Guest guest Posted April 26, 2006 Report Posted April 26, 2006 Mark, nicotine, alcohol and coffee all interfere with sleep and affect eeg patterns. Is she still using all of these? If so this may have really skewed the assessment. If she is indeed " addicted and still using alcohol that ought to be addressed first. On Apr 26, 2006, at 5:37 PM, Mark Darling wrote: > nicotine, alcohol and coffee --- http://USFamily.Net/dialup.html - $8.25/mo! -- http://www.usfamily.net/dsl.html - $19.99/mo! --- Quote
Guest guest Posted April 26, 2006 Report Posted April 26, 2006 Dear Mark - I've been working with a young woman with comparable alpha percentages who's had depression, anxiety and terrible onset insomnia - it routinely took her 7-8 hours to fall asleep. St. Clair recommended here squishing the Alpha at the parietals (I used Pete's Alpha Down protocol) and it worked nicely once we got the alpha down (took several sessions), and she is falling asleep much sooner and reporting that her sleep is deeper and more restorative. However, the process has thrown her into a lot of emotion and grief the alpha probably blocked before, so it's been a roller coaster for her. On the basis of this limited experience, I would say make sure your client has good support when you start bringing the Alpha down, work in back where percentages are highest, and inhibit Theta as well as Alpha to prevent anxiety reactions. Keep in mind that I'm a newbie - I hope others will add their suggestions. Kat Duff Alphaville I've got an interesting client that would be nice to get some feedback on. This is a 45 y.o. educated woman who wants to address her addictions to nicotine, alcohol and coffee. She also has anxiety/depression and major sleep onset insomnia since she was a child. The main feature of her TLC assessment is the large global EC alpha percentages (eg, 40% at F4, 55% at Oz). Alpha blocks well in EO condition, but alpha PF is slow globally. Alpha coherence is 79% between C3 and C4, but in normal range at other pairs of sites. There is a minor front/back alpha amplitude reversal, but no L/R frontal alpha or beta reversal and no disconnect or hot temporals. Theta/beta ratios are all normal. Alpha/theta ratios are high. There is no frontal midline blocking pattern evident. Any thoughts about attacking the alpha and where to start? I think it would be nice to hit the sleep problems first up. Mark Darling Quote
Guest guest Posted April 27, 2006 Report Posted April 27, 2006 Some good comments have already been made. Here are my two cents. We talk about alpha being the bridge between subconscious (theta) and conscious (beta). Very low levels of alpha: No bridge, and the client remains unaware of subconscious processes. But very tall alpha bridges can be conceived of as a drawbridge stuck open: you STILL can't get across from one side to the other. One of the characteristics of the high alpha person is a kind of anesthesia, like wrapping the brain in cotton, which very often in my experience results in a somaticization of the emotional material. Lots of fibromyalgia, chronic pain and chronic fatigue folks show this pattern--especially if the alpha peak is low, and especially if there is a lot of alpha in front. I agree with that it sounds like this client is desperately tryiing to keep awake with the nicotine and caffeine, and those can definitely have an anxiety effect. But my guess is that, when you start bringing down the alpha, some emotional material is likely to surface. I wish Gilbert would be a bit more clear about his process developed with Marvin Sams of training down and then up the alpha coherence, since that sounded intriguing as a way to avoid a lot of emotional turmoil. Jay Gunkelman regularly says that the way to reduce alpha frontally, espeicially slow alpha, is to train it up in the back, but focus on the faster alpha (they come from different rhythm generators in the thalamus). So training down 2-9 Hz (which would block surges of low theta as well) and training up 10-13 Hz at, say, P4 might be a very good place to start. Pete > > From: " Mark Darling " <mdarling@...