RE: Flu Mist Vaccine campaign

[Guest guest]

I do not accept this line of reasoning. What about the phrase "do no harm?" Feasibility and practicality aren't included in that oath, are they?

Missy

-----Original Message-----From: james A. Mulick [mailto:mulick.1@...] Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2003 1:16 PMautism Subject: RE: Flu Mist Vaccine campaign

Penny, If it were feasible to test or predict who should get it,that would be done. Right now this is not practical to do effectively.

A. Mulick, Ph.D.

Professor, Pediatrics & Psychology

The Ohio State University

Columbus Children's Hospital

700 Children's Drive. CHPB-4

Columbus, OH 43205-2696

[No institutional endorsement of message content implied]

-----Original Message-----From: Penny [mailto:nospam@...] Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2003 6:09 PMautism Subject: RE: Flu Mist Vaccine campaign

First of all, yes babies do get this vaccine routinely, usually before leaving the hospital. I would think being a professor of Pediatrics, you would know this.

And really, what percentage of Hep B cases are from the example you pose? I'm also under the belief that Hepatitis B can and does resolve itself eventually. It seems to me that such a low risk of infection does not warrant routine use of this vaccine...

Penny

-----Original Message-----From: james A. Mulick [mailto:mulick.1@...]Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2003 12:28 PMautism Subject: RE: Flu Mist Vaccine campaign

Do babies get this vaccine routinely? And what if mom shoots up with a pal a month after she gives birth, while she continues to breast feed. This happens.

A. Mulick, Ph.D.

Professor, Pediatrics & Psychology

The Ohio State University

Columbus Children's Hospital

700 Children's Drive. CHPB-4

Columbus, OH 43205-2696

[No institutional endorsement of message content implied]

[Guest guest]

So do I understand you correctly that, in your 30-year career of working with approximately 3,000 children with autism, once their heavy metal burden was reduced you saw no improvements?

Missy

-----Original Message-----From: james A. Mulick [mailto:mulick.1@...] Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2003 3:04 PMautism Subject: RE: Flu Mist Vaccine campaign

A. Mulick, Ph.D.

Professor, Pediatrics & Psychology

The Ohio State University

Columbus Children's Hospital

700 Children's Drive. CHPB-4

Columbus, OH 43205-2696

[No institutional endorsement of message content implied]

-----Original Message-----From: M. [mailto:wmks1983@...] Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2003 2:56 PMautism Subject: RE: Flu Mist Vaccine campaignThat is just it, after about 3000 kids with autism (yes, kids with autism, not kids in general) in a career of almost 30 years, this is just exactly what I have not seen.

No evidence. I don't understand how you can say that. If someone is tested for evidence of heavy metal toxicity and it's positive, then chelation steps are taken and the metal levels are reduced, and the person's quality of life (i.e. socialization, immunological responses, language abilities to name a few) improve, how can that not be evidence of the harmful affects of heavy metal toxicity? [james A. Mulick]

That is just it, after about 3000 kids with autism (yes, kids with autism, not kids in general) in a career of almost 30 years, this is just exactly what I have not seen.

I recall a respected orthopedist once explaining to me that the physician community, as a whole, refused to endorse aspirin therapy for years because they didn't understand exactly how it worked. They knew it worked, yes, but until they could scientifically explain how it worked they wouldn't endorse it. [james A. Mulick]

That is what they say, no question about it. It is just that saying something, even if you say it often and vigorously, is not the same as evidence. The scientific evidence fails to confirm these sayings.

So, I know there are studies out there by families and health care providers who treat children with autism who say that Thimerosal exacerbates a child's autistic symptoms, and once the mercury burden in the child's body is reduced the child's autistic symptoms decreases. And, I know that there are studies out that were funded by the manufacturers of the vaccines containing Thimerosal that say that mercury has no affect on children with autism. I can speak from first hand experience that once we reduced the mercury burden in my daughter's body her language abilities and socialization increased dramatically, and her anxiety levels reduced. Her evident exposure to mercury was (a) my receiving a RhoGam injection while she was in utero and ( during her vaccines.

[james A. Mulick] It is not a matter of mere responsibility. If it were, it would be easy. The problem is understanding, though, isn't it?

It's not my responsibility to know what preservative alternatives there are for vaccines. It's the responsibility of those who manufacture the vaccines, and those who endorse and approve them, to ensure their safety. I may be considered limited in my ability to understand medical research, but I understand thoroughly my child's response to the removal of mercury from her body.

[james A. Mulick] <snip>

[Guest guest]

I am sorry you are tormented by this reprint, which I read with interest. From the number of responses alone, I thought there was interest in the topic. Obviously, if you are not interested, you can delete the message. I will not post on the topic in response to you in this thread again, and again, with my apologies.

A. Mulick, Ph.D.

Professor, Pediatrics & Psychology

The Ohio State University

Columbus Children's Hospital

700 Children's Drive. CHPB-4

Columbus, OH 43205-2696

[No institutional endorsement of message content implied]

-----Original Message-----From: M. [mailto:wmks1983@...] Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2003 4:20 PMautism Subject: RE: Flu Mist Vaccine campaign

What is your point in sending this article? I'm beginning to think your sole purpose in carrying on this dialogue with parents is to torment them.

[Guest guest]

Interest has been in the topic of mercury in vaccines, and the detriment it causes. I'm not tormented, I personally put no weight to your advice or comments. I'm just very dismayed that you've spent this much time debating an issue with parents when it's apparent your purpose is not to assist or inform, but to passive aggressively torment and antagonize.

If you sincerely don't realize where this topic is centered, then maybe you should leave it alone.

-----Original Message-----From: james A. Mulick [mailto:mulick.1@...] Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2003 4:30 PMautism Subject: RE: Flu Mist Vaccine campaign

I am sorry you are tormented by this reprint, which I read with interest. From the number of responses alone, I thought there was interest in the topic. Obviously, if you are not interested, you can delete the message. I will not post on the topic in response to you in this thread again, and again, with my apologies.

A. Mulick, Ph.D.

Professor, Pediatrics & Psychology

The Ohio State University

Columbus Children's Hospital

700 Children's Drive. CHPB-4

Columbus, OH 43205-2696

[No institutional endorsement of message content implied]

-----Original Message-----From: M. [mailto:wmks1983@...] Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2003 4:20 PMautism Subject: RE: Flu Mist Vaccine campaign

What is your point in sending this article? I'm beginning to think your sole purpose in carrying on this dialogue with parents is to torment them.

[Guest guest]

That is a public health decision that is/was made well above my pay grade. If you are interested in my researching the topic for you, it will have to wait. You can research the topic yourself, and I would be interested in what you find, by beginning at the CDC Vaccine information site.at http://www.cdc.gov/nip/publications/VIS/vis-hep-b.txt. That is only the first step. Then you have to see what you State DOH says about it, and why it is mandated or offered or whatever in you state. There are usually statements of justification in such descriptions of public health policy. Then, with these justifications in hand, you might need to verify their truth by going to the peer reviewed research literature with more specific search terms.

Obviously, by the same token (re: your first paragraph), given your state at the time of the birth of your child, responsible authorities could not leave it to you or any other parent to think of all the essential things that must be done to assure that you child will grow up as healthy as possible. That is why some of these things are mandated by the government based on research and the processes of official decision making, some of which are political, economic, practical, and so on. I would not have thought to request the tests and immunizations my son has received as he grew up, let alone at the time he was born.

A. Mulick, Ph.D.

Professor, Pediatrics & Psychology

The Ohio State University

Columbus Children's Hospital

700 Children's Drive. CHPB-4

Columbus, OH 43205-2696

[No institutional endorsement of message content implied]

-----Original Message-----From: Penny [mailto:nospam@...] Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2003 3:32 PMautism Subject: RE: Flu Mist Vaccine campaign

But that does not justify vaccinating a child at birth! When my daughter was vaccinated, (she is autistic) she was a day old. I was EXHAUSTED. I had NO information, no time to do any research, and was basically told "This is what's done now." Who was *I* to say no? We thought about it, and were "scared" enough into it to do it. I know people that have been threatened with CPS if they didn't have it done!

My son did not have the vaccine. He is 21 now, and perfectly normal (as any 21 year old can be). I DID have to have him vaccinated as a teen, though. So if isn't feasible to predict, then why not wait until a child is at an age where he/she could be at risk?

