there more side > effects?> Thanks> Peta> > > > > > DISCLAIMER> No information contained in this post is to be construed as medical advice. If you need medical advice, please seek it from a suitably qualified practitioner.> > Quote
Guest guest Posted March 6, 2006 Report Posted March 6, 2006 LOL, thanks for the tip. I am unlikely to forget that one! Well, in addition to the "Anglo-Saxon" view, it is the view of a child/family psychologist of 12 plus years experience in dealing with more than a few cases of fetishes over the lifetime of my career. The psychological impact on childhood development wouldn't matter whether you're in the US or Japan. Re: Re: Mthyl b12 Hi Peta We use transdermal DMPS. Different Doctors seem to have different preferences. Dr McCandless seems to be a big td fan and is anti suppositories, Dr Usman who we are with uses td, oral and IVs, others stick with oral. Don't know too many using suppositories, but I'm sure they work fine with some kids. Not something I would like to try..... Tina peta_catherine <peta_catherine@...> wrote: Thanks Tinamy friends son is hyper sensitive to everything. She is so exhausted she doesn't manage to read this site.He also advised DMSA suppositories and said doesn't use transdermal DMPS. Do you know anyone else who chelates with supps - our Charlie is quite compliant but we couldn't get one in him.Peta> Hi> A friend of mine recently saw Bock in New York and he recommended > icreasing doses of mb12 up to 125mg. We have always stayed on 25mg. Is > anyone else increasing the amount of the dose and are there more side > effects?> Thanks> Peta> > > > > > DISCLAIMER> No information contained in this post is to be construed as medical advice. If you need medical advice, please seek it from a suitably qualified practitioner.> > Quote
Guest guest Posted March 6, 2006 Report Posted March 6, 2006 I agree, but the French are a law unto themselves in many ways! Margaret Re: Re: Mthyl b12 Hi Peta We use transdermal DMPS. Different Doctors seem to have different preferences. Dr McCandless seems to be a big td fan and is anti suppositories, Dr Usman who we are with uses td, oral and IVs, others stick with oral. Don't know too many using suppositories, but I'm sure they work fine with some kids. Not something I would like to try..... Tina peta_catherine <peta_catherine@...> wrote: Thanks Tinamy friends son is hyper sensitive to everything. She is so exhausted she doesn't manage to read this site.He also advised DMSA suppositories and said doesn't use transdermal DMPS. Do you know anyone else who chelates with supps - our Charlie is quite compliant but we couldn't get one in him.Peta> Hi> A friend of mine recently saw Bock in New York and he recommended > icreasing doses of mb12 up to 125mg. We have always stayed on 25mg. Is > anyone else increasing the amount of the dose and are there more side > effects?> Thanks> Peta> > > > > > DISCLAIMER> No information contained in this post is to be construed as medical advice. If you need medical advice, please seek it from a suitably qualified practitioner.> > Quote
Guest guest Posted March 6, 2006 Report Posted March 6, 2006 I don't know why this dr suggested suppositories. My friend is having such a bad time - she went to Holland and spent £1500 on tests but no advice and no chelation and now she has gone to New York and still feels in the dark. Our dr has such a long waiting list she can't wait 11/2 years. The trouble is that it is easy to quickly lose confidence in dr's. She went all the wat to NY and he didn't answer her questions! I feel somehow responsible because I've got her into the bio-medical stuff. Thanks for your replie's Peta -- In Autism Treatment , " Cochran " <Ladyshrink111@...> wrote: > > Suppositories are not something you want to do, unless there is NO other option. Without getting too graphic, you can set up a Lot of problems, especially if the child is young, by administering medications rectally. > > I have heard some people say this is fine for young children, but for developmental reasons and future psychological concerns, young children are the LAST age group for which suppositories should be used. > > Personally, I would run away as fast as I could from a dr who prefers this choice. Tells me things about the dr I don't want to know. Am I being subtle enough??? > > > Re: Re: Mthyl b12 > > > Hi Peta > > We use transdermal DMPS. Different Doctors seem to have different preferences. Dr McCandless seems to be a big td fan and is anti suppositories, Dr Usman who we are with uses td, oral and IVs, others stick with oral. Don't know too many using suppositories, but I'm sure they work fine with some kids. > > Not something I would like to try..... > > Tina > > > peta_catherine <peta_catherine@...