Guest guest Posted November 23, 2006 Report Posted November 23, 2006 At 04:16 PM 11/21/2006, you wrote: >crystal > > >Hi Crystal >I can certainly envision how rum would be good for resins and trees >and you mention absolutes? What ones? I cannot imagine a floral >with Rum.....but hey well yes I can!!! exotica! > > The cane you mention for your alcohol from mexico...... sugar > cane? or bamboo? both are canes...... one can make alcohol from > sugar beet.....has been used for herbal tinctureing...... > > mahalo and peace Hi Janita -- it is sugar cane. Fuels (literally, sometimes!) the economies of many Caribbean nations, like Puerto Rico and Cuba. Great rum. Fuel for cars, too. There is no alcohol made from bamboo, AFAIK, it is not high in sugars, which are needed for the alcohol. Anya McCoy Anya's Garden of Natural Perfume http://anyasgarden.com Artisan Natural Perfumers Guild http://artisannaturalperfumers.org Natural Perfumers Chat Group / Quote
Guest guest Posted November 26, 2006 Report Posted November 26, 2006 > Hi Janita -- it is sugar cane. Fuels (literally, sometimes!) the > economies of many Caribbean nations, like Puerto Rico and Cuba. > Great rum. Fuel for cars, too. There is no alcohol made from bamboo, > AFAIK, it is not high in sugars, which are needed for the alcohol. > > > Anya McCoy I'm wondering if the cane alcohol is just the raw unprocessed beginnings of rum, as rum is made from sugar cane. Maybe the cane alcohol is made from fermented and distilled straight cane juice rather than molasses? From About.com: " The use of sugar cane distinguishes rum from other liquors. The sweet juices from the sugar cane are turned into molasses and this syrup is then fermented into rum. Rum is then aged in casks; the type of cask used is the determining factor on the color of rum produced in the end. " Also, is there a beet alcohol? If so, might it be used in NP? (Possibly harking back to Jitterbug Perfume ever so slightly... grin) Regards, Andrine Quote
Guest guest Posted November 27, 2006 Report Posted November 27, 2006 About sugar cane alcohol: I live in Brasil, as you know and here even the cars are moved by alcohol ( so you can imagine the people...). There is no way you can use sugar alcohol to make perfume. It smells quite strongly like cachaça (local drink), I tried many times to take that awful smell outo of it, No way. Maybe rum would be better, but raw cane alcohol will spoil the perfume. I use it for cleaning, desinfection, to take out smell from used bottles, things like that. But if you really want to give it a try, you will have to put much more EO to scent it. Ane* --------------------------------- Novidade no : receba alertas de novas mensagens no seu celular. Registre seu aparelho agora! Quote
Guest guest Posted November 27, 2006 Report Posted November 27, 2006 About sugar cane alcohol: I live in Brasil, as you know and here even the cars are moved by alcohol ( so you can imagine the people...). There is no way you can use sugar alcohol to make perfume. It smells quite strongly like cachaça (local drink), I tried many times to take that awful smell outo of it, No way. Maybe rum would be better, but raw cane alcohol will spoil the perfume. I use it for cleaning, desinfection, to take out smell from used bottles, things like that. But if you really want to give it a try, you will have to put much more EO to scent it. Ane* --------------------------------- Novidade no : receba alertas de novas mensagens no seu celular. Registre seu aparelho agora! Quote
Guest guest Posted November 27, 2006 Report Posted November 27, 2006 There is no way you can use sugar alcohol to make perfume. It smells quite strongly like cachaça (local drink), I tried many times to take that awful smell outo of it, No way. Maybe rum would be better, but raw cane alcohol will spoil the perfume. I use it for cleaning, desinfection, to take out smell from used bottles, things like that. But if you really want to give it a try, you will have to put much more EO to scent it. Ane* greetings Ane and NP, actually, i have made a bunch of perfumes with cane alcohol. the cane alcohol i used was from mexico. it was approx 194proof. i do not know how cachaca smells (nor have i tasted it :>}) perhaps the cane alcohol made in brasil smells differently than that made in mexico. maybe there is an additive? or the processing is different? what i used was similar smelling to rum but with less aroma. it was good for some things but not for all. aromatic cheers, crystal Quote
Guest guest Posted November 27, 2006 Report Posted November 27, 2006 > About sugar cane alcohol: > There is no way you can use sugar alcohol to make perfume. > It smells quite strongly like cachaça (local drink), I tried many > times to take that awful smell outo of it, No way. Maybe rum would > be better, but raw cane alcohol will spoil the perfume. I wonder if passing it through a Britta water filter or some sort of organic, clean charcoal like we discussed doing with Everclear would work..... If anyone tries this, let us know how it turns out. Andrine Quote
