Re: White Witch Crisis!

[Guest guest]

Ruth Ruane <ruth@...> wrote: Am I trying to do the impossible?

Here's the story...well I am still waiting on the last batch of

supplies from Eden Botanicals. Anyway everything is ready, the

formulas, the packaging, even the editorial for Gods sake, (waiting

for publication TG) and I have all my customers hyped up and ready to

receive! Well my idea was/is to make solid perfume sticks.

So today (using an experimental formula I didn't want to throw away

because smelled sort of like daffodils) I started off using a basic

solid lotion bar recipe, (beeswax, shea butter, almond oil) and

perfumed it with 15% perfume. It set but when I tried to cut it, it

started to get all squidgy! Not suitable for my plan at all.

So I reduced the oils, had to keep the perfume concentration the same

(otherwise what would be the point?) and tried again, different blend,

this time I used Mandy's recipe that she wrote in her workbook rather

than trying to come up with a quick formula off the bat! plus I don't

want to risk wasting any of the oils I have set aside for my three new

perfumes.

I was sure the second go would do it, as it looked and felt so hard

when it was set, but when I tried to cut it it started to squidge again.

I am starting to think that it is because of the strong concentration

of perfume to oils/beeswax/sheabutter.

So my third go, I did throw together a blend off the bat, not very

nice! (more of a scribble than a sketch!)

and I went again, this time beeswax, oil and perfume.

Again I ask, am I attempting the impossible, how do I stop the sticks

being squidgy. To give you the idea of level of squidginess, when I

press a stick on my wrist to rub some on, it just smushes!!!

I think I saw someones website from the group who sells perfume

sticks, with shea butter beeswax and oil.

What am I doing wrong?

Ruth

http://www.whitewitch.ie

Hi Ruth

Are your proportions for beeswax enough? Just a thought..... you could try

with adding a bit more of that. I am not sure about Shea maybe someone else can

chime in on this . You may need more than you think. (think of the candlesticks)

I seem to remember when I used to make up my own face cream I used vit E, and

beeswax and depending on the amount of beeswax I put in depended on the

stiffness.

I hope that helps..... anybody else got any thoughts

Janita

ascent

www.hayspace.co.uk

Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.

[Guest guest]

On 03/12/06, Ruth Ruane <ruth@...> wrote:

> Am I trying to do the impossible?

<Snip>

>> Again I ask, am I attempting the impossible, how do I stop the sticks

> being squidgy. To give you the idea of level of squidginess, when I

> press a stick on my wrist to rub some on, it just smushes!!!

>

> What am I doing wrong?

>

> Ruth

Hi Ruth

You *may* be better waiting for someone who actually makes stuff

before listening to me (!) But at a guess - you may need to use more

bees wax. I say this coz one of the only times I did get active in

making things I managed to get a pot of stuff so *solid* you had to

scrap your nails in it to get anything out!. When I re-checked the

formula I'd put in over three times as much bees wax as needed.

Likewise, my one attempt at a body butter turned into a tent

reproofing candidate (this gifted inability to read formula's is why I

*don't* make things....LOL!)

LLx

[Guest guest]

> > Am I trying to do the impossible?

> <Snip>

> >> Again I ask, am I attempting the impossible, how do I stop the sticks

> > being squidgy. To give you the idea of level of squidginess, when I

> > press a stick on my wrist to rub some on, it just smushes!!!

> >

> > What am I doing wrong?

> >

> > Ruth

>

> Hi Ruth

> You *may* be better waiting for someone who actually makes stuff

> before listening to me (!) But at a guess - you may need to use more

> bees wax. I say this coz one of the only times I did get active in

> making things I managed to get a pot of stuff so *solid* you had to

> scrap your nails in it to get anything out!. When I re-checked the

> formula I'd put in over three times as much bees wax as needed.

> Likewise, my one attempt at a body butter turned into a tent

> reproofing candidate (this gifted inability to read formula's is why I

> *don't* make things....LOL!)

> LLx

>

OK Thanks Liz you gave me hope, So i went in and remelted the 2nd

batch, I added 50mls extra beeswax so I am waiting to see what

happens, if it works, the only thing is now the concentration of my

perfume is less. What is the ratio perfume to carrier for a

perfume/solid perfume?

Ruth

[Guest guest]

--

>

> Hi Ruth

>

> Are your proportions for beeswax enough?

My proportions were for batch no 2: 75mls beeswax, 75mls shea butter,

10.50mls sweet almond oil and 28 mls perfume!

What does anybody think?

Just a thought..... you could try with adding a bit more of that.

Well I just remelted and added 50mls more beeswax, you guys gave me

some hope.

I am not sure about Shea maybe someone else can chime in on this . You

may need more than you think. (think of the candlesticks)

I may need more *what* than I think? shea butter? or perfume?

> I seem to remember when I used to make up my own face cream I used

vit E, and beeswax and depending on the amount of beeswax I put in

depended on the stiffness.

>

> I hope that helps

..... anybody else got any thoughts

>

> Janita

> ascent

> www.hayspace.co.uk

It helps surely Janita! Thanks!