> wrote: > Thanks Tina > my friends son is hyper sensitive to everything. She is so exhausted > she doesn't manage to read this site. > He also advised DMSA suppositories and said doesn't use transdermal > DMPS. Do you know anyone else who chelates with supps - our Charlie > is quite compliant but we couldn't get one in him. > Peta- > > > > -- In Autism Treatment , SIMON WOOD > wrote: > > > > Hi Peta > > > > We do high doses every other day (instead of evry 3rd day) - the > improvements just keep on coming. We give 7.2ml at the recommended > concentration of 25mg/ml, my son is a fairly skinny 7 year old. > > > > We have increased twice from our original dose. We have been on > MB12 for over 15 months now. Its wonderful stuff for us. > > > > Tina > > > > > > > > peta_catherine wrote: > > Hi > > A friend of mine recently saw Bock in New York and he recommended > > icreasing doses of mb12 up to 125mg. We have always stayed on > 25mg. Is > > anyone else increasing the amount of the dose and are there more > side > > effects? > > Thanks > > Peta > > > > > > > > > > > > DISCLAIMER > > No information contained in this post is to be construed as > medical advice. If you need medical advice, please seek it from a > suitably qualified practitioner. > > > > Quote
Guest guest Posted March 7, 2006 Report Posted March 7, 2006 Hi Peta Biomed is very confusing at first, but your friend needs to read as much as possible and use online resources to get a basic understanding of how it fits together. www.treatingautism.com has a great list of online resources in the links section, and also gives the basics of biomed. Children with Starving Brains by Dr McCandless is a good book, if a bit heavy going the first read through. Groups like this one are fantastic - although I know its hard to find the time to do everything! We did a fairly standard order of treatments I think 1. Heal the gut as much as possible - take out foods the child is intolerant to, reduce greatly or eliminate processed sugar, treat yeast overgrowth, bacteria, parasites, take probiotics to keep the good bugs in charge. 2. Improve the childs nutritional status - Brainchild Vitamins and Minerals have been great for both my kids (one ASD, one NT but with a few sensory quirks), get in the fatty acids. Use testing to normalise vits, mins and fatty acids. Try digestive enzymes - we use Houston - these increase absorption from foods and for us gave the 'happy child' effect even though we are on a strict diet. 3. Move onto the more advanced treatments eg MB12, LDN, chelation. BUT Remember - go slow and let one settle down before moving onto another. We took 6 months to work up to full dose on chelation, but we got there in the end. Its not a race. In the end, as a parent you need to work with the Doctor, I for example have always used natural yeast treaments and declined the prescription treatments - but we got yeast under control fairly early by totally eliminating sugar for a year. I wouldn't do IVs or suppositories - but again that is cos my son is doing really well with td. Don't be afraid to give your opinions and ask questions if you don't understand. A good Dr will want to work with you. In the end it all becomes clear - we started the diet 4 1/2 years ago.... makes me feel really old!! Good luck to your friend, Peta. Get her to watch the recovered kids video on treatingautism, and also read the stories of hope cos they give parents stories at different stages in biomed. And as Mandi says...its a marathon noit a sprint!! Tina peta_catherine <peta_catherine@...