Guest guest Posted January 14, 2004 Report Share Posted January 14, 2004 Kim, If you haven't already checked out Margaret Ayers' work with comatose clients, it's worth taking a look. Here's a brief article that may be of interest (since she does pretty much the same thing with everyone): http://www.neuropathways.com/publications/l2-coma.html Head injuries generally result in several potential issues: Areas of very high Delta relative to surrounding and homologous areas; these relate to white-matter damage, a shearing of the connections, which leaves neurons as little islands of activation with no inputs or outputs. The Delta is projected from the brainstem when nothing else is happening. Areas of very low amplitudes overall relative to surrounding and homologous areas; these relate to gray-matter damage, literally a killing of the neurons, so there are many fewer producing the electrical pulses we read as EEG. Certainly what you describe is an extremely slow EEG, but the lack of spike activity, even with stimulation, is a positive sign. The idea of working on the frontal lobes may be worthwhile, but I'm afraid it may be a bit like trying to adjust the guidance system in a plane with no wings. Margaret works with the sensory-motor cortex and the temporal lobes and tries to reduce slowing there. That may be a very good place to start. Pete > > From: " Starrett " <kstarrett@...> > Date: 2004/01/12 Mon PM 08:58:06 EST > < > > CC: <kstarrett@...> > Subject: low brain activity > > Hello Folks, > > I have some information to share with you all, and would like your personal > opinion on this matter. > > I've been working with a young gentleman at the age of 18 that I > > would probably consider semi coma- Last year in December he > > had a four wheeler accident in which he was thrown 65 feet and landed on his > head, so we now have him at our Rehab Center doing Tactile and Patterning. > There has been some change since he has started. The interpretation that > this boy had last year states-7HZ occipital rhythm on the right mixed with > some 5-6 Hz activity. There were no occipital dominant rhythm on the left. > There is 4-6 Hz activity in the anterior regions with some low voltage fast > activity. The back ground activity is relatively depressed over the left > hemispheric derivations. Periods of drowsiness as well as stage II sleep > were recorded. While there was some slightly peaked slow wave transients in > the temporal region on the right there were no well-defined sharp waves or > spikes. The sleep spindles were relatively depressed on the left. Photic > stimulation did not elicit abnormal waveforms. I have talk to the mother > about Hyperbaric in which she seems very interested in and may try it for a > month, But my question to all of you would be- What do you think about > trying neurofeedback on this youngster.? I spoke with some folks in > Michigan at the institute for neurobiofeedback that specializes in brain > injury (coma) and they said to try to stimulate the frontal and Pre frontal > lobe @ 13-20 Hz. This mother is desperate to find help for her son which is > understandable! What do you guys think? > > > > Kim > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 16, 2004 Report Share Posted January 16, 2004 , Your assessment of this young man being so complete, you might be surprised to read the group of case studies which Dr. von Hilsheimer has published (some on his site: www.drbiofeedback.com) using a most unsurprising montage and protocol: C3/C4 bipolar placement. SMR 13-15Hz UP e Theta 3-7Hz DOWN. (he uses this montage/protocol for everything!) The other element for his successful training of some severe cases is INTENSITY. He sells them a EEG unit, provides a supervisionary session every 2 weeks or month and requires that the family train the person 1 to 2 times. . . A DAY! I think, judging from the price of a solid EEG unit and Software suite these days, the viability of such a training model is GREAT. And, though we do enjoy a great amount of information and selectability regarding protocols and brain physiology, it is worth remembering what Val Brown continuously states: "It's much simpler than you think." Empower, Employ, Enjoy! Van Deusen > From: " Starrett" <kstarrett@...>> Date: 2004/01/12 Mon PM 08:58:06 EST> < >> CC: <kstarrett@...>> Subject: low brain activity> > Hello Folks,> > I have some information to share with you all, and would like your personal> opinion on this matter.> > I've been working with a young gentleman at the age of 18 that I > > would probably consider semi coma- Last year in December he> > had a four wheeler accident in which he was thrown 65 feet and landed on his> head, so we now have him at our Rehab Center doing Tactile and Patterning.> There has been some change since he has started. The interpretation that> this boy had last year states-7HZ occipital rhythm on the right mixed with> some 5-6 Hz activity. There were no occipital dominant rhythm on the left.> There is 4-6 Hz activity in the anterior regions with some low voltage fast> activity. The back ground activity is relatively depressed over the left> hemispheric derivations. Periods of drowsiness as well as stage II sleep> were recorded. While there was some slightly peaked slow wave transients in> the temporal region on the right there were no well-defined sharp waves or> spikes. The sleep spindles were relatively depressed on the left. Photic> stimulation did not elicit abnormal waveforms. I have talk to the mother> about Hyperbaric in which she seems very interested in and may try it for a> month, But my question to all of you would be- What do you think about> trying neurofeedback on this youngster.? I spoke with some folks in> Michigan at the institute for neurobiofeedback that specializes in brain> injury (coma) and they said to try to stimulate the frontal and Pre frontal> lobe @ 13-20 Hz. This mother is desperate to find help for her son which is> understandable! What do you guys think? > > > > Kim> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 17, 2004 Report Share Posted January 17, 2004 , I wasn't aware had ever published any of his oft-repeated experience anywhere (except perhaps on his own website or e-mails to various lists). He certainly does claim--as does Val--that his approach works for everyone, though I think there are folks on this list besides me who have tried it and not gotten the same results he claims (same for Val) to get. Up to the last time I spoke with , I wasn't aware he was doing home-based training. That's good. About a year ago, when I visited him, he was still seeing people in his office for up to several hundred sessions. I definitely agree that home training is an economical approach in cases where there is a good reason to believe that hundreds of sessions will be beneficial. I had the impression from Kim's e-mail, though, that this client was nearly comatose and might not be at home. The option of getting a good hardware and software setup that can be used to do either very simple or very sophisticated training at home for less than $1,400 is definitely one that makes a lot of sense. Pete > > From: " Machado- Van Deusen " <adriancmvd@...