Penny

-----Original Message-----From: james A. Mulick [mailto:mulick.1@...]Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2003 11:16 AMautism Subject: RE: Flu Mist Vaccine campaign

Penny, If it were feasible to test or predict who should get it,that would be done. Right now this is not practical to do effectively.

A. Mulick, Ph.D.

Professor, Pediatrics & Psychology

The Ohio State University

Columbus Children's Hospital

700 Children's Drive. CHPB-4

Columbus, OH 43205-2696

[No institutional endorsement of message content implied]

[Guest guest]

I answered this already.

A. Mulick, Ph.D.

Professor, Pediatrics & Psychology

The Ohio State University

Columbus Children's Hospital

700 Children's Drive. CHPB-4

Columbus, OH 43205-2696

[No institutional endorsement of message content implied]

Re: Flu Mist Vaccine campaign

> >

> >

> > Mr. Mulick,

> >

> > You are just being rude. You are nothing more then a

paid " Talking

> > Mouth " who doesn't do his homework. The 's retained you

for

> > help, and you provided them with nothing. You didn't bother doing

> > your work in ex rel v. Olathe Dist. Sch. Unified Sch.

Dist.

> > No 233. The judge decided your opinion isn't necessary, making

you

> > person non grata. <snip> _______________________________________

> >

> >

> > If you knew what you were talking about, you'd know that the

> exclusion

> > of my testimony in #233 was because of a technicality, and that

the

> > school's lawyer did not want my opinion entered into the public

> record.

> > Such are the risks of incomplete understanding of a legal

citation!

> The

> > school's lawyer wanted to exclude my testimony because it

supported

> the

> > parent's case. It had nothing to do with my homework, or anybody

> else's.

> > A strategy of the parent's lawyer involving my opinion did not

work

> and

> > my opinion was excluded. However, with the parents' permission I

was

> > able to use that expressed opinion in a memorial article about

the

> death

> > of Professor M. Baer. Here is the article and you will be

> able to

> > tell from it that I was asked to offer an opinion about Professor

> Baer:

> >

> > Reprinted from Psychology in Mental Retardation and Developmental

> > Disabilities

> >

> > Don Baer, Passing, Will be Missed

> >

> > By A. Mulick

> > Department of Pediatrics

> > The Ohio State University

> >

> > M. Baer, Division 33 Fellow and winner of the Edgar Doll

> Award

> > passed away at his home on April 28, 2002. He died unexpectedly

of

> heart

> > failure. He had just celebrated his planned May retirement from

the

> > University of Kansas with a conference attended by over 100

leading

> > behavioral scientists who joined together to praise his many

> > achievements over a long and greatly influential scientific

career.

> At

> > the conference, he was presented with a three-volume festschrift

of

> > scholarly papers. He was quoted by one of his colleagues as

saying

> the

> > Baerfest, as it was called, had been the happiest weekend of his

> life.

> >

> > On a personal note, I was in Kansas for a conference and missed

the

> > Baerfest by a few days because I had to return to Columbus, OH,

to

> get

> > ready for my son's birthday celebration. It was not the first

time

> I had

> > been to Lawrence. In fact the last time I had been there, it was

to

> > testify at a due process hearing in a nearby town. I had served

with

> > Professor Baer as an expert witness on behalf of the same child

and

> his

> > family. My role, besides attesting to the fact that my evaluation

> of the

> > child indicated that behavioral services should be provided to the

> > youngster, was to offer an informed opinion as to Professor Baer's

> > qualifications to supervise and make recommendations about the

> content

> > and implementation of parts of the overall applied behavior

analysis

> > program. This was actually disputed by two of

the " professionals " -

> one

> > was actually a colleague of Professor Baer's on the faculty of KU

in

> > another academic unit -- hired by the school to discredit the

> parent's

> > IEP requests and their expert witnesses. When I understood what

was

> > asked of me I was a bit embarrassed, but nevertheless happy to

> swear to

> > the truth of the contention that Professor Baer was most

qualified

> to

> > help this youngster and his family. My affidavit read in part as

> > follows:

> >

> > * I have been asked whether I am aware of the scholarly work of

> > Professor M. Baer. No one working in either child

psychology

> or

> > behavioral psychology, or who is familiar with the science of

> behavior

> > analysis can possibly be unaware of the scientific and

humanitarian

> > contributions of Professor Baer to these fields. One of the

> founders of

> > the sub-field of Applied Behavior Analysis, his scholarly work

has

> been

> > a primary source for me throughout my career in my own efforts to

> > understand individual behavior using the scientific method. He

and

> his

> > students and close collaborators have contributed a significant

> portion

> > of the entire empirical data base in applied behavior analysis

> since the

> > 1960s, and his theoretical writings have been and still are

required

> > reading in all doctoral programs in these fields in North America

> and

> > wherever behavior analysis is studied. His work was required

> reading for

> > me during my graduate training, and I assign his writings to my

own

> > doctoral students. I have had the good fortune to work with some

of

> his

> > doctoral students after they graduated. On many occasions, I have

> heard

> > him lecture at national meetings. I have never worked directly

with

> him.

> > He is a widely and justifiably well-recognized leader in American

> > psychology.

> > *

> > * I have been asked whether I consider Professor Baer to be

> > qualified as an expert in applied behavior analysis. As my

previous

> > response would suggest, I do so consider him to be such an expert.

> > Further, he his among the very best authorities on the field and

> > application of applied behavior analysis in the world.

> > *

> > * I have been asked whether I consider Professor Baer to be an

> > authority on generalization [of learning]. I do consider him to

be

> an

> > expert on the process of generalization as it applies to learning

in

> > humans, especially in matters related to promoting the practical

> > generalization of learned behavior. His scholarly contributions to

> > defining the conditions under which generalization can be

expected

> to

> > occur in natural settings have served as fundamental to my own

> > understanding of these phenomena.

> > *

> > * I have been asked to comment on the proposition that the

> > transition of a child with autism from one setting to another,

with

> the

> > purpose of maintaining behavior, is an exercise in generalization.

> > Generalization refers to the performance of behavior learned

under

> one

> > set of conditions in other sets of conditions (or to the control

of

> > behavior by conditions differing from those under which the

> behavior was

> > initially acquired); it also refers to the control of different

> behavior

> > by stimuli or events in the environment that previously did not

> control

> > that behavior or that controlled other behavior. The limits of

such

> > stimulus and response generalization has been a major topic of

> research

> > in the psychology of learning for most of the 20th Century, but

the

> > field of applied behavior analysis has concentrated on the

reliable

> > promoting of desirable generalization of either type when it is

> > considered useful to the individual, and to the prevention of

> > generalization of either type when it would be undesirable.

> Clearly, the

> > performance of useful behavior learned at home in the school

> setting, or

> > the performance of useful behavior learned at school in the home,

> would

> > be examples of generalization of learning as I understand it.

> Likewise,

> > the prevention of generalization of undesirable behavior across

> settings

> > is another example of generalization. Obviously, planned

> maintenance of

> > desirable behavior across settings is also an example of one type

of

> > generalization.

> > *

> > * I have been asked whether I believe Dr. Baer is qualified to

> > develop a transition plan for a child with autism. I would expect

> > Professor Baer to be thorough and skilled when performing such a

> task. I

> > know he would have unusual access to assistance from qualified

> > colleagues to review his transition plan; and that he would

> recognize

> > his limitations and seek collaboration and information to the

extent

> > that he had the need or had any doubts or questions about the

> > completeness or feasibility of his transition plan. He would be

most

> > well qualified to develop a transition plan for a child with

autism.

> > *

> > * In addition, I would like to point out, the U.S. Surgeon

> General

> > in his Report on Mental Health (1999) states, in connection with

> autism

> > treatment:

> > * Given the severity of the impairment, high intensity of

> service

> > needs, and costs (both human and financial), there has been an on-

> going

> > search for effective treatment. Thirty years of research

> demonstrated

> > the efficacy of applied behavioral methods in reducing

inappropriate

> > behavior and in increasing communication, learning, and

appropriate

> > social behavior. A well designed study of psychosocial

> intervention was

> > carried out by Lovaas and colleagues (Lovaas, 1987; McEachin et

al,

> > 1993). Nineteen children with autism were treated intensively

with

> > behavior therapy for 2 years and compared with two control groups.

> > Follow-up of the experimental group in the first grade, in late

> > childhood, and in adolescence found that nearly half the

> experimental

> > group but almost none of the children in the matched control

group

> were

> > able to participate in regular schooling. Up to this point, a

> number of

> > other research groups have provided at least a partial

replication

> of

> > the Lovaas model (see , 1998).

