Re: sale of ozone machines

March 19, 2000

Saul might correct me, since he is the final word on everything

ozone around here, but my understanding is that for insufflation,

cupping, or any similar bodily use a medical grade ozone

generator MUST be used. There is a small machine of, I believe,

Beck's design, which can be used with a nebulizer, but it doesn't

have the output necessary for insufflations or cupping. I also

believe it uses air as a source, but I could be wrong about that.

For the purposes you mention, you MUST use oxygen as a source

gas, not air, and none of the inexpensive bulb type generators

that would allow this have enough output. Yes, ozone can do what

you want to do, but the machine will cost over two thousand

dollars, unless a new machine has hit the market & I haven't

heard. And, you would, IMO, be crazy to build a machine like the

one described in the last month or so, using parts from a high

intensity bulb, for insufflation.

I have a small size medical generator which sold for about $2300,

and I can use it for cupping or insufflation, but it doesn't have

enough output for a steam sauna. Like it or not, the device has

to be suited for the purpose to which it is applied. And, cheap

generators aren't suited to insufflation, cupping or saunas.

Another possibility for your friend is to find a practitioner in

her area who uses ozone. Saul has a list of practitioners, and

some are also listed at http://www.oxytherapy.com

jim

FAMANSON@... wrote:

>

> From: FAMANSON@...

>

> Our CNA has just been cured of breast cancer, but had a enlargement reappear

> about 3 months after she was found to have no cancer. One of her doctors

> said she needed to used some ozone rectally, that his symptom had happened

> with another patient and the ozone normalized her condition. Could she find

> an inexpensive ozone machine which would generate the type needed for her

> therapy and where could she make such a purchase? Can one use the water

> purifier type machine with another type connection?

--

jim@... ICQ:16531148

http://www.doorway.to/madscience http://www.doorway.to/poetry

Fear is the opposite of love. -- anony

March 20, 2000

Jim Lambert wrote:

> From: Jim Lambert <jlambert@...>

> Saul might correct me, since he is the final word on everything

> ozone around here,

Please, why is Saul the " final word " ?

> For the purposes you mention, you MUST use oxygen as a source

> gas, not air, and none of the inexpensive bulb type generators

> that would allow this have enough output. Yes, ozone can do what

> you want to do, but the machine will cost over two thousand

> dollars, unless a new machine has hit the market & I haven't

> heard.

I purchased a GE60 ozone generator, various glass and tubing accessories, two

widely publicized ozone therapy books, AND an ozone Steam Sauna Tent for LESS

THAN $2000., retail. I think it unlikely that you haven't heard about the

equipment from Ozone Services. And this is definitely NOT something new on the

market.

> I have a small size medical generator which sold for about $2300,

> and I can use it for cupping or insufflation, but it doesn't have

> enough output for a steam sauna.

Just the GE60 generator itself, which is the Larger choice of medical grade

generator's, sells for under $1500.

> Like it or not, the device has

> to be suited for the purpose to which it is applied. And, cheap

> generators aren't suited to insufflation, cupping or saunas.

Yes, the device HAS to be suited to the proper purpose. And " cheap " is a

relative term. Compared to the price you paid for your generator, Jim, I know

my generator was definitely LESS EXPENSIVE.

>

> Another possibility for your friend is to find a practitioner in

> her area who uses ozone. Saul has a list of practitioners, and

> some are also listed at http://www.oxytherapy.com

Also on oxytherapy.com you will find www.ozoneservices.com , the manufacturer I

purchased my generator from, after much research which included talking to the

various designers.

>

> jim

>

> FAMANSON@... wrote:

>

> > Our CNA has just been cured of breast cancer, but had a enlargement reappear

> > about 3 months after she was found to have no cancer. One of her doctors

> > said she needed to used some ozone rectally, that his symptom had happened

> > with another patient and the ozone normalized her condition. Could she find

> > an inexpensive ozone machine which would generate the type needed for her

> > therapy and where could she make such a purchase? Can one use the water

> > purifier type machine with another type connection?

> --

> jim@... ICQ:16531148

> http://www.doorway.to/madscience http://www.doorway.to/poetry

>

> Fear is the opposite of love. -- anony

To Jim:

Why is it that you advertise Saul to such an extent when there is a much broader

market available to folks? Many people in need of the benefits of ozone therapy

also have limited funds. I my self could not afford the $3000 to $4000 price

tag on the generators available locally. So, 4 years later, and much more

educated on this subject, I am into the equipment at less than half of the

" going rate " . Fortunately I have not been in a life and death medical state

where I had to pay the inflated price for the equipment to save my life. I know

personally, people who were in a cancer situation, and had to pay the price,

even though they were put into severe financial trouble for it. I also know

personally, people who Never could get the money together for Saul's equipment

and succumbed to loosing their battle of health.

I am developing my oxygen therapy business to put the equipment into the hands

of the public without excluding many because of inflated prices. I am proud to

distribute for a company with ethics and morals.

Again Jim, why is Saul the " final word " ?

Diane Tweden

March 20, 2000

I got my ozone machine from Ozone Services also, and have been very happy.

March 20, 2000

Dear Diane,

Normally I wouldn't respond, but since you asked Jim, I will take the

liberty of defending myself :

1) I provide the best warranty in the business. The ozone generators I make

are guaranteed to make ozone for as long as you own them. And if you resell

them, they are still under warranty. If you do decide to sell the unit, I

will test it and make sure all accessories are provided to the new owner,

without charge. No one else will do this.

2) The reason I can offer this warranty is that my generators are inherently

impervious to burnout, based as they are on Tesla's electrostatic cold

plasma principle. I have seen many of our generators operate for months, or

even years, after people have inadvertently allowed water or olive oil to

enter the unit. No one else's machines can do this. I do not apologize for

having the highest prices, because I have the best generators.