> wrote: I don't know why this dr suggested suppositories. My friend is having such a bad time - she went to Holland and spent £1500 on tests but no advice and no chelation and now she has gone to New York and still feels in the dark. Our dr has such a long waiting list she can't wait 11/2 years. The trouble is that it is easy to quickly lose confidence in dr's. She went all the wat to NY and he didn't answer her questions!I feel somehow responsible because I've got her into the bio-medical stuff.Thanks for your replie'sPeta-- In Autism Treatment , " Cochran" wrote:>> Suppositories are not something you want to do, unless there is NO other option. Without getting too graphic, you can set up a Lot of problems, especially if the child is young, by administering medications rectally.> > I have heard some people say this is fine for young children, but for developmental reasons and future psychological concerns, young children are the LAST age group for which suppositories should be used.> > Personally, I would run away as fast as I could from a dr who prefers this choice. Tells me things about the dr I don't want to know. Am I being subtle enough???> > > Re: Re: Mthyl b12> > > Hi Peta> > We use transdermal DMPS. Different Doctors seem to have different preferences. Dr McCandless seems to be a big td fan and is anti suppositories, Dr Usman who we are with uses td, oral and IVs, others stick with oral. Don't know too many using suppositories, but I'm sure they work fine with some kids.> > Not something I would like to try.....> > Tina> > > peta_catherine wrote:> Thanks Tina> my friends son is hyper sensitive to everything. She is so exhausted > she doesn't manage to read this site.> He also advised DMSA suppositories and said doesn't use transdermal > DMPS. Do you know anyone else who chelates with supps - our Charlie > is quite compliant but we couldn't get one in him.> Peta-> > > > -- In Autism Treatment , SIMON WOOD > wrote:> >> > Hi Peta> > > > We do high doses every other day (instead of evry 3rd day) - the > improvements just keep on coming. We give 7.2ml at the recommended > concentration of 25mg/ml, my son is a fairly skinny 7 year old.> > > > We have increased twice from our original dose. We have been on > MB12 for over 15 months now. Its wonderful stuff for us.> > > > Tina> > > > > > > > peta_catherine wrote:> > Hi> > A friend of mine recently saw Bock in New York and he recommended > > icreasing doses of mb12 up to 125mg. We have always stayed on > 25mg. Is > > anyone else increasing the amount of the dose and are there more > side > > effects?> > Thanks> > Peta> > > > > > > > > > > > DISCLAIMER> > No information contained in this post is to be construed as > medical advice. If you need medical advice, please seek it from a > suitably qualified practitioner.> > > > Quote
Guest guest Posted March 7, 2006 Report Posted March 7, 2006 In a message dated 06/03/2006 19:06:31 GMT Standard Time, peta_catherine@... writes: don't know why this dr suggested suppositories. My friend is having such a bad time - she went to Holland and spent £1500 on tests but no advice and no chelation and now she has gone to New York and still feels in the dark. Our dr has such a long waiting list she can't wait 11/2 years. The trouble is that it is easy to quickly lose confidence in dr's. She went all the wat to NY and he didn't answer her questions! >>>Personally I think she would have been better to have stayed int he UK and seen Muscroft in Chester................................. This must be so upsetting for her and confusing, was this Dr Bock? Mandi x Quote
Guest guest Posted March 7, 2006 Report Posted March 7, 2006 Thanks Tina, I have forwarded your reply onto my friend. I think having a doctor you can talk to is so important. Our dr has an autistic son himself and I think that makes him much more aware of how desparate we all feel sometimes. I will get her to join this site - you are all so helpful Thanks again Peta- -- In Autism Treatment , SIMON WOOD <simon_tinawood@...