Just knowing that NP is there at a time like this helps. I know I

won't sleep tonight until I have it right!

Ruth

[Guest guest]

> Am I trying to do the impossible?

> Ruth

> http://www.whitewitch.ie

>

Hi Ruth,

Definitely not impossible, maybe improbable with the formulations your

working with, but that's easily tweaked. I haven't made soild perfume

yet, but I make lots of ointments, creams, lotions etc

The ratio between beeswax and oil is crucial to consistency. I have not

found that essential oils substancially affect consistency, but they

have to be counted as fluid part, especially if used in larger amounts.

Another factor is the cool down time. I have made larger batches of

ointment before, only to have the top rock hard with extra wax, while

the middle was too soft. The reason for that was, that the cool down

took too long for the whole. Smaller amounts cool more evenly,

preventing separation.

You also use shea butter, which is like a solid oil. I haven't used

butters in ointments yet, so I don't know how this would play into the

outcome. I usually like that in creams and lotions, I have made

concoctions with only butters/oils before, but that's a different story.

I will try to play with the combination you describe, and let you know

if I can come up with something workable.

Best of Luck,

ne

[Guest guest]

Whatever the formulation you are using, I wouldn't recommend cutting.

Instead, fill a lipstick tube with the stuff and let it cool in there.

That's what I would do anywyas.

I find Mandy's formula for solid perfume too soft for where I need

them - in a pendant that gets warmed up against the body. I use half

the amount beeswax and half the amount perfume oil (a mixture of

jojoba and essential oils). This still may be too soft for a stick though.

[Guest guest]

Hi Ruth,

I experimented a little after my last message, and yes, Shea has to be

counted as oil part, as well as EO.

On a rough scale 1:1 oil and wax will give you a firm result. You

might want it a little softer then that. I started with 8g Beeswax, 4g

Shea, 15ml/15g Almond oil, melted this and let it harden to test. Re-

melted, let cool down, then mixed in my EOs which totaled 2g (I don't

have the 0.01g scale yet. 1g is the lowest). At this point, a few

hours later, it's nice and firm, but easy to use. I'm sure it will be

firmer by morning, but I think for a stick dispenser I would want it a

little firmer then that.

The scent is nice and strong, even though it's been a really rough

slap job for experiments sake.

I just might backtrack and work on that some more. There is potential.

Hope this helps a little.

ne

[Guest guest]

Thanks *ne* (wow I can't believe you are so kind to go to so much

trouble for me), Ayala, and *everyone* who helped with this one, I

managed to stay relatively calm throughout the crisis! Ayala, I won't

use plastic so you see why the lip stick tube is out for me and

cutting is the only option. It worked for my lotion bars and I am so

relieved it is seems now as if it will work for this. (took me till

2.30 am) My last proportions did the trick and I now have a perfect

stick which cuts beautifully. Firm enough and yet it still glides over

the skin. Perfume proportion is 15% of the total stick.

For all you guys who helped, send me a postal address (privately) I

will send you a stick of your choice if you want.

White Witch Gold, is an extravagant, rich, warm perfume with notes of

coco, tonka and pink lotus. It's infused with real gold. White Witch

Gold makes you feel rich when you wear it.

White Witch Sweet Heart is a bitter sweet perfume with notes of pink

grapefruit, ylang ylang and vanilla. It's infused with real rose

quartz. White Witch Sweet Heart is a real " give me some " perfume, it

is feminine without being overly floral or too sweet. Inspired by my

daughter Karma.

White Witch Mystery is a dark, mysterious perfume with notes of orris,

opoponax and jasmine. It's infused with the light of the moon.

White Witch Mystery is for " grown up women " ! It is a heady soulful

perfume that inspires a woman to get in touch with who she really is.

For a sneak preview have a look at *new photos*: I don't have them on

my website yet, will do by Thursday though!

Ruth

[Guest guest]

<snipped>

>> how do I stop the sticks

>> being squidgy. To give you the idea of level of squidginess, when I

>> press a stick on my wrist to rub some on, it just smushes!!!

>> What am I doing wrong?

>>Ruth http://www.whitewitch.ie

<snipped>

>Are your proportions for beeswax enough?

>Janita

www.hayspace.co.uk

Hi Ruth,

The amount of beeswax in your recipe was the first thing that I was

wondering about too ...

If its too soft you need more beeswax to stiffen 'er up.

Good luck!

*Smile*

Chris

http://www.alittleolfactory.com

[Guest guest]

>

My last proportions did the trick and I now have a perfect

> stick which cuts beautifully. Firm enough and yet it still glides over

> the skin. Perfume proportion is 15% of the total stick.

>

> For all you guys who helped, send me a postal address (privately) I

> will send you a stick of your choice if you want.

>

Hi Ruth,

I am so glad to hear it all worked out. I can just imagine to have

everything lined up and something like this happening. That's about

normal.

