Re: Floral Waxes vs. Concrete

[Guest guest]

At 12:47 PM 12/9/2006, you wrote:

>Excuse my ignorance, but what is the difference between floral wax and

>concrete?

>I am considering getting some of the delicious floral waxes offered by

>and Marcia, but want to know if they can be put into good use

>for perfume as opposed to soap and candles), as most of my perfumes

>are alcohol based.

>Would you recommend using them in solid perfumes?

>And how concentrated are they?

Hi Ayala -- again

We're both online on this early Saturday afternoon, me avoiding

chores, just fiddling around ;-)

A concrete is created during the first step of scent extraction, with

a solvent being used. Most concretes are waxy, thick, sticky, tacky,

to use some descriptive terms. Then the absolute is extracted from

the concrete with alcohol. If you search the archives, or maybe I put

it in the Files section, Butch gives a good breakdown of the processes.

Floral wax is what's left after the absolute extraction process. The

floral waxes still have a lot of scent in them, and yes, they can be

used for solid perfumes. I wouldn't smush and tincture them for

extraction for an alcohol perfume, I'd use the concretes that way,

but yes, I have used them in solid perfumes. Wonderful stuff. Chris

and Marcia source great floral waxes, and I'd highly recommend them.

Anya McCoy

Anya's Garden of Natural Perfume http://anyasgarden.com

Artisan Natural Perfumers Guild http://artisannaturalperfumers.org

Natural Perfumers Chat Group

/

[Guest guest]

posted this on Oct. 20th, discussing floral waxes for use in

soaps, and I'm reposting it here for the soapers who recently joined,

and to answer a lot of questions that have come up about the waxes in general:

> Hi

Hi Holly,

> I have never used (or even seen!) floral waxes so am

> completley uninformed about their appearance, texture

> & consistency and useage.

I have a feeling you're not the only person here who has had either

little or no experience with the floral waxes and has questions about

them. That is why I asked & received your permission to answer this

e-mail on list ...

> I would be interested in trying some, especially

> of the rose, if it would work well for scenting my

> M & P soaps.

I'm glad to hear that. I think you'll enjoy using them. I find they open

an artist up to being able to add otherwise cost prohibitive precious

natural aromatics to their soaps, candles, etc ... They will work in

scenting soaps, but in general, I would recommend not necessarily using

them as the sole scenting material, but rather using them as a part of a

scent blend.

> Some of the other scents, I don't know what they

> are either. Could you give me some idea of what these scents are

> like?

Oh gosh, I hope someone who can describe scents better than I do will

jump in here to describe those scents (not necessarily them in the form

of the wax that I have, but just those smells in general! Well, here

goes .. I will sniff wax and type ..

Cassie : - Acacia - related to Mimosa - its warm and kind of sweet,

but not cloying like some florals. It also has a bit of an earthy and

spicy element .. almost a bit like some resins I use for making incense,

but more subtle. I'd even describe it as a bit green and woody ... it

would definitely bring out the sweetness in a blend but at the same time

give it some tenacity!

Frangipani: - fresh & floral (once again, not cloying), green and a

tiny bit spicy - an almost curry like hint ... Actually, it also has a

very slight fruity note that reminds me of a doll I had back in the

early 80's with fruit scented hair *lol*

Tuberose: - fruity, sweet, floral, warm, honeysuckle like. Not just a

fleeting top note, has some tenacity to it. I have found that tuberose

can be nice or, well, not so nice, and this one is very pleasant to my

nose Related to Narcissus.

> Violet Leaf - Violet leaf doesn't sound like it would smell like

> violet flowers, but if it does I'd likely be interested in trying it.

You are correct .. Violet Leaf does not smell like violet flowers. It

has a nice green, fresh, cucumber like scent.

Though, I have seen in the archives of this Natural Perfumery Group

a recipe from perfumer Terry Sterling for a Violet Flower Accord that

calls for Violet Leaf as one of the ingredients.

> What is the consistency like? When I think of wax, the only

> thing that comes to mind is parafin or beeswax consistencies.

Consistency varies with floral waxes - for example Jasmine grand. is a

soft, kind of sticky wax while Jasmine sambac is rock hard. Rose wax is

very hard, while Clary Sage is very soft and sticky - almost like taffy,

Tuberose is creamy and Frangipani is hard and crumbly ... etc ...

> Do the waxes retain any healing properties? Could

> they be used in healing salves or are they for

> scenting only?

They are a by-product of the absolute making process, which are created

with aromatic concretes made from solvents . For the most part concretes

and absolutes are used more for scent aesthetics (perfumery &

aromachology) than for aromatherapy.

Now as far as whether there are any non scent related benefits they may

impart ... Jeanne Rose does have an article on her web site about using

several floral waxes in cosmetics. She specifically mentions the

benefits of Cassie wax, especially in a variety of skin lightening and

anti-aging formulas. She also discusses Rose Wax, Narcissus Wax, etc ...

