Training to failure

[Guest guest]

Hi there, lifters.

What a great web-forum this is. I check it out as often as I can.

Now to my question. I have been lifting for the past 14 months with

the goal of increasing my strength. I used the HIT training style

ending each set on reaching muscle failure. The workouts were brief,

hard and infrequent. My strength plateaued after the initial gains and

now I feel it's training to failure which is making too much demands

on neuromuscular system. Now since the worlds strongest men dont

train to failure I felt that I should give the " lower intensity " workouts a go.

Doing HIT was simple...reach your target reps and then

add some weight. It's not so simple in these non-failure systems. How

do I know that I have progressed? And how do you manage the

volume/intensity ratio? We all (except Joe Weider) know that volume

and intensity have an inverse relation.

And what's the deal with failure? Does it do anything for strength or

endurance hypertrophy or whatever?

Any thoughts on this " weighty " subject will be welcomed.

Regards,

Arjun Kalbag

Mumbai India

[Guest guest]

> And what's the deal with failure? Does it do anything for strength or

> endurance hypertrophy or whatever?

Training to the point of muscular failure is not necessary if the goal is to

increase strength. A recent study showed greater increases in squat strength

and jumping height following an eight-week training program in subjects

using multiple sets not taken to failure.

More details are here:

http://www.thefactsaboutfitness.com/research/fail.htm

Sanborn, K., Boros, R., Hruby, J., Schilling, B., O', H.S., ,

R.L., Hoke, T., Stone, M.E., & Stone, M.H. (2000). Short-term performance

effects of weight training with multiple sets not to failure vs. a single

set to failure in women. Journal of Strength & Conditioning Research, 14,

328-331

Christian Finn

London, England

http://www.thefactsaboutfitness.com/

[Guest guest]

Ken O'Neill wrote:

I appreciate Bill Pearl's sage advise on training to failure:

introducing the notion of failure into your training introduces it into

your mind, in the long run producing failure as your training outcome.

-----

Ken,

Bill Pearl sure knew a thing or too about physique and strength development

didn't he. The fact that he won the Mr U championship (in his 40s!) is a lesson

to those who think it can't be done if you are drug free, a vegetarianand/or

don't train to failure.

At the very least, failuremaximizes the fatigue effect of a given workload. It's

interesting that every " hardgainer " I've ever met thought that was a good thing,

and was an absolute zealot about going to failure. They're usually willing to

try every known exercise, but rest pausing or stopping short of failureis out of

the question - even as a change up.

Maybe someday the fitness-fatigue paradigm will become accepted wisdom....

Regards,

Plisk

Excelsior Sports

Shelton CT

www.excelsiorsports.com

Prepare To Be A Champion!

[Guest guest]

1. The word began to spread nationally. Oliva became associated

with Arthur Jone and Nautilus and stayed for a few years. (Later to his

regret, he wished he had stayed longer as he personally claimed that he was in

his best shape.) had been simply played as a pawn by Joe Weider years

removed (including the reports that his winning Mr. Olympia checks had

bounced - allegedly). was looking for someone that would at least cut

him a break. The two legends finally met in New York, as Arthur was meeting

with Muscle Magazine Magnate Dan Lurie. Arthur took an immediate liking to

the Cuban Superman and convinced him to come to Lake Helen. It was there

where trained, but reports had it that just before the 1971 Mr Universe

the training went awry (inconsistency due to being sick) according to Kim

Wood who was with him. Meanwhile, Bill Pearl was featured in a series of

articles written in IronMan Magazine titled “The Bill Pearl Story,†and was

evidently being groomed for the title. The NABBA Mr. Universe was a

showcase so to speak, an exhibition of sort, seemingly the platform for

Pearl’s

exit from the Bodybuilding Dais. Pearl had years of experience competing in

the NABBA Contests and had previously been treated favorably. In another

ironic twist, the behind the scenes financier of the NABBA Mr. Universe

Contest was the one and only Jack Feather. Heidenstam was the master head

of NABBA and the Mr. Universe Contest had pitted Zane, Bill Pearl,

and . During the prejudging it was seen by Arthur that the comparisons

were not side by side. The reason, according to Arthur, is that "

literally dwarfed Pearl, " (in spite of the glitch in 's training) who

was eventually judged the " winner. " According to Arthur, it was a complete

farce. Feather meanwhile had a home in London where NABBA was hosted and,

where Arthur stayed later that night, received a phone call. The phone rang

and it was Heidenstam. Jack had listen on the other line and

said: “I’m sorry about what happened today, Jack and I can assure you

that it never happened before, and that it will never happen again. To which

Feather said:†It will never happen again, " and promptly hung up the phone.

Feather saw where the cards were stacked and immediately withdrew his

association with NABBA. (Note: this author was not present at this show and

reported what had occurred according to and references in IronMan

Magazine.)

Landau

Aventura, Florida

_www.exercisefraud.com_ (http://www.exercisefraud.com)

In a message dated 5/28/2010 1:42:13 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,

kayoneill@... writes:

I appreciate Bill Pearl's sage advise on training to failure: introducing

the notion of failure into your training introduces it into your mind, in

the long run producing failure as your training outcome.

didn't much like Pearl, writing a scathing, childish, and just plain

mean spirited parody entitled something like " Pill Bearl " - Peary Rader

refused to publish it.

Why? 's nautilus boy wonder, Olivia, juiced up, was defeated

by Pearl in the Mr Universe NABBA, 1971. Bill was 41, a vegetarian by then,

and in incredible shape. , never a good sport, took the lost

personally (shows something about his arrested social and psychological

maturation).

best

Ken O'Neill

Wimberley, Texas

>

> Colleagues,

>

> I think we can expect the HIT jedis to respond to this latest study the

same way they have dealt with others: by selectively citing any aspect of

it that can be used to support their methods, no matter how marginal.

>

> They'll disregard the larger finding and context. Any attempt to point

these out will be deemed irrelevant.

>

> The spin usually makes for a good sideshow as long as you don't take it

seriously. Anyway let's keep our focus on what matters...

>

>

> Regards,

>

> Plisk

> Excelsior Sports

> Shelton CT

> www.excelsiorsports.com

> Prepare To Be A Champion!

>

> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>

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[Guest guest]

Hi ,

I don't think things will change until the definitions of failure are

clear and intensity also. I know C believes in his definition,

but I can't relate to it completely because intensity and failure

haven't been quantified.

I've been an obsessed observer and participant in weight training for

at least 50 years. I've built my own research equipment and asked my

participants to go to failure. I offered no more encouragement in a

never ending attempt to control bias and experimenter differences. I

can say without pause that intensity and failure mean different things

to different people -- as reflected in EMG and some primitive GSR and

most of all by my un-measurable " empathy " for lack of a better term.

The answer is there somewhere right at our fingertips?

Jerry Telle

Lakewood CO USA

On May 29, 2010, at 8:11 AM, Plisk wrote:

> Bill Pearl sure knew a thing or too about physique and strength

> development didn't he. The fact that he won the Mr U championship

> (in his 40s!) is a lesson to those who think it can't be done if you

> are drug free, a vegetarianand/or don't train to failure.

>

> At the very least, failuremaximizes the fatigue effect of a given

> workload. It's interesting that every " hardgainer " I've ever met

> thought that was a good thing, and was an absolute zealot about

> going to failure. They're usually willing to try every known

> exercise, but rest pausing or stopping short of failureis out of the

> question - even as a change up.

>

> Maybe someday the fitness-fatigue paradigm will become accepted

> wisdom....