Re: regulation of health care staff

[Guest guest]

I think that this is a very interesting point that you have raised,

,

in relation to career paths for the various new roles. In a way it

highlights the fact that nursing is just as head in sand about

policy/regulatory issues as those of us in the community!

For me the main priority is that the public is protected otherwise jobs

can

be abused and that does nothing for any of the caring professions. In

the

present situation (that I don't think will change very much in the

near/distant future) of poor recruitment and retention, broadening out

the

experience and training for (as an example) health visiting is one,

relatively easy method of trying to address these issues. It appears to

have been very successful for midwives so I don't see why there should

be a

huge amount of difference for health visiting. Or am I being short-

sighted?

Best wishes

Toity

Quoting :

>

[Guest guest]

I find this issue of regulation and lack

of career structure for some groups fascinating. It is a complete mess. I

would like to suggest that the people coming off a Foundation Degree may choose

a career in public health practice over nursing. Those with a Foundation Degree

in Health and social Care (120 Level 2 credit) may choose to access a BSc

(Hons) public health Practice (such as that offered at Southampton). This award aims to develop

a public health practitioner who meets the 10 Occupational Standards for Public

Health Practitioners (Skills for Health 2004) and hopefully access to the

Voluntary Register for Public Health Practitioners when established. Core

modules are shared with student health visitors who on completion of their

award enter the NMC Register and also meet the occupational standards for

public health practitioners. This inter-professional approach to educating a public

health practitioner could provide a career pathway for the public health worker

who is unable to access health visiting because they are not nurses (eg;

nursery nurses with a Foundation Degree).

regulation

of health care staff

Relevant to this, is the

current consultation about whether to regulate health care staff, including

people like health care assistants, support workers and therapy asistants.

I had almost forgotten about it, as it came out in March; is due in 2nd July.

I could not resist the opportunity to point out how inconsistent the

government is being, in deregulating health visiting, but regulating everyone

else and their cat!

Actually, it is an important consultation. I have been amused, but I

confess unsympathetic, that my nursing colleagues have just recently begun to

realise the implications for their profession of all the new roles that people

are being trained for, without necessarily going anywhere near a school of

nursing: surgeons assistants, paramedics, therapy assistants etc.

These are folk who spend a few months training intensively in a few key

activities. They are certificated and become extremely expert very

quickly. Some are taking two year foundation degrees, which (I think: I

hope colleagues will correct me if I am wrong) are the equivalent of a higher

education diploma, ie, the same academic level as registered nurses.

The problems for them (which have not yet started to show, as it is all so new)

is that there is no real career structure. The problem for nursing

is twofold. First, these people will soon start developing career

structures and will compete directly with nursing for staff, kudos and new

roles. Second, the nursing system is so completely closed, ie, only a

full pre-regiatration programme will do, that it is very hard for nursing to

offer a career for these folk. Some places are trying to use these new

roles as stepping stones into nursing, but the rigidity of the system and

refusal to share nursing knowledge, or recognise skills held by anyone

that has not done the three year pre-registration nursing programme is a

barrier. It is the same rigidity that has prevented health visiting from

developing a direct entry training; hence my lack of sympathy. Let diversity

roll, I say! However, the public do need protecting.

I have written my views and, if others wish to join in, this could serve as a

basis of a response from Senate. Please feel free to disagree, too, if

you do; then we can find a suitable joint position from which to reply.

best wishes

Tom Lund-Lack wrote:

From Lund-lack

We have a Quality Standard entitled

'Delegation of work to non NMC registered staff'. this makes the It

incumbent on the supervising HV to make it absolutely clear that accountability

rests with her/him and that she/he makes it absolutely clear to those members

of staff that they no the score. We took advice from the UKKC as it was

then about this. Non NMC registered staff covers nursery nurses, clinic clerks

and volunteers.

[Guest guest]

Colleagues may have seen that in its response to the regulation of

health care assistants, the NMC has offered to share it with the

HPC. It seems likely that the HPC will be the sole regulator, but

that there could be nursing input on the HPC committee which

oversees HCAs. Certainly the HPC, with its increasing range of

regulated professions, has shown that it can develop systems

which both have a commonality but also recognise diversity. So I

think they are the best bet for getting some structure into the

system.

