Re: Website information on Mold

[Guest guest]

Mark,

Nothing personal and please don't take that way, but the information

on the website leaves alot to be desired. This information that you

state, " The information on the website is based on current and

verifiable peer reviewed scientific data. In addition it contains

links to the EPA's website on mold and other reputable governmental

agencies. " is a joke right?! You're not really serious I hope.

Reputable governmental agencies is an oxymoron, they are the ones

that got us in this position to begin with. Do a search on the GAO

archives they have been aware of this for a long time and clearly

state it too be to big of an issue and we don't know how to handle

it.

Some of your resources only have the qualifications to deal with

allergens, not toxic exposures or reactions, such as the ACOEM.

There is a couple of good resources that are used such as the,

IICRC, IAHA, the New York City Dept.of Health, the AIHA is the only

reason I gave your resource department a B. Otherwise it would have

received an F. I don't have time to comment on the other grades that

I have given the health department. You need to find resources that

DO NOT have a politicial or financial agenda in the interest of big

industry. We're talking about human lives and the health affects of

mycotoxins due to indoor contamination. The way it has affected many

human lives, to the extent it has,our medical records prove it. Look

at the records before and after. You might want to critize the

adults because of possible litigation, but you can't blame or

critize the children, or can you....

People from Wisconsin that have contacted me can not seem to get any

medical help FROM ANY AGENCY THERE OR DOCTORS, because all these

people want to do is pretend it is all allergies, when in fact it is

not and people are gravely ill and some have died as a direct

result. This also pertains to OSHA that many have contacted and some

of these phone conversations were some of the nastiest people that

we have come across. Their response, " So what do you want us to do

about it? " " We can't help you. " " We don't get involved with

that. " " Contact the EPA, contact this one, contact that one. " Keep

passing the buck, nobody wants to be responsible.

Mold DOES cause asthma and I will send you that research along with

a couple other articles that you should have on your website, if you

are allowed to post them. The ACOEM report has been torn to shreds

because of their methods (or lack of) by their own members who were

excluded from the review.

I'm sure there will be others that will add to this. I'm sorry to

say that the information that you are promoting is a slap in the

face to the people LIVING IT on this board, at least the ones that

are still here that hadn't paid the ultimate price.

KC

Health- F

Assessment- D

Remediation- C-

Resources- B-

Frequently Asked Questions

Mold: Frequently Asked Questions

The information found in the following Frequently Asked Questions

was developed through a joint effort between the Wisconsin

Department of Health and Family Services and the Wisconsin Section

of the American Industrial Hygiene Association whose contributions

are kindly acknowledged. We encourage you to explore the information

provided. If you still can't find what you're looking for, or you

want more information, contact the Wisconsin Division of Public

Health, Bureau of Environmental Health, PO Box 2659, Madison, WI

53701-2659, (608) 266-1120, or email the webmaster at

webmaildph@....

The following questions are organized by topical area. Numeric

references at the end of each answer refer to the source documents

primarily used to arrive at the stated answer. References are found

at the end of the answer list. Click on the links below to see the

questions in the desired topic areas:

Health

Assessment

Remediation

Resources

Health:

How can mold affect me?

Health effects associated with airborne mold exposure are allergic

reactions, eye and respiratory irritation, infection and toxicity.

About 10% of the population is allergic to one or more types of

mold. Many of these people will be affected by outdoor as well as

indoor exposures to mold.

Respiratory mold infection (growth in the lungs) can occur, but is

rare. Occurrence is limited almost exclusively to immune-compromised

patients, including those with transplants, chemotherapy, AIDS,

neonates, etc. Toxicity is related to the ability of some molds to

produce mycotoxins. There is not sufficient evidence to link health

effects to indoor exposure to airborne mycotoxins, although

ingestion of moldy food with mycotoxins has resulted in illness.

Anyone suspecting they are ill from mold exposure should seek

treatment and advice from a medical doctor. It should also be noted

that other factors can influence indoor air quality such as other

organisms, chemicals such as solvents and pesticides, or gases such

as carbon monoxide. Such factors may warrant consideration in some

cases. If you experience health symptoms you should see a physician

(3,14).

When is mold considered toxic?

