RE: Re: New arrival to Oregon

[Guest guest]

To me, his statement with it's 'principled' adjective seemed to indicate arrogance on his part or a vague insult to those with whom he is attempting to relate .... I shared those thoughts with him. We exchanged several postings and all seemed polite and without rancor - he needs your style of office more than mine, . At the risk of making a (nonintendended) judgement, mostly he seemed not yet ready for the types of discussions we have here. I remember what a toad I was at that 'age'.

Sunny

Sunny Kierstyn, RN DC Fibromyalgia Care Center of Oregon 2677 Willakenzie Road, 7C

Eugene, Oregon, 97401

541- 344- 0509; Fx; 541- 344- 0955

From: "spbkchiro97132" <spbkchiro@...> Subject: Re: New arrival to OregonDate: Mon, 21 Aug 2006 19:27:35 -0000Sharon: Perhaps, he did not like the looks of your question or thislist-serve in general because he recently unsubscribed. Oh well....Ican't tell you what his definition is but, this term liberally usedthroughout a minority of the profession and generally understood asmeaning more subluxation-centered/based and/or vitalistic as opposedto musculo-skeletal-condition-centered and/or symptom-centeredand/or mechanistic et. al. here is a link to a website with adefinition:http://www.principledchiropractictraining.net/I understand why these docs want to differentiate themselves(because I pretty much feel that I am one of them) but I personallythink it is a lousy and vague term because in reality everyonehas "principles" or 'premises' including ALL chiropractors, even IMEdocs have "priciples". The problem is that most people (includingmost chiros), operate with a mixed set of poorly-thought-out,contradictory, vague, inherited, incongruent, non-realisticprinciples and premises of which they are only partially-consciousof. This is why the health of the world is in the mess it is in:people's "principles" re. health are a mess of contradictions. Randwas a great teacher of the following concept: 1-Incongruent/non-realistic philososphies lead to chaos and poverty. 2-Congruent andrealistic philosophies lead to prosperity and order. It all comesfrom your belief system. The good news is that lousyphilosophies/beliefs/premises are 100% changeable!And, we should be forever working on improving our "principles" andthose of our patients.I have really been hammering education and philosophy at our officelately. I am actually teaching four different classes (one on eachSaturday of the month). My aim is to change peoples' beliefs and getthem more in alignment with reality and give them somecongruent/realistic "principles" to operate from. It is actaully abit of work, but it creates more self-reliance, more common-sense,less "emergency" chiropractic care, more compliance and thereforebetter results. Also, I don't get as caught up during eachindividual visit trying to teach concepts that require more time.If any of you folks are interested, please come by and check out oneor more of these classes. You might pick up some ideas on how tochange peoples' paradigm. You can check out the calendar on mywebsite at www.springbrookclinic.com >> I would be curious to know your definition of a 'principled'> Chiropractor.>> sharron fuchs dc>> ________________________________>> From: [mailto: ]On> Behalf Of drross24> Sent: Wednesday, August 16, 2006 11:26 PM> > Subject: New arrival to Oregon>>>> I recently arrived to Oregon from working in Europe for the pastfew> years and I'm seeking an associate or shared space position with a> "principled" chiropractor in Oregon. Fully licensed in the US.Please> respond via email.>OregonDCs rules:1. Keep correspondence professional; the purpose of the listserve is to foster communication and collegiality. No personal attacks on listserve members will be tolerated.2. Always sign your e-mails with your first and last name.3. The listserve is not secure; your e-mail could end up anywhere. However, it is against the rules of the listserve to copy, print, forward, or otherwise distribute correspondence written by another member without his or her consent, unless all personal identifiers have been removed.

[Guest guest]

Hello OR DCs,

It is interesting to me that DCs of all

stripes seem to feel the need to differentiate themselves from “the other”

chiropractors. In my day, it was “straights” versus “mixers”

or “broad scope.” Despite graduating from WSCC, the sine qua

non of “broad scope,” I fell in with ICA

types (OCA was the local Oregon

straight group) and practiced “hands only” full-spine chiropractic.

