Re: MSH-Zinc & a lipoic acid hits receptors/side efects/dose

March 4, 2006

Thank you Dr. Schaller for taking time to answer my questions. Very helpful

as always. I was especially grateful for your links and use of ALA with

diabetic neuropathy.

Rosie

[] MSH-Zinc & a lipoic acid hits receptors/side

efects/dose

I have felt the research on L-Opti Zinc showed good absorption, and the best

alpha lipoic acid form and dose I am exploring. As you know, less in the

first week is better.

As all have said on this site, the first treatment for the body with low

MSH, is the end of meaningful exposure.

I am looking over dosing and have no final thoughts yet. I am not convinced

it will be messianic. But might help 10-15%. A literal guess.

_____________

The side effects of excess ALA are debated and I find very rare. But include

at times at significant dosing:

nausea and upset stomachs

excessive doses can lower blood sugar

allergic skin rash

At very high doses, Alpha-Lipoic Acid, might reduce minerals from your body,

e.g., iron.

thyroid effects are debated

alcoholics may have low B's, and need other interventions first

etc......

Other benefits are discussed here:

1) http://www.vitacost.com/products/reviews/ala/ala.html

2) http://www.smart-drugs.com/smart/info-lipoic.htm

3) The findings appear in the March 2003 issue of Diabetes Care,

http://care.diabetesjournals.org/.

" There appears to be a rather large effect on the pain of diabetic

neuropathy with ALA, " says Dyck, M.D., Mayo Clinic neurologist and

peripheral nerve specialist. " The magnitude of the change is considerable.

We also found some improvement in neurologic signs and nerve conduction. We

were surprised by the magnitude and the rapidity of the response. "

When patients were given ALA, also known as thioctic acid, the researchers

found statistically significant improvement in the symptoms of diabetic

sensorimotor polyneuropathy (DSPN) damage to multiple nerves caused by

diabetes. The researchers measured improvement by a total symptom score, a

summation of the presence, severity and duration of burning and sharply

cutting pain, prickling sensations and numbness. The patients who took ALA

saw a 5.7-point total symptom score improvement from the start of the trial,

while those who took placebo, an inactive substance, only improved 1.8

points. ALA produced no unfavorable side effects in the patients taking this

substance.

I cannot support or oppose any medical information in these third party

articles.

RE: [] MSH-Zinc & a lipoic acid

Thank you Dr. Schaller!

Is it possible to share with us " average " dosages of zinc and ALA as well

as

the most highly absorbed forms.

We should also caution the members that zinc and ALA is not a cure for

anyone; only a small part of the protocol.

http://www.personalconsult.com/articles/moldandbiotoxins/moldandnutritionalt

reatments.html or

tiny url: http://tinyurl.com/nqd3f

in which you discussed " mold and nutritional treatments " .

Rosie

>>On Behalf Of jschaller

MSH receptors are stimulated by zinc and alpha lipoic acid.

Best, Schaller, MDwww.personalconsult.com>>>

FAIR USE NOTICE:

March 4, 2006

Dr Schaller, so you are recommending the L-Optic Zinc by

Nutriceuticals that does not containt copper, as opposed to the

OptiZinc put out by Source Naturals which contains extra copper???

I just want to be sure. That is one you seem to have looked into.

I heard zinc can diminish copper and vice versa, but one gets zinc

from other sources. Too much zinc can block copper obsorption and

vice versa. That's what I think is tricky with supplements, so I

usually just figure out what foods are high in this and that and add

them to my diet but I have heard people who are ill may be using up

zinc reserves and need to take extra, where they are not using up

reserves of copper. It is so hard to know what you really need

without nutrition testing, but how many doctors will do that or how

many people can afford to pay for it. Again, I'm sure not covered

by insurance but that way one would know for sure. I believe

nutrient testing is available. Another important nutrient to test

for is magnesium. Too much can make calcium and potassium go out of

whack but many people seem to be very low in magnesium. However if

one has a good diet and takes a good multi, they may not need these

things that really ring up alot of money over time. Second to

testing, would be to test nutrient by itself over a period of time,

say two weeks, if you feel no different, it probably isn't making

any difference. I know for me taking in more magnesium rich foods

like green vegetables and green juicing has made a difference I can

feel, whereby taking the magnesium tablet did not. You can find a

list of zinc rich foods on the net, then have supplement on hand

when time or convenience robs you of opportunity to eat properly.