Guest guest Posted November 28, 2006 Report Posted November 28, 2006 I agree with you, Crystal, It can be used with strong scents that surpass the alcohol smell, or include it as part of a blend. Then it is ok. Ane* --------------------------------- Novidade no : receba alertas de novas mensagens no seu celular. Registre seu aparelho agora! Quote
Guest guest Posted November 28, 2006 Report Posted November 28, 2006 At 02:58 PM 11/27/2006, you wrote: >About sugar cane alcohol: > I live in Brasil, as you know and here even > the cars are moved by alcohol ( so you can imagine the people...). > There is no way you can use sugar alcohol to make perfume. > It smells quite strongly like cachaça (local > drink), I tried many times to take that awful > smell outo of it, No way. Maybe rum would be > better, but raw cane alcohol will spoil the > perfume. I use it for cleaning, desinfection, > to take out smell from used bottles, things like that. > But if you really want to give it a try, you > will have to put much more EO to scent it. > Ane* Why don't you just look for perfumers alcohol, or it may be called industrial alcohol? I'm sure you can get it there. Get undenatured, it's the best, organic undenatured even better. Tell them you want at least 190 proof ethyl alcohol. Look at the alcohol info in the Files section, it may help you when you speak to someone. If you have to buy denatured, you'll get a feel for what is used by the File. Anya McCoy Anya's Garden of Natural Perfume http://anyasgarden.com Artisan Natural Perfumers Guild http://artisannaturalperfumers.org Natural Perfumers Chat Group / Quote
Guest guest Posted November 29, 2006 Report Posted November 29, 2006 > How can I get a scent that stays all day long? What can I use > instead? What should I try? > Is it ok to use synthetic fixation in a natural perfume? > Please , give me a hint. > Expectantly > Ane* Hello Ane, There are many non-animal natural fixatives that you could use. Natural Perfume is composed of all natural ingredients. So, while you could use a synthetic fixative if you chose to, the resulting product would no longer be a natural perfume. I've found in the past that using synthetics can cause some REALLY funky results down the road. As in months later. I once made a batch of soap that smelled heavenly at first. A couple of months later, the fragrance oils had reacted and the soaps smelled like I dredged them through the kitty box. Nothing like singin' in the shower and then being assaulted by eau-de-cat-box and then learning where it's coming from -- you're washin' in it... GAK! That got me to swear off synthetics for life. Nothing like negative olfactive training to reinforce a point! Some non-animal fixatives to try: ambrette seed benzoin costus frankincense labdanum oakmoss absolute patchouli peru balsam tonka bean vanilla absolute vetiver There are many others that are also fun, but I listed the more easily obtained ones -- and most of these are fairly affordable. Have fun! Andrine Quote
Guest guest Posted November 30, 2006 Report Posted November 30, 2006 Edited to correct top post.... > Hello Ane, > > There are many non-animal natural fixatives that you could use. > Natural Perfume is composed of all natural ingredients. So, while > you could use a synthetic fixative if you chose to, the resulting > product would no longer be a natural perfume. I've found in the > past that using synthetics can cause some REALLY funky results down > the road. As in months later. I once made a batch of soap that > smelled heavenly at first. A couple of months later, the fragrance > oils had reacted and the soaps smelled like I dredged them through > the kitty box. Nothing like singin' in the shower and then being > assaulted by eau-de-cat-box and then learning where it's coming > from -- you're washin' in it... GAK! That got me to swear off > synthetics for life. Nothing like negative olfactive training to > reinforce a point! > > Some non-animal fixatives to try: > ambrette seed > benzoin > costus > frankincense > labdanum > oakmoss absolute > patchouli > peru balsam > tonka bean > vanilla absolute > vetiver > > There are many others that are also fun, but I listed the more > easily obtained ones -- and most of these are fairly affordable. > > Have fun! > Andrine Andrine, I don't know how to thank you enough. Pretty good advice, because I was ready to spoil my combination with synthetic musk. Many thanks for making me avoid it. I made a start of this solid perfume with the heart notes and I was very worried not to spoil this beginning of spikenard and Ocimum basilicum (basilico foglia di lattuga - italian basil)insfused oil that went so well. I was going to prepare a combination for the top notes today, waiting for any answer from the group about which base to choose to use as fixative. I am going to try one of these you told me then. Have a beautiful morning Thankfully Ane* Quote