> wrote: > > Hi Peta > > Biomed is very confusing at first, but your friend needs to read as much as possible and use online resources to get a basic understanding of how it fits together. > > www.treatingautism.com has a great list of online resources in the links section, and also gives the basics of biomed. Children with Starving Brains by Dr McCandless is a good book, if a bit heavy going the first read through. Groups like this one are fantastic - although I know its hard to find the time to do everything! > > We did a fairly standard order of treatments I think > > 1. Heal the gut as much as possible - take out foods the child is intolerant to, reduce greatly or eliminate processed sugar, treat yeast overgrowth, bacteria, parasites, take probiotics to keep the good bugs in charge. > > 2. Improve the childs nutritional status - Brainchild Vitamins and Minerals have been great for both my kids (one ASD, one NT but with a few sensory quirks), get in the fatty acids. Use testing to normalise vits, mins and fatty acids. Try digestive enzymes - we use Houston - these increase absorption from foods and for us gave the 'happy child' effect even though we are on a strict diet. > > 3. Move onto the more advanced treatments eg MB12, LDN, chelation. BUT Remember - go slow and let one settle down before moving onto another. We took 6 months to work up to full dose on chelation, but we got there in the end. Its not a race. > > In the end, as a parent you need to work with the Doctor, I for example have always used natural yeast treaments and declined the prescription treatments - but we got yeast under control fairly early by totally eliminating sugar for a year. I wouldn't do IVs or suppositories - but again that is cos my son is doing really well with td. Don't be afraid to give your opinions and ask questions if you don't understand. A good Dr will want to work with you. > > In the end it all becomes clear - we started the diet 4 1/2 years ago.... makes me feel really old!! > > Good luck to your friend, Peta. Get her to watch the recovered kids video on treatingautism, and also read the stories of hope cos they give parents stories at different stages in biomed. And as Mandi says...its a marathon noit a sprint!! > > Tina > > > > > > peta_catherine <peta_catherine@...> wrote: > I don't know why this dr suggested suppositories. My friend is > having such a bad time - she went to Holland and spent £1500 on > tests but no advice and no chelation and now she has gone to New > York and still feels in the dark. Our dr has such a long waiting > list she can't wait 11/2 years. The trouble is that it is easy to > quickly lose confidence in dr's. She went all the wat to NY and he > didn't answer her questions! > I feel somehow responsible because I've got her into the bio- medical > stuff. > Thanks for your replie's > Peta > > > > > > > -- In Autism Treatment , " Cochran " > wrote: > > > > Suppositories are not something you want to do, unless there is NO > other option. Without getting too graphic, you can set up a Lot of > problems, especially if the child is young, by administering > medications rectally. > > > > I have heard some people say this is fine for young children, but > for developmental reasons and future psychological concerns, young > children are the LAST age group for which suppositories should be > used. > > > > Personally, I would run away as fast as I could from a dr who > prefers this choice. Tells me things about the dr I don't want to > know. Am I being subtle enough??? > > > > > > Re: Re: Mthyl b12 > > > > > > Hi Peta > > > > We use transdermal DMPS. Different Doctors seem to have > different preferences. Dr McCandless seems to be a big td fan and > is anti suppositories, Dr Usman who we are with uses td, oral and > IVs, others stick with oral. Don't know too many using > suppositories, but I'm sure they work fine with some kids. > > > > Not something I would like to try..... > > > > Tina > > > > > > peta_catherine > wrote: > > Thanks Tina > > my friends son is hyper sensitive to everything. She is so > exhausted > > she doesn't manage to read this site. > > He also advised DMSA suppositories and said doesn't use > transdermal > > DMPS. Do you know anyone else who chelates with supps - our > Charlie > > is quite compliant but we couldn't get one in him. > > Peta- > > > > > > > > -- In Autism Treatment , SIMON WOOD > > wrote: > > > > > > Hi Peta > > > > > > We do high doses every other day (instead of evry 3rd day) - > the > > improvements just keep on coming. We give 7.2ml at the > recommended > > concentration of 25mg/ml, my son is a fairly skinny 7 year old. > > > > > > We have increased twice from our original dose. We have been > on > > MB12 for over 15 months now. Its wonderful stuff for us. > > > > > > Tina > > > > > > > > > > > > peta_catherine wrote: > > > Hi > > > A friend of mine recently saw Bock in New York and he > recommended > > > icreasing doses of mb12 up to 125mg. We have always stayed > on > > 25mg. Is > > > anyone else increasing the amount of the dose and are there > more > > side > > > effects? > > > Thanks > > > Peta > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > DISCLAIMER > > > No information contained in this post is to be construed as > > medical advice. If you need medical advice, please seek it > from a > > suitably qualified practitioner. > > > > > > Quote