> >

> > * It was a good deal of Professor Baer's and his close

> colleagues'

> > work to which General Satcher referred when he cited " applied

> > behavioral " work over the last thirty years. Professor Baer was

> with Dr.

> > Lovaas when they and other pioneers of applied behavior analysis

> first

> > demonstrated the effectiveness and range of the technology of

> teaching

> > and behavior change that today we call ABA. It was this

technology

> of

> > teaching that was employed in the study by Lovaas that General

> Satcher

> > asserted markedly ameliorated the autistic behavior of many of

> those 19

> > children with autism. When we know what works with a child who

needs

> > specialized assistance, there can be no excuse for doing

something

> else.

> > When we know what produces undesirable outcomes for a child,

> > continuation of the detrimental procedures is surely wrong. I am

> > confident these principles must be recognized in law just as they

> are

> > surely morally self-evident. Professor Baer has the scientific

> knowledge

> > concerning how to determine what is effective with [this child]

and

> what

> > has or will cause him harm and produce failure. He should be

> regarded as

> > a professional asset of the highest quality to [this child's]

> > educational team.

> >

> > Most of what I know about applied behavior analysis has a Don Baer

> > flavor to it. My love of the field and the sense that it is a

> powerful

> > tool for doing good for so many different kinds of people and for

> > solving so many different kinds of problems has a Don Baer smile

> behind

> > it. Todd Risley and Montrose Wolf were co-authors with Baer of

the

> paper

> > that first defined the field of 'applied behavior analysis.' We

all

> will

> > miss his wisdom, humor, and intellectual leadership, but we will

> not be

> > able to think about applied behavior analysis without thinking of

>

> > M. Baer with gratitude.

> >

> >

> >

> > A. Mulick, Ph.D.

> > Professor, Pediatrics & Psychology

> > The Ohio State University

> > Columbus Children's Hospital

> > 700 Children's Drive. CHPB-4

> > Columbus, OH 43205-2696

> > [No institutional endorsement of message content implied]

[Guest guest]

Dr. Mulick will probably be slamming me for this, the other expert

for the 's is Dr. BAER. The problem IEP was created by Dr.

BARONE. I made a mistake in reading and typing at the same time.

> >

> >

> > Chuck!

> >

> > I guess you decided, " No more mister nice guy! " , huh? [Read that

as

> > irony]

> >

> > BTW, by whom do you suppose I am paid? You'd be wrong. I have no

> private

> > practice, being employed 100% full time, and what I do

> professionally

> > results in no increase in my pay, including helping parents with

> their

> > due process efforts as a part of my regular employment.

> >

> > Re: Flu Mist Vaccine campaign

> >

> >

> > Mr. Mulick,

> >

> > You are just being rude. You are nothing more then a

paid " Talking

> > Mouth " who doesn't do his homework. The 's retained you

for

> > help, and you provided them with nothing. You didn't bother doing

> > your work in ex rel v. Olathe Dist. Sch. Unified Sch.

Dist.

> > No 233. The judge decided your opinion isn't necessary, making

you

> > person non grata. <snip>

> > _______________________________________

> >

> >

> > If you knew what you were talking about, you'd know that the

> exclusion

> > of my testimony in #233 was because of a technicality, and that

the

> > school's lawyer did not want my opinion entered into the public

> record.

> > Such are the risks of incomplete understanding of a legal

citation!

> The

> > school's lawyer wanted to exclude my testimony because it

supported

> the

> > parent's case. It had nothing to do with my homework, or anybody

> else's.

> > A strategy of the parent's lawyer involving my opinion did not

work

> and

> > my opinion was excluded. However, with the parents' permission I

was

> > able to use that expressed opinion in a memorial article about

the

> death

> > of Professor M. Baer. Here is the article and you will be

> able to

> > tell from it that I was asked to offer an opinion about Professor

> Baer:

> >

> > Reprinted from Psychology in Mental Retardation and Developmental

> > Disabilities

> >

> > Don Baer, Passing, Will be Missed

> >

> > By A. Mulick

> > Department of Pediatrics

> > The Ohio State University

> >

> > M. Baer, Division 33 Fellow and winner of the Edgar Doll

> Award

> > passed away at his home on April 28, 2002. He died unexpectedly

of

> heart

> > failure. He had just celebrated his planned May retirement from

the

> > University of Kansas with a conference attended by over 100

leading

> > behavioral scientists who joined together to praise his many

> > achievements over a long and greatly influential scientific

career.

> At

> > the conference, he was presented with a three-volume festschrift

of

> > scholarly papers. He was quoted by one of his colleagues as

saying

> the

> > Baerfest, as it was called, had been the happiest weekend of his

> life.

> >

> > On a personal note, I was in Kansas for a conference and missed

the

> > Baerfest by a few days because I had to return to Columbus, OH,

to

> get

> > ready for my son's birthday celebration. It was not the first

time

> I had

> > been to Lawrence. In fact the last time I had been there, it was

to

> > testify at a due process hearing in a nearby town. I had served

with

> > Professor Baer as an expert witness on behalf of the same child

and

> his

> > family. My role, besides attesting to the fact that my evaluation

> of the

> > child indicated that behavioral services should be provided to the

> > youngster, was to offer an informed opinion as to Professor Baer's

> > qualifications to supervise and make recommendations about the

> content

> > and implementation of parts of the overall applied behavior

analysis

> > program. This was actually disputed by two of

the " professionals " -

> one

> > was actually a colleague of Professor Baer's on the faculty of KU

in

> > another academic unit -- hired by the school to discredit the

> parent's

> > IEP requests and their expert witnesses. When I understood what

was

> > asked of me I was a bit embarrassed, but nevertheless happy to

> swear to

> > the truth of the contention that Professor Baer was most

qualified

> to

> > help this youngster and his family. My affidavit read in part as

> > follows:

> >

> > * I have been asked whether I am aware of the scholarly work of

> > Professor M. Baer. No one working in either child

psychology

> or

> > behavioral psychology, or who is familiar with the science of

> behavior

> > analysis can possibly be unaware of the scientific and

humanitarian

> > contributions of Professor Baer to these fields. One of the

> founders of

> > the sub-field of Applied Behavior Analysis, his scholarly work

has

> been

> > a primary source for me throughout my career in my own efforts to

> > understand individual behavior using the scientific method. He

and

> his

> > students and close collaborators have contributed a significant

> portion

> > of the entire empirical data base in applied behavior analysis

> since the

> > 1960s, and his theoretical writings have been and still are

required

> > reading in all doctoral programs in these fields in North America

> and

> > wherever behavior analysis is studied. His work was required

> reading for

> > me during my graduate training, and I assign his writings to my

own

> > doctoral students. I have had the good fortune to work with some

of

> his

> > doctoral students after they graduated. On many occasions, I have

> heard

> > him lecture at national meetings. I have never worked directly

with

> him.

> > He is a widely and justifiably well-recognized leader in American

> > psychology.

> > *

> > * I have been asked whether I consider Professor Baer to be

> > qualified as an expert in applied behavior analysis. As my

previous

> > response would suggest, I do so consider him to be such an expert.

> > Further, he his among the very best authorities on the field and

> > application of applied behavior analysis in the world.

> > *

> > * I have been asked whether I consider Professor Baer to be an

> > authority on generalization [of learning]. I do consider him to

be

> an

> > expert on the process of generalization as it applies to learning

in

> > humans, especially in matters related to promoting the practical

> > generalization of learned behavior. His scholarly contributions to

> > defining the conditions under which generalization can be

expected

> to

> > occur in natural settings have served as fundamental to my own

> > understanding of these phenomena.

> > *

> > * I have been asked to comment on the proposition that the

> > transition of a child with autism from one setting to another,

with

> the

> > purpose of maintaining behavior, is an exercise in generalization.

> > Generalization refers to the performance of behavior learned

under

> one

> > set of conditions in other sets of conditions (or to the control

of

> > behavior by conditions differing from those under which the

> behavior was

> > initially acquired); it also refers to the control of different

> behavior

> > by stimuli or events in the environment that previously did not

> control

> > that behavior or that controlled other behavior. The limits of

such

> > stimulus and response generalization has been a major topic of

> research

> > in the psychology of learning for most of the 20th Century, but

the

> > field of applied behavior analysis has concentrated on the

reliable

> > promoting of desirable generalization of either type when it is

> > considered useful to the individual, and to the prevention of

> > generalization of either type when it would be undesirable.