On a different topic, many congratulations to our colleagues Jean

Orr (CBE) and McIntosh (OBE).

< >

From: " e.m.j.porter " <e.m.j.porter@...>

Date sent: Mon, 21 Jun 2004 18:59:35 +0100

Subject: RE: regulation of health care staff

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I find this issue of regulation and lack of career structure for some

groups fascinating. It is a complete mess. I would like to suggest that

the people coming off a Foundation Degree may choose a career in public

health practice over nursing. Those with a Foundation Degree in Health

and social Care (120 Level 2 credit) may choose to access a BSc (Hons)

public health Practice (such as that offered at Southampton). This award

aims to develop a public health practitioner who meets the 10

Occupational Standards for Public Health Practitioners (Skills for

Health 2004) and hopefully access to the Voluntary Register for Public

Health Practitioners when established. Core modules are shared with

student health visitors who on completion of their award enter the NMC

Register and also meet the occupational standards for public health

practitioners. This inter-professional approach to educating a public

health practitioner could provide a career pathway for the public health

worker who is unable to access health visiting because they are not

nurses (eg; nursery nurses with a Foundation Degree).

regulation of health care staff

Relevant to this, is the current consultation about whether to regulate

health care staff, including people like health care assistants, support

workers and therapy asistants. I had almost forgotten about it, as it

came out in March; is due in 2nd July. I could not resist the

opportunity to point out how inconsistent the government is being, in

deregulating health visiting, but regulating everyone else and their

cat!

Actually, it is an important consultation. I have been amused, but I

confess unsympathetic, that my nursing colleagues have just recently

begun to realise the implications for their profession of all the new

roles that people are being trained for, without necessarily going

anywhere near a school of nursing: surgeons assistants, paramedics,

therapy assistants etc. These are folk who spend a few months training

intensively in a few key activities. They are certificated and become

extremely expert very quickly. Some are taking two year foundation

degrees, which (I think: I hope colleagues will correct me if I am

wrong) are the equivalent of a higher education diploma, ie, the same

academic level as registered nurses.

The problems for them (which have not yet started to show, as it is all

so new) is that there is no real career structure. The problem for

nursing is twofold. First, these people will soon start developing

career structures and will compete directly with nursing for staff,

kudos and new roles. Second, the nursing system is so completely

closed, ie, only a full pre-regiatration programme will do, that it is

very hard for nursing to offer a career for these folk. Some places are

trying to use these new roles as stepping stones into nursing, but the

rigidity of the system and refusal to share nursing knowledge, or

recognise skills held by anyone that has not done the three year

pre-registration nursing programme is a barrier. It is the same

rigidity that has prevented health visiting from developing a direct

entry training; hence my lack of sympathy. Let diversity roll, I say!

However, the public do need protecting.

I have written my views and, if others wish to join in, this could serve

as a basis of a response from Senate. Please feel free to disagree,

too, if you do; then we can find a suitable joint position from which to

reply. best wishes

Tom Lund-Lack wrote:

From Lund-lack

We have a Quality Standard entitled 'Delegation of work to non NMC

registered staff'. this makes the It incumbent on the supervising HV to

make it absolutely clear that accountability rests with her/him and that

she/he makes it absolutely clear to those members of staff that they no

the score. We took advice from the UKKC as it was then about this. Non

NMC registered staff covers nursery nurses, clinic clerks and

volunteers.

[Guest guest]

Thanks Liz, and to the others who commented on the draft response to

regulation of health care workers, which I have now finalised; copy

attached.

I was delighted that the two Jeans had been recognised in the honours

system: both very deserving. best wishes

MEERABEAU ELIZABETH wrote:

>Colleagues may have seen that in its response to the regulation of

>health care assistants, the NMC has offered to share it with the

>HPC. It seems likely that the HPC will be the sole regulator, but

>that there could be nursing input on the HPC committee which

>oversees HCAs. Certainly the HPC, with its increasing range of

>regulated professions, has shown that it can develop systems

>which both have a commonality but also recognise diversity. So I

>think they are the best bet for getting some structure into the

>system.

>

>On a different topic, many congratulations to our colleagues Jean

>Orr (CBE) and McIntosh (OBE).

>

>

>

>