> > Date: 2004/01/16 Fri PM 11:11:02 EST > < > > Subject: Re: low brain activity > > , > > Your assessment of this young man being so complete, you might be surprised to read the group of case studies which Dr. von Hilsheimer has published (some on his site: www.drbiofeedback.com) using a most unsurprising > montage and protocol: > C3/C4 bipolar placement. SMR 13-15Hz UP e Theta 3-7Hz DOWN. (he uses this montage/protocol for everything!) > > The other element for his successful training of some severe cases is INTENSITY. He sells them a EEG unit, provides a supervisionary session every 2 weeks or month and requires that the family train the person 1 to 2 times. . . A DAY! > > I think, judging from the price of a solid EEG unit and Software suite these days, the viability of such a training model is GREAT. > And, though we do enjoy a great amount of information and selectability regarding protocols and brain physiology, it is worth remembering what Val Brown continuously states: > " It's much simpler than you think. " > > Empower, Employ, Enjoy! > Van Deusen > > From: " Starrett " <kstarrett@...> > > Date: 2004/01/12 Mon PM 08:58:06 EST > > < > > > CC: <kstarrett@...> > > Subject: low brain activity > > > > Hello Folks, > > > > I have some information to share with you all, and would like your personal > > opinion on this matter. > > > > I've been working with a young gentleman at the age of 18 that I > > > > would probably consider semi coma- Last year in December he > > > > had a four wheeler accident in which he was thrown 65 feet and landed on his > > head, so we now have him at our Rehab Center doing Tactile and Patterning. > > There has been some change since he has started. The interpretation that > > this boy had last year states-7HZ occipital rhythm on the right mixed with > > some 5-6 Hz activity. There were no occipital dominant rhythm on the left. > > There is 4-6 Hz activity in the anterior regions with some low voltage fast > > activity. The back ground activity is relatively depressed over the left > > hemispheric derivations. Periods of drowsiness as well as stage II sleep > > were recorded. While there was some slightly peaked slow wave transients in > > the temporal region on the right there were no well-defined sharp waves or > > spikes. The sleep spindles were relatively depressed on the left. Photic > > stimulation did not elicit abnormal waveforms. I have talk to the mother > > about Hyperbaric in which she seems very interested in and may try it for a > > month, But my question to all of you would be- What do you think about > > trying neurofeedback on this youngster.? I spoke with some folks in > > Michigan at the institute for neurobiofeedback that specializes in brain > > injury (coma) and they said to try to stimulate the frontal and Pre frontal > > lobe @ 13-20 Hz. This mother is desperate to find help for her son which is > > understandable! What do you guys think? > > > > > > > > Kim > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 18, 2004 Report Share Posted January 18, 2004 Pete, I wasn't specific about the word "published". Not referring to the Peer Reviewed Journal kind of publishing. What I know about are on his site, on other sites and via presentations he has made at conferences. And, of course, his own word of mouth. I'd like to return to the baseline messages that I Kind Of conveyed in my response to Kim: 1- INTENSITY of training is one of the most important elements to effective imprinting on a traumatized brain. The time of internment in a hospital or the home environment both are well adaptable to intensive EEG training. Clinical visits are not. 2- Many times, the protocol decisions truly can be MUCH SIMPLER than we think. Empower, Employ, Enjoy! low brain activity> > > > Hello Folks,> > > > I have some information to share with you all, and would like your personal> > opinion on this matter.> > > > I've been working with a young gentleman at the age of 18 that I > > > > would probably consider semi coma- Last year in December he> > > > had a four wheeler accident in which he was thrown 65 feet and landed on his> > head, so we now have him at our Rehab Center doing Tactile and Patterning.> > There has been some change since he has started. The interpretation that> > this boy had last year states-7HZ occipital rhythm on the right mixed with> > some 5-6 Hz activity. There were no occipital dominant rhythm on the left.> > There is 4-6 Hz activity in the anterior regions with some low voltage fast> > activity. The back ground activity is relatively depressed over the left> > hemispheric derivations. Periods of drowsiness as well as stage II sleep> > were recorded. While there was some slightly peaked slow wave transients in> > the temporal region on the right there were no well-defined sharp waves or> > spikes. The sleep spindles were relatively depressed on the left. Photic> > stimulation did not elicit abnormal waveforms. I have talk to the mother> > about Hyperbaric in which she seems very interested in and may try it for a> > month, But my question to all of you would be- What do you think about> > trying neurofeedback on this youngster.? I spoke with some folks in> > Michigan at the institute for neurobiofeedback that specializes in brain> > injury (coma) and they said to try to stimulate the frontal and Pre frontal> > lobe @ 13-20 Hz. This mother is desperate to find help for her son which is> > understandable! What do you guys think? > > > > > > > > Kim> > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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