Never had a lick of a “therapy” in the clinic until we

proctored a NWCC grad who talked us into an IFC machine. Never did get

much out of it and it sat in the hall gathering dust. In the day however

the straightest “straights” never touched anything below C2, doing

so made ‘em too “broad scope” apparently. So I guess I

was a broad scope straight.

So now it’s “principled”

chiropractor (versus an “unprincipled” one I suppose) instead of “straight.”

On the other side of the fence are the “rational” DCs (as

opposed to “irrational”?) and “evidence-based” (as

opposed to “faith-based”?) chiropractors. Sheesh! I

never, in 25 years of practice, ever had a patient ask me about my

philosophical leaning. I did go to the Easy and Guy show once and came

away all charged up with the “power of chiropractic.” I laid

it on the first new patient I saw. His only question after all my

rambling about “above-down, inside-out” was, “Yeah, Doc, but

can you help me?”

Maybe it’s age. (I’d

hope it is some wisdom, but I’m not even counting on that.) Philosophy

is fine. Chiropractic “philosophy” however is pretty much an “in-house”

disagreement among DCs about how the world works. As far as I can tell,

nobody has a corner on that market, including DD, BJ, Sid, Terry, , Jay, the

ACA, ICA, WSCC

or anyone else. To carve chiropractic up into different camps based on

equally tenuous non-verifiable “philosophies” is a shame. We

are all chiropractors who can and do help people with all sorts of problems. We

have the respect of most of our patients. We have increasingly the

respect of rest of the medical community and a growing presence in the

scientific understanding of what can happen when the spine, peripheral joints

and nervous system go haywire. And, best of all, we have a unique

approach to doing something about it. We should celebrate!

A. Simpson, DC

From:

[mailto: ] On Behalf Of sunny Kierstyn

Sent: Monday, August 21, 2006

12:46 PM

spbkchiro@...;

Subject: RE: Re: New

arrival to Oregon

To me,

his statement with it's 'principled' adjective seemed to indicate arrogance on

his part or a vague insult to those with whom he is attempting to relate .... I

shared those thoughts with him. We exchanged several postings and all

seemed polite and without rancor - he needs your style of office more than

mine, . At the risk of making a (nonintendended)

judgement, mostly he seemed not yet ready for the types

of discussions we have here. I remember what a toad I was at that

'age'.

Sunny

Sunny

Kierstyn, RN DC

Fibromyalgia Care

Center of Oregon

2677 Willakenzie Road, 7C

Eugene, Oregon,

97401

541- 344-

0509; Fx; 541- 344- 0955

From: " spbkchiro97132 " <spbkchiro@...>

Subject: Re: New arrival to Oregon

Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2006 19:27:35 -0000

Sharon:

Perhaps, he did not like the looks of your question or this

list-serve in general because he recently unsubscribed. Oh well....I

can't tell you what his definition is but, this term liberally used

throughout a minority of the profession and generally understood as

meaning more subluxation-centered/based and/or vitalistic as opposed

to musculo-skeletal-condition-centered and/or symptom-centered

and/or mechanistic et. al. here is a link to a website with a

definition:

http://www.principledchiropractictraining.net/

I understand why these docs want to differentiate themselves

(because I pretty much feel that I am one of them) but I personally

think it is a lousy and vague term because in reality everyone

has " principles " or 'premises' including ALL chiropractors, even IME

docs have " priciples " . The problem is that most people (including

most chiros), operate with a mixed set of poorly-thought-out,

contradictory, vague, inherited, incongruent, non-realistic

principles and premises of which they are only partially-conscious

of. This is why the health of the world is in the mess it is in:

people's " principles " re. health are a mess of contradictions. Rand

was a great teacher of the following concept: 1-Incongruent/non-

realistic philososphies lead to chaos and poverty. 2-Congruent and

realistic philosophies lead to prosperity and order. It all comes

from your belief system. The good news is that lousy

philosophies/beliefs/premises are 100% changeable!

And, we should be forever working on improving our " principles " and

those of our patients.