You're very generous to offer us gifts. Your scents sound heavenly, but

I know, to ship over " the big puddle " is quite costly. There really is

no need for that. But thank you very much. I'm happy to help whenever I

can. And as White Witch, you know how it works- it all comes around

eventually. I felt your distress, and I'm just really, really happy for

you. That's enough.

Brightest Blessings

ne

[Guest guest]

sblessinghww <sblessinghww@...> wrote:

>

My last proportions did the trick and I now have a perfect

> stick which cuts beautifully. Firm enough and yet it still glides over

> the skin. Perfume proportion is 15% of the total stick.

>

> For all you guys who helped, send me a postal address (privately) I

> will send you a stick of your choice if you want.

>

Hi Ruth,

I am so glad to hear it all worked out. I can just imagine to have

>>>>>>

...>..>>>>>>>>

And as White Witch, you know how it works- it all comes around

eventually. I felt your distress, and I'm just really, really happy for

you. That's enough.

Brightest Blessings

ne

Hey Ruth

I think ne has summed it up ......

well done...... last minute crises are the worst.....It is lovely that you

have had some great back up from the guys here at NP to carry you through it

.......

so congratulations on your sticks they sound and will no doubt smell

divine.... ....just in time for your christmas rush....

festive fires woodland aromas and happy thoughts

Janita

Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.

[Guest guest]

>

> Don't they make metal lipstick tubes any more? Or have they

disappeared? Or is there a problem with leeching from metal tubes, too?

>

> Beth

>

Beth, metal doesn't leech like plastic, it's reactive. Perfect example

is canned food -ever had something with metallic smell/taste?

Not sure which is actually worse, but I definitely prefer some

plastics over metal any day, unless it's stainles steel. Most cosmetic

packaging is tin.

I think Ruth is definitely on the right track with butter paper

packaging. Glass is another good option.

Whichever packaging someone decides on, there will be challenges with

product compatibility.

Research and formulation, together with NP friends, can overcome

ne

[Guest guest]

>> Again I ask, am I attempting the impossible, how do I stop the

sticks

> being squidgy. To give you the idea of level of squidginess, when I

> press a stick on my wrist to rub some on, it just smushes!!!

>

> I think I saw someones website from the group who sells perfume

> sticks, with shea butter beeswax and oil.

>

> What am I doing wrong?

>

>

> Ruth

> http://www.whitewitch.ie

>

Hi Ruth-----if you have mango butter, or unscented cocoa butter, you

might try one of those for the shea butter which is much softer. I

use

mango butter in my creme perfumes (and of course more beeswax as

discussed already)--I also find mango to feel silkier on the skin

than

shea butter, less " draggy " . And it does not have the latex allergy

issues that shea can. (Or as much natural odor to start with as shea

either). It hasn't had as much press attention/advertising noise as

shea butter but it's a very nice butter for formulating with. Just

be

sure you get it from a reputable suppler, it should be nearly as hard

as cocoa butter. I use all of these butters in my soaps and find

mango silkiest, then cocoa butter, then shea, which is rather sticky

and smushy. It's a great superfatting oil in soaps but I don't like

it in lotion bars, personally.

Best of luck!

Judith in snowy, snowy Idaho

[Guest guest]

sblessinghww <sblessinghww@...> wrote:

>

> Don't they make metal lipstick tubes any more? Or have they

disappeared? Or is there a problem with leeching from metal tubes, too?

>

> Beth

>

Beth, metal doesn't leech like plastic, it's reactive. Perfect example

is canned food -ever had something with metallic smell/taste?

Not sure which is actually worse, but I definitely prefer some

plastics over metal any day, unless it's stainles steel. Most cosmetic

packaging is tin.

I think Ruth is definitely on the right track with butter paper

packaging. Glass is another good option.

ne

I would also be very careful about aluminum packaging. High levels of aluminum

in the body are linked with Alzheimer's and osteoporosis, kidney disease, and

gastrointestinal problems. Granted, most of our exposure comes from the water

supply but aluminum cookware is a culprit and aluminum is an ingredient in most

baking powders, deodorants, etc. I do think aluminum packaging can have an

effect on the product it contains. It seems like a good idea to avoid plastic

and metal packaging for perfumes unless you can use sterling silver.

---------------------------------

Everyone is raving about the all-new beta.

[Guest guest]

> I won't use plastic so you see why the lip stick tube is out for me and

> cutting is the only option.

Don't they make metal lipstick tubes any more? Or have they disappeared? Or is

there a problem with leeching from metal tubes, too?

Beth

--

" Don't be afraid of the space between your dreams and reality. If you can dream

it, you can make it so. " - Belva

" It's kind of fun to do the impossible. " -- Walt Disney

" Live every day as if it were your last, because one of these days, it will be. "

-- Schwartz

" If you can DREAM it, you CAN do it. Always remember, this whole thing was

started by a mouse. " -- Walt Disney

" You are never given a wish without also being given the power to make it come

true. You may have to work for it, however. " -- From Illusions by

Bach

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[Guest guest]

What about china, Ruth< very white white china?

Sugestion form Brazil

Ane*

---------------------------------

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