The term " toxic mold " is misleading. Molds may produce substances

called mycotoxins that modify their environment. Some of these

substances are useful as antibiotics; but others are potentially

harmful, especially if eaten. However, there is little evidence that

breathing mycotoxins in mold-contaminated buildings represents a

health hazard. The American College of Occupational and

Environmental Medicine states, " Current scientific evidence does not

support the proposition that human health has been adversely

affected by inhaled mycotoxins in the home, school, or office

environment. " One mold, Stachybotrys, is frequently singled out.

Initially thought related to cases of a lung disease called

idiopathic pulmonary hemosiderosis among infants, the U.S. Centers

for Disease Control has stated, " In a further review of our first

investigation, CDC reviewers and an external panel of experts

determined that there was insufficient evidence of any association

between exposure to S. atra or other toxic fungi and idiopathic

pulmonary hemosiderosis in infants. " Current guidance of federal and

professional organizations is that mold growth should be controlled

in an appropriate manner, regardless of the type of mold

(1,3,6,12,14).

Can mold affect people with asthma?

A person with asthma who is sensitive to molds could have an asthma

attack triggered by either indoor or outdoor exposures. With respect

to allergy, the American College of Occupational and Environmental

Medicine (ACOEM) states, " While indoor molds are well-recognized

allergens, outdoor molds are more generally important. " A physician

should be consulted if mold exposure may be a concern.

For people with asthma, a common health strategy is to avoid

exposure by minimizing the amount of dust in the home. Humidity

control is also very important. ACOEM supports indoor moisture

control and the broad array of indoor respiratory challenges it

affects. Moisture control is also strongly supported by the National

Academy of Sciences as outlined in its report, Damp Indoor Spaces

and Health (3,14).

How can airborne fungal infections be prevented in hospitals?

Controlling infection rates requires that hospital management

assures that proper planning and dust control practices are in

place. This includes:

Involving infection control staff in construction and maintenance

planning,

Managing traffic patterns to control dust,

Using wet methods and HEPA vacuuming for cleaning critical care

areas,

Cleaning and maintenance of humidifcation and filtration systems,

and

Maintaining proper pressure differentials are maintained in

protective environments.

Exposure of the small but growing population with impaired immune

systems is a concern. Molds can cause infections in susceptible

people, particularly in hospital settings. Cases of hospital

acquired respiratory fungal infection have been associated with

construction activity, contaminated air filters, air conditioning

systems and open windows. Suggested acceptable levels of airborne

mold in protective patient environments are very low. In highly

filtered environments such as bone marrow transplant wards,

concentrations no greater than 15 colony forming units per cubic

meter (CFU/m3) 0.1 CFU/m3 for Aspergillus fumigatus have been

proposed.

For those with depressed immune systems, it is important to minimize

exposure to dust both at the hospital and at home. The same

principles applied to controlling dust in the hospital also apply at

home. Care should be taken to minimize dust using wet cleaning

methods and HEPA vacuuming. In particular, exposure to soil and

plant materials such as compost should be avoided as they can have

large numbers of mold. For more information on controlling mold and

related infections in healthcare environments, please see the

Guidelines for Environmental Infection Control in Healthcare

Facilities, Recommendations of CDC and the Healthcare Infection

Control Practices Advisory Committee (HICPAC)

http://www.cdc.gov/ncidod/hip/enviro/Enviro_guide_03.pdf (exit DHFS)

(8)

Assessment:

What is a safe level of mold in air?

There is no specific number that defines either safe or unsafe mold

exposure. Some experts have proposed airborne mold guidelines,

however none of these have been adopted by regulatory agencies. Mold

concentrations outdoors vary greatly with respect to time, species,

and amount. Exposure to airborne mold outdoors, where levels often

exceed thousands of spores per cubic meter, is considered safe for

the general public. Except in buildings with extensive mold growth,

the amount of mold found in indoor air is usually much less than

what is found outdoors. For people with allergies to mold however,

there may be no practical level of exposure, either indoors or

outdoors, that would not create discomfort or harm. It is therefore

wise to remove and prevent indoor mold growth.

In extremely dusty environments, health effects have been observed

in agricultural workers exposed to extremely high mold levels. In

rare cases, very low levels of certain kinds of mold have been shown

to affect people with severe immune deficiency, such as bone marrow

transplant patients.

When should I evacuate because of mold?