> Clearly, the

> > performance of useful behavior learned at home in the school

> setting, or

> > the performance of useful behavior learned at school in the home,

> would

> > be examples of generalization of learning as I understand it.

> Likewise,

> > the prevention of generalization of undesirable behavior across

> settings

> > is another example of generalization. Obviously, planned

> maintenance of

> > desirable behavior across settings is also an example of one type

of

> > generalization.

> > *

> > * I have been asked whether I believe Dr. Baer is qualified to

> > develop a transition plan for a child with autism. I would expect

> > Professor Baer to be thorough and skilled when performing such a

> task. I

> > know he would have unusual access to assistance from qualified

> > colleagues to review his transition plan; and that he would

> recognize

> > his limitations and seek collaboration and information to the

extent

> > that he had the need or had any doubts or questions about the

> > completeness or feasibility of his transition plan. He would be

most

> > well qualified to develop a transition plan for a child with

autism.

> > *

> > * In addition, I would like to point out, the U.S. Surgeon

> General

> > in his Report on Mental Health (1999) states, in connection with

> autism

> > treatment:

> > * Given the severity of the impairment, high intensity of

> service

> > needs, and costs (both human and financial), there has been an on-

> going

> > search for effective treatment. Thirty years of research

> demonstrated

> > the efficacy of applied behavioral methods in reducing

inappropriate

> > behavior and in increasing communication, learning, and

appropriate

> > social behavior. A well designed study of psychosocial

> intervention was

> > carried out by Lovaas and colleagues (Lovaas, 1987; McEachin et

al,

> > 1993). Nineteen children with autism were treated intensively

with

> > behavior therapy for 2 years and compared with two control groups.

> > Follow-up of the experimental group in the first grade, in late

> > childhood, and in adolescence found that nearly half the

> experimental

> > group but almost none of the children in the matched control

group

> were

> > able to participate in regular schooling. Up to this point, a

> number of

> > other research groups have provided at least a partial

replication

> of

> > the Lovaas model (see , 1998).

> >

> > * It was a good deal of Professor Baer's and his close

> colleagues'

> > work to which General Satcher referred when he cited " applied

> > behavioral " work over the last thirty years. Professor Baer was

> with Dr.

> > Lovaas when they and other pioneers of applied behavior analysis

> first

> > demonstrated the effectiveness and range of the technology of

> teaching

> > and behavior change that today we call ABA. It was this

technology

> of

> > teaching that was employed in the study by Lovaas that General

> Satcher

> > asserted markedly ameliorated the autistic behavior of many of

> those 19

> > children with autism. When we know what works with a child who

needs

> > specialized assistance, there can be no excuse for doing

something

> else.

> > When we know what produces undesirable outcomes for a child,

> > continuation of the detrimental procedures is surely wrong. I am

> > confident these principles must be recognized in law just as they

> are

> > surely morally self-evident. Professor Baer has the scientific

> knowledge

> > concerning how to determine what is effective with [this child]

and

> what

> > has or will cause him harm and produce failure. He should be

> regarded as

> > a professional asset of the highest quality to [this child's]

> > educational team.

> >

> > Most of what I know about applied behavior analysis has a Don Baer

> > flavor to it. My love of the field and the sense that it is a

> powerful

> > tool for doing good for so many different kinds of people and for

> > solving so many different kinds of problems has a Don Baer smile

> behind

> > it. Todd Risley and Montrose Wolf were co-authors with Baer of

the

> paper

> > that first defined the field of 'applied behavior analysis.' We

all

> will

> > miss his wisdom, humor, and intellectual leadership, but we will

> not be

> > able to think about applied behavior analysis without thinking of

>

> > M. Baer with gratitude.

> >

> >

> >

> > A. Mulick, Ph.D.

> > Professor, Pediatrics & Psychology

> > The Ohio State University

> > Columbus Children's Hospital

> > 700 Children's Drive. CHPB-4

> > Columbus, OH 43205-2696

> > [No institutional endorsement of message content implied]

[Guest guest]

That is just not what the parties tell me. I would love to demonstrate

to your audience just how you are grasping at unwarranted inferences

from the things you read on the internet, but to do so I'd have to go

beyond the public record. Dirty pool, Chuck. You know I can't do that.

Perhaps someone else involved might read this and answer from their

perspective, and that would end this game. Your reaction is just like

every other anti-vaccination person I have ever encountered, if you

can't argue with facts or reason, you resort to word magic and innuendo

and outright lying.

Re: Flu Mist Vaccine campaign

>

>

> Mr. Mulick,

>

> You are just being rude. You are nothing more then a paid " Talking

> Mouth " who doesn't do his homework. The 's retained you for

> help, and you provided them with nothing. You didn't bother doing

> your work in ex rel v. Olathe Dist. Sch. Unified Sch. Dist.

> No 233. The judge decided your opinion isn't necessary, making you

> person non grata. <snip>

> _______________________________________

>

>

> If you knew what you were talking about, you'd know that the

exclusion

> of my testimony in #233 was because of a technicality, and that the

> school's lawyer did not want my opinion entered into the public

record.

> Such are the risks of incomplete understanding of a legal citation!

The

> school's lawyer wanted to exclude my testimony because it supported

the

> parent's case. It had nothing to do with my homework, or anybody

else's.

> A strategy of the parent's lawyer involving my opinion did not work

and

> my opinion was excluded. However, with the parents' permission I was

> able to use that expressed opinion in a memorial article about the

death

> of Professor M. Baer. Here is the article and you will be

able to

> tell from it that I was asked to offer an opinion about Professor

Baer:

>

> Reprinted from Psychology in Mental Retardation and Developmental

> Disabilities

>

> Don Baer, Passing, Will be Missed

>

> By A. Mulick

> Department of Pediatrics

> The Ohio State University

>

> M. Baer, Division 33 Fellow and winner of the Edgar Doll

Award

> passed away at his home on April 28, 2002. He died unexpectedly of

heart

> failure. He had just celebrated his planned May retirement from the

> University of Kansas with a conference attended by over 100 leading

> behavioral scientists who joined together to praise his many

> achievements over a long and greatly influential scientific career.

At

> the conference, he was presented with a three-volume festschrift of

> scholarly papers. He was quoted by one of his colleagues as saying

the

> Baerfest, as it was called, had been the happiest weekend of his

life.

>

> On a personal note, I was in Kansas for a conference and missed the

> Baerfest by a few days because I had to return to Columbus, OH, to

get

> ready for my son's birthday celebration. It was not the first time

I had

> been to Lawrence. In fact the last time I had been there, it was to

> testify at a due process hearing in a nearby town. I had served with

> Professor Baer as an expert witness on behalf of the same child and

his

> family. My role, besides attesting to the fact that my evaluation

of the

> child indicated that behavioral services should be provided to the

> youngster, was to offer an informed opinion as to Professor Baer's

> qualifications to supervise and make recommendations about the

content

> and implementation of parts of the overall applied behavior analysis

> program. This was actually disputed by two of the " professionals " -

one

> was actually a colleague of Professor Baer's on the faculty of KU in

> another academic unit -- hired by the school to discredit the

parent's

> IEP requests and their expert witnesses. When I understood what was

> asked of me I was a bit embarrassed, but nevertheless happy to

swear to

> the truth of the contention that Professor Baer was most qualified

to

> help this youngster and his family. My affidavit read in part as

> follows:

>

> * I have been asked whether I am aware of the scholarly work of

> Professor M. Baer. No one working in either child psychology

or

> behavioral psychology, or who is familiar with the science of

behavior

> analysis can possibly be unaware of the scientific and humanitarian

> contributions of Professor Baer to these fields. One of the

founders of

> the sub-field of Applied Behavior Analysis, his scholarly work has

been

> a primary source for me throughout my career in my own efforts to

> understand individual behavior using the scientific method. He and

his

> students and close collaborators have contributed a significant

portion

> of the entire empirical data base in applied behavior analysis

since the

> 1960s, and his theoretical writings have been and still are required

> reading in all doctoral programs in these fields in North America

and

> wherever behavior analysis is studied. His work was required

reading for

> me during my graduate training, and I assign his writings to my own

> doctoral students. I have had the good fortune to work with some of

his

> doctoral students after they graduated. On many occasions, I have

heard

> him lecture at national meetings. I have never worked directly with

him.

> He is a widely and justifiably well-recognized leader in American

> psychology.