3) When pricing generators, make sure that you get the FINAL price --

including tank, regulator, all accessories, complete instructions on how to

use it, and shipping. This is what my price includes. Note also that my

Model 60 puts out 50% more ozone at 1/2 liter/minute, which is the flow rate

for the ozone sauna cabinet, than Den's GE-60. So it is actually cheaper,

for what you get.

4) I offer interest free financing on my generators to people who ask.

Sometimes I get burned, but not often enough to quit doing it.

5) I teach an accredited Ozone Hyperthermic Technician course, now available

on video tape. No other manufacturer has the knowledge to do this.

6) I have written two books on ozone and ozone therapy, which are available

free of charge to anyone for the asking. No one else does this.

7) I was the one who developed the ozone generator market in Canada with the

Vancouver Ozone Conference in June 1994, and the Toronto Ozone Conference in

September, bringing in the top doctors in ozone therapy from around the

world as presenters, in order to convince Canada's naturopaths to adopt

ozone therapy. I charged only $25 a head, and paid the rest myself. This

cost me over $25,000 out of my own pocket. No one else would do this.

8) This last fall, I staged three Ozone Hyperthermic Technician courses :

London, England; Dallas, Texas; and Vancouver, BC. With all the costs, I had

to kick in $5000 out of my own pocket to meet expenses. I did it gladly, in

order to have people properly trained and to counteract the incorrect

information that has been promulgated about ozone hyperthermia by my

competitors. (Such as : the red rash means that you have had too much ozone,

when it is simply the healing crisis writ large).

9) I revived and popularized ozone hyperthermia after it had laid fallow for

over 100 years, after being invented by Dr. Kellogg of Battle Creek,

Michigan in 1881. Others have once again followed on my coat tails, even

buying saunas from my supplier (who I had spent $50,000 setting up in 1995)

out the back door, and then buying my new moulds from this same unscrupulous

supplier. The law suit continues ....

10) I have spent thousands of hours of my time, at all hours, without

charge, trying to help people with their various health problems, a great

many of them terminal. When people phone me, they are getting my home phone.

Since I got married in 1997, I let the machine catch the messages in the

afternoon while I run around and do banking and mailing, but I always try to

get back to the caller three times before giving up. Other manufacturers are

just that -- with no useful medical knowledge to offer their customers.

11) I have given away 57 ozone generators since I started in this business

in 1993, to people who could not afford them. I will put my record up

against any one else's.

12) When a person phones me up and says they have terminal cancer, i first

try and determine whether they can travel to one of the 112 clinics that I

have supplied equipment and training to. If they are unable to travel, or if

it is just too far, then and only then do I start talking about the purchase

of equipment. And in many cases, I end up renting the people saunas and

generators, which obviously provide far less remuneration. These are rent to

own plans, where 100% of the amount paid is applied to future purchase,

should they so wish, without interest charged. (I do not believe in usury).

No one else will do this.

13) My first job after I got graduated from college (electronics) was

repairing amplifiers at a music store in Winnipeg. I have always remembered

the motto the owner had on his wall : " The bitterness of poor quality

remains long after the sweetness of cheap price has faded. " When people tell

me that they are buying a corona discharge generator, I tell them to put my

phone number in a safe place, and when that one burns out, they can call me

up and buy one with the only Lifetime Warranty in the world.

Best of Health!

Saul Pressman

URL: http://www.plasmafire.com

email: saul@...

Re: sale of ozone machines

> From: Kenzie <KENZIE@...>

> Please, why is Saul the " final word " ?

> I purchased a GE60 ozone generator, various glass and tubing accessories,

two widely publicized ozone therapy books, AND an ozone Steam Sauna Tent for

LESS THAN $2000., retail. I think it unlikely that you haven't heard about

the equipment from Ozone Services. And this is definitely NOT something new

on the market.

> Just the GE60 generator itself, which is the Larger choice of medical

grade generator's, sells for under $1500.

> Yes, the device HAS to be suited to the proper purpose. And " cheap " is a

relative term. Compared to the price you paid for your generator, Jim, I

know my generator was definitely LESS EXPENSIVE.

> Also on oxytherapy.com you will find www.ozoneservices.com , the

manufacturer I purchased my generator from, after much research which

included talking to the various designers.

> To Jim:

> Why is it that you advertise Saul to such an extent when there is a much

broader market available to folks? Many people in need of the benefits of

ozone therapy also have limited funds. I my self could not afford the $3000

to $4000 price tag on the generators available locally. So, 4 years later,

and much more educated on this subject, I am into the equipment at less than

half of the " going rate " . Fortunately I have not been in a life and death

medical state where I had to pay the inflated price for the equipment to

save my life. I know

personally, people who were in a cancer situation, and had to pay the price,

even though they were put into severe financial trouble for it. I also know

personally, people who Never could get the money together for Saul's

equipment and succumbed to loosing their battle of health.

> I am developing my oxygen therapy business to put the equipment into the

hands of the public without excluding many because of inflated prices. I am

proud to distribute for a company with ethics and morals.

> Again Jim, why is Saul the " final word " ?

> Diane Tweden

March 20, 2000

> From: Kenzie <KENZIE@...>

>

> > From: Jim Lambert <jlambert@...>

>

> > Saul might correct me, since he is the final word on everything

> > ozone around here,

>

> Please, why is Saul the " final word " ?

Kenzie,

That is my opinion as a listmember. (not as moderator) As far as

I am aware, Saul is the only professional in that field on this

list. So obviously, my familiarity with him is greater because

he joined this list when we splintered off from the oxylist in

'98, and

has contributed to it heavily ever since. If another professional

in the field wants to speak up, I'll be happy to include him or

her in my opinions.