> > Date: 2006/04/26 Wed PM 06:37:35 EDT > " BrainTrainer List " < > > Subject: Alphaville > > I've got an interesting client that would be nice to get some feedback on. This is a 45 y.o. educated woman who wants to address her addictions to nicotine, alcohol and coffee. She also has anxiety/depression and major sleep onset insomnia since she was a child. > > The main feature of her TLC assessment is the large global EC alpha percentages (eg, 40% at F4, 55% at Oz). Alpha blocks well in EO condition, but alpha PF is slow globally. Alpha coherence is 79% between C3 and C4, but in normal range at other pairs of sites. > > There is a minor front/back alpha amplitude reversal, but no L/R frontal alpha or beta reversal and no disconnect or hot temporals. Theta/beta ratios are all normal. Alpha/theta ratios are high. There is no frontal midline blocking pattern evident. > > Any thoughts about attacking the alpha and where to start? I think it would be nice to hit the sleep problems first up. > > Mark Darling > > Quote
Guest guest Posted April 27, 2006 Report Posted April 27, 2006 I can 'second' what Kat said about emotional content... I've started to inhibit 8-10hz at the P sites on myself, (yesterday the 8-10hz was 35microvolts!!! and yes, I have terrible sleep onset problems!), and my sleep is deeper and dreams more vivid...and more emotional stuff and somaticization during the day. I've decided to go with it and see if this is, indeed, a process that i need to go through. I've found that the pRoshi dramatically helps reduce that 8-10hz! (and not the 10-12hz...interesting...'course the 8-10 is the unstable one). I'll try the Gilbert coherence stuff soon. mary Alphaville >> >> I've got an interesting client that would be nice to get some feedback >> on. This is a 45 y.o. educated woman who wants to address her addictions >> to nicotine, alcohol and coffee. She also has anxiety/depression and >> major sleep onset insomnia since she was a child. >> >> The main feature of her TLC assessment is the large global EC alpha >> percentages (eg, 40% at F4, 55% at Oz). Alpha blocks well in EO >> condition, but alpha PF is slow globally. Alpha coherence is 79% between >> C3 and C4, but in normal range at other pairs of sites. >> >> There is a minor front/back alpha amplitude reversal, but no L/R frontal >> alpha or beta reversal and no disconnect or hot temporals. Theta/beta >> ratios are all normal. Alpha/theta ratios are high. There is no frontal >> midline blocking pattern evident. >> >> Any thoughts about attacking the alpha and where to start? I think it >> would be nice to hit the sleep problems first up. >> >> Mark Darling >> >> > > > > > Quote
Guest guest Posted April 27, 2006 Report Posted April 27, 2006 I should add that my design is sum channels: inhibit 8-10hz and 15-38hz, reward 10-13hz at P3/A1 and P4/A2 linked ears. I did a combo of continuous and regular midi's all on Warm Pad...so it's very 'hummy' and not very energetic. I'm willing to share the design if you are interested. Alphaville >>> >>> I've got an interesting client that would be nice to get some feedback >>> on. This is a 45 y.o. educated woman who wants to address her addictions >>> to nicotine, alcohol and coffee. She also has anxiety/depression and >>> major sleep onset insomnia since she was a child. >>> >>> The main feature of her TLC assessment is the large global EC alpha >>> percentages (eg, 40% at F4, 55% at Oz). Alpha blocks well in EO >>> condition, but alpha PF is slow globally. Alpha coherence is 79% between >>> C3 and C4, but in normal range at other pairs of sites. >>> >>> There is a minor front/back alpha amplitude reversal, but no L/R frontal >>> alpha or beta reversal and no disconnect or hot temporals. Theta/beta >>> ratios are all normal. Alpha/theta ratios are high. There is no frontal >>> midline blocking pattern evident. >>> >>> Any thoughts about attacking the alpha and where to start? I think it >>> would be nice to hit the sleep problems first up. >>> >>> Mark Darling >>> >>> >> >> >> >> >> Quote