> *

> * I have been asked whether I consider Professor Baer to be

> qualified as an expert in applied behavior analysis. As my previous

> response would suggest, I do so consider him to be such an expert.

> Further, he his among the very best authorities on the field and

> application of applied behavior analysis in the world.

> *

> * I have been asked whether I consider Professor Baer to be an

> authority on generalization [of learning]. I do consider him to be

an

> expert on the process of generalization as it applies to learning in

> humans, especially in matters related to promoting the practical

> generalization of learned behavior. His scholarly contributions to

> defining the conditions under which generalization can be expected

to

> occur in natural settings have served as fundamental to my own

> understanding of these phenomena.

> *

> * I have been asked to comment on the proposition that the

> transition of a child with autism from one setting to another, with

the

> purpose of maintaining behavior, is an exercise in generalization.

> Generalization refers to the performance of behavior learned under

one

> set of conditions in other sets of conditions (or to the control of

> behavior by conditions differing from those under which the

behavior was

> initially acquired); it also refers to the control of different

behavior

> by stimuli or events in the environment that previously did not

control

> that behavior or that controlled other behavior. The limits of such

> stimulus and response generalization has been a major topic of

research

> in the psychology of learning for most of the 20th Century, but the

> field of applied behavior analysis has concentrated on the reliable

> promoting of desirable generalization of either type when it is

> considered useful to the individual, and to the prevention of

> generalization of either type when it would be undesirable.

Clearly, the

> performance of useful behavior learned at home in the school

setting, or

> the performance of useful behavior learned at school in the home,

would

> be examples of generalization of learning as I understand it.

Likewise,

> the prevention of generalization of undesirable behavior across

settings

> is another example of generalization. Obviously, planned

maintenance of

> desirable behavior across settings is also an example of one type of

> generalization.

> *

> * I have been asked whether I believe Dr. Baer is qualified to

> develop a transition plan for a child with autism. I would expect

> Professor Baer to be thorough and skilled when performing such a

task. I

> know he would have unusual access to assistance from qualified

> colleagues to review his transition plan; and that he would

recognize

> his limitations and seek collaboration and information to the extent

> that he had the need or had any doubts or questions about the

> completeness or feasibility of his transition plan. He would be most

> well qualified to develop a transition plan for a child with autism.

> *

> * In addition, I would like to point out, the U.S. Surgeon

General

> in his Report on Mental Health (1999) states, in connection with

autism

> treatment:

> * Given the severity of the impairment, high intensity of

service

> needs, and costs (both human and financial), there has been an on-

going

> search for effective treatment. Thirty years of research

demonstrated

> the efficacy of applied behavioral methods in reducing inappropriate

> behavior and in increasing communication, learning, and appropriate

> social behavior. A well designed study of psychosocial

intervention was

> carried out by Lovaas and colleagues (Lovaas, 1987; McEachin et al,

> 1993). Nineteen children with autism were treated intensively with

> behavior therapy for 2 years and compared with two control groups.

> Follow-up of the experimental group in the first grade, in late

> childhood, and in adolescence found that nearly half the

experimental

> group but almost none of the children in the matched control group

were

> able to participate in regular schooling. Up to this point, a

number of

> other research groups have provided at least a partial replication

of

> the Lovaas model (see , 1998).

>

> * It was a good deal of Professor Baer's and his close

colleagues'

> work to which General Satcher referred when he cited " applied

> behavioral " work over the last thirty years. Professor Baer was

with Dr.

> Lovaas when they and other pioneers of applied behavior analysis

first

> demonstrated the effectiveness and range of the technology of

teaching

> and behavior change that today we call ABA. It was this technology

of

> teaching that was employed in the study by Lovaas that General

Satcher

> asserted markedly ameliorated the autistic behavior of many of

those 19

> children with autism. When we know what works with a child who needs

> specialized assistance, there can be no excuse for doing something

else.

> When we know what produces undesirable outcomes for a child,

> continuation of the detrimental procedures is surely wrong. I am

> confident these principles must be recognized in law just as they

are

> surely morally self-evident. Professor Baer has the scientific

knowledge

> concerning how to determine what is effective with [this child] and

what

> has or will cause him harm and produce failure. He should be

regarded as

> a professional asset of the highest quality to [this child's]

> educational team.

>

> Most of what I know about applied behavior analysis has a Don Baer

> flavor to it. My love of the field and the sense that it is a

powerful

> tool for doing good for so many different kinds of people and for

> solving so many different kinds of problems has a Don Baer smile

behind

> it. Todd Risley and Montrose Wolf were co-authors with Baer of the

paper

> that first defined the field of 'applied behavior analysis.' We all

will

> miss his wisdom, humor, and intellectual leadership, but we will

not be

> able to think about applied behavior analysis without thinking of

> M. Baer with gratitude.

>

>

>

> A. Mulick, Ph.D.

> Professor, Pediatrics & Psychology

> The Ohio State University

> Columbus Children's Hospital

> 700 Children's Drive. CHPB-4

> Columbus, OH 43205-2696

> [No institutional endorsement of message content implied]

[Guest guest]

Wow - I'm not usually one to feed this kind of thing, but you do think a lot of yourself, don't you? Did I ask you to research this subject for me? No, I certainly did not. Are you saying that the "professionals" can't trust the state of mind of parents to make informed decisions? That's not what I said at all. It was more like "taking advantage of the situation" and KNOWING once parents researched this they in NO way would want their BABIES immunized for something that they have little or no chance of gettting.

I'd refer you to the following: "When your doctor is wrong: Hepatitis B and Autism" by Judy Converse, MPH, RD, but you'd probably just tear that apart as well.

Again, I ask you, are you the parent of an Autistic child?

The "professionals" gave my child an unnecessary vaccine. Period. They didn't WANT to give me a chance to reject it.

Penny - who doesn't have a Ph. D., but CERTAINLY knows more about Autism than most people... Ph. D.'s included.

-----Original Message-----From: james A. Mulick [mailto:mulick.1@...]Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2003 2:49 PMautism Subject: RE: Flu Mist Vaccine campaign

That is a public health decision that is/was made well above my pay grade. If you are interested in my researching the topic for you, it will have to wait. You can research the topic yourself, and I would be interested in what you find, by beginning at the CDC Vaccine information site.at http://www.cdc.gov/nip/publications/VIS/vis-hep-b.txt. That is only the first step. Then you have to see what you State DOH says about it, and why it is mandated or offered or whatever in you state. There are usually statements of justification in such descriptions of public health policy. Then, with these justifications in hand, you might need to verify their truth by going to the peer reviewed research literature with more specific search terms.

Obviously, by the same token (re: your first paragraph), given your state at the time of the birth of your child, responsible authorities could not leave it to you or any other parent to think of all the essential things that must be done to assure that you child will grow up as healthy as possible. That is why some of these things are mandated by the government based on research and the processes of official decision making, some of which are political, economic, practical, and so on. I would not have thought to request the tests and immunizations my son has received as he grew up, let alone at the time he was born.

A. Mulick, Ph.D.

Professor, Pediatrics & Psychology

The Ohio State University

Columbus Children's Hospital

700 Children's Drive. CHPB-4

Columbus, OH 43205-2696

[No institutional endorsement of message content implied]

[Guest guest]

if youcan't argue with facts or reason, you resort to word magic and innuendoand outright lying.

Funny, that's the same thing I feel you're doing....

If you don't have a child with autism, I suggest you excuse yourself from this group. Your using the phrase "anti-vaccination" is a clear indicator that you're not open minded on the subject, and clearly explains your purpose in being here. For any professional who works with families of children with special needs to begin name calling is appalling and a disgrace to your profession.