> I purchased a GE60 ozone generator, various glass and tubing accessories, two

widely publicized ozone therapy books, AND an ozone Steam Sauna Tent for LESS

THAN $2000., retail.

I'm delighted to hear it! Unfortunately, it still isn't in the

inexpensive category, IMO.

>I think it unlikely that you haven't heard about the equipment from Ozone

Services. And this is definitely NOT something new on the market.

What are you implying? I'm not fond of innuendo. You may think it

as unlikely as you wish, but although I read Den's posts on the

oxylist for a year I haven't been to his website in probably two

years, or more, and I don't remember very much detail that far

back when I was just surfing. Just a few things that were

important to me.

I don't like your ambiguity. Exactly what point

are you trying to make? Why not just come out and say whatever

you've got stuck in your craw.

> > Like it or not, the device has

> > to be suited for the purpose to which it is applied. And, cheap

> > generators aren't suited to insufflation, cupping or saunas.

>

> Yes, the device HAS to be suited to the proper purpose. And " cheap " is a

relative term. Compared to the price you paid for your generator, Jim, I know

my generator was definitely LESS EXPENSIVE.

If it rings your chimes to have spent less than I did, be my

guest. But I got a good deal on the last unit of a model

closeout, so I didn't pay retail.

And, I'm rusty as hell about the differences of corona discharge

ozonators vs. cold

plasma units, but I remember when I listened to all of the

discussions on the oxylist I decided I preferred the cold plasma

design.

I think the ozone services products units are corona

discharge. There is something in the design difference that makes

the cold plasma design more durable I believe. It has a lifetime

warranty. I don't think the corona discharge types can offer

that.

> Also on oxytherapy.com you will find www.ozoneservices.com , the manufacturer

I purchased my generator from, after much research which included talking to the

various designers.

My preference is for cold plasma. I hope Saul writes & explains

it again.

jim

--

jim@... ICQ:16531148

http://www.doorway.to/madscience http://www.doorway.to/poetry

Fear is the opposite of love. -- anony

March 20, 2000

Wow, Saul, you're an inspiration.

I've been here about a year now and have read many of your posts. I know

that

if I was in trouble with my health you'd be one the first I'd asked for

advise....

and not just because you are loaded with knowledge, but because your

heart is in the right place.

Suzanne

> From: " Saul Pressman " <saul@...>

>

> Dear Diane,

>

> Normally I wouldn't respond, but since you asked Jim, I will take the

> liberty of defending myself :

>

> 1) I provide the best warranty in the business. The ozone generators I

make

> are guaranteed to make ozone for as long as you own them. And if you

resell

> them, they are still under warranty. If you do decide to sell the unit, I

> will test it and make sure all accessories are provided to the new owner,

> without charge. No one else will do this.

>

> 2) The reason I can offer this warranty is that my generators are

inherently

> impervious to burnout, based as they are on Tesla's electrostatic cold

> plasma principle. I have seen many of our generators operate for months,

or

> even years, after people have inadvertently allowed water or olive oil to

> enter the unit. No one else's machines can do this. I do not apologize for

> having the highest prices, because I have the best generators.

>

> 3) When pricing generators, make sure that you get the FINAL price --

> including tank, regulator, all accessories, complete instructions on how

to

> use it, and shipping. This is what my price includes. Note also that my

> Model 60 puts out 50% more ozone at 1/2 liter/minute, which is the flow

rate

> for the ozone sauna cabinet, than Den's GE-60. So it is actually cheaper,

> for what you get.

>

> 4) I offer interest free financing on my generators to people who ask.

> Sometimes I get burned, but not often enough to quit doing it.

>

> 5) I teach an accredited Ozone Hyperthermic Technician course, now

available

> on video tape. No other manufacturer has the knowledge to do this.

>

> 6) I have written two books on ozone and ozone therapy, which are

available

> free of charge to anyone for the asking. No one else does this.

>

> 7) I was the one who developed the ozone generator market in Canada with

the

> Vancouver Ozone Conference in June 1994, and the Toronto Ozone Conference

in

> September, bringing in the top doctors in ozone therapy from around the

> world as presenters, in order to convince Canada's naturopaths to adopt

> ozone therapy. I charged only $25 a head, and paid the rest myself. This

> cost me over $25,000 out of my own pocket. No one else would do this.

>

> 8) This last fall, I staged three Ozone Hyperthermic Technician courses :

> London, England; Dallas, Texas; and Vancouver, BC. With all the costs, I

had

> to kick in $5000 out of my own pocket to meet expenses. I did it gladly,

in

> order to have people properly trained and to counteract the incorrect

> information that has been promulgated about ozone hyperthermia by my

> competitors. (Such as : the red rash means that you have had too much

ozone,

> when it is simply the healing crisis writ large).

>

> 9) I revived and popularized ozone hyperthermia after it had laid fallow

for

> over 100 years, after being invented by Dr. Kellogg of Battle Creek,

> Michigan in 1881. Others have once again followed on my coat tails, even

> buying saunas from my supplier (who I had spent $50,000 setting up in

1995)

> out the back door, and then buying my new moulds from this same

unscrupulous

> supplier. The law suit continues ....

>

> 10) I have spent thousands of hours of my time, at all hours, without

> charge, trying to help people with their various health problems, a great

> many of them terminal. When people phone me, they are getting my home

phone.

> Since I got married in 1997, I let the machine catch the messages in the

> afternoon while I run around and do banking and mailing, but I always try

to

> get back to the caller three times before giving up. Other manufacturers

are

> just that -- with no useful medical knowledge to offer their customers.

>

> 11) I have given away 57 ozone generators since I started in this business

> in 1993, to people who could not afford them. I will put my record up

> against any one else's.