Guest guest Posted April 27, 2006 Report Posted April 27, 2006 This should not be surprizing, + In that the pROSHI does not disturb the cognizing, of the brain. It only cause the brain to reduce those stationary, nonflexible frequencies; those embedded strange attractors, that build up thru past trauma or PTSD. The pROSHI will not disturb your intentional uptraining, of 10-12Hz; it will just increase your frictionless flow, of that intention. Kinda stands to reason, since ROSHI is the original "squash" engine. True peak performance training ... Namaste, /ChuckD.... http://roshi.com/ Re: Alphaville I can 'second' what Kat said about emotional content...I've started to inhibit 8-10hz at the P sites on myself, (yesterday the 8-10hz was 35microvolts!!! and yes, I have terrible sleep onset problems!), and my sleep is deeper and dreams more vivid...and more emotional stuff and somaticization during the day. I've decided to go with it and see if this is, indeed, a process that i need to go through. I've found that the pRoshi dramatically helps reduce that 8-10hz! (and not the 10-12hz...interesting...'course the 8-10 is the unstable one).I'll try the Gilbert coherence stuff soon.mary Alphaville>>>> I've got an interesting client that would be nice to get some feedback >> on. This is a 45 y.o. educated woman who wants to address her addictions >> to nicotine, alcohol and coffee. She also has anxiety/depression and >> major sleep onset insomnia since she was a child.>>>> The main feature of her TLC assessment is the large global EC alpha >> percentages (eg, 40% at F4, 55% at Oz). Alpha blocks well in EO >> condition, but alpha PF is slow globally. Alpha coherence is 79% between >> C3 and C4, but in normal range at other pairs of sites.>>>> There is a minor front/back alpha amplitude reversal, but no L/R frontal >> alpha or beta reversal and no disconnect or hot temporals. Theta/beta >> ratios are all normal. Alpha/theta ratios are high. There is no frontal >> midline blocking pattern evident.>>>> Any thoughts about attacking the alpha and where to start? I think it >> would be nice to hit the sleep problems first up.>>>> Mark Darling>>>>>>>>> Quote
Guest guest Posted April 27, 2006 Report Posted April 27, 2006 This should not be surprizing, + In that the pROSHI does not disturb the cognizing of the brain. It only causes the brain to reduce those stationary, nonflexible frequencies; those embedded strange attractors, that build up thru past trauma or PTSD. The pROSHI will not disturb your intentional uptraining, of 10-12Hz; it will just increase your frictionless flow, of that intention. Kinda stands to reason, since ROSHI is the original "squash" engine. True peak performance training ... Namaste, /ChuckD.... http://roshi.com/ Re: Alphaville I can 'second' what Kat said about emotional content...I've started to inhibit 8-10hz at the P sites on myself, (yesterday the 8-10hz was 35microvolts!!! and yes, I have terrible sleep onset problems!), and my sleep is deeper and dreams more vivid...and more emotional stuff and somaticization during the day. I've decided to go with it and see if this is, indeed, a process that i need to go through. I've found that the pRoshi dramatically helps reduce that 8-10hz! (and not the 10-12hz...interesting...'course the 8-10 is the unstable one).I'll try the Gilbert coherence stuff soon.mary Alphaville>>>> I've got an interesting client that would be nice to get some feedback >> on. This is a 45 y.o. educated woman who wants to address her addictions >> to nicotine, alcohol and coffee. She also has anxiety/depression and >> major sleep onset insomnia since she was a child.>>>> The main feature of her TLC assessment is the large global EC alpha >> percentages (eg, 40% at F4, 55% at Oz). Alpha blocks well in EO >> condition, but alpha PF is slow globally. Alpha coherence is 79% between >> C3 and C4, but in normal range at other pairs of sites.>>>> There is a minor front/back alpha amplitude reversal, but no L/R frontal >> alpha or beta reversal and no disconnect or hot temporals. Theta/beta >> ratios are all normal. Alpha/theta ratios are high. There is no frontal >> midline blocking pattern evident.>>>> Any thoughts about attacking the alpha and where to start? I think it >> would be nice to hit the sleep problems first up.>>>> Mark Darling>>>>>>>>> Quote
Guest guest Posted April 27, 2006 Report Posted April 27, 2006 , Thanks. She is still using, but I think mostly drinking at night to try to sleep. I'll look into it. Mark Re: Alphaville Mark,nicotine, alcohol and coffee all interfere with sleep and affect eeg patterns. Is she still using all of these? If so this may have really skewed the assessment. If she is indeed "addicted and still using alcohol that ought to be addressed first. On Apr 26, 2006, at 5:37 PM, Mark Darling wrote: nicotine, alcohol and coffee Quote