Evacuation in response to mold should be rare. There is no

established level of airborne mold that is accepted as unsafe for

the general population. Those cases where evacuation may be

warranted include spaces undergoing mold removal activity, and

spaces that are occupied by sensitive populations, such as infants,

elderly, the immune-suppressed, and those with medically confirmed

symptoms related to mold exposure. It is generally recommended that

exposure to mold indoors be minimized. However, it must accepted

that mold exposure is inevitable in the world in which we live. We

are exposed to many of the same mold species indoors as well as

outdoors. Ultimately the decision to vacate a space should rest with

the individual occupant, parent or guardian and be based on the

amount of exposure, individual sensitivity and the advice of a

medical doctor. Communication from building owners to all occupants

is very important to arriving at appropriate decisions (1).

Does the type of mold determine the clean up plan?

No. The current guidance from federal agencies and professional

organizations is that mold growth in indoor environments should be

controlled in a proper manner regardless of the type of mold

(1,3,4,5,6).

Is mold growth on roof sheathing in my attic a problem?

It is not uncommon to find mold on the underside of roof sheathing.

Usually this is the result of insufficient venting, such as venting

bathroom or laundry exhaust into the attic and/or insufficient peak

or soffit vents. Moisture-laden warm air that enters the attic

rises, contacts the cold sheathing and condenses. If this happens

often enough it can affect the structural integrity of the roof

through warping or rot. Although it may be possible for mold-

contaminated attic air to enter the house in some cases, the

function and integrity of the roof should be the greater concern.

Consult with a home energy or roofing specialist on a proper

ventilation strategy.

How can I tell if remediation (cleaning) has been effective?

The source of moisture responsible for the mold growth must have

been corrected. No visible mold or related odors should remain in

the work area. There should also be no debris present. For projects

where extensive mold growth was identified, work should have been

done under containment conditions (a plastic enclosure under

negative pressure evident by the inward movement of plastic walls).

The work area should have been thoroughly cleaned using wet methods

such as wet wiping with a detergent solution and by vacuuming with a

HEPA vacuum. Sampling is generally not recommended due to the high

variability inherent in mold levels (4,5,9,14).

How do you test for mold?

While testing can be useful in some cases such as for conducting

health-related research or investigating fungal species-specific

health effects, deciding what to do about mold should be based

primarily on visual assessment, knowledge of the building structure,

and the history of water damage in the building. There are many

methods of assessing mold exposures; all of them have limitations.

Further, mold levels within a structure are highly variable and

large sample number is required to obtain meaningful data. Some

research suggests that there may be less variability in data for

components of microbiological cell walls, than for entire organisms,

but questions regarding how well such data correspond to true

exposure remain. More information on sampling can be found by

consulting the references listed or by consulting with an EMLAP

accredited laboratory. You may also review a white paper on the

subject produced by the Wisconsin Section of the American Industrial

Hygiene Association at http://www.aihawi.org/ (6,7,14).

How many samples are necessary to find a mold problem?

The proper number and location of air samples is often a matter of

debate and depends on the questions to be answered, strength of

desired conclusions and on cost. Mold levels vary greatly with

season, temperature, humidity and time of day. This variability

requires that multiple samples be collected at each location to be

sure the observed difference is real and not just due to chance. A

report recently released by the National Academy of Sciences

addresses the difficulties associated with sampling. " Thus, because

only sparse data are available on variation of exposure to biologic

agents in the home environment, it is not possible to recommend how

many samples should be taken to produce an accurate assessment of

the risk-relevant exposure. However, there is a strong suggestion

that airborne concentrations are characterized by high variability

over time, an indication that one sample per home is unlikely to be

sufficient even when acute health effects are being considered,

because variations in exposure occur over very short periods. "

Sampling plans, when used, should be designed by an experienced

professional to answer specific questions. The design should be

statistically robust and the goals and strength of the plan should

be adequately defended prior to proceeding. More information on

sampling can be found by consulting the references listed or by

consulting with an EMLAP accredited laboratory 5 (6,7,14).

Why are outdoor mold counts important?