>

> 12) When a person phones me up and says they have terminal cancer, i first

> try and determine whether they can travel to one of the 112 clinics that I

> have supplied equipment and training to. If they are unable to travel, or

if

> it is just too far, then and only then do I start talking about the

purchase

> of equipment. And in many cases, I end up renting the people saunas and

> generators, which obviously provide far less remuneration. These are rent

to

> own plans, where 100% of the amount paid is applied to future purchase,

> should they so wish, without interest charged. (I do not believe in

usury).

> No one else will do this.

>

> 13) My first job after I got graduated from college (electronics) was

> repairing amplifiers at a music store in Winnipeg. I have always

remembered

> the motto the owner had on his wall : " The bitterness of poor quality

> remains long after the sweetness of cheap price has faded. " When people

tell

> me that they are buying a corona discharge generator, I tell them to put

my

> phone number in a safe place, and when that one burns out, they can call

me

> up and buy one with the only Lifetime Warranty in the world.

>

> Best of Health!

> Saul Pressman

>

> URL: http://www.plasmafire.com

> email: saul@...

>

> Re: sale of ozone machines

>

> > From: Kenzie <KENZIE@...>

>

> > Please, why is Saul the " final word " ?

>

> > I purchased a GE60 ozone generator, various glass and tubing

accessories,

> two widely publicized ozone therapy books, AND an ozone Steam Sauna Tent

for

> LESS THAN $2000., retail. I think it unlikely that you haven't heard

about

> the equipment from Ozone Services. And this is definitely NOT something

new

> on the market.

>

> > Just the GE60 generator itself, which is the Larger choice of medical

> grade generator's, sells for under $1500.

>

> > Yes, the device HAS to be suited to the proper purpose. And " cheap " is

a

> relative term. Compared to the price you paid for your generator, Jim, I

> know my generator was definitely LESS EXPENSIVE.

>

> > Also on oxytherapy.com you will find www.ozoneservices.com , the

> manufacturer I purchased my generator from, after much research which

> included talking to the various designers.

>

> > To Jim:

>

> > Why is it that you advertise Saul to such an extent when there is a much

> broader market available to folks? Many people in need of the benefits of

> ozone therapy also have limited funds. I my self could not afford the

$3000

> to $4000 price tag on the generators available locally. So, 4 years

later,

> and much more educated on this subject, I am into the equipment at less

than

> half of the " going rate " . Fortunately I have not been in a life and death

> medical state where I had to pay the inflated price for the equipment to

> save my life. I know

> personally, people who were in a cancer situation, and had to pay the

price,

> even though they were put into severe financial trouble for it. I also

know

> personally, people who Never could get the money together for Saul's

> equipment and succumbed to loosing their battle of health.

>

> > I am developing my oxygen therapy business to put the equipment into the

> hands of the public without excluding many because of inflated prices. I

am

> proud to distribute for a company with ethics and morals.

>

> > Again Jim, why is Saul the " final word " ?

>

> > Diane Tweden

>

> ------------------------------------------------------------------------

> GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds! Get rates

> as low as 0.0% Intro APR and no hidden fees.

> Apply NOW!

> 1/975/3/_/507288/_/953610634/

> ------------------------------------------------------------------------

>

> OxyPLUS is an unmoderated e-ring dealing with oxidative therapies, and

other alternative self- help subjects.

>

> THERE IS NO MEDICAL ADVICE HERE!

>

> This list is the 1st Amendment in action. The things you will find here

are for information and research purposes only. We are people sharing

information we believe in. If you act on ideas found here, you do so at your

own risk. Self-help requires intelligence, common sense, and the ability to

take responsibility for your own actions. By joining the list you agree to

hold yourself FULLY responsible FOR yourself. Do not use any ideas found

here without consulting a medical professional, unless you are a researcher

or health care provider.

>

> You can unsubscribe via e-mail by sending A NEW e-mail to the following

address - NOT TO THE OXYPLUS LIST! -

> DO NOT PUT THIS IN THE SUBJECT LINE or BODY of the message! :

>

> oxyplus-unsubscribeonelist

>

> oxyplus-normalonelist - switch your subscription to normal mode.

>

March 20, 2000

Kenzie:

If you haven't used Saul's equipment you don't have anything you can say

about it. We don't need any of this stupid bickering over who has the

best deal, what we need is information about how we can overcome the

problems we are all having with health. Please talk about what you know

works in saving lives as there are people listening to you right now

that need good help in finding out about what works. Plasmafire

Generators work well and it sounds like Ozone Services equipment does

too. How do you use it and what results are you seeing in your self ?

Anything else is just aiding the negative views people have of anything

different or experimental. This is not a forum for sales anyway and Saul

Pressman does not do what he is doing for money, he likes seeing people

happy and healthy it seems to me. But that is only hearsay.

Ozone gas has over 100 years of very successful history in restoring

peoples health and nearly that many years of senseless attacks from the

mouth of greed and fear. Lets feed restoration of health and turn away

from senseless attack. IMO

Del Snow

Kenzie wrote:

>

> From: Kenzie <KENZIE@...>

>

> Jim Lambert wrote:

>

> > From: Jim Lambert <jlambert@...>

>

> > Saul might correct me, since he is the final word on everything

> > ozone around here,

>

> Please, why is Saul the " final word " ?

>

> > For the purposes you mention, you MUST use oxygen as a source

> > gas, not air, and none of the inexpensive bulb type generators

> > that would allow this have enough output. Yes, ozone can do what

> > you want to do, but the machine will cost over two thousand

> > dollars, unless a new machine has hit the market & I haven't

> > heard.

>

> I purchased a GE60 ozone generator, various glass and tubing accessories, two

widely publicized ozone therapy books, AND an ozone Steam Sauna Tent for LESS

THAN $2000., retail. I think it unlikely that you haven't heard about the

equipment from Ozone Services. And this is definitely NOT something new on the

market.