Re: Flu Mist Vaccine campaign> > > Mr. Mulick,> > You are just being rude. You are nothing more then a paid "Talking> Mouth" who doesn't do his homework. The 's retained you for > help, and you provided them with nothing. You didn't bother doing > your work in ex rel v. Olathe Dist. Sch. Unified Sch. Dist. > No 233. The judge decided your opinion isn't necessary, making you > person non grata. <snip>> _______________________________________> > > If you knew what you were talking about, you'd know that theexclusion> of my testimony in #233 was because of a technicality, and that the > school's lawyer did not want my opinion entered into the publicrecord.> Such are the risks of incomplete understanding of a legal citation!The> school's lawyer wanted to exclude my testimony because it supportedthe> parent's case. It had nothing to do with my homework, or anybodyelse's.> A strategy of the parent's lawyer involving my opinion did not workand> my opinion was excluded. However, with the parents' permission I was > able to use that expressed opinion in a memorial article about thedeath> of Professor M. Baer. Here is the article and you will beable to> tell from it that I was asked to offer an opinion about ProfessorBaer: > > Reprinted from Psychology in Mental Retardation and Developmental > Disabilities> > Don Baer, Passing, Will be Missed> > By A. Mulick> Department of Pediatrics> The Ohio State University> > M. Baer, Division 33 Fellow and winner of the Edgar DollAward> passed away at his home on April 28, 2002. He died unexpectedly ofheart> failure. He had just celebrated his planned May retirement from the > University of Kansas with a conference attended by over 100 leading > behavioral scientists who joined together to praise his many > achievements over a long and greatly influential scientific career.At> the conference, he was presented with a three-volume festschrift of > scholarly papers. He was quoted by one of his colleagues as sayingthe> Baerfest, as it was called, had been the happiest weekend of hislife.> > On a personal note, I was in Kansas for a conference and missed the > Baerfest by a few days because I had to return to Columbus, OH, toget> ready for my son's birthday celebration. It was not the first timeI had> been to Lawrence. In fact the last time I had been there, it was to > testify at a due process hearing in a nearby town. I had served with > Professor Baer as an expert witness on behalf of the same child andhis> family. My role, besides attesting to the fact that my evaluationof the> child indicated that behavioral services should be provided to the > youngster, was to offer an informed opinion as to Professor Baer's > qualifications to supervise and make recommendations about thecontent> and implementation of parts of the overall applied behavior analysis > program. This was actually disputed by two of the "professionals" -one> was actually a colleague of Professor Baer's on the faculty of KU in > another academic unit -- hired by the school to discredit theparent's> IEP requests and their expert witnesses. When I understood what was > asked of me I was a bit embarrassed, but nevertheless happy toswear to> the truth of the contention that Professor Baer was most qualifiedto> help this youngster and his family. My affidavit read in part as> follows:> > * I have been asked whether I am aware of the scholarly work of> Professor M. Baer. No one working in either child psychologyor> behavioral psychology, or who is familiar with the science ofbehavior> analysis can possibly be unaware of the scientific and humanitarian > contributions of Professor Baer to these fields. One of thefounders of> the sub-field of Applied Behavior Analysis, his scholarly work hasbeen> a primary source for me throughout my career in my own efforts to > understand individual behavior using the scientific method. He andhis> students and close collaborators have contributed a significantportion> of the entire empirical data base in applied behavior analysissince the> 1960s, and his theoretical writings have been and still are required > reading in all doctoral programs in these fields in North Americaand> wherever behavior analysis is studied. His work was requiredreading for> me during my graduate training, and I assign his writings to my own > doctoral students. I have had the good fortune to work with some ofhis> doctoral students after they graduated. On many occasions, I haveheard> him lecture at national meetings. I have never worked directly withhim.> He is a widely and justifiably well-recognized leader in American > psychology.> * > * I have been asked whether I consider Professor Baer to be> qualified as an expert in applied behavior analysis. As my previous > response would suggest, I do so consider him to be such an expert. > Further, he his among the very best authorities on the field and > application of applied behavior analysis in the world.> * > * I have been asked whether I consider Professor Baer to be an> authority on generalization [of learning]. I do consider him to bean> expert on the process of generalization as it applies to learning in > humans, especially in matters related to promoting the practical > generalization of learned behavior. His scholarly contributions to > defining the conditions under which generalization can be expectedto> occur in natural settings have served as fundamental to my own > understanding of these phenomena.> * > * I have been asked to comment on the proposition that the> transition of a child with autism from one setting to another, withthe> purpose of maintaining behavior, is an exercise in generalization. > Generalization refers to the performance of behavior learned underone> set of conditions in other sets of conditions (or to the control of > behavior by conditions differing from those under which thebehavior was> initially acquired); it also refers to the control of differentbehavior> by stimuli or events in the environment that previously did notcontrol> that behavior or that controlled other behavior. The limits of such > stimulus and response generalization has been a major topic ofresearch> in the psychology of learning for most of the 20th Century, but the > field of applied behavior analysis has concentrated on the reliable > promoting of desirable generalization of either type when it is > considered useful to the individual, and to the prevention of > generalization of either type when it would be undesirable.Clearly, the> performance of useful behavior learned at home in the schoolsetting, or> the performance of useful behavior learned at school in the home,would> be examples of generalization of learning as I understand it.Likewise,> the prevention of generalization of undesirable behavior acrosssettings> is another example of generalization. Obviously, plannedmaintenance of> desirable behavior across settings is also an example of one type of > generalization.> * > * I have been asked whether I believe Dr. Baer is qualified to> develop a transition plan for a child with autism. I would expect > Professor Baer to be thorough and skilled when performing such atask. I> know he would have unusual access to assistance from qualified > colleagues to review his transition plan; and that he wouldrecognize> his limitations and seek collaboration and information to the extent > that he had the need or had any doubts or questions about the > completeness or feasibility of his transition plan. He would be most > well qualified to develop a transition plan for a child with autism.> * > * In addition, I would like to point out, the U.S. Surgeon General> in his Report on Mental Health (1999) states, in connection withautism> treatment:> * Given the severity of the impairment, high intensity of service> needs, and costs (both human and financial), there has been an on-going> search for effective treatment. Thirty years of researchdemonstrated> the efficacy of applied behavioral methods in reducing inappropriate > behavior and in increasing communication, learning, and appropriate > social behavior. A well designed study of psychosocialintervention was> carried out by Lovaas and colleagues (Lovaas, 1987; McEachin et al, > 1993). Nineteen children with autism were treated intensively with > behavior therapy for 2 years and compared with two control groups. > Follow-up of the experimental group in the first grade, in late > childhood, and in adolescence found that nearly half theexperimental> group but almost none of the children in the matched control groupwere> able to participate in regular schooling. Up to this point, anumber of> other research groups have provided at least a partial replicationof> the Lovaas model (see , 1998).> > * It was a good deal of Professor Baer's and his close colleagues'> work to which General Satcher referred when he cited "applied > behavioral" work over the last thirty years. Professor Baer waswith Dr.> Lovaas when they and other pioneers of applied behavior analysisfirst> demonstrated the effectiveness and range of the technology ofteaching> and behavior change that today we call ABA. It was this technologyof> teaching that was employed in the study by Lovaas that GeneralSatcher> asserted markedly ameliorated the autistic behavior of many ofthose 19> children with autism. When we know what works with a child who needs > specialized assistance, there can be no excuse for doing somethingelse.> When we know what produces undesirable outcomes for a child, > continuation of the detrimental procedures is surely wrong. I am > confident these principles must be recognized in law just as theyare> surely morally self-evident. Professor Baer has the scientificknowledge> concerning how to determine what is effective with [this child] andwhat> has or will cause him harm and produce failure. He should beregarded as> a professional asset of the highest quality to [this child's] > educational team.> > Most of what I know about applied behavior analysis has a Don Baer > flavor to it. My love of the field and the sense that it is apowerful> tool for doing good for so many different kinds of people and for > solving so many different kinds of problems has a Don Baer smilebehind> it. Todd Risley and Montrose Wolf were co-authors with Baer of thepaper> that first defined the field of 'applied behavior analysis.' We allwill> miss his wisdom, humor, and intellectual leadership, but we willnot be> able to think about applied behavior analysis without thinking of> M. Baer with gratitude.> > > > A. Mulick, Ph.D.> Professor, Pediatrics & Psychology> The Ohio State University> Columbus Children's Hospital> 700 Children's Drive. CHPB-4> Columbus, OH 43205-2696> [No institutional endorsement of message content implied]

[Guest guest]

You are capable of doing anything you want, except arguing with the

truth of public record.

> >

> >

> > Chuck!

> >

> > I guess you decided, " No more mister nice guy! " , huh? [Read that

as

> > irony]

> >

> > BTW, by whom do you suppose I am paid? You'd be wrong. I have no

> private

> > practice, being employed 100% full time, and what I do

> professionally

> > results in no increase in my pay, including helping parents with

> their

> > due process efforts as a part of my regular employment.

> >

> > Re: Flu Mist Vaccine campaign

> >

> >

> > Mr. Mulick,

> >

> > You are just being rude. You are nothing more then a paid " Talking

> > Mouth " who doesn't do his homework. The 's retained you

for

> > help, and you provided them with nothing. You didn't bother doing

> > your work in ex rel v. Olathe Dist. Sch. Unified Sch.