>

> Thank you Dr. Schaller for taking time to answer my questions.

Very helpful

> as always. I was especially grateful for your links and use of

ALA with

> diabetic neuropathy.

>

> Rosie

>

March 5, 2006

Hi Barb. Hope you don't mind my joining the discussion. I'm not a licensed

M.D. so these are my educated comments.

I totally understand your concern for the copper/zinc ratio. I have often

seen people taking too many individual supplements just because they read

somewhere they should without any knowledge of the balance in our body for

all minerals and vitamins and other nutrients. Or taking into considering

any Rx and OTC medications they are taking which would contraindicate the

use of certain supplements and herbs. Methrotrexate for cancer and folic

acid is an example. Or someone on kidney dialysis couldn't just start

taking supplements because a friend is benefiting from them.

And certain illnesses require different levels of nutrients and foods other

than the " recommend amounts " So we must have basic education of what a

normal body at different age levels requires, what certain chronic illnesses

require, how good is the body in digesting and assimilating food, what is

the condition of the G.I system, etc. There can be so much involved and to

be addressed if we are not dealing with a " normal-healthy person " . It's

not a one box fits all. Your questions and comments are valid, important and

need to be addressed. Thank you for bringing them up.

My petals of thoughts on taking additional supplements are they can be very

useful to restore a known imbalance or in the case of antioxidants good

preventative tools. The type of supplement is important also; what form,

how it's manufactured, fillers, etc. If the body cannot utilize a

supplement it is a waste of money and effort and studies have been done

showing that some are more easily assimilated than others.

If we know a disease or Rx drugs depletes certain nutrients then we can

augment for a short period without having to be overly concerned about

causing an imbalance. An example would be having to take Rx antibiotics for

an infection. We know antibiotics can kill some of the flora in the

intestines which are necessary; so after the treatment we can supplement for

a period with probiotics. A celiac not on a gluten free diet will be

deficient in known vitamins and until the diet has been corrected, the

intestinal permeability restored we will supplement with additional vitamins

for a period of time. We can apply the same thoughts to toxic mold induced

illness. If our blood sugars are affected, we can take some chromium, etc.

and correct our diet also. Sometimes we must first treat the causative

agent before we can supplement; such as a person with lead toxicity will be

unable to assimilate any form of calcium until the lead has been chelated

and then calcium and others will be given. Of course it's best and

preferred to have a well trained M.D. who can perform many tests and

prescribe a protocol for us. Unfortunately many cannot afford the

out-of-pocket tests if insurance will not cover them nor if they have no

insurance. Then we do our best by learning as much as possible before we

start ingesting things.

Let's discuss eating healthy. I'm delighted you are eating healthy, have

the fresh produce to be able to juice daily and have done your homework on

nutrient levels in the foods. Unfortunately many, especially the very ill

and poor, do not have access to the fresh produce nor have researched as

much as you and know what your body requires. We must also take into

consideration the charts we see in books and in cyberspace giving us

nutrient levels are only an average and do not address when the tests were

done (fresh picked produce from the field, produce from the grocery store

using local farmers, trucked and stored for a while and refreshed by soaking

in water for lengths of time, etc). So, it's quite difficult to really

tally up the nutrients we consume on a daily basis based on charts. We also

know the nutrients are diminishing yearly in produce. It's hard and unless

we have our own farm and can have our produce tested we really cannot know

how much we are ingesting and assimilating. I had to learn this the hard

way years ago.

Please don't be offended with my comments. Only mean well and believe you

are doing your best which is what I'm trying to accomplish also.

Rosie

[] Re: MSH-Zinc & a lipoic acid hits receptors/side