I have really been hammering education and philosophy at our office

lately. I am actually teaching four different classes (one on each

Saturday of the month). My aim is to change peoples' beliefs and get

them more in alignment with reality and give them some

congruent/realistic " principles " to operate from. It is actaully a

bit of work, but it creates more self-reliance, more common-sense,

less " emergency " chiropractic care, more compliance and therefore

better results. Also, I don't get as caught up during each

individual visit trying to teach concepts that require more time.

If any of you folks are interested, please come by and check out one

or more of these classes. You might pick up some ideas on how to

change peoples' paradigm. You can check out the calendar on my

website at www.springbrookclinic.com

>

> I would be curious to know your definition of a 'principled'

> Chiropractor.

>

> sharron fuchs dc

>

> ________________________________

>

> From: [mailto: ]

On

> Behalf Of drross24

> Sent: Wednesday, August 16, 2006 11:26 PM

>

> Subject: New arrival to Oregon

>

>

>

> I recently arrived to Oregon from working

in Europe for the past

few

> years and I'm seeking an associate or shared space position with a

> " principled " chiropractor in Oregon. Fully licensed in the US.

Please

> respond via email.

>

OregonDCs rules:

1. Keep correspondence professional; the purpose of the listserve is to foster

communication and collegiality. No personal attacks on listserve members will

be tolerated.

2. Always sign your e-mails with your first and last name.

3. The listserve is not secure; your e-mail could end up anywhere. However, it

is against the rules of the listserve to copy, print, forward, or otherwise

distribute correspondence written by another member without his or her consent,

unless all personal identifiers have been removed.

[Guest guest]

"We are all chiropractors who can and do help people with all sorts of problems. We have the respect of most of our patients. We have increasingly the respect of rest of the medical community and a growing presence in the scientific understanding of what can happen when the spine, peripheral joints and nervous system go haywire. And, best of all, we have a unique approach to doing something about it. We should celebrate!"

Sounds pretty "principled" to me!!

Dr. ph Medlin D.C.Spine Tree Chiropractic1627 NE Alberta St. #6Portland, OR 97211Ph: 503-788-6800c: 503-889-6204

New arrival to Oregon>>>> I recently arrived to Oregon from working in Europe for the pastfew> years and I'm seeking an associate or shared space position with a> "principled" chiropractor in Oregon. Fully licensed in the US.Please> respond via email.>OregonDCs rules:1. Keep correspondence professional; the purpose of the listserve is to foster communication and collegiality. No personal attacks on listserve members will be tolerated.2. Always sign your e-mails with your first and last name.3. The listserve is not secure; your e-mail could end up anywhere. However, it is against the rules of the listserve to copy, print, forward, or otherwise distribute correspondence written by another member without his or her consent, unless all personal identifiers have been removed.

[Guest guest]

Well you know me by now, I just had to ask the question and if asking for an answer drove him away from the listserve then so be it.

sharron fuchs dc

From: [mailto: ] On Behalf Of spbkchiro97132Sent: Monday, August 21, 2006 12:28 PM Subject: Re: New arrival to Oregon

Sharon: Perhaps, he did not like the looks of your question or this list-serve in general because he recently unsubscribed. Oh well....I can't tell you what his definition is but, this term liberally used throughout a minority of the profession and generally understood as meaning more subluxation-centered/based and/or vitalistic as opposed to musculo-skeletal-condition-centered and/or symptom-centered and/or mechanistic et. al. here is a link to a website with a definition: http://www.principledchiropractictraining.net/I understand why these docs want to differentiate themselves (because I pretty much feel that I am one of them) but I personally think it is a lousy and vague term because in reality everyone has "principles" or 'premises' including ALL chiropractors, even IME docs have "priciples". The problem is that most people (including most chiros), operate with a mixed set of poorly-thought-out, contradictory, vague, inherited, incongruent, non-realistic principles and premises of which they are only partially-conscious of. This is why the health of the world is in the mess it is in: people's "principles" re. health are a mess of contradictions. Rand was a great teacher of the following concept: 1-Incongruent/non-realistic philososphies lead to chaos and poverty. 2-Congruent and realistic philosophies lead to prosperity and order. It all comes from your belief system. The good news is that lousy philosophies/beliefs/premises are 100% changeable! And, we should be forever working on improving our "principles" and those of our patients.I have really been hammering education and philosophy at our office lately. I am actually teaching four different classes (one on each Saturday of the month). My aim is to change peoples' beliefs and get them more in alignment with reality and give them some congruent/realistic "principles" to operate from. It is actaully a bit of work, but it creates more self-reliance, more common-sense, less "emergency" chiropractic care, more compliance and therefore better results. Also, I don't get as caught up during each individual visit trying to teach concepts that require more time.If any of you folks are interested, please come by and check out one or more of these classes. You might pick up some ideas on how to change peoples' paradigm. You can check out the calendar on my website at www.springbrookclinic.com >> I would be curious to know your definition of a 'principled'> Chiropractor.> > sharron fuchs dc> > ________________________________> > From: [mailto: ] On> Behalf Of drross24> Sent: Wednesday, August 16, 2006 11:26 PM> > Subject: New arrival to Oregon> > > > I recently arrived to Oregon from working in Europe for the past few> years and I'm seeking an associate or shared space position with a> "principled" chiropractor in Oregon. Fully licensed in the US. Please> respond via email.>