>

> > I have a small size medical generator which sold for about $2300,

> > and I can use it for cupping or insufflation, but it doesn't have

> > enough output for a steam sauna.

>

> Just the GE60 generator itself, which is the Larger choice of medical grade

generator's, sells for under $1500.

>

> > Like it or not, the device has

> > to be suited for the purpose to which it is applied. And, cheap

> > generators aren't suited to insufflation, cupping or saunas.

>

> Yes, the device HAS to be suited to the proper purpose. And " cheap " is a

relative term. Compared to the price you paid for your generator, Jim, I know

my generator was definitely LESS EXPENSIVE.

>

> >

> > Another possibility for your friend is to find a practitioner in

> > her area who uses ozone. Saul has a list of practitioners, and

> > some are also listed at http://www.oxytherapy.com

>

> Also on oxytherapy.com you will find www.ozoneservices.com , the manufacturer

I purchased my generator from, after much research which included talking to the

various designers.

>

> >

> > jim

> >

> > FAMANSON@... wrote:

> >

> > > Our CNA has just been cured of breast cancer, but had a enlargement

reappear

> > > about 3 months after she was found to have no cancer. One of her doctors

> > > said she needed to used some ozone rectally, that his symptom had happened

> > > with another patient and the ozone normalized her condition. Could she

find

> > > an inexpensive ozone machine which would generate the type needed for her

> > > therapy and where could she make such a purchase? Can one use the water

> > > purifier type machine with another type connection?

> > --

> > jim@... ICQ:16531148

> > http://www.doorway.to/madscience http://www.doorway.to/poetry

> >

> > Fear is the opposite of love. -- anony

>

> To Jim:

>

> Why is it that you advertise Saul to such an extent when there is a much

broader market available to folks? Many people in need of the benefits of ozone

therapy also have limited funds. I my self could not afford the $3000 to $4000

price tag on the generators available locally. So, 4 years later, and much more

educated on this subject, I am into the equipment at less than half of the

" going rate " . Fortunately I have not been in a life and death medical state

where I had to pay the inflated price for the equipment to save my life. I know

> personally, people who were in a cancer situation, and had to pay the price,

even though they were put into severe financial trouble for it. I also know

personally, people who Never could get the money together for Saul's equipment

and succumbed to loosing their battle of health.

>

> I am developing my oxygen therapy business to put the equipment into the hands

of the public without excluding many because of inflated prices. I am proud to

distribute for a company with ethics and morals.

>

> Again Jim, why is Saul the " final word " ?

>

> Diane Twedend

March 20, 2000

Good grief

>From: " Suzanne Hedley " <Goddess_Z@...>

>Reply-oxyplusonelist

><oxyplusonelist>

>Subject: Re: sale of ozone machines

>Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 21:53:58 -0700

>

>Wow, Saul, you're an inspiration.

>I've been here about a year now and have read many of your posts. I know

>that

>if I was in trouble with my health you'd be one the first I'd asked for

>advise....

>and not just because you are loaded with knowledge, but because your

>heart is in the right place.

>

>Suzanne

>

> > From: " Saul Pressman " <saul@...>

> >

> > Dear Diane,

> >

> > Normally I wouldn't respond, but since you asked Jim, I will take the

> > liberty of defending myself :

> >

> > 1) I provide the best warranty in the business. The ozone generators I

>make

> > are guaranteed to make ozone for as long as you own them. And if you

>resell

> > them, they are still under warranty. If you do decide to sell the unit,

>I

> > will test it and make sure all accessories are provided to the new

>owner,

> > without charge. No one else will do this.

> >

> > 2) The reason I can offer this warranty is that my generators are

>inherently

> > impervious to burnout, based as they are on Tesla's electrostatic cold

> > plasma principle. I have seen many of our generators operate for months,

>or

> > even years, after people have inadvertently allowed water or olive oil

>to

> > enter the unit. No one else's machines can do this. I do not apologize

>for

> > having the highest prices, because I have the best generators.

> >

> > 3) When pricing generators, make sure that you get the FINAL price --

> > including tank, regulator, all accessories, complete instructions on how

>to

> > use it, and shipping. This is what my price includes. Note also that my

> > Model 60 puts out 50% more ozone at 1/2 liter/minute, which is the flow

>rate

> > for the ozone sauna cabinet, than Den's GE-60. So it is actually

>cheaper,

> > for what you get.

> >

> > 4) I offer interest free financing on my generators to people who ask.

> > Sometimes I get burned, but not often enough to quit doing it.

> >

> > 5) I teach an accredited Ozone Hyperthermic Technician course, now

>available

> > on video tape. No other manufacturer has the knowledge to do this.

> >

> > 6) I have written two books on ozone and ozone therapy, which are

>available

> > free of charge to anyone for the asking. No one else does this.

> >

> > 7) I was the one who developed the ozone generator market in Canada with

>the

> > Vancouver Ozone Conference in June 1994, and the Toronto Ozone

>Conference

>in

> > September, bringing in the top doctors in ozone therapy from around the

> > world as presenters, in order to convince Canada's naturopaths to adopt

> > ozone therapy. I charged only $25 a head, and paid the rest myself. This

> > cost me over $25,000 out of my own pocket. No one else would do this.

> >

> > 8) This last fall, I staged three Ozone Hyperthermic Technician courses

>:

> > London, England; Dallas, Texas; and Vancouver, BC. With all the costs, I

>had

> > to kick in $5000 out of my own pocket to meet expenses. I did it gladly,

>in

> > order to have people properly trained and to counteract the incorrect

> > information that has been promulgated about ozone hyperthermia by my

> > competitors. (Such as : the red rash means that you have had too much

>ozone,

> > when it is simply the healing crisis writ large).