<http://www.jeannerose.net/articles/essential_flower_waxes.html>http://www.jeann\

erose.net/articles/essential_flower_waxes.html

> Would you have any idea of how much I would need to use

> for the same scenting effect of an essential oil? For example

> if I would normally use 1tsp of EO in a soap, would I need

> to use an equivalent amount of wax?

Marge gave some wonderful advice on here about using waxes some

months ago. She said that with soap making, generally speaking - 1 oz of

wax is = to 1/2 oz of absolute.

Recently I came across an old snippet in the archives from Anastasia

Crabtree where she mentioned using 1 oz of floral wax as part of her

blend for a 4 lb batch of soap ...

Obviously you'd have to adjust those numbers given above depending on

the odor intensity of your raw material (some waxes have a

fainter/stronger odor than others) and what you're looking to create,

but if you use them as a general guide, you can go play and have some

sort of direction to start with!

> Thanks very much for any help you can offer.

> Holly

I have a recipe on my web page for a body butter formulated with floral

wax.

<http://alittleolfactory.com/recipes.htm>http://alittleolfactory.com/recipes.htm

I hope to be posting some more recipes there soon - as time permits.

Also, DM's site Make Your Own Cosmetics

<http://makeyourowncosmetics.com/>http://makeyourowncosmetics.com/

<http://makeyourowncosmetics.com/search.asp> has several recipes

containing floral waxes.

I hope that info helped you and others out some!

*Smile*

Chris

Pre-Buy - Floral Waxes - 9 Varieties

Special Pricing Through October 30th!

<http://www.alittleolfactory.com/prebuys.htm>http://www.alittleolfactory.com/pre\

buys.htm

Anya McCoy

Anya's Garden of Natural Perfume http://anyasgarden.com

Artisan Natural Perfumers Guild http://artisannaturalperfumers.org

Natural Perfumers Chat Group

/

[Guest guest]

Ayala Sender <ayala@...> wrote: Excuse my ignorance, but what

is the difference between floral wax and

concrete?

Thanks!

Ayala Sender

Hi Ayala

This gives a good answer to your question

www.jeannerose.net/articles/essential_flower_waxes

best

Janita

Ps...... lovely lovely smelly blog..... congrats to all........A great year

for NP

Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.

[Guest guest]

> Hi Ayala

>

> This gives a good answer to your question

>

> www.jeannerose.net/articles/essential_flower_waxes

>

> best

> Janita

> Ps...... lovely lovely smelly blog..... congrats to all........A

great year for NP

>

Janita,

The link doesn't work for some reason. And when I go to the articles

it says they are forbidden...

Thanks!

Ayala

[Guest guest]

> Floral wax is what's left after the absolute extraction process. The

> floral waxes still have a lot of scent in them, and yes, they can be

> used for solid perfumes. I wouldn't smush and tincture them for

> extraction for an alcohol perfume, I'd use the concretes that way,

> but yes, I have used them in solid perfumes. Wonderful stuff. Chris

> and Marcia source great floral waxes, and I'd highly recommend them.

>

>

> Anya McCoy

> Anya's Garden of Natural Perfume http://anyasgarden.com

That's what I thought. I am still a bit surprised that there is

anything left after the absolutes are rendered. It's quite amazing how

much the plants want to give us!

I am very keen on experimenting with these, especially for bringing

the cost of solid perfumes down. I will be ordering these from Chris

and Marcia as soon as I get enough time to delve into the realm of

developing new products with new consistencies, and, well, get my scales!

Thanks for your help!

Ayala

www.AyalaMoriel.com

www.SmellyBlog.com

[Guest guest]

At 06:06 PM 12/9/2006, you wrote:

>Janita,

>The link doesn't work for some reason. And when I go to the articles

>it says they are forbidden...

Ayala

Here's the correct link -- it's in the repost of Chris' message I posted today.

http://www.jeannerose.net/articles/essential_flower_waxes.html

Anya McCoy

Anya's Garden of Natural Perfume http://anyasgarden.com

Artisan Natural Perfumers Guild http://artisannaturalperfumers.org

Natural Perfumers Community Group

/

[Guest guest]

Ayala Sender <ayala@...> wrote: ---

>

> This gives a good answer to your question

>

> www.jeannerose.net/articles/essential_flower_waxes.html

>

>>

Janita,

The link doesn't work for some reason. And when I go to the articles

it says they are forbidden...

Thanks!

Ayala

sorry Ayala got back from the cinema and thought I would try to see if I had got

it right..... try html at the end..... I got the same response as you.... hang

on I'll put this on save as draft and make sure again.

yep opens up but I noticed it

www.jeannerose.net/articles/essential_flower_waxes.html

try that and if all that fails ...... go to jeanne rose website and it is

under articles....

good luck :-)

Janita

---------------------------------

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[Guest guest]

> The link doesn't work for some reason. And when I go to the articles

> it says they are forbidden...<

It was given to you with the end missing:

http://www.jeannerose.net/articles/essential_flower_waxes.html

Sue Apito

Webmaster, www.jeannerose.net www.aromaticplantproject.com

P.S. I retired www.ctherb.com so switched my ID & email