Dist.

> > No 233. The judge decided your opinion isn't necessary, making

you

> > person non grata. <snip>

> > _______________________________________

> >

> >

> > If you knew what you were talking about, you'd know that the

> exclusion

> > of my testimony in #233 was because of a technicality, and that

the

> > school's lawyer did not want my opinion entered into the public

> record.

> > Such are the risks of incomplete understanding of a legal

citation!

> The

> > school's lawyer wanted to exclude my testimony because it

supported

> the

> > parent's case. It had nothing to do with my homework, or anybody

> else's.

> > A strategy of the parent's lawyer involving my opinion did not

work

> and

> > my opinion was excluded. However, with the parents' permission I

was

> > able to use that expressed opinion in a memorial article about the

> death

> > of Professor M. Baer. Here is the article and you will be

> able to

> > tell from it that I was asked to offer an opinion about Professor

> Baer:

> >

> > Reprinted from Psychology in Mental Retardation and Developmental

> > Disabilities

> >

> > Don Baer, Passing, Will be Missed

> >

> > By A. Mulick

> > Department of Pediatrics

> > The Ohio State University

> >

> > M. Baer, Division 33 Fellow and winner of the Edgar Doll

> Award

> > passed away at his home on April 28, 2002. He died unexpectedly of

> heart

> > failure. He had just celebrated his planned May retirement from

the

> > University of Kansas with a conference attended by over 100

leading

> > behavioral scientists who joined together to praise his many

> > achievements over a long and greatly influential scientific

career.

> At

> > the conference, he was presented with a three-volume festschrift

of

> > scholarly papers. He was quoted by one of his colleagues as saying

> the

> > Baerfest, as it was called, had been the happiest weekend of his

> life.

> >

> > On a personal note, I was in Kansas for a conference and missed

the

> > Baerfest by a few days because I had to return to Columbus, OH, to

> get

> > ready for my son's birthday celebration. It was not the first time

> I had

> > been to Lawrence. In fact the last time I had been there, it was

to

> > testify at a due process hearing in a nearby town. I had served

with

> > Professor Baer as an expert witness on behalf of the same child

and

> his

> > family. My role, besides attesting to the fact that my evaluation

> of the

> > child indicated that behavioral services should be provided to

the

> > youngster, was to offer an informed opinion as to Professor

Baer's

> > qualifications to supervise and make recommendations about the

> content

> > and implementation of parts of the overall applied behavior

analysis

> > program. This was actually disputed by two of

the " professionals " -

> one

> > was actually a colleague of Professor Baer's on the faculty of KU

in

> > another academic unit -- hired by the school to discredit the

> parent's

> > IEP requests and their expert witnesses. When I understood what

was

> > asked of me I was a bit embarrassed, but nevertheless happy to

> swear to

> > the truth of the contention that Professor Baer was most qualified

> to

> > help this youngster and his family. My affidavit read in part as

> > follows:

> >

> > * I have been asked whether I am aware of the scholarly work of

> > Professor M. Baer. No one working in either child

psychology

> or

> > behavioral psychology, or who is familiar with the science of

> behavior

> > analysis can possibly be unaware of the scientific and

humanitarian

> > contributions of Professor Baer to these fields. One of the

> founders of

> > the sub-field of Applied Behavior Analysis, his scholarly work has

> been

> > a primary source for me throughout my career in my own efforts to

> > understand individual behavior using the scientific method. He and

> his

> > students and close collaborators have contributed a significant

> portion

> > of the entire empirical data base in applied behavior analysis

> since the

> > 1960s, and his theoretical writings have been and still are

required

> > reading in all doctoral programs in these fields in North America

> and

> > wherever behavior analysis is studied. His work was required

> reading for

> > me during my graduate training, and I assign his writings to my

own

> > doctoral students. I have had the good fortune to work with some

of

> his

> > doctoral students after they graduated. On many occasions, I have

> heard

> > him lecture at national meetings. I have never worked directly

with

> him.

> > He is a widely and justifiably well-recognized leader in American

> > psychology.

> > *

> > * I have been asked whether I consider Professor Baer to be

> > qualified as an expert in applied behavior analysis. As my

previous

> > response would suggest, I do so consider him to be such an

expert.

> > Further, he his among the very best authorities on the field and

> > application of applied behavior analysis in the world.

> > *

> > * I have been asked whether I consider Professor Baer to be an

> > authority on generalization [of learning]. I do consider him to be

> an

> > expert on the process of generalization as it applies to learning

in

> > humans, especially in matters related to promoting the practical

> > generalization of learned behavior. His scholarly contributions

to

> > defining the conditions under which generalization can be expected

> to

> > occur in natural settings have served as fundamental to my own

> > understanding of these phenomena.

> > *

> > * I have been asked to comment on the proposition that the

> > transition of a child with autism from one setting to another,

with

> the

> > purpose of maintaining behavior, is an exercise in

generalization.

> > Generalization refers to the performance of behavior learned under

> one

> > set of conditions in other sets of conditions (or to the control

of

> > behavior by conditions differing from those under which the

> behavior was

> > initially acquired); it also refers to the control of different

> behavior

> > by stimuli or events in the environment that previously did not

> control

> > that behavior or that controlled other behavior. The limits of

such

> > stimulus and response generalization has been a major topic of

> research

> > in the psychology of learning for most of the 20th Century, but

the

> > field of applied behavior analysis has concentrated on the

reliable

> > promoting of desirable generalization of either type when it is

> > considered useful to the individual, and to the prevention of

> > generalization of either type when it would be undesirable.

> Clearly, the

> > performance of useful behavior learned at home in the school

> setting, or

> > the performance of useful behavior learned at school in the home,

> would

> > be examples of generalization of learning as I understand it.

> Likewise,

> > the prevention of generalization of undesirable behavior across

> settings

> > is another example of generalization. Obviously, planned

> maintenance of

> > desirable behavior across settings is also an example of one type

of

> > generalization.

> > *

> > * I have been asked whether I believe Dr. Baer is qualified to

> > develop a transition plan for a child with autism. I would expect

> > Professor Baer to be thorough and skilled when performing such a

> task. I

> > know he would have unusual access to assistance from qualified

> > colleagues to review his transition plan; and that he would

> recognize

> > his limitations and seek collaboration and information to the

extent

> > that he had the need or had any doubts or questions about the

> > completeness or feasibility of his transition plan. He would be

most

> > well qualified to develop a transition plan for a child with

autism.

> > *

> > * In addition, I would like to point out, the U.S. Surgeon

> General

> > in his Report on Mental Health (1999) states, in connection with

> autism

> > treatment:

> > * Given the severity of the impairment, high intensity of

> service

> > needs, and costs (both human and financial), there has been an on-

> going

> > search for effective treatment. Thirty years of research

> demonstrated

> > the efficacy of applied behavioral methods in reducing

inappropriate

> > behavior and in increasing communication, learning, and

appropriate

> > social behavior. A well designed study of psychosocial

> intervention was

> > carried out by Lovaas and colleagues (Lovaas, 1987; McEachin et

al,

> > 1993). Nineteen children with autism were treated intensively

with

> > behavior therapy for 2 years and compared with two control

groups.

> > Follow-up of the experimental group in the first grade, in late

> > childhood, and in adolescence found that nearly half the

> experimental

> > group but almost none of the children in the matched control group

> were

> > able to participate in regular schooling. Up to this point, a

> number of

> > other research groups have provided at least a partial replication

> of

> > the Lovaas model (see , 1998).

> >

> > * It was a good deal of Professor Baer's and his close

> colleagues'

> > work to which General Satcher referred when he cited " applied

> > behavioral " work over the last thirty years. Professor Baer was

> with Dr.

> > Lovaas when they and other pioneers of applied behavior analysis

> first

> > demonstrated the effectiveness and range of the technology of

> teaching

> > and behavior change that today we call ABA. It was this technology

> of

> > teaching that was employed in the study by Lovaas that General

> Satcher

> > asserted markedly ameliorated the autistic behavior of many of

> those 19

> > children with autism. When we know what works with a child who

needs

> > specialized assistance, there can be no excuse for doing something

> else.