In most instances, indoor mold levels will closely parallel outdoor

levels, both in type and amount. In naturally ventilated buildings

such as many homes, air from the outside enters the building

whenever the windows or doors are open. Mold is present outdoors and

can enter buildings in many ways, such as when windows and doors are

open and people are entering and leaving. Depending on the

effectiveness of the building air cleaning devices, outdoor fungi

can be removed somewhat from the airstream. The extent to which such

a reduction occurs depends on the efficiency of the filtration

system and how " open " the building is to the outdoors. Outdoor

counts will vary greatly and may in turn cause similar variation in

indoor levels. Because of this variability, it can be difficult to

differentiate true difference between outdoor and indoor samples

without taking a large number of samples. Soil and plant materials

are major sources of airborne mold. Studies indicate that outdoor

fungal levels vary greatly by region, season, weather conditions,

and air movement. According to data published by the American

Academy of Asthma, Allergy and Immunology (www.aaaai.org) (exit

DHFS) outdoor mold counts for major U.S. cities regularly exceed

10,000 spores per cubic meter of air during much of the year. (6,7)

What is an acceptable level of mold in surface dust?

Surface or bulk material sampling is often used to determine if mold

is present on surfaces or materials such as carpeting and textiles.

However, this may not always be necessary. Often, HEPA vacuuming or

laundering may be sufficient to clean surfaces where mold spores had

accumulated. When mold growth occurs on the surface, professional

cleaning or replacement may be required. Methods of sampling

surfaces include tape samples (or tape-lift samples), swab samples,

and vacuum samples. As with air samples, guidelines have been

offered to help define " normal " levels of mold particles in surface

dust. However, these numbers can be misleading and care must be

exercised in the interpretation of sample data. The weight of the

sample can also affect the result obtained. In addition to mold per

unit weight and mold per unit area, total dust per unit area should

also be recorded. Perhaps of greatest importance is evaluation of

the microbial flora reported in the sample data. This can provide

insight into the moisture conditions of the building. A mycologist

may be consulted for assistance with data interpretation. More

information on sampling can be found by consulting the references

listed or by consulting with an EMLAP accredited laboratory 5

(1,2,6,7,14).

Remediation:

How can I respond to a mold problem?

The first step is to identify and repair the moisture problem. Mold

will not grow unless sufficient moisture is present. Small amounts

of mold growing on visible surfaces can usually be easily cleaned by

the homeowner. Care must be taken to control dust related to the

cleaning and repair efforts. Larger amounts of mold may require more

extensive evaluation, repair or replacement, and dust control.

Professional assistance may also be necessary. For more information,

see DHFS fact sheet (4,5).

What are appropriate control methods for mold remediation?

There are a number of options available to clean up a mold

condition, depending on the size and type of surfaces affected. Most

important is the need to control dust associated with the clean-up

activity. Dust should be controlled using damp cleaning methods and

by using HEPA vacuuming. HEPA refers to High Efficiency Particulate

Air meaning that the vacuum filter is capable of removing particles

that are 0.3 um (micron: one millionth of a meter) in diameter at

99.97% efficiency. Typical vacuum filters will not capture spores as

efficiently and may further disperse them in air. When the size of

the area with visible mold growth is large or when sensitive people

(defined above) are nearby, containing the work area in a plastic

enclosure is appropriate. The air inside the enclosure should be

actively exhausted to the outdoors by placing the enclosed

environment under negative pressure with respect to the rest of the

room or building. This means if there are any leaks in the

enclosure, that air will move from the cleaner areas outside the

enclosure into the enclosure, and minimize air movement in the

opposite direction. More specific guidance is offered by the

references below and should be followed (4,5).

How should I handle carpet, drywall and other porous materials that

got wet?

When porous items such as drywall and carpet get wet, they should be

dried within 48 hours or discarded. Porous items or surfaces are

those that can soak up water easily. They include drywall, clothing,

textiles, upholstered furniture, leather, paper goods, and many

types of artwork or decorative items. Many soft materials can be a

food source for mold. When these materials soak up water, moisture

can be retained for extended periods increasing the potential for

mold growth. Foam carpet pads can retain moisture long enough to

support mold growth. In addition to flooding, extended periods of

high interior humidity can lead to mold growth. This is sometimes

indicated by a musty odor. If sewage or gray water is involved, the

materials should be discarded. For assistance on structural

restoration from water damage, consult a professional familiar with

the guidelines of the Institute for Inspection, Cleaning and

Restoration Certification (IICRC) (4,5,9).

How can settled spores be removed from porous items?