Guest guest Posted November 30, 2006 Report Posted November 30, 2006 > > How can I get a scent that stays all day long? What can I use > > instead? What should I try? > > Is it ok to use synthetic fixation in a natural perfume? > > Please , give me a hint. > > Expectantly > > Ane* > > > Hello Ane, > > There are many non-animal natural fixatives that you could use. > > > Some non-animal fixatives to try: > ambrette seed > benzoin > costus > frankincense > labdanum > oakmoss absolute > patchouli > peru balsam > tonka bean > vanilla absolute > vetiver > If you are only interested in non-animal fixatives, you can try all those listed above, but they will impart more than fixative qualities to your perfume, they are all very strong and would be better used as a base note. Cabreuva, Copaiba Balsam,(my spelling may be a tad off) even Galbanum will add a drier range of fixative properties. It just depends on what kind of fragrance you are creating. and if you are relying on your base note to fix your perfume. If you want a fixative that does not intrude so much on your formula, make a tincture of clarified butter, and add it at a rate of 10% to your carrier. I never rely on a base note to fix a perfume. I always fix the carrier. Doing this allows for a lighter hand when building a perfume. Plus it allows for more flexibility in how you choose to construct your base note. Many natural perfumes have base note overload. It's ok for a concept scent, but can be a bit overbearing otherwise. You can also use glycerine. Animal or vegetable, but in a smaller amount, at around 3%. Some people are allergic to glycerines, so test it out first to make sure you are not using too much. But I wouldn't worry too much, glycerine is a common ingredient in natural creams and lotions. Glycerine has humectant properties, which means that it will hold the moisture (as well as your scent) to the skin longer. Best, Z... Zz's Petals Parfume Moderne http://www.zzspetals.com Quote
Guest guest Posted November 30, 2006 Report Posted November 30, 2006 > <Snip> >I never rely on a base note to fix a perfume. I always fix the >carrier. Doing this allows for a lighter hand when building a perfume. >Plus it allows for more flexibility in how you choose to construct >your base note. Many natural perfumes have base note overload. It's ok >for a concept scent, but can be a bit overbearing otherwise. >You can also use glycerine. Animal or vegetable, but in a smaller >amount, at around 3%. Some people are allergic to glycerines, so test >it out first to make sure you are not using too much. But I wouldn't >worry too much, glycerine is a common ingredient in natural creams >and lotions. Glycerine has humectant properties, which means that it >will hold the moisture (as well as your scent) to the skin longer. >Best, Z... >Zz's Petals Parfume Moderne >http://www.zzspetals.com > Z, This is indeed a new concept to me! I thought a natural perfume is part alcohol and part aromatics with top, middle and base notes. Shows how ignorant I am ( In any event, I have my 1st experiment with 70% alcohol and 30% aromatics. Can I simply add glycerin to this to make the base note lighten the base notes or do I use distill water??? It would also be interesting to a ignoranewbie (just made this up for myself) if you can explain in detail a little more of this method. thanks in advance regards, Poh Yee _________________________________________________________________ Get the latest Windows Live Messenger 8.1 Beta version. Join now. http://ideas.live.com Quote
Guest guest Posted November 30, 2006 Report Posted November 30, 2006 > <Snip> > > >I never rely on a base note to fix a perfume. I always fix the > >carrier. Doing this allows for a lighter hand when building a perfume. > >Plus it allows for more flexibility in how you choose to construct > >your base note. Many natural perfumes have base note overload. It's ok > >for a concept scent, but can be a bit overbearing otherwise. > >You can also use glycerine. Animal or vegetable, but in a smaller > >amount, at around 3%. Some people are allergic to glycerines, so test > >it out first to make sure you are not using too much. But I wouldn't > >worry too much, glycerine is a common ingredient in natural creams > >and lotions. Glycerine has humectant properties, which means that it > >will hold the moisture (as well as your scent) to the skin longer. > >Best, Z... > >Zz's Petals Parfume Moderne > >http://www.zzspetals.com > > > > Z, > > This is indeed a new concept to me! I thought a natural perfume is part > alcohol and part aromatics with top, middle and base notes. Shows how > ignorant I am ( > > In any event, I have my 1st experiment with 70% alcohol and 30% aromatics. > Can I simply add glycerin to this to make the base note lighten the base > notes or do I use distill water??? > > It would also be interesting to a ignoranewbie (just made this up for > myself) if you can explain in detail a little more of this method. thanks in > advance > > regards, > Poh Yee > Nothing has changed. You will always build your scent with components of top, middle and base notes. You are missing the point. No you do not lighten what you have already made. You are not lightening anything by fixing your carrier. When I say fix the carrier I am not talking about the amount that you would use with just one perfume, I am talking about the carrier in general. The alcohol that you use to batch out your perfumes. And no again, you can not use water to lighten a base note. If you have created something that you don't like or is too heavy, start over and try again. You can use the same things, just not as much. A rule of thumb is, one part top note, three parts middle note and two parts base note. If you are composing your bawse notes with heavy agressive oils, use less or use them in dilution. You can even substitute one with something in the middle to base range. Think of the base note as the glue that holds your scent together and allows the top and heart notes to linger longer. Think of a fixed carrier as a bit of extra insurance that it will stay that way a little longer. To fix a carrier alcohol. Choose your amount. If you are adding glycerine, use no more than 3% of the total. Use this alcohol when you are diluting your formula. Seperate the thinking in your mind. You have a base note, and you have a carrier alcohol with fixative properties. They are two seperate things. Z... Zz's Petals Parfume Moderne http://www.zzspetals.com Quote
Guest guest Posted November 30, 2006 Report Posted November 30, 2006 > If you want a fixative that does not intrude so much on your formula, > make a tincture of clarified butter, and add it at a rate of 10% to > your carrier. Will the clarified butter tincture add a butter note to the perfume at this dilution. Would it work to use an organic packaged ghee or is it necessary to clarify the butter yourself? Thanks so much for this idea! > > Quote
Guest guest Posted November 30, 2006 Report Posted November 30, 2006 > > > > If you want a fixative that does not intrude so much on your formula, > > make a tincture of clarified butter, and add it at a rate of 10% to > > your carrier. > > > > Will the clarified butter tincture add a butter note to the perfume at > this dilution. Would it work to use an organic packaged ghee or is it > necessary to clarify the butter yourself? Thanks so much for this idea! > > > I make my own from salt free organic butter. But you can use ghee. Just make sure it isn't one of those imported ones with a lot of additives. Or one that has had the butter scent removed (like a fractionated coconut has no scent).. The butter tincture isn't as buttery as a Butter Co2, of which I only have samples. and to tincture butter co2 at those rates of use, would be very costly. At the rates that I gave earlier, the carrier alcohol with butter tincture is just slightly aromatic when applied neat to the skin. It doesn't impart a distinct butter note to your perfume. You would have to use butter in your actual formula (not your carrier) at larger concentrations to get a true butter note. I am currently clarifying a stick 1/2 c. butter and adding to 500ml (16oz) organic 190 proof alcohol. It reacts much the same ways as an alcohol wash for an Enfleurage, keep swirling it around in the jar, Eventually the butter solids break down, and look like little white pearls, but never blend with the alcohol, so it is easy to just pour it off to a new container when you are ready to use it. For me the whole idea of fixing a carrier alcohol with something like butter or even glycerine is to add an extra element of longevity to the final fragrance. and at the same time keeping it as neutral as possible. There are commercial fixatives like Glucam that do this, but most natural perfumers will not use it. It is derived from a corn base, but is altered in the lab. Glucam also has humectant properties similar to glycerine which hold moisture to the skin making the fragrance last longer. Which is also true for butter, but to a lesser degree because you are working with a tincture of butter and not the full strength butter itself. Best, Z.... Zz's Petals Parfume Moderne http://www.zzspetals.com > > > > > Quote
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