Guest guest Posted April 27, 2006 Report Posted April 27, 2006 Thanks you guys for all your suggestions. This client has just done her second session. At the first session (prior to receiving the advice of the group) I did a 2 channel EC 8-12 Hz squish at F3+F4 with linked ear references. She has come back so excited about the effects that we have continued with that protocol. It seems the good effects hit her about an hour after the session. She was immediately calmer, had much less anxiety and depression, and slept well that night. Her family really noticed the difference and the effect didn't wear off at all between the sessions. I may of course still get around to your other suggestions, but it just goes to show that the best protocol in any given situation is always the one that works! Mark Darling Alphaville >> >> I've got an interesting client that would be nice to get some feedback >> on. This is a 45 y.o. educated woman who wants to address her addictions >> to nicotine, alcohol and coffee. She also has anxiety/depression and >> major sleep onset insomnia since she was a child. >> >> The main feature of her TLC assessment is the large global EC alpha >> percentages (eg, 40% at F4, 55% at Oz). Alpha blocks well in EO >> condition, but alpha PF is slow globally. Alpha coherence is 79% between >> C3 and C4, but in normal range at other pairs of sites. >> >> There is a minor front/back alpha amplitude reversal, but no L/R frontal >> alpha or beta reversal and no disconnect or hot temporals. Theta/beta >> ratios are all normal. Alpha/theta ratios are high. There is no frontal >> midline blocking pattern evident. >> >> Any thoughts about attacking the alpha and where to start? I think it >> would be nice to hit the sleep problems first up. >> >> Mark Darling >> >> > > > > > Quote
Guest guest Posted April 27, 2006 Report Posted April 27, 2006 I have to say, my alpha is pretty low, though peak alpha is above 10, but I am in touch with my unconscious material. My theta tends to be high, perhaps that explains it. Foxx -----Original Message-----From: [mailto: ] On Behalf Of Van DeusenSent: Thursday, April 27, 2006 3:59 AM Subject: Re: AlphavilleSome good comments have already been made. Here are my two cents.We talk about alpha being the bridge between subconscious (theta) and conscious (beta). Very low levels of alpha: No bridge, and the client remains unaware of subconscious processes. But very tall alpha bridges can be conceived of as a drawbridge stuck open: you STILL can't get across from one side to the other. One of the characteristics of the high alpha person is a kind of anesthesia, like wrapping the brain in cotton, which very often in my experience results in a somaticization of the emotional material. Lots of fibromyalgia, chronic pain and chronic fatigue folks show this pattern--especially if the alpha peak is low, and especially if there is a lot of alpha in front.I agree with that it sounds like this client is desperately tryiing to keep awake with the nicotine and caffeine, and those can definitely have an anxiety effect. But my guess is that, when you start bringing down the alpha, some emotional material is likely to surface. I wish Gilbert would be a bit more clear about his process developed with Marvin Sams of training down and then up the alpha coherence, since that sounded intriguing as a way to avoid a lot of emotional turmoil.Jay Gunkelman regularly says that the way to reduce alpha frontally, espeicially slow alpha, is to train it up in the back, but focus on the faster alpha (they come from different rhythm generators in the thalamus). So training down 2-9 Hz (which would block surges of low theta as well) and training up 10-13 Hz at, say, P4 might be a very good place to start.Pete Quote
Guest guest Posted April 27, 2006 Report Posted April 27, 2006 Just to add to the discussion, I have sleep onset difficulty and DEFINITELY do not have too much alpha. Fioxx -----Original Message-----From: [mailto: ] On Behalf Of St. Clair, MSWSent: Thursday, April 27, 2006 6:40 AM Subject: Re: AlphavilleI can 'second' what Kat said about emotional content...I've started to inhibit 8-10hz at the P sites on myself, (yesterday the 8-10hz was 35microvolts!!! and yes, I have terrible sleep onset problems!), and my sleep is deeper and dreams more vivid...and more emotional stuff and somaticization during the day. I've decided to go with it and see if this is, indeed, a process that i need to go through. I've found that the pRoshi dramatically helps reduce that 8-10hz! (and not the 10-12hz...interesting...'course the 8-10 is the unstable one).I'll try the Gilbert coherence stuff soon.mary Re: Alphaville Quote