> > When we know what produces undesirable outcomes for a child,

> > continuation of the detrimental procedures is surely wrong. I am

> > confident these principles must be recognized in law just as they

> are

> > surely morally self-evident. Professor Baer has the scientific

> knowledge

> > concerning how to determine what is effective with [this child]

and

> what

> > has or will cause him harm and produce failure. He should be

> regarded as

> > a professional asset of the highest quality to [this child's]

> > educational team.

> >

> > Most of what I know about applied behavior analysis has a Don

Baer

> > flavor to it. My love of the field and the sense that it is a

> powerful

> > tool for doing good for so many different kinds of people and for

> > solving so many different kinds of problems has a Don Baer smile

> behind

> > it. Todd Risley and Montrose Wolf were co-authors with Baer of the

> paper

> > that first defined the field of 'applied behavior analysis.' We

all

> will

> > miss his wisdom, humor, and intellectual leadership, but we will

> not be

> > able to think about applied behavior analysis without thinking of

>

> > M. Baer with gratitude.

> >

> >

> >

> > A. Mulick, Ph.D.

> > Professor, Pediatrics & Psychology

> > The Ohio State University

> > Columbus Children's Hospital

> > 700 Children's Drive. CHPB-4

> > Columbus, OH 43205-2696

> > [No institutional endorsement of message content implied]

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

I think this is where many people are confused. Some thinks mercury causes autism but mercury poisoning signs match the signs of autism. Gee, maybe that is why there is such an increase in children who show signs of autism? I remember one doctor saying, if it walks like a duck, squawks like a duck and looks like a duck, it is a duck. If mercury is causing autistic-like symptoms in children maybe the government ought to not suggest that our kids have so many vaccines pumped into their bodies at once. Oh, maybe they just ate too much tuna! The government does caution us about eating too much tuna though, doesn't it.

Betty

----- Original Message -----

From: Lake260@...

In a message dated 12/18/2003 9:35:54 AM Eastern Standard Time, wmks1983@... writes:

Let me end this by saying that I don't think mercury "causes" autism, but it sure as heck causes significant harm and lasting complications in people with autism.

I don't think mercury causes autism, but I believe many cases of autism are actually mercury poisoning. IF you look at the symptoms of mercury poisoning vs signs of autism, they match just about one for one.

[Guest guest]

THANK YOU, PENNY! There is no one who cares to research and learn about what causes autism than the parent or grandparent of a child with autism. What gripes me is that even the doctors and nurses who thought these vaccines were safe did not know any better.

I am going back off line for awhile. Our family has too much on their minds and so do I with the death of my sil to care about spending so much time deleting so many posts that are not changing any minds about the importance of mercury in causing problems with our neurologically damaged children.

Gees, all this started over the flu mist vaccine? Well, as I said. We all are going to keep our opinions and for my family no one will have the flu mist vaccine IF I CAN HELP IT.

BETTY ANN-61 yo, probably undx'd bipolargrandma and guardian to

ANDREW - 12 yo-- Bipolar/ADHD, HomeschooledEVAN - 9 yo-- nonverbal autismDAVID 7 yo Bipolar/ADHD

and mother to ANDREA -32 yo, their mom -Bipolar/ADHD

wife to BOB - 72 yo, a very tired grandpa

----- Original Message -----

From: Penny

Wow - I'm not usually one to feed this kind of thing, but you do think a lot of yourself, don't you? Did I ask you to research this subject for me? No, I certainly did not. Are you saying that the "professionals" can't trust the state of mind of parents to make informed decisions? That's not what I said at all. It was more like "taking advantage of the situation" and KNOWING once parents researched this they in NO way would want their BABIES immunized for something that they have little or no chance of gettting.

I'd refer you to the following: "When your doctor is wrong: Hepatitis B and Autism" by Judy Converse, MPH, RD, but you'd probably just tear that apart as well.

Again, I ask you, are you the parent of an Autistic child?

The "professionals" gave my child an unnecessary vaccine. Period. They didn't WANT to give me a chance to reject it.

Penny - who doesn't have a Ph. D., but CERTAINLY knows more about Autism than most people... Ph. D.'s included.

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 12/19/2003 11:20:46 AM Eastern Standard Time, LornaBerry@... writes:

And to the Doctor, stop with the flu mist already, this group is a sounding board for children with autism, who need behavior help. Got any ideas on that Sir ?

Just to let you know, he unsubscribed from the group today

[Guest guest]

When is the funeral, Betty? Will any of the boys be going? Does Evan understand about death? I don't know if Karac does or not; he does say that his dog died, but I don't know if he really understands what he is saying.

For the time being, Karac seems to be doing well on the Geodon and the Straterra. Are the boys still doing well on the Abilify? He still gaining weight, however; he is up to 115. Oh, well, he is at least happy. Blessings, Pat K

[Guest guest]

Good he was getting on my last nerve ! and had nothing to offer.

CB's Granny

[Guest guest]

Perhaps this is in bad taste but !

I felt like he was totally stomping on the beliefs, griefs and hopes of parents with children with autism.

Betty

----- Original Message -----

From: Lake260@...

In a message dated 12/19/2003 11:20:46 AM Eastern Standard Time, LornaBerry@... writes:

And to the Doctor, stop with the flu mist already, this group is a sounding board for children with autism, who need behavior help. Got any ideas on that Sir ?

Just to let you know, he unsubscribed from the group today

[Guest guest]

I don't think it's in bad taste at all.

good riddance, I say.

Penny

-----Original Message-----From: Betty [mailto:banthony@...]Sent: Friday, December 19, 2003 2:22 PMautism Subject: Re: Flu Mist Vaccine campaign

Perhaps this is in bad taste but !

I felt like he was totally stomping on the beliefs, griefs and hopes of parents with children with autism.

Betty

----- Original Message -----

From: Lake260@...

In a message dated 12/19/2003 11:20:46 AM Eastern Standard Time, LornaBerry@... writes:

And to the Doctor, stop with the flu mist already, this group is a sounding board for children with autism, who need behavior help. Got any ideas on that Sir ?

Just to let you know, he unsubscribed from the group today

[Guest guest]

I don't think it's in bad taste at all.

good riddance, I say.

Penny

-----Original Message-----From: Betty [mailto:banthony@...]Sent: Friday, December 19, 2003 2:22 PMautism Subject: Re: Flu Mist Vaccine campaign

Perhaps this is in bad taste but !

I felt like he was totally stomping on the beliefs, griefs and hopes of parents with children with autism.

Betty

----- Original Message -----

From: Lake260@...

In a message dated 12/19/2003 11:20:46 AM Eastern Standard Time, LornaBerry@... writes:

And to the Doctor, stop with the flu mist already, this group is a sounding board for children with autism, who need behavior help. Got any ideas on that Sir ?

Just to let you know, he unsubscribed from the group today

[Guest guest]

Ok ladies and gentlemen, I like to keep my conversations on the up-

and-up, so lets move along with the issues at hand. This is supposed

to be a time of peace for all religions, so lets keep that in mind.

> Perhaps this is in bad taste but !

> I felt like he was totally stomping on the beliefs, griefs and

hopes of parents with children with autism.

> Betty

> ----- Original Message -----

> From: Lake260@a...

>

>

>

> In a message dated 12/19/2003 11:20:46 AM Eastern Standard Time,

LornaBerry@a... writes:

> And to the Doctor, stop with the flu mist already, this group

is a sounding board for children with autism, who need behavior help.

Got any ideas on that Sir ?

> Just to let you know, he unsubscribed from the group today

[Guest guest]

Ok ladies and gentlemen, I like to keep my conversations on the up-

and-up, so lets move along with the issues at hand. This is supposed

to be a time of peace for all religions, so lets keep that in mind.

> Perhaps this is in bad taste but !

> I felt like he was totally stomping on the beliefs, griefs and

hopes of parents with children with autism.

> Betty

> ----- Original Message -----

> From: Lake260@a...

>

>

>

> In a message dated 12/19/2003 11:20:46 AM Eastern Standard Time,

LornaBerry@a... writes:

> And to the Doctor, stop with the flu mist already, this group

is a sounding board for children with autism, who need behavior help.

Got any ideas on that Sir ?

> Just to let you know, he unsubscribed from the group today

[Guest guest]

Here's a Group:

abmd/

> http://www.autism-biomed.com/ does not exist. I am interested in

joining

> the list Dr. Mulick recommends is there some way to find out

subscription

> information?

>

>

[Guest guest]

At 11:03 AM 12/22/2003, you wrote:

>Here's a Group:

>abmd/

Thanks.

Marty Landman

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