[Guest guest]

Hazzah! Well said!

Sunny

Sunny Kierstyn, RN DC Fibromyalgia Care Center of Oregon 2677 Willakenzie Road, 7C

Eugene, Oregon, 97401

541- 344- 0509; Fx; 541- 344- 0955

From: "Chuck Simpson, DC" <csimpson@...>"sunny Kierstyn" <skrndc1@...>,<spbkchiro@...>,< >Subject: RE: Re: New arrival to OregonDate: Mon, 21 Aug 2006 13:38:54 -0700

Hello OR DCs,

It is interesting to me that DCs of all stripes seem to feel the need to differentiate themselves from “the other” chiropractors. In my day, it was “straights” versus “mixers” or “broad scope.” Despite graduating from WSCC, the sine qua non of “broad scope,” I fell in with ICA types (OCA was the local Oregon straight group) and practiced “hands only” full-spine chiropractic. Never had a lick of a “therapy” in the clinic until we proctored a NWCC grad who talked us into an IFC machine. Never did get much out of it and it sat in the hall gathering dust. In the day however the straightest “straights” never touched anything below C2, doing so made ‘em too “broad scope” apparently. So I guess I was a broad scope straight.

So now it’s “principled” chiropractor (versus an “unprincipled” one I suppose) instead of “straight.” On the other side of the fence are the “rational” DCs (as opposed to “irrational”?) and “evidence-based” (as opposed to “faith-based”?) chiropractors. Sheesh! I never, in 25 years of practice, ever had a patient ask me about my philosophical leaning. I did go to the Easy and Guy show once and came away all charged up with the “power of chiropractic.” I laid it on the first new patient I saw. His only question after all my rambling about “above-down, inside-out” was, “Yeah, Doc, but can you help me?”

Maybe it’s age. (I’d hope it is some wisdom, but I’m not even counting on that.) Philosophy is fine. Chiropractic “philosophy” however is pretty much an “in-house” disagreement among DCs about how the world works. As far as I can tell, nobody has a corner on that market, including DD, BJ, Sid, Terry, , Jay, the ACA, ICA, WSCC or anyone else. To carve chiropractic up into different camps based on equally tenuous non-verifiable “philosophies” is a shame. We are all chiropractors who can and do help people with all sorts of problems. We have the respect of most of our patients. We have increasingly the respect of rest of the medical community and a growing presence in the scientific understanding of what can happen when the spine, peripheral joints and nervous system go haywire. And, best of all, we have a unique approach to doing something about it. We should celebrate!

A. Simpson, DC

From: [mailto: ] On Behalf Of sunny KierstynSent: Monday, August 21, 2006 12:46 PMspbkchiro@...; Subject: RE: Re: New arrival to Oregon

To me, his statement with it's 'principled' adjective seemed to indicate arrogance on his part or a vague insult to those with whom he is attempting to relate .... I shared those thoughts with him. We exchanged several postings and all seemed polite and without rancor - he needs your style of office more than mine, . At the risk of making a (nonintendended) judgement, mostly he seemed not yet ready for the types of discussions we have here. I remember what a toad I was at that 'age'.