Guest guest Posted April 28, 2006 Report Posted April 28, 2006 Some people might have HiBeta more in the Rt.Frontal region due to Anxiety/Stress with normal Alpha. I treated one client with this problem with EEG Pro 2 channel Alpha Synchrony Protocol which inhibits HiBeta 1+2, Delta inhibit 1+2 & rewards Alpha1+2 at P3 - A1 -M2 - A2 -P4 within 3 sessions.He is a sales executive with much anxiety & stress. Now he sleeps very well and his performance is getting better. He still takes 2 sessions per week to learn to relax. Dr.Deen MDFoxx <foxx@...> wrote: I have to say, my alpha is pretty low, though peak alpha is above 10, but I am in touch with my unconscious material. My theta tends to be high, perhaps that explains it. Foxx -----Original Message-----From: [mailto: ] On Behalf Of Van DeusenSent: Thursday, April 27, 2006 3:59 AM Subject: Re: AlphavilleSome good comments have already been made. Here are my two cents.We talk about alpha being the bridge between subconscious (theta) and conscious (beta). Very low levels of alpha: No bridge, and the client remains unaware of subconscious processes. But very tall alpha bridges can be conceived of as a drawbridge stuck open: you STILL can't get across from one side to the other. One of the characteristics of the high alpha person is a kind of anesthesia, like wrapping the brain in cotton, which very often in my experience results in a somaticization of the emotional material. Lots of fibromyalgia, chronic pain and chronic fatigue folks show this pattern--especially if the alpha peak is low, and especially if there is a lot of alpha in front.I agree with that it sounds like this client is desperately tryiing to keep awake with the nicotine and caffeine, and those can definitely have an anxiety effect. But my guess is that, when you start bringing down the alpha, some emotional material is likely to surface. I wish Gilbert would be a bit more clear about his process developed with Marvin Sams of training down and then up the alpha coherence, since that sounded intriguing as a way to avoid a lot of emotional turmoil.Jay Gunkelman regularly says that the way to reduce alpha frontally, espeicially slow alpha, is to train it up in the back, but focus on the faster alpha (they come from different rhythm generators in the thalamus). So training down 2-9 Hz (which would block surges of low theta as well) and training up 10-13 Hz at, say, P4 might be a very good place to start.Pete Quote
Guest guest Posted April 28, 2006 Report Posted April 28, 2006 Why is this an 'Alpha Synchrony Protocol' when it supplies two channel rewards for alpha at P3 and P4?. > I have to say, my alpha is pretty low, though peak alpha is above 10, but I am in touch with my unconscious material. My theta tends to be high, perhaps that explains it. > > Foxx > > Re: Alphaville > > > Some good comments have already been made. Here are my two cents. > > We talk about alpha being the bridge between subconscious (theta) and conscious (beta). Very low levels of alpha: No bridge, and the client remains unaware of subconscious processes. But very tall alpha bridges can be conceived of as a drawbridge stuck open: you STILL can't get across from one side to the other. One of the characteristics of the high alpha person is a kind of anesthesia, like wrapping the brain in cotton, which very often in my experience results in a somaticization of the emotional material. Lots of fibromyalgia, chronic pain and chronic fatigue folks show this pattern--especially if the alpha peak is low, and especially if there is a lot of alpha in front. > > I agree with that it sounds like this client is desperately tryiing to keep awake with the nicotine and caffeine, and those can definitely have an anxiety effect. But my guess is that, when you start bringing down the alpha, some emotional material is likely to surface. I wish Gilbert would be a bit more clear about his process developed with Marvin Sams of training down and then up the alpha coherence, since that sounded intriguing as a way to avoid a lot of emotional turmoil. > > Jay Gunkelman regularly says that the way to reduce alpha frontally, espeicially slow alpha, is to train it up in the back, but focus on the faster alpha (they come from different rhythm generators in the thalamus). So training down 2-9 Hz (which would block surges of low theta as well) and training up 10-13 Hz at, say, P4 might be a very good place to start. > > Pete > > > > Quote