In environments where the porous materials have not been wet, but

there has been extensive visible mold growth on nearby building

surfaces, removing settled mold spores is possible using various

cleaning methods. HEPA vacuuming is a good method to consider. If

the materials show visible mold growth or are subjected to high

humidity for extended periods, cleaning is much less effective.

Unless the item has high value, disposal is often the most cost-

effective solution (4,5,9).

How can I clean mold on hard surfaces?

After the source of moisture has been controlled, visible mold

growth on hard (non-porous) can be scrubbed using detergent and

water. Some stains may still be seen on the surface after cleaning.

Various strengths of bleach solutions have also been recommended for

disinfecting, but proper safety precautions should be taken to

prevent skin, eye and respiratory damage when bleach is used. (See

DHFS fact sheet, " Mold in Your Home: Cleaning Options " ). There is no

evidence that bleach is more effective than detergents in removing

mold from non-porous surfaces. The exception to this is when the

water damage is related to sewer backups where there is a concern

for infectious disease transmission. Following cleaning, the

surfaces should be rinsed and thoroughly dried to reduce the

potential for more mold. The underlying cause of the mold growth

(water or moisture) should be corrected to prevent re-growth (4,5,9).

Do ozone generators work for mold?

Ozone generators are not recommended for mold control. Ozone is a

reactive form of oxygen that is toxic to living cells. Ozone levels

sufficient to kill microorganisms are predictably irritating to the

eyes, nose, throat and lungs and can aggravate asthma. In some cases

where ozone has been used for mold control, reported levels were

high enough to present a serious health hazard in occupied spaces.

While ozone can kill microorganisms, it does not remove allergens

from air, even if they are dead. Ozone generators or other types of

air cleaning devices do not address the underlying reasons why mold

is growing on building materials or other articles in your home. If

there is visible mold growth, it should be properly cleaned up or

the affected materials should be removed. Many ozone-generating

devices are aggressively marketed for improving indoor air quality.

If you have a complaint to register about the use or marketing of

such a device, call the Wisconsin Department of Agriculture, Trade

and Consumer Protection at 800-422-7128. For more information about

ozone, air cleaners and indoor air quality see the USEPA website at

http://www.epa.gov/iaq/pubs/ozonegen.html (exit DHFS).

Who is qualified to do mold work?

Individuals involved in mold assessment and remediation must commit

to following standards of care. A number of federal agencies and

professional organizations have produced helpful references that

help define standards of care for mold practice. (See the references

section of the frequently asked questions).

There are no national or state recognized mold certifications. There

are a number of credentialing programs that provide evidence of

health and safety competency including the American Board of

Industrial Hygiene and American Society of Safety Engineers.

Credentials are not necessarily an indicator of mold work

proficiency. They are an important measure of general competency and

professionalism, but must be combined with professional education

and experience relevant to the essential body of information that

defines the standards of care. Mold assessment and remediation is a

multi-disciplinary process. Simply being able to test for mold is of

little benefit if other tasks such building inspection, thorough

investigation, and data interpretation are not properly performed.

As in any business, it is important to ask for a statement of

qualifications and a client reference list. In particular, consumers

should evaluate the professional's familiarity and understanding of

the references listed below. Asking to see evidence of professional

development, participation in professional organizations and

obtaining customer references is also appropriate.

References:

Where can I find information on mold?

The following references are important to consult when considering

the proper method to assess and respond to mold conditions.

1 Report of Microbial Growth Task Force, American Industrial Hygiene

Association, May 2001. http://www.aiha.org/GovernmentAffairs-

PR/html/prmoldsources.htm (exit DHFS)

2 OSHA Technical Manual, Section III, Chapter 2

http://www.osha.gov/dts/osta/otm/otm_iii/otm_iii_2.html (exit DHFS)

3 Adverse Human Health Effects Associated with Molds in the Indoor

Environment, American College of Occupational and Environmental

Medicine, 2002 http://www.acoem.org/guidelines/article.asp?ID=52

(exit DHFS)

4 Mold Remediation in Schools and Commercial Buildings, United

States Environmental Protection Agency, Office of Air and Radiation,

Indoor Environments Division (6609-J) EPA 402-K-01-001, March 2001

http://www.epa.gov/iaq/molds/mold_remediation.html (exit DHFS)

5 Guidelines on Assessment and Remediation of Fungi in Indoor

Environments, New York City Department of Health & Mental Hygiene,

Bureau of Environmental & Occupational Disease Epidemiology , Jan.