Sunny

Sunny Kierstyn, RN DC Fibromyalgia Care Center of Oregon 2677 Willakenzie Road, 7C

Eugene, Oregon, 97401

541- 344- 0509; Fx; 541- 344- 0955

From: "spbkchiro97132" <spbkchiro@...> Subject: Re: New arrival to OregonDate: Mon, 21 Aug 2006 19:27:35 -0000Sharon: Perhaps, he did not like the looks of your question or thislist-serve in general because he recently unsubscribed. Oh well....Ican't tell you what his definition is but, this term liberally usedthroughout a minority of the profession and generally understood asmeaning more subluxation-centered/based and/or vitalistic as opposedto musculo-skeletal-condition-centered and/or symptom-centeredand/or mechanistic et. al. here is a link to a website with adefinition:http://www.principledchiropractictraining.net/I understand why these docs want to differentiate themselves(because I pretty much feel that I am one of them) but I personallythink it is a lousy and vague term because in reality everyonehas "principles" or 'premises' including ALL chiropractors, even IMEdocs have "priciples". The problem is that most people (includingmost chiros), operate with a mixed set of poorly-thought-out,contradictory, vague, inherited, incongruent, non-realisticprinciples and premises of which they are only partially-consciousof. This is why the health of the world is in the mess it is in:people's "principles" re. health are a mess of contradictions. Randwas a great teacher of the following concept: 1-Incongruent/non-realistic philososphies lead to chaos and poverty. 2-Congruent andrealistic philosophies lead to prosperity and order. It all comesfrom your belief system. The good news is that lousyphilosophies/beliefs/premises are 100% changeable!And, we should be forever working on improving our "principles" andthose of our patients.I have really been hammering education and philosophy at our officelately. I am actually teaching four different classes (one on eachSaturday of the month). My aim is to change peoples' beliefs and getthem more in alignment with reality and give them somecongruent/realistic "principles" to operate from. It is actaully abit of work, but it creates more self-reliance, more common-sense,less "emergency" chiropractic care, more compliance and thereforebetter results. Also, I don't get as caught up during eachindividual visit trying to teach concepts that require more time.If any of you folks are interested, please come by and check out oneor more of these classes. You might pick up some ideas on how tochange peoples' paradigm. You can check out the calendar on mywebsite at www.springbrookclinic.com >> I would be curious to know your definition of a 'principled'> Chiropractor.>> sharron fuchs dc>> ________________________________>> From: [mailto: ]On> Behalf Of drross24> Sent: Wednesday, August 16, 2006 11:26 PM> > Subject: New arrival to Oregon>>>> I recently arrived to Oregon from working in Europe for the pastfew> years and I'm seeking an associate or shared space position with a> "principled" chiropractor in Oregon. Fully licensed in the US.Please> respond via email.>OregonDCs rules:1. Keep correspondence professional; the purpose of the listserve is to foster communication and collegiality. No personal attacks on listserve members will be tolerated.2. Always sign your e-mails with your first and last name.3. The listserve is not secure; your e-mail could end up anywhere. However, it is against the rules of the listserve to copy, print, forward, or otherwise distribute correspondence written by another member without his or her consent, unless all personal identifiers have been removed.

[Guest guest]

Chuck,

Thank you!

Christian Mathisen DC

3650 S Pacific Hwy

Medford, OR

cmathdc@...

New arrival to Oregon>>>> I recently arrived to Oregon from working in Europe for the pastfew> years and I'm seeking an associate or shared space position with a> "principled" chiropractor in Oregon. Fully licensed in the US.Please> respond via email.>OregonDCs rules:1. Keep correspondence professional; the purpose of the listserve is to foster communication and collegiality. No personal attacks on listserve members will be tolerated.2. Always sign your e-mails with your first and last name.3. The listserve is not secure; your e-mail could end up anywhere. However, it is against the rules of the listserve to copy, print, forward, or otherwise distribute correspondence written by another member without his or her consent, unless all personal identifiers have been removed.