Guest guest Posted March 7, 2006 Report Posted March 7, 2006 In a message dated 08/03/2006 11:25:51 GMT Standard Time, peta_catherine@... writes: yes it was Dr Bock- do you know anything about him?he also said he wouldn't give DMPS cream 'cos he thinks it is ineffective. >>Jane phoned me last night - I remember her now, but I was in transit from Cambridge, I wrote her when I got home last night, I mail you off list Mandi x Quote
Guest guest Posted March 8, 2006 Report Posted March 8, 2006 Hi Mandi yes it was Dr Bock- do you know anything about him? he also said he wouldn't give DMPS cream 'cos he thinks it is ineffective. Peta-- - In Autism Treatment , Mum231ASD@... wrote: > > > In a message dated 06/03/2006 19:06:31 GMT Standard Time, > peta_catherine@... writes: > > don't know why this dr suggested suppositories. My friend is > having such a bad time - she went to Holland and spent £1500 on > tests but no advice and no chelation and now she has gone to New > York and still feels in the dark. Our dr has such a long waiting > list she can't wait 11/2 years. The trouble is that it is easy to > quickly lose confidence in dr's. She went all the wat to NY and he > didn't answer her questions! > > > > >>>Personally I think she would have been better to have stayed int he UK > and seen Muscroft in Chester................................. > > This must be so upsetting for her and confusing, was this Dr Bock? > > Mandi x > Quote
Guest guest Posted March 8, 2006 Report Posted March 8, 2006 Hi Peta, Your friend's story about dr Bock worries me :-). I am planning to see him in May as he is the easiest one I can get (travelling, short wait list..). I live in Dubai, btw. I am worried now because I want to see a doctor who can answers my questions and can't afford to waste lots of money :-). Do you mind sharing with me info on the doctor you have been seing ? Let me know if we need to discuss this offline of this group. thanks, Tetty > > > > Hi > > > > A friend of mine recently saw Bock in New York and he > > recommended > > > > icreasing doses of mb12 up to 125mg. We have always stayed > > on > > > 25mg. Is > > > > anyone else increasing the amount of the dose and are there > > more > > > side > > > > effects? > > > > Thanks > > > > Peta > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > DISCLAIMER > > > > No information contained in this post is to be construed as > > > medical advice. If you need medical advice, please seek it > > from a > > > suitably qualified practitioner. > > > > > > > > Quote
Guest guest Posted March 8, 2006 Report Posted March 8, 2006 Hi Tetty My e-mail is: andrew@... Peta- -- In Autism Treatment , " t_heradini " <t_heradini@...> wrote: > > Hi Peta, > > Your friend's story about dr Bock worries me :-). > > I am planning to see him in May as he is the easiest one I can get > (travelling, short wait list..). I live in Dubai, btw. > > I am worried now because I want to see a doctor who can answers my > questions and can't afford to waste lots of money :-). > > Do you mind sharing with me info on the doctor you have been seing ? > > Let me know if we need to discuss this offline of this group. > > > > thanks, > Tetty > > > > > > > > Hi > > > > > A friend of mine recently saw Bock in New York and he > > > recommended > > > > > icreasing doses of mb12 up to 125mg. We have always stayed > > > on > > > > 25mg. Is > > > > > anyone else increasing the amount of the dose and are there > > > more > > > > side > > > > > effects? > > > > > Thanks > > > > > Peta > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > DISCLAIMER > > > > > No information contained in this post is to be construed as > > > > medical advice. If you need medical advice, please seek it > > > from a > > > > suitably qualified practitioner. > > > > > > > > > > Quote
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