2002 http://www.ci.nyc.ny.us/html/doh/html/epi/moldrpt1.html (exit

DHFS)

6 Bioaerosols, Assessment and Control. American Conference of

Governmental Industrial Hygienists, 1999

7 Field Guide for the Determination of Biological Contaminants in

Biological Samples. AIHA Biosafety Committee

8 Guidelines for Environmental Infection Control in Healthcare

Facilities, Recommendations of CDC and the Healthcare Infection

Control Practices Advisory Committee (HICPAC)

http://www.cdc.gov/ncidod/hip/enviro/Enviro_guide_03.pdf (exit DHFS)

9 IICRC Reference Guide for Professional Mold Remediation (IICRC

S250)

10 EPA- Ozone Generators that are Sold as Air Cleaners: An

Assessment of Effectiveness and Health Consequences

(http://www.epa.gov/iaq/pubs/ozonegen.html) (exit DHFS)

11 Addressing Indoor Environmental Concerns During Remodeling,

Ventilation for Homes, US Environmental Protection Agency.

http://www.epa.gov/iaq/homes/hip-ventilation.html (exit DHFS)

12 Statement for the Record Before the Subcommittees on Oversight

and Investigations and Housing and Community Opportunity Committee

on Financial Services United States House of Representatives State

of the Science on Molds and Human Health Statement of C.

Redd, M.D. Chief, Air Pollution and Respiratory Health Branch

National Center for Environmental Health Centers for Disease Control

and Prevention, U.S. Department of Health and Human Services For

Release on Delivery Expected at 2:00 PM on Thursday, July 18, 2002

http://www.cdc.gov/nceh/airpollution/images/moldsci.pdf (exit DHFS)

13 American Industrial Hygiene Association, The Environmental

Microbiology Proficiency Analytical Testing (EMPAT) Program,

http://www.aiha.org/LaboratoryServices/html/empat1.htm (exit DHFS)

14 Damp Indoor Spaces and Health (2004), Board on Health Promotion

and Disease Prevention, Institute of Medicine,

http://www.nap.edu/books/0309091934/html/ (exit DHFS)

15 Assessment, Remediation, and Post-Remediation Verification of

Mold in Buildings, AIHA Guideline 3- 2004, American Industrial

Hygiene Association

--- In , " Mark " <chamberlain1959@y...>

wrote:

>

> For residents of the State of Wisconsin, the Department of Health

and

> Family Service maintains a website on mold. The information on

the

> website is based on current and verifiable peer reviewed

scientific

> data. In addition it contains links to the EPA's website on mold

and

> other reputable governmental agencies. If anyone has any

questions

> regarding the information posted in our website they are welcome

to

> contact us via our website.

>

> Thank you.

>

> Mark Chamberlain

> Environmental Health Specialist

> Wisconsin Department of Health and Family Services

> chambmh@d...

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Mark -

I hope you'll stick around a while. If you do, you're going to find out very

quickly that a lot of us only WISH we'd merely been abandoned by the public

health agencies. As it is, the situation is far more dire.

It's a complex tale, and I certainly won't try to tell it all here. If it were

just a comedy of errors, it would be sad enough. But basically what has happened

is that the insurance industry has gotten a stranglehold on public health in

this area. They're the ones who write the checks when a person is made ill from

mold through negligence, accident, malfeasance or fraud. They are NOT happy

campers! Ordinarily, you'd figure this was the business of business, and that

public health had to heed its own mission, no matter what. And that's precisely

what the insurance industry would like to have you believe is the case. But it

isn't so.

If you do the background work, what you'll find is that the insurance

companies aren't just spending all that money directly on claims. They spend an

awful lot of it hiring attorneys and expert witnesses to win cases against the

sick people making the claims. With an estimated 10,000 claims or cases open

nationwide, you can believe they've got every motivation to stomp as many claims

as possible. Insurance companies aren't too surprising. Attorneys aren't too

surprising. But they sure are enterprising. The expert witnesses they hire are

relatively few and fairly high-profile because of it. You'll find familiar names

from the PHS, old television exposes on phoney IME's, a couple of otherwise

respectable universities, and a couple who are just your run-of-the-mill hired

guns. Almost none of them have performed even basic research of their own. They

cherry-pick the literature, violate every ethics rule you ever learned, and drag

it into the courts trailing their PhD's behind them. If

they only hurt a few people, we wouldn't be here. But it's little kids and

families and schoolteachers and people in public housing, Mark. It's the very

same people you were intended to look after. Thousands of us, some in your own

state. And we've been politicized right into statistical insignificance,

especially if you believe the claptrap you're being fed. This group is 100%

free, and nobody's selling anything. It's purely a grassroots support group that

sprang up because it was desperately needed.