Guest guest Posted May 3, 2006 Report Posted May 3, 2006 I'm looking for an analogy for the alpha/beta bridge. Continuing the train analogy, I'm thinking of a two people on two trains running side my side trying to exchange "messages". Like throwing a "message in a bottle" back and forth between the trains. My thought is that if the trains are more "synchronized" and predictable then throwing the bottle (communication) will be easier. If one, or either, train is going too fast, too slow, or changes speed rapidly and/or unpredictably, then the message transfer is lessened. Would this make sense for the type of exchange for the alpha/beta? And Alpha/Theta for that matter. Thanks! ~ A Do Something Useful Alphaville> > I've got an interesting client that would be nice to get some feedback on. This is a 45 y.o. educated woman who wants to address her addictions to nicotine, alcohol and coffee. She also has anxiety/depression and major sleep onset insomnia since she was a child.> > The main feature of her TLC assessment is the large global EC alpha percentages (eg, 40% at F4, 55% at Oz). Alpha blocks well in EO condition, but alpha PF is slow globally. Alpha coherence is 79% between C3 and C4, but in normal range at other pairs of sites.> > There is a minor front/back alpha amplitude reversal, but no L/R frontal alpha or beta reversal and no disconnect or hot temporals. Theta/beta ratios are all normal. Alpha/theta ratios are high. There is no frontal midline blocking pattern evident.> > Any thoughts about attacking the alpha and where to start? I think it would be nice to hit the sleep problems first up.> > Mark Darling> > Quote
Guest guest Posted May 3, 2006 Report Posted May 3, 2006 Hi Pete,In the train analogy exactly where on the train is the messages passed?Suppose the engine of train A (alpha) passes the message back to the endof the train, A, and then the message is passed to the engine of train B (beta).But then the message of train B is passed back to engine A from the end of train B. That would mean that A would have to slow down and/or B wouldhave to speed up. Maybe correlation?Larry A <PetePixxx@...> wrote: I'm looking for an analogy for the alpha/beta bridge. Continuing the train analogy, I'm thinking of a two people on two trains running side my side trying to exchange "messages". Like throwing a "message in a bottle" back and forth between the trains. My thought is that if the trains are more "synchronized" and predictable then throwing the bottle (communication) will be easier. If one, or either, train is going too fast, too slow, or changes speed rapidly and/or unpredictably, then the message transfer is lessened. Would this make sense for the type of exchange for the alpha/beta? And Alpha/Theta for that matter. Thanks! ~ A Do Something Useful Alphaville> > I've got an interesting client that would be nice to get some feedback on. This is a 45 y.o. educated woman who wants to address her addictions to nicotine, alcohol and coffee. She also has anxiety/depression and major sleep onset insomnia since she was a child.> > The main feature of her TLC assessment is the large global EC alpha percentages (eg, 40% at F4, 55% at Oz). Alpha blocks well in EO condition, but alpha PF is slow globally. Alpha coherence is 79% between C3 and C4, but in normal range at other pairs of sites.> > There is a minor front/back alpha amplitude reversal, but no L/R frontal alpha or beta reversal and no disconnect or hot temporals. Theta/beta ratios are all normal. Alpha/theta ratios are high. There is no frontal midline blocking pattern evident.> > Any thoughts about attacking the alpha and where to start? I think it would be nice to hit the sleep problems first up.> > Mark Darling> > How low will we go? Check out Messenger’s low PC-to-Phone call rates. Quote
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