> >

> > 9) I revived and popularized ozone hyperthermia after it had laid fallow

>for

> > over 100 years, after being invented by Dr. Kellogg of Battle

>Creek,

> > Michigan in 1881. Others have once again followed on my coat tails, even

> > buying saunas from my supplier (who I had spent $50,000 setting up in

>1995)

> > out the back door, and then buying my new moulds from this same

>unscrupulous

> > supplier. The law suit continues ....

> >

> > 10) I have spent thousands of hours of my time, at all hours, without

> > charge, trying to help people with their various health problems, a

>great

> > many of them terminal. When people phone me, they are getting my home

>phone.

> > Since I got married in 1997, I let the machine catch the messages in the

> > afternoon while I run around and do banking and mailing, but I always

>try

>to

> > get back to the caller three times before giving up. Other manufacturers

>are

> > just that -- with no useful medical knowledge to offer their customers.

> >

> > 11) I have given away 57 ozone generators since I started in this

>business

> > in 1993, to people who could not afford them. I will put my record up

> > against any one else's.

> >

> > 12) When a person phones me up and says they have terminal cancer, i

>first

> > try and determine whether they can travel to one of the 112 clinics that

>I

> > have supplied equipment and training to. If they are unable to travel,

>or

>if

> > it is just too far, then and only then do I start talking about the

>purchase

> > of equipment. And in many cases, I end up renting the people saunas and

> > generators, which obviously provide far less remuneration. These are

>rent

>to

> > own plans, where 100% of the amount paid is applied to future purchase,

> > should they so wish, without interest charged. (I do not believe in

>usury).

> > No one else will do this.

> >

> > 13) My first job after I got graduated from college (electronics) was

> > repairing amplifiers at a music store in Winnipeg. I have always

>remembered

> > the motto the owner had on his wall : " The bitterness of poor quality

> > remains long after the sweetness of cheap price has faded. " When people

>tell

> > me that they are buying a corona discharge generator, I tell them to put

>my

> > phone number in a safe place, and when that one burns out, they can call

>me

> > up and buy one with the only Lifetime Warranty in the world.

> >

> > Best of Health!

> > Saul Pressman

> >

> > URL: http://www.plasmafire.com

> > email: saul@...

> >

> > Re: sale of ozone machines

> >

> > > From: Kenzie <KENZIE@...>

> >

> > > Please, why is Saul the " final word " ?

> >

> > > I purchased a GE60 ozone generator, various glass and tubing

>accessories,

> > two widely publicized ozone therapy books, AND an ozone Steam Sauna Tent

>for

> > LESS THAN $2000., retail. I think it unlikely that you haven't heard

>about

> > the equipment from Ozone Services. And this is definitely NOT something

>new

> > on the market.

> >

> > > Just the GE60 generator itself, which is the Larger choice of medical

> > grade generator's, sells for under $1500.

> >

> > > Yes, the device HAS to be suited to the proper purpose. And " cheap "

>is

>a

> > relative term. Compared to the price you paid for your generator, Jim,

>I

> > know my generator was definitely LESS EXPENSIVE.

> >

> > > Also on oxytherapy.com you will find www.ozoneservices.com , the

> > manufacturer I purchased my generator from, after much research which

> > included talking to the various designers.

> >

> > > To Jim:

> >

> > > Why is it that you advertise Saul to such an extent when there is a

>much

> > broader market available to folks? Many people in need of the benefits

>of

> > ozone therapy also have limited funds. I my self could not afford the

>$3000

> > to $4000 price tag on the generators available locally. So, 4 years

>later,

> > and much more educated on this subject, I am into the equipment at less

>than

> > half of the " going rate " . Fortunately I have not been in a life and

>death

> > medical state where I had to pay the inflated price for the equipment to

> > save my life. I know

> > personally, people who were in a cancer situation, and had to pay the

>price,

> > even though they were put into severe financial trouble for it. I also

>know

> > personally, people who Never could get the money together for Saul's

> > equipment and succumbed to loosing their battle of health.

> >

> > > I am developing my oxygen therapy business to put the equipment into

>the

> > hands of the public without excluding many because of inflated prices.

>I

>am

> > proud to distribute for a company with ethics and morals.

> >

> > > Again Jim, why is Saul the " final word " ?

> >

> > > Diane Tweden

> >

> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------

> > GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds! Get rates

> > as low as 0.0% Intro APR and no hidden fees.

> > Apply NOW!

> > 1/975/3/_/507288/_/953610634/

> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------

> >

> > OxyPLUS is an unmoderated e-ring dealing with oxidative therapies, and

>other alternative self- help subjects.

> >

> > THERE IS NO MEDICAL ADVICE HERE!

> >

> > This list is the 1st Amendment in action. The things you will find here

>are for information and research purposes only. We are people sharing

>information we believe in. If you act on ideas found here, you do so at

>your

>own risk. Self-help requires intelligence, common sense, and the ability

>to

>take responsibility for your own actions. By joining the list you agree to

>hold yourself FULLY responsible FOR yourself. Do not use any ideas found

>here without consulting a medical professional, unless you are a researcher

>or health care provider.

> >

> > You can unsubscribe via e-mail by sending A NEW e-mail to the following

>address - NOT TO THE OXYPLUS LIST! -

> > DO NOT PUT THIS IN THE SUBJECT LINE or BODY of the message! :

> >

> > oxyplus-unsubscribeonelist

> >

> > oxyplus-normalonelist - switch your subscription to normal

>mode.

> >

>

______________________________________________________

Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

March 20, 2000

Dear Jim,

OK, here is " Ozone Generators 101 " :

There are three basic ways to make ozone:

1) Ultraviolet

2) Corona discharge

3) Cold plasma

1) Ultraviolet produces a maximum of 3 ug/ml, so it is too low for

therapeutic use, the threshold of which is commonly stated as 20 ug/ml.