The ACOEM Statement on Mold is pure garbage, never stood up to a regular peer

review, and won't hold up against a strong examination of either the methodology

involved or the bad math used to draw its conclusions. Limited rat studies.

That's what you get. The Mahattan Institute paid for another version of that

same report and published it. The U.S. Chambers of Commerce then supported and

quoted both of those, and they all three quote each other in support of the

other - even in court. When someone caught them out, she got sued in an attempt

to shut her up. The IOM report is somewhat better, but sadly, also references

that other joke of a report and never really tries to address the topic of mold

toxins, because the research isn't there. No one wrote about us, so we don't

exist. It's an ugly, ugly story, Mark. You'd think the people in public health

would want to help, but mostly they don't. They seem to believe what they've

been told, and nobody's going after cooperative funding or

writing grants that might help.

Quite possibly the worst of it, is that all of those reports, and most of the

other extant literature, deals only with allergic or infectious types of

mold-related illness. What most of us here know, is that mycotoxicosis is just

as devastating, if not moreso. Thanks to getting short shrift in the research

budgets and getting slammed in the courts, we have to fight and scratch to get

diagnosed or treated, and god help us if we have a legal problem on our hands as

well. They always say the same thing - either " more research is need " , or

" current research does not show.. " . And that's what the people caught in

Katrina and Rita got served to them - " Put some bleach on it. " You really don't

want to get the phone calls some of us get.

I feel that you probably posted those links in an attempt to be helpful to us.

And if that is your intention, then for heaven's sake, please use that expensive

education you got to check out what I'm telling you! As you can see by KC's

earlier response, this group has been at it for years. Everyone's sick. And

tired. And we need the support of people in public health who won't get swayed

by all the crock the insurance industry is trying to shove down your throats.

You want documentation? We've got documentation. You want to run your own little

pocket survey? Go for it! We've got your population right here. Pick any

demographic you like, we can probably come up with it without even logging out.

All you need are a few controls to see that it's worth pursuing. You want real

research? We've got member physicians on board right here - clinicians who've

been at it for years, and some doing formal studies. No rats, real humans.

Considering going back to do a thesis? All the materials you

could ask for, and the field is wide open. Say what you need, and it can be

provided.

So, when I say welcome to you, know that I mean that a way you may have never

encountered before, and may possibly learn to regret some time. It's a real can

of worms, but you are welcome to it. Any time you want to jump in here, please

go right ahead.

Mark <chamberlain1959@...> wrote:

Serena

There is no such thing as an anomaly. Recheck your original premise.

...Ayn Rand,

paraphrased

---------------------------------

Photos – Showcase holiday pictures in hardcover

Photo Books. You design it and we’ll bind it!

[Guest guest]

I thought that most insurance policies disqualified mold claims now..

I think that *whoever is actually responsible* should pay..

[Guest guest]

You can think what you wish, and I can even agree with you. But the game is

totally rigged. It's extraordinary that the owner of your place even got cited.

Most places, that would never happen.

Availablility of mold coverage depends on what kind of insurance it is, and

where it is. Since there's no federal law on that, the states act (or do

nothing) independently. The Gulf states, the property owners, AND the insurance

companies are in the process right now of finding out what happens when you

ignore a problem this large. It's sad, because an awful lot of people got

blindsided here. They really had no clue. Those who did know chose to do the

dumb thing and think about price instead of cost. Hard to imagine insurance

companies being that short-sighted, considering they hire cadres of people who

don't do anything all day but calc out risks and costs, but they are. Now

everybody pays. Buildings, you can tear down and put up again. People aren't

always that easy..

LiveSimply <quackadillian@...> wrote:

I thought that most insurance policies disqualified mold claims now..

I think that *whoever is actually responsible* should pay..

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