Also, ultraviolet lamps degrade seriously over time, and you never know

where you are with them, until they burn out. Good quality ones are useful

for air purification (and even clean water nicely), because they produce no

nitric oxide, but they are not medical machines.

2) Corona discharge ozone generators are manufactured by dozens of companies

around the world, and used for industrial and medical applications. There

are a great many different designs, of varying quality, but the best ones

ensure that the gas stream of oxygen/ozone contacts no metal. Because they

use current as their energy delivery technique, they can be designed to have

enormously high concentrations, far above the upper limit of medical use.

Their biggest drawback is their inherent design which uses a metal anode to

'receive' the electrons that create ozone from oxygen. The cathode may or

may not be metal. In Den's and 's both the cathode and the anode are

metal. (Cathode can be compared to a baseball pitcher and anode to the

catcher). Because of this metal anode, they have a degree of risk of a short

circuit, and are prone to burnout. If I had a dollar for every time someone

had asked me to fix their burned out corona discharge generator, I could

retire. (Since most parts are proprietary, it is not possible for one

manufacturer to fix another's unit, in most cases. Kind of like asking your

Ford dealer to have parts for a Chev.) So their greatest strength (using

current to make high concentrations with inexpensive parts) forces them to

use a part that gives them their greatest weakness (short circuit). As

surely as the sun will rise tomorrow, corona discharge generators will all

eventually fail -- 'tis the nature of the beast.

3) Cold plasma is the third technique of making ozone. It was invented by

electrical genius Nikola Tesla as a replacement for his corona discharge

design, which was prone to failure. Tesla formed the Tesla Ozone Company in

1900 and made corona discharge generators and sold them to doctors (years

before FDA in 1906). He started to get some generators coming back to the

factory, burnt out. Tesla did not like having his ozone generators come

back, so he set out to devise a method of eliminating burnout. He reasoned

that he had to eliminate the metal anode, and that meant he had to say

goodbye to using current as his energy source. This left him with voltage

alone (virtually), which is an electrostatic approach. He knew that inert

gases could carry high voltage (the neon light was NOT invented by the

Frenchman Claude in 1926 !), and began to experiment. He found he could jump

the voltage between glass rods filled with inert gases, and create a plasma

field that gave off no heat. And so the cold plasma idea was born. The

generators made from this invention were operated in ambient air, without

creation of nitric oxide, and were waved over prone patients, who inhaled

the small amount of ozone produced.

In 1992, my then-partner and I were introduced to Tesla's cold plasma idea

in a working unit over 75 years old, and asked to produce a version of it

suitable for medical use. My electronics training was so long ago (graduated

1972) that I had only been taught tubes and transistors and FETs, with there

had been a strong emphasis on radio design, and a good deal of talk about

electrostatics, which is now considered passé. The final ozone generator

prototype was a rotary design which produced an electrostatic plasma field

enclosed in glass through which oxygen was passed. (The patent lawyers said

it could not work, and we laughed behind our hands.) The plasma field was

found to be extremely stable, and even water did not completely quench it.

Best of all, because it used only voltage and vanishingly small amounts of

current, with no anode, there was no danger of it ever shorting out. The

limitations on longevity lie solely with the quality of the igniters, the

cleanliness of the tubes, the integrity of the seal, etc., all things that

we take great pains to control. To this end, we are beginning our own glass

blowing facility, which should enable us to dramatically lower our prices,

perhaps even down to the level of corona discharge. We have been

handicapped in the past by the high cost of our parts, with one of our

Plasmafire tubes alone costing twice as much as all the parts in a typical

corona discharge unit. We remain the only serious cold plasma generator

manufacturer in the world.

One of the things that is overlooked by some people is the contrast in

concentration between corona discharge and cold plasma generators. Den's

GE-60 puts out a very high concentration, over 90 ug/ml, at 1/32

liters/minute. 's EXT-120, designed by the same engineer (Vladimir

Stuchlich) who designed Den's, puts out a whopping 120 ug/ml. These are

potentially dangerous levels. People can make mistakes and hurt themselves.

Colon perforation, eardrum blistering and vaginal bleeding are some of the

problems I have been told of, when high concentration machines have been

used by people without enough training or information. Cold plasma

generators are inherently safer in this regard, because I have never been

able to get more that 62 ug/ml at 1/32 l/m. (It is generally considered that

ozone administered internally is immune suppressive above 70 ug/ml). So cold

plasma is fool proof. Since I am promoting the use of ozone by people in

their own home, (self-treatment = self-responsibility), I fell it is

necessary to have a simple, robust, uncomplicated machine. And when dealing

with the large number of people with CFS and other brain-fogging illnesses,

it is good to have some technology that doesn't let you hurt yourself. I am

proud to say that no one has ever been harmed using our cold plasma

generators. FIRST DO NO HARM.

Regarding the other end of the spectrum, high flowrate, I would point out

that the short tubes used in corona discharge (which let them make nice

small boxes) have a disadvantage. At 1/2 l/m, Den's GE-60 only puts out

about 21 ug/ml. At 1/2 l/m, our cold plasma generators put out 32 ug/ml.

This is 50% more, yet sometimes people only see the price, and forget they

are getting less for their money in this respect as well.

Since this is a flow rate that is used in the sauna, this is a salient

point.

Class dismissed !

Best of Health!

Saul Pressman

URL: http://www.plasmafire.com

email: saul@...

Re: sale of ozone machines

> From: Jim Lambert <jlambert@...>

>

> > From: Kenzie <KENZIE@...>

> >

> > > From: Jim Lambert <jlambert@...>

> >

> > > Saul might correct me, since he is the final word on everything

> > > ozone around here,

> >

> > Please, why is Saul the " final word " ?

>

> Kenzie,

>

> That is my opinion as a listmember. (not as moderator) As far as

> I am aware, Saul is the only professional in that field on this

> list. So obviously, my familiarity with him is greater because

> he joined this list when we splintered off from the oxylist in

> '98, and

> has contributed to it heavily ever since. If another professional

> in the field wants to speak up, I'll be happy to include him or

> her in my opinions.

>

> > I purchased a GE60 ozone generator, various glass and tubing

accessories, two widely publicized ozone therapy books, AND an ozone Steam

Sauna Tent for LESS THAN $2000., retail.

>

> I'm delighted to hear it! Unfortunately, it still isn't in the

> inexpensive category, IMO.

>

> >I think it unlikely that you haven't heard about the equipment from Ozone

Services. And this is definitely NOT something new on the market.

>

> What are you implying? I'm not fond of innuendo. You may think it

> as unlikely as you wish, but although I read Den's posts on the

> oxylist for a year I haven't been to his website in probably two

> years, or more, and I don't remember very much detail that far

> back when I was just surfing. Just a few things that were

> important to me.

>

> I don't like your ambiguity. Exactly what point

> are you trying to make? Why not just come out and say whatever

> you've got stuck in your craw.

>

> > > Like it or not, the device has

> > > to be suited for the purpose to which it is applied. And, cheap

> > > generators aren't suited to insufflation, cupping or saunas.

> >

> > Yes, the device HAS to be suited to the proper purpose. And " cheap " is

a relative term. Compared to the price you paid for your generator, Jim, I

know my generator was definitely LESS EXPENSIVE.

>

> If it rings your chimes to have spent less than I did, be my

> guest. But I got a good deal on the last unit of a model

> closeout, so I didn't pay retail.

>

> And, I'm rusty as hell about the differences of corona discharge

> ozonators vs. cold

> plasma units, but I remember when I listened to all of the

> discussions on the oxylist I decided I preferred the cold plasma

> design.

>

> I think the ozone services products units are corona

> discharge. There is something in the design difference that makes

> the cold plasma design more durable I believe. It has a lifetime

> warranty. I don't think the corona discharge types can offer

> that.

>

> > Also on oxytherapy.com you will find www.ozoneservices.com , the

manufacturer I purchased my generator from, after much research which

included talking to the various designers.

>

> My preference is for cold plasma. I hope Saul writes & explains

> it again.

>

> jim

>

> --

> jim@... ICQ:16531148

> http://www.doorway.to/madscience http://www.doorway.to/poetry

>

> Fear is the opposite of love. -- anony

>

> ------------------------------------------------------------------------

> DON'T HATE YOUR RATE!

> Get a NextCard Visa, in 30 seconds! Get rates as low as

> 0.0% Intro or 9.9% Fixed APR and no hidden fees.

> Apply NOW!

> 1/2120/3/_/507288/_/953613183/

> ------------------------------------------------------------------------

>

> OxyPLUS is an unmoderated e-ring dealing with oxidative therapies, and

other alternative self- help subjects.

>

> THERE IS NO MEDICAL ADVICE HERE!

>

> This list is the 1st Amendment in action. The things you will find here

are for information and research purposes only. We are people sharing

information we believe in. If you act on ideas found here, you do so at your

own risk. Self-help requires intelligence, common sense, and the ability to

take responsibility for your own actions. By joining the list you agree to

hold yourself FULLY responsible FOR yourself. Do not use any ideas found

here without consulting a medical professional, unless you are a researcher

or health care provider.

>

> You can unsubscribe via e-mail by sending A NEW e-mail to the following

address - NOT TO THE OXYPLUS LIST! -

> DO NOT PUT THIS IN THE SUBJECT LINE or BODY of the message! :

>

> oxyplus-unsubscribeonelist

>

> oxyplus-normalonelist - switch your subscription to normal mode.

>

March 21, 2000

OK Saul I have a question. I have been working with Basil Wainwright for

over a year now, have gotten to know him on a personal level. To me he is

one of the most helpful people I know, he has treated over 6000 people in

Kenya for free in the last 3 years here, all of which would have surely died

from any of the many diseases that they have had. He has also worked with

ozone since 1983, his claims all 24 of them have just been approved by the

US patent office and have already ( I believe ) been published in the

Gazette. The reason for the delay has been attributed to the corruption and

bribes that office received by the pharmaceuticals, the result of which

landed the person responsible in jail. I have no other affiliation with

Basil, as I am here on a humanitarian Mission of my own. I have hooked up

with him because he in my belief has the best and fastest way to eradicate

diseases of the face of the earth. I have witnessed his process in action

numerous times and have studied what he does as well as interviewed his

former patients, so I know it is all true.

Now, the problem I have is that I went thru the archives and I see a lot of

Wainwright bashing, a lot of praise too, I must admit. Why is it that this

person is the foremost authority on Ozone and Oxygen and yet all the so

called experts do not even communicate with him? I understand that there

have been problems as there always are and always will be, but isn't this

all being done for humanity and the advancement of these type of therapies?

Are you and all the other experts so stubborn that you can not lay down your

judgements and differences so that you can work together on a better way? I

know you, Saul have a lot of respect from many people, you would have mine

if you even attempt to right the wrongs. When Mr. Wainwrights claims are

brought to the surface, it will be known who created and advanced this

technology, I do not have the claims at hand, but I know they are being

copied and sent to me and I shall post them on the list as a point of

interest.

To me it is evident that if all of us do not get together and try to work

alongside one another, we will never earn the recognition and effect of what

Oxygen and Ozone can do. It is first and foremost in achieving the goal that

all people directly related in any way to this technology must do. I have

heard Mr. Wainwright say many times, " We must all work together as an

unstoppable force if we are ever to achieve our goals " , I truly believe

that. I want to unwind the hostility that I see in the archives, one step at

a time, I hope and pray that you are all of the same character.

Re: sale of ozone machines

From: " Saul Pressman " <saul@...>